Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[Madaussie]

A point about "differences" and "conflicting evidence" vis a vis the Norfolk coroner's report.

Let's say the Thai report states that DNA sample A belongs to individual X and DNA sample B belongs to individual Y.

Norfolk coroner finds that DNA sample A belonged to individual Y and DNA sample B belongs to individual X.

This would be conflicting.

However, if the Norfolk coroner finds that neither DNA sample A nor B belongs to either individuals, that would be a "difference" in findings. So I'm tempted to believe that there were semen samples found in which the DNA does not match either of the two accused

Coroner doesn't have the Thai DNA results. She only has the RTP pathologist report on the cause of death and injurys. Did not receive this until sometime this year. At the January adjournment she still was NOT in possession of the reports from Thailand. Subsequently she has read the report and there is significant Differences in there's and her findings that relate to the injury's suffered. That's it in a nutshell.

[yellowboat]

So they should walk I would guess

Why should they? If the prosecution was using a DNA match between the two defendants and the murder weapon yes they should. But that's not what they are basing their case on, the DNA results could be from any other person that handled the hoe before or after the murders.

One set of DNA is almost certainly from the beach cleaner/gardener. It is highly probable that the other is from the assailant who smashed Hannah's head in. It is clutching at straws to suggest otherwise.

At any rate, it appears the "perfect investigation" using a magnifying glass to check for DNA, was not quite as effective as real forensic analysis.

I just stated the obvious, this is not positive proof of the innocence of the two Burmese; clutching at straws is, IMO, declaring that the case is over based on DNA results from a source that has been known to be contaminated since day one.

Once again, the case was not built upon a DNA match between the hoe and the defendants.

What is the case built on, a forced confession ? With the absents of proof, one can only believe they are no more guilty than the next person. Feel sorry for those kids and their families, I never thought those two Burmese kids were guilty of anything other than being scared.

[JLCrab]

ORDER IN THE HOUSE PLEASE FELLOW MEMBERS..

You all seem to have missed one of the most important turning points of this case today.

I quote:

"During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration"

What has happened today is the defence has provided significant evidence to the court without Public disclosure. Such is the gravity of the information that Norfolk Coroner Jacqueline Lake decided it was her duty to allow this information to be provided to the court. Its been washed over and no real weight given in this thread but it is significant.

Andy Hall told us he had "Fantastic" information from the UK. Is this what he was referring to and how could the Coroner provide evidence that is significantly different.

What could that mean?

We know the victim is deceased so no conflicting story's there.

She couldn't have ascertained the time of death so no difference there either.

We know the victim is the person on her passport so no difference there.

It wouldn't relate to her blood samples I doubt as that's not an issue if she had drink or drugs inside her.

No she has released the report for consideration by the Thai Court because she has found a significant discrepancy in the Thai pathologist report.

What does that tell us?? well I suggest the cause of Death could be one of the Main differences she could have found.

Was Hannah Witheridge Shot?? Its been rumoured she had.

Ref: http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Ask yourselves Ladies and Gentlemen and anyone in-between as I am a fully inclusive person, why has a UK Coroner decided to send her report to Thailand in rebuttal of the Thai Police Pathologist report.

Its different... It has conflicting findings... What are they... ??? I would love to know.

Differences in the reports and conflicting findings are not the same thing, the families of the victims would certainly be aware of the results of the coroner inquest and if it had uncover something like a gunshot or a anything that conclusively disproves the case against the two Burmese they wouldn't have said things like the two defendants having a difficult case to answer for.

The defense has made it very clear that they want the case to be judged in the "Court of public opinion", and never been shy about parading whatever findings they could use to undermine the prosecution case, so I wouldn't put my hopes up for any earth shattering revelations on that report.

Oh Mr AleG..

I am happy to debate this with you.

" It has conflicting findings" is my words

"significant differences" is the reported words.... however they mean one and the same to me.

Your understanding of the English language is perhaps somewhat limited so I will make allowances however your understanding of English coroners procedure falls far short for you to be able to make these comments.

And let me explain why.

The Coroner works independently of the FCO and the police. They do not report to the familys or seek permission when they make decisions on what evidence they will provide to another jurisdiction.

The Inquest has not even taken place just preliminary hearings to arrange adjournments. The family will be invited to attend the hearing later on in the year.

There is NO link between the familys statements and the coroner. None what so ever. The family statements are linked to the MPS and the FCO who have not supplied ANY information to the court. In fact last December a report went out on how the thought their was inconsistences in the case and this has been proven many times by other posters.

I find your attitude and some what hopefulness somewhat strange in the way you seem to desire them to be found guilty come what ever. Even if there is evidence?.

The UK coroner hasn't sent her findings to the court just to upset the Thai Pathologist she has done it because she believes in Natural Justice. She has information she knows will help the B2 prove their innocence. Because the UK inquest hasn't taken place it may be the case that she has asked for non disclosure prior to her case hearing in order to protect the family's back in the UK. Whatever it is she has felt the need to inform the court of evidence that will make sure justice is served in this case.

Your Party's nearly over my friend. Justice could well be seen to be served up here.

And remember this the UK coroner doesn't have the B2 DNA profiles either does she. So her revelations are possibly something else so important she has had to disclose it.

Fantastic response to Mr. AleG - let's see him riggle out of that one!

From nested quote above: "The Coroner works independently of the FCO and the police. They do not report to the familys or seek permission when they make decisions on what evidence they will provide to another jurisdiction."

From the MOU MURDER, MANSLAUGHTER AND INFANTICIDE OF BRITISH NATIONALS

ABROAD

Following discussions with stakeholder groups and partners across

Government, and UK agencies, it is clear that a Memorandum of

Understanding (MoU) would ensure that a minimum standard of

assistance is provided by UK authorities and would help to clarify the role

of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), UK Police and Coroners

Society of England and Wales in respect of both the deceased and their

family when a British national dies overseas as a result of murder,

manslaughter or lnfantlclde.

This MoU is not, nor could it ever be, a legally enforceable document.

However, signatories to this MoU accept the principles, roles and

standards described within and agree to shared efforts to respond to the

murder, manslaughter or infanticide of a British national abroad.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

[Madaussie]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

[spidermike007]

snip

Whether the RTP would re-open the investigation is moot, however I can bet my house that the DNA trail will prove to be lost, mislaid, cremated, or would be identified as the gardener and ANO who won't be connected to the Headman's family, and has left Thailand anyway. A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out.

" A waste of time even suggesting that the RTP carry this out."

May be you are right unfortunately.

BUT IT IS THEIR DARN DUTY TO DO THIS

And like I said, even if they could be cajoled into carrying out their duty, could anyone trust them to find the right suspects, or even want to? I wouldn't.

Not when hi-so 'recipients' may be involved........

There are no hi-so recipients involved. The perpetrators family is elite, but definitely not hi-so. Big difference. Elite means you have over $40 million US. No social status other than alot of cash. Mon is lo-so. Super lo-so. As is Numnuts (Nomsod). No class, no breeding, no education, no elegance, no finesse, no distinction. No place in society, other than that which hundreds of millions of dollars of ill gotten cash buys you. This means you are above the law. It does not mean you are hi-so. Huge difference.

[aslimversgwm]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Now that the defence is starting to unravel the prosecution's case (and there are more expert witnesses yet to testify) I am more optimistic that the judges will reason that the prosecution has not proven their case beyond reasonable doubt. That is a diplomatic way of stating it's so full of holes as to be ludicrous. Thus they could use this reasoning to pronounce the B2 not guilty of rape and murder, and possibly also dismiss the minor charges.

What is beneficial to the defence is that there are three judges who will probably find a common ground to agree upon, so it's less likely to be a whitewash.

I am also faintly hopeful that this will also be the outcome - let's hope and pray that this is the case for the sake of those poor boys and the victim's families, who must also be very concerned that justice isn't going to be done.

[Madaussie]

Differences in the reports and conflicting findings are not the same thing, the families of the victims would certainly be aware of the results of the coroner inquest and if it had uncover something like a gunshot or a anything that conclusively disproves the case against the two Burmese they wouldn't have said things like the two defendants having a difficult case to answer for.

The defense has made it very clear that they want the case to be judged in the "Court of public opinion", and never been shy about parading whatever findings they could use to undermine the prosecution case, so I wouldn't put my hopes up for any earth shattering revelations on that report.

Oh Mr AleG..

I am happy to debate this with you.

" It has conflicting findings" is my words

"significant differences" is the reported words.... however they mean one and the same to me.

Your understanding of the English language is perhaps somewhat limited so I will make allowances however your understanding of English coroners procedure falls far short for you to be able to make these comments.

And let me explain why.

The Coroner works independently of the FCO and the police. They do not report to the familys or seek permission when they make decisions on what evidence they will provide to another jurisdiction.

The Inquest has not even taken place just preliminary hearings to arrange adjournments. The family will be invited to attend the hearing later on in the year.

There is NO link between the familys statements and the coroner. None what so ever. The family statements are linked to the MPS and the FCO who have not supplied ANY information to the court. In fact last December a report went out on how the thought their was inconsistences in the case and this has been proven many times by other posters.

I find your attitude and some what hopefulness somewhat strange in the way you seem to desire them to be found guilty come what ever. Even if there is evidence?.

The UK coroner hasn't sent her findings to the court just to upset the Thai Pathologist she has done it because she believes in Natural Justice. She has information she knows will help the B2 prove their innocence. Because the UK inquest hasn't taken place it may be the case that she has asked for non disclosure prior to her case hearing in order to protect the family's back in the UK. Whatever it is she has felt the need to inform the court of evidence that will make sure justice is served in this case.

Your Party's nearly over my friend. Justice could well be seen to be served up here.

And remember this the UK coroner doesn't have the B2 DNA profiles either does she. So her revelations are possibly something else so important she has had to disclose it.

Fantastic response to Mr. AleG - let's see him riggle out of that one!

From nested quote above: "The Coroner works independently of the FCO and the police. They do not report to the familys or seek permission when they make decisions on what evidence they will provide to another jurisdiction."

From the MOU MURDER, MANSLAUGHTER AND INFANTICIDE OF BRITISH NATIONALS

ABROAD

Following discussions with stakeholder groups and partners across

Government, and UK agencies, it is clear that a Memorandum of

Understanding (MoU) would ensure that a minimum standard of

assistance is provided by UK authorities and would help to clarify the role

of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), UK Police and Coroners

Society of England and Wales in respect of both the deceased and their

family when a British national dies overseas as a result of murder,

manslaughter or lnfantlclde.

This MoU is not, nor could it ever be, a legally enforceable document.

However, signatories to this MoU accept the principles, roles and

standards described within and agree to shared efforts to respond to the

murder, manslaughter or infanticide of a British national abroad.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/141958/mou-fco-acpo-coroners.pdf

And your point is??

[balo]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

[Gweiloman]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

I would venture that the coroner's report states that the wounds on David are caused by a push knife / shark ring type weapon. Impossible to inflict such wounds with a hoe. Only the ridiculously blinded would buy that story

[stephenterry]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

If the case is to be reopened it would be sensible to revisit Panya findings that connected Nomsod to the crime scene. Go from there.

[Darkknight666]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

You know, I hadn't even thought of the coroner having David's report as well... Completely didn't even think of it, Thank you. That makes it a double-whammy for the prosecution because for sure, David's report will blow the RTP's theory both victims were killed with the hoe out of the water in court. The evidence against the accused is all but sunk as it is and conflicting pathology reports are another major issue for the court moving forward. Unbelievable, it's all that keep springing to mind. Like some kind of old Twilight Zone story.

[KunMatt]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

I really don't understand your obsession with Nomsod or why you are always trying to clear his name.

Nearly all of us didn't know Nomsod, Mon or the B2 before the case so how can you think that there is a witch hunt against Nomsod? It would make no difference to any of us if Nomsod was found guilty or the B2, the while point is we are unbiased because of this which means we truly want the real killers to be convicted based on the evidence and justice to be done.

As far as I am concerned he is still the prime suspect because the CCTV evidence the former police chief said definitely implicated him and Mon and made them the prime suspectsin the case soon after the murders has never been explained or resolved. So it must still exist and it must still incriminate Nomsod and Mon. The fact that Nomsod only has a sketchy alibi several hours after the crime and no alibi for any of the time before or during the crime is also very suspicious and does not excuse him from being the prime suspect.

Why you are trying to wish it all away and exonerate people who you don't know is beyond me. I don't think you have any connection to him and you know everything about the case, so why do you always defend him and his family??

[boomerangutang]

I believe the CCTV in Bangkok is genuine. But it proves nothing other than that the individual in question was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was in his room from the previous midnight. Videos of him entering his apartment would have been conclusive but does that exist????

Right, and what I've asked about for months. The alibi video for Nomsod had a timestamp of 9:30 am. There is no footage of him entering the same lobby (did he come in through a window?). If there is CCTV of him entering anytime in the 20 or so hours before 8 am, then he's probably clear. However, the crime wrapped up at 5 am at the latest, and it's been shown that there were several flights to Bkk from the island region on that Monday morning - which could get him to Bkk in plenty of time for that 9:30 CCTV footage. In sum, the footage is moot. What's more important is video of small boats leaving the island just after the crime (RTP says they're so unimportant, they didn't even bother to look at them. But does that footage still exist?!?! Probably not.), ....and CCTV of passengers boarding and exiting the planes to Bkk on that Monday morning. Will we (seeker of truth and justice) ever see the airplane videos? No, of course not. Mon and/or RTP made sure of that.

[Gweiloman]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

I really don't understand your obsession with Nomsod or why you are always trying to clear his name.

Nearly all of us didn't know Nomsod, Mon or the B2 before the case so how can you think that there is a witch hunt against Nomsod? It would make no difference to any of us if Nomsod was found guilty or the B2, the while point is we are unbiased because of this which means we truly want the real killers to be convicted based on the evidence and justice to be done.

As far as I am concerned he is still the prime suspect because the CCTV evidence the former police chief said definitely implicated him and Mon and made them the prime suspectsin the case soon after the murders has never been explained or resolved. So it must still exist and it must still incriminate Nomsod and Mon. The fact that Nomsod only has a sketchy alibi several hours after the crime and no alibi for any of the time before or during the crime is also very suspicious and does not excuse him from being the prime suspect.

Why you are trying to wish it all away and exonerate people who you don't know is beyond me. I don't think you have any connection to him and you know everything about the case, so why do you always defend him and his family??

We do not know if NS has an alibi or not. He has produced some sort of alibi which is inconclusive. For all we know, there could be ten or more friends testifying that he was with them in RCA or whatever but as he was never on trial, producing these witnesses were unnecessary.

[balo]

Interested in your thoughts on the last few revelations Balo, as you have been a fairly firm fence sitter to date. Any surprises, have you felt moved either way?

Regards,

Ryk.

I'm following the trial with interest , and I am happy for any factual news that will come out of the court room. I am just an observer like anyone else and if B2 are innocent then a lot of work needs to be done to catch the real killers.

You are the experts in here so much better for me to shut my mouth actually.

[mcm991]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

Balo, you have been the biggest defender of Nonsod since day 1.

I called you on it almost a year ago and if you look at your many posts over the last 11 months, it stands out like a bad rash.

Everytime anyone mentions his name in connection to this crime .... you leap to his defense. You've done it I'm guessing about 100 times now.

Even now, as it seems clear that the B2 were stitched up, you are looking for all the other suspects you can find to shield the boy.

I asked you way back then and I'll ask you again ...... is he a close friend of yours or do you have a vested interest in defending him? You posted before that you know him .... but it may help everyone here if you explain your relationship with him or his family.

It is forgivable to defend your mates but you need to state your interest to be clear.

[boomerangutang]

Frankly, I doubt the PM is involved. Certainly the local police, and the state police are involved in a massive cover up. I think it is the lack of involvement of the PM, that is more worrisome, especially in the current climate of "moving the nation forward".

The PM is involved, at least peripherally. He got himself involved early on by making several public statements in full support of the RTP investigation. He could distance himself from the cover-up by backtracking a bit, but that would infer his buddies purposefully skewed evidence. Plus, it would put more spotlight on the case, and top brass are all hoping the general public will lose interest, and the whole thing will fade away. It won't.

[stephenterry]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

I would venture that the coroner's report states that the wounds on David are caused by a push knife / shark ring type weapon. Impossible to inflict such wounds with a hoe. Only the ridiculously blinded would buy that story

IT'S also possible that deep stab wounds were found on David possibly caused by a knife. And that there were multiple wounds that would be inconsistent with the hoe assertions. Perhaps also defensive wounds to his hands and arms. In other words several attackers which would rebut the rtp scenario. Enough to show reasonable doubt.

[Darkknight666]

I see there is still a lot of focus on Nomsod in this case and thats fine by me, I already stated my opinion and do not expect any likes.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

Oh, I'll help with this one.

You see, If police find and charge one of the actual assailants with evidence they know does them in... That person will have little choice but to confess and get a lighter sentence. I think it's possible Ekkachai was on the beach that night... But there is no video with a glaring similarity to him available. Chances are the "elite" person would give up his henchmen rather easily when staring down a long prison term. There's isn't as much speculation here on the others likely involved because there is only two men who were accused by Panya Mamen, who said he had direct evidence tying them to the crime/scene. That's why you hear a lot about Warot (NS)..... Because he was an initial suspect and the evidence he has given to clear himself has all been either not verified or not investigated by the current investigators. It's seems to bother you, Balo that Warot keeps coming up in this crime, Does it? Why?

If the coroners report shows David was killed with a different weapon than Hannah, what are your thoughts? Who's DNA (two males) was on the hoe that the defense found? Why haven't prosecutors turned over their star piece of evidence, evidence you believe proves the B2's guilt? You're showing that you're my on the fence anymore here, haven't been for some time. You do try valiantly to appear objective... But it's just that, an appearance.

[balo]

to the last poster mcm:

not true, I know the university he went to from a few years back through friends, but I do not know him personally .

And I still believe to this day the CCTV footage are genuine and not faked.

But I understand there is a timeframe that NS could have travelled to the island, but I do not believe in that theory . And thats just my personal opinion.

[boomerangutang]

Worthwhile repeating this news extract, as it is verifiable evidence that differs significantly from that of the Thai pathologist's report.

During the hearing it was disclosed that Norfolk Coroner’s court had carried out its own autopsy on the body of Ms Witheridge, after it was returned to the UK, and there were significant differences noted between that report and the report compiled by the Thai pathologist.

The exact details of what is in the Norfolk coroner’s report were not disclosed in court, but it was handed to the three judges for their consideration.

“I want to show up every mistake one at a time,” said Mr Chomphuchat (defence lawyer). “I want to let the judges see everything and judge it well.”

----------------------------------------------------

One poster mentioned it could be a set of DNA found under fingernails, and considering Hannah had a blond hair clutched in her hand, this is plausible. However, it doesn't answer the question of what was different because the Norfolk coroner wouldn't have any suspects DNA to compare with. It could be a non-asian DNA, though.

It could be possible that the cause of death (the simplest explanation provided by the Norwich coroner) differed significantly. Speculation by the Sunday Times suggested that gunshot residue was found. Or perhaps knife wounds as well as the alleged hoe.

There could be more, because she used the plural word 'differences' and not the singular 'significant difference'. I could speculate that Hannah was NOT raped, as alleged to date, although I think that unlikely. There must be more, maybe drug chemicals in her bloodstream? That is plausible.

In her words, natural justice for the accused, who have been accused of rape and murder - motivation of attack - lust, not drugging the victim.

Sometime soon, probably before the end of this month, the findings of Brit experts will have to brought to bear on this case. There are two groups of Brits. There is the independent DNA expert who is working with the defense (sorry, I can't recall his name). He is unlikely to be under the sway of the Brit government, so can therefore speak frankly. Then there are a bunch of coroners and experts who all work under the auspices of the Brit government. They've all been cagey, vague and non-committal - probably because their higher ups are gagging them because diplomacy between countries trumps justice for H and D, and Brit gov't officials don't want any important people in Thailand to lose face. Yet, even Brit officials will have to show their hand - unless they do what they did in the Kirsty Jones case: kept mum, and allowed guilty Thai men to get away with rape and murder, for the same reasons I just articulated.

[catsanddogs]

Out of "likes" but many good posts on the last two pages.

I think the Norfolk report is going to have to do with either the cause of death being different from the Thai report or, They were able to collect DNA and from the body that is not the B2's. I have to also agree with Bulldozer Dawn, authorities in Thailand don't give a toss what people outside of Thailand think as long as their bottom line isn't effected... Tourism is a bit shaky these days with all that's going on but not shaky enough to scare these people. I won't be shocked if the B2 are found guilty after this farce, sadly.

Can I add to this its BOTH reports of both victims. Differences in the findings. Trust me on this.

You know, I hadn't even thought of the coroner having David's report as well... Completely didn't even think of it, Thank you. That makes it a double-whammy for the prosecution because for sure, David's report will blow the RTP's theory both victims were killed with the hoe out of the water in court. The evidence against the accused is all but sunk as it is and conflicting pathology reports are another major issue for the court moving forward. Unbelievable, it's all that keep springing to mind. Like some kind of old Twilight Zone story.

But the RTP said none of David's blood was on the hoe.

Edited September 12, 2015 by catsanddogs

[oldsailor35]

SO it's been noted by other posters, and by the tweet from Jonah Fisher, that actually the important DNA comes from the body, which is all well and good, but even if the Hoe is not the focus of this, for gofs sake, it's stated as the main murder weapon, so if the B2 Dna ain't on it, regardless of all the other "evidence: the prosecution has, their case still appears to be all wrong. Ridiculous.

I don't understand why you don't understand.

If the judge accepts that the evidence that the DNA from Hannah's body matches the DNA of the accused, and the defence do not adequately and completely demolish this evidence, the suspects will be found guilty.

This has been stated clearly many times by many commentators. The task of the defence is to challenge THIS evidence. If the court accepts it as true, a gulity verdict is absolutely inevitable.

I don't understand why people find this hard to grasp. If the judge is convinced, then it links the two suspects unarguably to a violent rape and murder. It has always been the part of the case that was essential for the defence to disprove.

The fact that the defence refused an offered retest of the DNA found on Hannah is still extremely puzzling, and to me that represents a crucial point in how their case has been handled. If this evidence has been somehow faked, a forensic examination of the laboratory evidence on which it is based would reveal it. I hope this will be part of the upcoming defence or they will not win.

And, if this evidence cannot be disputed, it is compelling evidence for guilt.

You appear not to know that the defence declined the DNA retest when they were told that it would be taken over by the RTP. What would you expect them to do .

[lucaswallachia]

So the b2 had their clothes stolen, and they had bought beer and wine so wouldnt they have had money or a wallet in their clothes?

[oldsailor35]

Weren't there early allegations that the son of a prominent islander might have been involved? His DNA 'supposedly' tested....and 'verified' he wasn't involved.

If so, perhaps the good Dr. Pornthip would want to reexamine that DNA sample

Important for her as well to personally get the DNA from that guy.

Did'nt he refuse to give DNA for some stupid reason which was accepted by the RTP

[balo]

to darkknight:

I am concerned about social media and how easy it is to pick out suspects and actualy how easy it is to ruin other peoples lifes, I have some personal experience with this , both FB and sites like CSI LA and others can really destroy people, IF he is innocent. Believe me if Nomsod is a cold blooded murderer I like to see him dead, but I do not believe he is that kind of person, again based on my personal opinion and observations.

Both the DNA test and CCTV should have cleared his name in any other western country but this being Thailand so it will not be that easy anymore. Again Nomsod is just one person , we all know a group of people must have been responsible , but its easy to just pick out NS and then nothing new will come out of that. My personal opinion of course.

[oldsailor35]

“The documents have been edited. The dates are not right,” Dr Pornthip, who has decades of experience in forensic science, told the three sitting judges.

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/dna_found_on_murder_weapon_does_not_match_with_two_men_on_trial_for_killing_hannah_witheridge_1_4228734

Felt this needed re-posting. Her statement reminded me of the discussions concerning the possible editing and date discrepancies related to the CCTV in Bangkok (original suspect).

It's a shame we don't know more about what exactly was edited. Just the dates? What sort of significance would have? Because, ultimately, the key is the DNA sample. Altering a date on a document would not affect the test results (unless the samples were switched).

I believe the CCTV in Bangkok is genuine. But it proves nothing other than that the individual in question was walking out of his apartment sometime after 9 am. It does not prove that he was in his room from the previous midnight. Videos of him entering his apartment would have been conclusive but does that exist????

The whole video was photo shopped. Also he was reported to be on his way to uni class ...........No note books etc ? nothing, usually students have got all their papers etc with them.

[boomerangutang]

I'm following the trial with interest , and I am happy for any factual news that will come out of the court room. I am just an observer like anyone else and if B2 are innocent then a lot of work needs to be done to catch the real killers.

But maybe time to find out how many suspects there is in this case? Is it a group of like 10 to 20 people that could have been involved somehow , both Thais and foreigners or are we just gonna focus on 1 or 2 persons in the next months ahead ?

Well Balo, good to hear you're easing a bit closer to reason. My opinion: very doubtful there were 10 to 20 criminals partaking in the crime. It would be hard for that many to keep mum and to cover their tracks. We would have heard about a big crowd, if that was the case.

Crime investigations very often focus on one or two prime suspects in the hope that, if they're guilty they will rat on others involved. It has traditionally happened in Cosa Nostra Mafia, and many other cases.

It's doubtful the former suspects will be scrutinized if the B2 are let off, and here's why: It will have been over a year since the crime. Crime scenes quickly go cold in Thailand. Even when a crime scene is minutes/hours old, Thai investigators can't find clues, so how can we expect them to do better when the scene is over a year old? Also: Mon was prancing all over the crime scene, so any DNA evidence which points at him can be dismissed. Most importantly, the Headman won't ease up on shielding his darling son. If NS is indicted, the Headman will likely do and pay anything to get him dismissed. Big money can be very persuasive.

[cookee68]

Then why does this charade have to continue? Doesn't the justice system have anyone with conscience to do the honorable thing. I wonder if in the system there are provisions for bringing charges to anyone who engages in coverup, purgery and making attempts to pin evidence on innocent subjects. Is there any provision to bring and lay charges in the event such acts deemed to have taken place?

No this is how it is done in Thailand, regardless of guilt, in the UK it would have been thrown out, but Thailand is not all about the evidence, it can be just about who you are and where you are from,

[Rykbanlor]

to darkknight:

I am concerned about social media and how easy it is to pick out suspects and actualy how easy it is to ruin other peoples lifes, I have some personal experience with this , both FB and sites like CSI LA and others can really destroy people, IF he is innocent. Believe me if Nomsod is a cold blooded murderer I like to see him dead, but I do not believe he is that kind of person, again based on my personal opinion and observations.

Both the DNA test and CCTV should have cleared his name in any other western country but this being Thailand so it will not be that easy anymore. Again Nomsod is just one person , we all know a group of people must have been responsible , but its easy to just pick out NS and then nothing new will come out of that. My personal opinion of course.

Sorry to butt in, while I agree with you that trial by social media is a very dubious entity and can be highly damaging, I would like to remind you that in court, any evidence of the results of NS's DNA test were not shown, and the Officer on the stand admitted he had never recieved them, seen them or even knew if they existed.