Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

[Artisi]

Darker days are drawing near.

If the army is going round the villages pointing out "the error of their (political) ways" to people then dark days are here.

What hope is there for a free election?

since you seem to know all about it maybe you could explain to us all what exactly the people were being told that was so bad, anyone else wants to chip in please do - facts only please, no made up red propaganda

I agree completely -so much bitching and nonsense all seemingly based on nothing at this stage - typical narrow minded let's knock the junta as we are fully aware of their misguided efforts to stamp-out our beloved red ideals. Never mind the red crap that was being promoted on a daily basis under the all loving banner of our upstanding law abiding PM now criminal fugitive ex PM - promoting "if you don't toe-the-line watch-out " and no village loans for you etc.

So before bitching, complaining and pushing your own warped agenda, a few facts might either help you cause or shoot it down.

Well perhaps we could consider a few things.

1. The army stood by and allowed a largely paid for street mob, some armed, led by an opposition politician, disrupt and in fact prevent an election called in a fully constitutional way. That is a fact, it happened in plain view of the public and the media, domestic and international.The degree to which the army were aware beforehand that the election was to be prevented is unproven, and so cannot be regarded as a fact, although the leader of the aforesaid mob has publicly claimed that the army was very much involved in the planning.

2. The army then used the resulting political stalemate as the excuse to stage a coup. That is a fact. The coup leader claimed that it was a spontaneous decision, coups, like all major military operations require careful planning and the dissemination of full instructions to the key participants. The one thing they are not is spontaneous. That too is a fact.

3. Nearly 18 months later, the army is still in control, the coup leader installed himself (despite his promise he would not) as Prime Minister, the elected parliament is replaced by an assembly largely drawn from the military and therefore answerable to its chain of command, he is effectively ruling by decree, (article 44). The Constitution was thrown away without any form of public consultation, despite the fact that it had been "approved" by the people less than seven years ago.Those are facts are they not?

4. Basic rights and freedoms are denied, freedom of assembly, freedom of political activity, the military are able to detain at will (remember the woman dragged from the street and bundled into a pink taxi),and the press is regularly "reminded" what to report and say. Open dissidents are detained by the military, and told that if they do not change their ways they may face further longer detention,along with confiscation of assets and fiscal penalties.Those are all facts.

5. Now this same Army boasts at its success in deploying troops to help "Isaan folk find correct political understanding" These same "Isaan Folk" whose right to have their opinions expressed by their vote in the election was denied.

Now you may consider commenting on this whole business as "bitching, complaining and pushing your own warped agenda", I would suggest that viewing it with any sort of approval shows utter contempt for the Thai electorate, (among whom I presume you live), a total lack of concern for basic freedoms for the Thais (as long as their absence does not materially impinge on your life); and perhaps even an enthusiasm for a form of government more familiar to South American banana republics from the last century, rather than any interest in this countries admittedly tenuous hold on democracy. I find it an appalling thing to have happened to a country which was taking its first painful steps towards becoming a mature democracy, and that is why I bitch and complain. Feel free to regard the views I have just expressed as a warped agenda if it helps you to ignore the inconvenient truths which they underline.

I don't have any argument with the majority of points you have made, as facts are facts - however is the current situation which appears to be acceptable to many people any worse than where the previous government and anti-government stand - off was heading?

At this stage I can only see benefit coming from the current situation in the long term - however bad as some might like to view it - rightly or wrongly.

[JAG]

The previous government - anti government standoff would have been resolved if the election had proceeded. Whichever faction won the election would then have had the mandate to use the law, and the forces of "law and order" for want of a better phrase, to allow it to govern effectively. The precedent of ousting an elected government by the electoral process, or confirming it, would then have been established. Not firmly as it is in a mature democracy, but non the less established. (I'm sure you will agree this all takes time).

The current situation is likely (sadly) to establish the precedent of a government being ousted by force. That takes us back to year zero in terms of establishing a democracy.

On the other hand such an ousting, whilst it may well be painful, and indeed bloody, may act as a "spring cleaning" of the Thai political landscape. I would like to see such a "spring clean". I don't want to see it achieved through violence.

[smedly]

Smedley, you just don't get it do you?

Why is the army doing this? Since when has ANY Army been democratic? What right does the Army have to "educate" people on politics?

Forget what the contents are, they are part of the problem, but you just keep ignoring this fact.

This is like you coming to my house and telling me how I should live my life!!

oh I do get it, corruption rules in this country and when the people are allowed to actually vote without a bribe or intimidation and those in office actually make an attempt to represent the interest of the people and not themselves only then will this country evolve from the dark grip of twisted greed and lies

Some people, actually it seems to be many, just love knocking any effort to sort out the mess that this country had been and is currently in. The junta may well not be ideal group to undertake this task, but they are certainly streets ahead of anyone else currently capable.

Says who? What qualifies them, an autocratic organisation, to be able to preach and teach democracy?

I am hoping at some point going forward you can actually pass your opinion without the condesending insults attached, you and I both disagree with what the junta intends going forward, although I don't agree 100% with some of their diplomacy I do generally believe their intentions are good, only time will tell if I got it right and you got it wrong, for now post your opinion and leave the insults

[Hawk]

Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

Helped by using intimidation, army went fully equiped with M16s, grenades, riot sticks and shields.

[jcsmith]

Puff piece by The Nation lapdogs...good boy.

Apparently the Nation's attitude adjustment session worked.

[chrisrazz]

I am wondering. By what yardstick do they use to measure the success of these little 'get togethers'? If they are using disingenuous 'feedback', then they are fools.

Perhaps the military finance dept. need to check the expenses of this special political education unit. Do some checks as to its activity, then claim their cut of the profits from this neat little scam. Actually, on second thoughts, bypass all the work involved and just divvy up the dosh in the officers mess.

[Krataiboy]

I thought political meetings were banned. Or doesn't brainwashing at gunpoint count?

[Mangkhut]

How should one react upon this? Cry or laugh......

[smedly]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Some red shirts did need to be educated regarding democracy. They had the idea that democracy involved preventing the opposing party from campaigning in their ridings. They did this by throwing rocks, bricks, potted plants (seriously), home made bombs etc., they used trucks with loud speakers to drown out politicians during rallies. Clearly those people had a misunderstanding of how democracy should work. The PDRC, on the other hand merely blocked access to voting booths which is a much more democratic way to behave. Truth is, most Thais don't understand real democracy, because they have never experienced it.

The PDRC merely blocked access to polling booths? They blocked, they bashed, they tortured, they murdered. And still people tried hard to vote. Have you forgotten "respect my vote"?

it was very clear that the majority of Thai people did not want elections before reforms, PTP ignored them (as usual) and continued to push their agenda, the EC should have refused to organize elections until there was stability in the country, this situation existed because there was nothing clear in the constitution that addressed it and everyone was pushing their own interpretations making the situation worse, not to mention PTP and their blatant threat not to comply with the courts when they ruled, it is no wonder the General lost it and eventually had to step in, also worth noting that he got all sides round the table for talks to see if they could resolve the situation before seizing power

and the only people doing any murdering were the reds with their nightly gun and grenade attacks while the police were told to ignore them

[50baht]

Copying Obamas policies.

[Artisi]

Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

Helped by using intimidation, army went fully equiped with M16s, grenades, riot sticks and shields.

You do have first hand confirmation of intimidation, don't you? Or is this just more unnecessary junta knocking?

[Fat Haggis]

Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

Helped by using intimidation, army went fully equiped with M16s, grenades, riot sticks and shields.

You do have first hand confirmation of intimidation, don't you? Or is this just more unnecessary junta knocking?

How about proving him wrong then instead of guzzling down more kool aid

[Artisi]

Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

Helped by using intimidation, army went fully equiped with M16s, grenades, riot sticks and shields.

You do have first hand confirmation of intimidation, don't you? Or is this just more unnecessary junta knocking?

How about proving him wrong then instead of guzzling down more kool aid

Not having made any outlandish statements, I don't see the need to prove anything.

[JAG]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Some red shirts did need to be educated regarding democracy. They had the idea that democracy involved preventing the opposing party from campaigning in their ridings. They did this by throwing rocks, bricks, potted plants (seriously), home made bombs etc., they used trucks with loud speakers to drown out politicians during rallies. Clearly those people had a misunderstanding of how democracy should work. The PDRC, on the other hand merely blocked access to voting booths which is a much more democratic way to behave. Truth is, most Thais don't understand real democracy, because they have never experienced it.

The PDRC merely blocked access to polling booths? They blocked, they bashed, they tortured, they murdered. And still people tried hard to vote. Have you forgotten "respect my vote"?

it was very clear that the majority of Thai people did not want elections before reforms, PTP ignored them (as usual) and continued to push their agenda, the EC should have refused to organize elections until there was stability in the country, this situation existed because there was nothing clear in the constitution that addressed it and everyone was pushing their own interpretations making the situation worse, not to mention PTP and their blatant threat not to comply with the courts when they ruled, it is no wonder the General lost it and eventually had to step in, also worth noting that he got all sides round the table for talks to see if they could resolve the situation before seizing power

and the only people doing any murdering were the reds with their nightly gun and grenade attacks while the police were told to ignore them

By what measure was it clear that the Thai people did not want an election? Several thousand, even tens of thousands, listening to Suthep and his mates in ranting away in Bangkok hardly constitutes a majority of the Thai people does it?

And as for the general losing it and stepping in, as I have already argued several times, coups are not spontaneous events. You simply don't stand up after a long day chairing a round table discussion, (conveniently held in a military establishment) , scratch your backside, yawn and announce "I'm bored with this, i'm taking power as of now". Coups are large scale military operations. They have to be planned, the right resources and people have to be at the right places at the right time. Potential opponents have to be neutralized, or at least the forces to do so must be prepared and ready to do so at short notice. Orders and instructions have to be issued and disseminated, the key actions probably have to be rehearsed. It takes days, if not weeks to prepare. I would argue that this coup was in preparation throughout the time that Suthep and his gangs were rampaging around Bangkok, taking everyone's attention, international and domestic, away from the preparations. i'm sure the government knew it was coming, not that they could do a blind thing about it without starting a civil war. They chose not to do that, (perhaps that is to their credit).

[Bluespunk]

Welcome to the new world order.

You have the right to think what we tell you to think.

No, you nod and say yes but you can think what you like

Yeah, I'm not so sure those helping others find the correct view would agree.

[Fat Haggis]

Army unit helps Isaan folk find 'correct political understanding'

Helped by using intimidation, army went fully equiped with M16s, grenades, riot sticks and shields.

You do have first hand confirmation of intimidation, don't you? Or is this just more unnecessary junta knocking?

How about proving him wrong then instead of guzzling down more kool aid

Not having made any outlandish statements, I don't see the need to prove anything.

Considering they were going into red shirt areas, where they've alleged on many an occasion that there's dissent and trouble, wouldn't it be actually procedure to carry weapons, and have such items as shields and batons to hand, just in case people didn't see eye to eye with their preaching of democracy?

For sure the poster exaggerated but perhaps they did present themselves equipped for a confrontation? All I asked of you was to provide us all with some proof they didn't, you know, two sides of the coin?

[bobmac10]

It seems many of you conveniently forget the red shirt villages with their education centres where anyone against them were afraid to speak out. It will be interesting to actually get a first hand account from someone who has been to one of the army meetings.

Valentine, shame,

I've lived in a Northern province village for years all during the redshirts uprising, and you need to know there was never any coercion by redshirt political leaders at any meetings I attended.

In fact, there was overwhelming support for their colleagues in Bangkok at that time demonstrating against the army takeover.

Almost every house along the road from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai had a red flag out the front.

I would say, they haven't forgotten and they are keeping their powder dry for an election.

Anyway, where did you get that nonsense from?

[ramrod711]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Some red shirts did need to be educated regarding democracy. They had the idea that democracy involved preventing the opposing party from campaigning in their ridings. They did this by throwing rocks, bricks, potted plants (seriously), home made bombs etc., they used trucks with loud speakers to drown out politicians during rallies. Clearly those people had a misunderstanding of how democracy should work. The PDRC, on the other hand merely blocked access to voting booths which is a much more democratic way to behave. Truth is, most Thais don't understand real democracy, because they have never experienced it.

Well I agreed with you for the first part until I read the second one.

This is irony right?

You mean it is a democratic way to prevent democratic vote?

The PDRC supporters would love the same poll they have in North Kora : one guy only to be elected and only one choice "yes".

I have seen other posters actually write "sarcasm" after what I thought was, or should be, an obvious sarcastic remark. I thought it was unnecessary, that surely it was obvious, seems I gave too much credit. I'll type slowly so you can understand, I do not believe that blocking voting booths is democratic, I do not support it, it was a joke. Get over it.

[gigman]

Some developed and leading country are using similar tactics for ages just using media on everyday basis .......and no one really complain.

And people are long time modern slaves already ....to see same things in LOS and get so much criticism ??? they are just next in the world progress....

[ramrod711]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Some red shirts did need to be educated regarding democracy. They had the idea that democracy involved preventing the opposing party from campaigning in their ridings. They did this by throwing rocks, bricks, potted plants (seriously), home made bombs etc., they used trucks with loud speakers to drown out politicians during rallies. Clearly those people had a misunderstanding of how democracy should work. The PDRC, on the other hand merely blocked access to voting booths which is a much more democratic way to behave. Truth is, most Thais don't understand real democracy, because they have never experienced it.

The PDRC merely blocked access to polling booths? They blocked, they bashed, they tortured, they murdered. And still people tried hard to vote. Have you forgotten "respect my vote"?

They tortured and murdered who? Did they have their own machine shop manufacturing grenade launchers, did they try to blow up fuel bunkers at the airport, did they blow up 2 of the 4 legs on an electrical tower supplying Bangkok. You and I often disagree but usually your posts are reasonable, not this one. seems to me the last murders I read about were a couple of grandchildren, and the red shirts cheered about it. Want to see the video?

[metisdead]

Give it a rest with your condescending remarks, and your idle threats, you'd show me nothing, it shows more about your true character.

I would suggest to everybody to settle down, posts will be removed.

Another post bringing the King into the discussion has been removed:

1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.

By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.

Discussion of the Lese Majeste law or Lese Majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family.

To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.

Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them.

[Fat Haggis]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Some red shirts did need to be educated regarding democracy. They had the idea that democracy involved preventing the opposing party from campaigning in their ridings. They did this by throwing rocks, bricks, potted plants (seriously), home made bombs etc., they used trucks with loud speakers to drown out politicians during rallies. Clearly those people had a misunderstanding of how democracy should work. The PDRC, on the other hand merely blocked access to voting booths which is a much more democratic way to behave. Truth is, most Thais don't understand real democracy, because they have never experienced it.

The PDRC merely blocked access to polling booths? They blocked, they bashed, they tortured, they murdered. And still people tried hard to vote. Have you forgotten "respect my vote"?

They tortured and murdered who? Did they have their own machine shop manufacturing grenade launchers, did they try to blow up fuel bunkers at the airport, did they blow up 2 of the 4 legs on an electrical tower supplying Bangkok. You and I often disagree but usually your posts are reasonable, not this one. seems to me the last murders I read about were a couple of grandchildren, and the red shirts cheered about it. Want to see the video?

I guess the guys caught by the mad monk would say they were merely having a chat.

I guess the guy found near dead in the canal who had been held in a PDRC camp, was only getting attitude adjustment?

I guess the PDRC bought their M16's and Tavors from 7/11 then? Have you forgotten about the Army guys caught gun running for the PDRC stopped and detained by the cops?

I guess you also forgot about the Thai Navy SEAL's who were moonlighting for Suthep, armed with official and suppressed weapons?

No doubt at all that the red shirts were the worst of the aggressors, but there was enough nastiness coming from the PDRC camp, moving a traffic cone could get you beaten and shot too if I recall correctly.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[chainarong]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Funny statement when you consider politicians have been doing this for years!

the difference being not at the point of a gun

[Fat Haggis]

It seems many of you conveniently forget the red shirt villages with their education centres where anyone against them were afraid to speak out. It will be interesting to actually get a first hand account from someone who has been to one of the army meetings.

Valentine, shame,

I've lived in a Northern province village for years all during the redshirts uprising, and you need to know there was never any coercion by redshirt political leaders at any meetings I attended.

In fact, there was overwhelming support for their colleagues in Bangkok at that time demonstrating against the army takeover.

Almost every house along the road from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai had a red flag out the front.

I would say, they haven't forgotten and they are keeping their powder dry for an election.

Anyway, where did you get that nonsense from?

more than likely from people who didn't live in such areas, you know, the experts in all things Thai because they've lived here "longer than you", that's who

[ianf]

Thai army manipulating the ordinary majority of Thais by "helping" them to "correctly" understand the political situation. Thi is a shame for Thailand. Taking advantage of the poor by undue influence.

Tell me: Is this any different from the Red Shirt training schools promulgated by Thaksin? Is the way that things are done here?

[stickylies]

they did the same during cold war. army and right-wing village guards explaining ("educating") villagers communism is bad... people tend to forget the army has always been extremely powerful in this country. even when they are not actively in charge, they hold most power behind the curtain. the army is considered the nucleus keeping the nation together, they are the good guys fighting for the good cause, the supreme nation of Thailand, a country that has (according to them) always been superior compared to its inferior (colonized) neighbours, a prosperous country, with happy shiny people. Land of smiles...

[jackted]

"Another success is the government-funded "One Tambon One Million Baht" project"

I thought Uncle was against Taksinesque populist policies? Not a single baht has reached my wife`s poor village but then it would only increase household debt further.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Is this any different to what the various Thaksin parties have done over the last 15 years? Each side is trying to tell the voters that their way is the best way. It's called politics.

But Thaksin was elected

[ramrod711]

The PDRC merely blocked access to polling booths? They blocked, they bashed, they tortured, they murdered. And still people tried hard to vote. Have you forgotten "respect my vote"?

They tortured and murdered who? Did they have their own machine shop manufacturing grenade launchers, did they try to blow up fuel bunkers at the airport, did they blow up 2 of the 4 legs on an electrical tower supplying Bangkok. You and I often disagree but usually your posts are reasonable, not this one. seems to me the last murders I read about were a couple of grandchildren, and the red shirts cheered about it. Want to see the video?

I guess the guys caught by the mad monk would say they were merely having a chat.

I guess the guy found near dead in the canal who had been held in a PDRC camp, was only getting attitude adjustment?

I guess the PDRC bought their M16's and Tavors from 7/11 then? Have you forgotten about the Army guys caught gun running for the PDRC stopped and detained by the cops?

I guess you also forgot about the Thai Navy SEAL's who were moonlighting for Suthep, armed with official and suppressed weapons?

No doubt at all that the red shirts were the worst of the aggressors, but there was enough nastiness coming from the PDRC camp, moving a traffic cone could get you beaten and shot too if I recall correctly.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I didn't forget the soldier who was killed, following orders to arrest the killers that bombed and shot the market place where a little girl died helping her grandmother. I haven't forgotten the nightly attacks on the PDRC protest sites, or the idiots who claimed they did it to themselves. Do you remember the people shot down at the road block in Bangkok? Too bad we can't get past all that, Thaksin and Suthep and what they have managed to do to this country.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Some developed and leading country are using similar tactics for ages just using media on everyday basis .......and no one really complain.

And people are long time modern slaves already ....to see same things in LOS and get so much criticism ??? they are just next in the world progress....

,

Similar?I don't remember of any coups in the USA,UK,Germany Sweden,Holland etc,also I don't see any military junta with in"developed" countries