Where To Dwell Outside Bangkok?

[thaimee]

Pattaya - Huan Hin - Cha Am?

surfing through the Hua Hin/ Cha Am section, i noticed some interesting facts. looks like Hua Hin has much new ongoing housing development. this would include further projects in the pipeline. so my way of thinking was to qusetion the idea of how would pattaya compare with say Cha Am for property placement/ relocation?

however i can't argue the whys and where fors for Hua Hin as i've not been before! i can assume some of the distinguished members here might have visited before? i can clearly see an opportuntiy to claim a slice of reality at below premium price and further an expats lifestyle. how hard will it be to sell on a property in next three years in pattaya as there are thousands of new units, hotels and condominiums with no matching figure of tourists to fill the eventual discrepancies?

does anyone see a underlying pattern in pattaya where it's reached saturation point? on the other hand can't say what rate of development is occuring in the Hua Hin/ Cha Am area either? perhaps, i could see myself settled down more in an area like Cha Am than perhaps Pattaya. i guess it's a matter of opinion but i thought i would put the thread out and see what your thoughts are?

Thaimee.

[Digger]

In my opinion Hua Hin and Cha am have little going for them compared to Pattaya in terms of real estate values.

Hua Hin and Cha am are fair sized resorts where by the bulk of property is owned by BKK residents mostly on non performing loans. The reason there non performing is that there is little to encourage growth. There is no business to speak off, other than tourism and land values in my opinion are vastly inflated.

Pattaya on the other hand has a huge demand for housing - it is a city in own right and has an infrastructure (albeit rickidy in places) that will continue to grow. Huge amount of inward investment from non nightlife related businesses, will fuel this even further. Huge number of multinationals opening or expanding on the Eastern Seaboard. Pattaya is in the middle of everything in terms of accessibilty with Lam Chabang port on the one side and Rayong/Matbraput on the other. Most foreign well placed expats choose to live in Pattaya for the infrastructure, not the nightlife (e.g Hospitals, schools, supermarkets etc) - none of which is available in Hua In or Cha Am.

New airport is one hour drive from Pattaya and 4 from Hua Hin if your lucky. Guess where the smart money is going.....

[thaimee]

yeah, i see the old factual home truths about pattaya are correct. but then i came to pattaya to get away from bangkok. to get away from the pollution and busy scene. perhaps the infrastructure in hua hin is not as developed as pattaya. but i don't care too much if it's to improve at a later date. so i've learnt something about hua hin, but i shouldn't dismiss the notion that pattaya could worsen. it appears to be over saturated and building on old outdated building practices. i don't see pattaya as an international hub for tourism and i'd be a little put off recommending pattaya as place to be. things do appear too congested. but i do take your point of view. certainly i don't dismiss mine as i've compared prices and believe hua hin to be relatively cheaper but perhaps not for local services. so bit of a trade of isn't it really. i also believe the non performing loans issue is evident all through thailand so may i assume you are an agent yourself? been to many housing auctions in pattaya and have a fair idea of what's going on thank you. in any event aren't you being a little negative. the obvious adavntage i see is the location of the airport and how far we are away from bangkok. these are clear adavantages. but then i sure ain't going to agree with anyone who thinks pattaya is on the up. more violence, and more of everything on the bad side. i believe hua hin has international schools and a moderate infrastructure. i wait for a more constructive input.

thaimee.

[monty]

Hi Thaimee,

I have to concur with digger on most points, just as I agree with some things you wrote... Pattaya is a little on a downward trend concerning crime, violence and overdevelopment. The water supply for one has a hard time keeping up, leaving some housing estates without tapwater for days in a row. But if you happen to live in the more upmarket estates they will have their own supply (deep well)...

As I wrote in another thread, the Pattaya Police is certainly upping the ante with patrolling the streets and putting up checkpoints on unexpected places...A lot of the youth gangs have already disapeared from the streets, especially in Jomthien where I live...Still we hear to much reports of streetmuggings, drive by bagsnatchers etc...

I have been to Hua Hin and I must agree with Digger it's simply not in the same league as Pattaya concerning a lot of things... Still no International schools (they do have some extended English/Math programs in some schools, but still follow the Thai Curriculum which is worthless in my opinion!)

For some reasons the Hua Hin hospitals seem to have a terrible reputation, no clue why, but just type hospital + Hua Hin in google !

The nearest big supermarkt (Big C) is in Petchaburi, about 50 minutes away by car...

These are things that people wanting to relocate all take into consideration, and until there is no major improvement in this infrastructure I don't see Hua Hin become a big hit with expats...

Even with the overdevelopment of Pattaya it still has a lot of things going for it, mainly that there are new residential area's popping up everywhere, far away enough from the town not to be bothered by it's problems, but still within a 15 minute drive from all its infrastructure advantages such as schools, hospitals, shopping, etc... The Mabprachan district springs to mind... and no I am not some agent or developer, I'm just very convenience minded...

As always, it's up to you, you must weigh the pro's and con's for yourself...

Investment wise I would not advise on Pattaya, but be even more negative of Hua Hin...

For me Hua Hin will stay a very nice place to "get away" from it for a couple of days, in Holiday Mode!!!

[Digger]

yeah, i see the old factual home truths about pattaya are correct. but then i came to pattaya to get away from bangkok. to get away from the pollution and busy scene. perhaps the infrastructure in hua hin is not as developed as pattaya. but i don't care too much if it's to improve at a later date. so i've learnt something about hua hin, but i shouldn't dismiss the notion that pattaya could worsen. it appears to be over saturated and building on old outdated building practices. i don't see pattaya as an international hub for tourism and i'd be a little put off recommending pattaya as place to be. things do appear too congested. but i do take your point of view. certainly i don't dismiss mine as i've compared prices and believe hua hin to be relatively cheaper but perhaps not for local services. so bit of a trade of isn't it really. i also believe the non performing loans issue is evident all through thailand so may i assume you are an agent yourself? been to many housing auctions in pattaya and have a fair idea of what's going on thank you. in any event aren't you being a little negative. the obvious adavntage i see is the location of the airport and how far we are away from bangkok. these are clear adavantages. but then i sure ain't going to agree with anyone who thinks pattaya is on the up. more violence, and more of everything on the bad side. i believe hua hin has international schools and a moderate infrastructure. i wait for a more constructive input.

thaimee.

Thaimee - You really must go to Hua Hin and look for yourself. I have been there about 30 times in the last 3 years and initially considered buying somewhere around there for just the reasons you highlighted. The thing that put me off was the hideous road from Bangkok and lack of infrastructure. You cannot under estimate these things if your concerned with real estate growth prospects. The only flight between Bkk and Hua Hin International airport was cancelled due to lack of usage which speaks volumes for the opportunity. Hua Hin is a great place, dont get me wrong and I prefer it to Pattaya in terms of ambience however everything else sucks. No schools to speak off (except a couple of high end universities), no decent healthcare, no supermarkets, no department stores - heck they only have one moderatly sized store and that is useless.

3 hours by car from Bangkok puts it out of the way of weekend traffic and the new motorway is still some 4 years away. OK once it happens you might see some improvement in terms of interest but when I did my sums, I considered that that new motorway had already been factored in to the pre-97 building boom. The problem with NPL's is that there is little pressure on the owners to meet their debt obligations. Therefore invariably they still try to sell at inflated prices. I looked at Palm Springs Country Club as an example, between Hua Hin and Cha Am, in a fantastic setting. Of probably 300 building plots around the golf course, about 20 had been built on. However the asking price was still in the region of 12,000 - 16,000 baht per TW which is very high for a virually bankrupt development. Considering that the potential in my opinion from a resale perspective was mostly Thai's I felt that better returns could be gained from outside Pattaya.

As Monty has said, the area around macbraphan resevoir is where the smart money is going. Land values are increasing very quickly. I am no professional developer but I have bought and sold two houses in the area around the resevoir in the last 3 years. On each house I have seen my property rise, on average by 30% and these are the differences between paid for price and then what I have sold it for. Could I have got the same increase in Hua Hin - no way in my opinion which is why I am sticking with the Pattaya suburbs.

Who have I sold to? Brits living in Hong Kong in both cases with no Thai connections. They have also done their homework and concluded that Pattaya with the new airport is undervalued.

Hope this helps

[thaimee]

Pattaya and Huan Hin..

i'm glad the limited few in pattaya have elicited 'real time profit' from an investment in real estate. i wonder if anyone knows on this forum that there are only four real estates areas/ communities that will gain favourable return on your investment. no comments. i imagine they are the high end bracket. however i must warn others to wait for the housing market to cool down in pattaya. say post October of this year onwards as we see a retreat of the property sector.

as for hua hin, i'm dissapointed to hear that hua hin has no infrastructure to speak of. if i do get the chance to go i would evaluate the scenery and ambience of this area against the reported lack of services. if it's as beatifiul as people make it out to be then i will keep a breast of any happenings in the area.

one last question before signing out. would anyone recommend investing short term in our beloved pattaya city? Some of the condominiums selling for 7 million baht seem to be worthless in my opinion if they're not built to european standards. there are many pitfalls to side step in investing here and can't imagine everyone is a smart cookie. so let's say there are exceptions. happy hunting or abide with caution.

Thaimee.

[Digger]

Pattaya and Huan Hin..

i'm glad the limited few in pattaya have elicited 'real time profit' from an investment in real estate. i wonder if anyone knows on this forum that there are only four real estates areas/ communities that will gain favourable return on your investment. no comments. i imagine they are the high end bracket. however i must warn others to wait for the housing market to cool down in pattaya. say post October of this year onwards as we see a retreat of the property sector.

as for hua hin, i'm dissapointed to hear that hua hin has no infrastructure to speak of. if i do get the chance to go i would evaluate the scenery and ambience of this area against the reported lack of services. if it's as beatifiul as people make it out to be then i will keep a breast of any happenings in the area.

one last question before signing out. would anyone recommend investing short term in our beloved pattaya city? Some of the condominiums selling for 7 million baht seem to be worthless in my opinion if they're not built to european standards. there are many pitfalls to side step in investing here and can't imagine everyone is a smart cookie. so let's say there are exceptions. happy hunting or abide with caution.

Thaimee.

I am no condo expert or structural engineer but I have yet to see any Thai condo fall down - whats with the view that if its not European standard that its not worth the money. Have a look at any of the cities in Japan, Hong Kong or Singapore. Are these European standard - not that I know off but they are all far more expensive than anything here or in say London or Paris. Look at London or Paris as an example and you have some truly hideous apartment buildings built 40 years ago with poor sanitary, construction methods etc. In my opinion it all comes down to doing your homework.

Not sure what you mean about 4 real estate areas that gain financially as you then contradict yourself by saying wait until October as we see a "retreat of the property sector" liked to your estimate that the proerty sector will cool down. Why do you think it will cool down?

In terms of getting a quick return on your investment if you bought somewhere, then I suspect with your seemingly limited knowledge of the property market here then the answer is NO. Could/are others with more knowledge going to make money - I would hazzard an educated guess (and thats all you can do with futures, unless you have a crystal ball) and say yes, many have made money. Lots have not, but that is no different from any other investment. Personally I do not gamble on cards or at casinos as I do not know how to play. I also do not play in stockmarkets as I do not know enough about them however there are many many people that do and are making serious money in these areas.

Finally on your last point about condos for 7,000,000 making a profit - if its in one of the better managed buildings and is truly beachfront, I'd hazzard a guess and say yes it will increase in value if the location is in demand (eg on Buddha hill between Pattaya and Jomtien). However you really must look at this from the perspective that if you cannot afford to lose the money or not make any gain, do something else. Rents for condo's are very cheap compared to their purchase price. If it was me, I'd buy a 7,000,000 baht house out at the resevoir and rent it out on a corporate let and then rent a condo in town at a much lower price and live of the income generating from the house rental.

Hope this helps.

[joinme2leave]

Digger, looooong time ago (2004-04-10) you mention the Rayong area.

Do you have any recommendations/infos/links available for me rgd. RAYONG?

Do you know about infrastructure there?

Road connection to/from Pattaya and Bkk?

Approx. percentage of expats/farang investing in that particular region?

IF you are still on-line in thai visa ... your (and any other reader's) comment would be highly appreciated...thx

[Up2U]

Digger, looooong time ago (2004-04-10) you mention the Rayong area.

Do you have any recommendations/infos/links available for me rgd. RAYONG?

Do you know about infrastructure there?

Road connection to/from Pattaya and Bkk?

Approx. percentage of expats/farang investing in that particular region?

IF you are still on-line in thai visa ... your (and any other reader's) comment would be highly appreciated...thx

Rayong is fairly busy with new developments - some geared to expat life-style. Haven't seen many condo's for farangs, but thenI only visit every couple of months, for the weekends.

Shopping is not to Pattaya standards of selection, access is reasonable, by road from Bangkok.

The area is being promoted as a new industrial zone, but the factories and warehousing are a long way inland from the town.

It will take-off when a lot of money is thrown at it, but the intended beneficiaries are the current government people. (see Ko Chang and Toxin).

If your business is in BK, then Rayong is too far to commute, but good for the family.

[cutethaigirl]

but then i sure ain't going to agree with anyone who thinks pattaya is on the up. more violence, and more of everything on the bad side. i believe hua hin has international schools and a moderate infrastructure. i wait for a more constructive input

Strange

Two posters post valid points and you reply with this.

Just go live in Hua Hin and stop wasting posters time