Scenes of horror as a Paris night becomes a bloodbath

[Usernames]

Taking a seat back and pondering what this all really means. After some meditation, it occurs to me that the seemingly SAFE life (read in full letters: A society where nobody is able to defend himself if needed, where violence in any form has been contracted out to State powers) is a rather artificial, and if you ask me personally, an unhealthy situation. To that extent, I am actually in favour of the gun lobbyists in the U.S. Proof has been administered, if it was necessary, that the tight gun controls in Europe are no, read NO, obstacle whatsoever to criminal elements. We knew that, of course. But even if we take the firearms issue out of this, which is specific, I think what is needed is a whole different attitude to life. Yes. Danger is NATURAL! Death, also violent Death, is natural as well. We are meant by evolution to face it.

I worked in Afghanistan a lot as a Civilian, member of various organisations and missions. Security was as difficult as ever, but you would be mistaken if you think that this meant we had no fun. On the contrary, I should say! We socialised a lot, we made love if the occasion offered, we heard music, we even hiked together on one of the nearby mountains, only as a group, of course, Security escort provided. This all appeared to most of us, forgive me, a very natural and healthy lifestyle.

I could drag this out more but the point has been made. What these Islamists did was not to rob us of Paradise, of Civilisation. In some respect, they perhaps did us a favour. Let us heed the lesson, prepare for emergencies, and let us NOT start to be gloomy and pessimist about all this. Life is beautiful! Enjoy while you can...

Personally, I think the Paris of Hemingway, Proust, Joyce, and the Fitzgeralds, as well as fin de siecle Vienna or Berlin in the Twenties, London in the Sixties, were all preferable to the sudden maiming and/or death so prevalent in Afghanistan and other parts of the muslim world where they foul their own nest on a regular basis. Yes, civilization is a paradise. One we should keep. And if that means hunting down the serpent to chuck him out of the garden, so be it. Nobody did Paris any favor by making it even slightly resemble Aleppo.

[Jingthing]

So let's take a realistic tally. Muslims don't get along with Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and most telling...other Muslims. It's time to really push back hard. We have to assume they are all enemies of freedom. I'm sshocked there hasn't been any vigilantism.... Yet.

Of course this is NOT about all Muslim people. Remember the Muslim young man hero during the Paris grocery store attack by the Islamic Jihadists who was probably responsible for preventing a much larger massacre of Jews.

Of course there is no denying this will increase tensions. People see identifiable Muslims and many will naturally be on higher guard. This can't be helped.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[mpa]

I look forward to the 1,000's of Muslims that will march openly in protest against this atrocity.

The lunatics who did this have nothing to do with normal muslims, if isis did this. I have my doubts.

A strong majority around the world despises those actions.

Time for people like Le pen and the likes to march.

Heil to xenophobia and closed minds.

And Im not a muslim in the slightest.

[arjunadawn]

This is not an attack on democracy, it is an attack and declaration of war on western civilization, culture and values. Governments have lost their last shreds of credibility by failing in their mandate to protect their citizens.

Absolutely, with one edit (IMO): it is a War on Western Civilization from our perspective. It is a War on Humanity from a global perspective. When the West falls, and it will at this rate, the eye of islamic jihad will turn more aggressively East. Those who are not "people of the book" have historically suffered much more under the unrelenting islamic Juggernaut since 632.

This is not an attack on democracy, you are correct. These arguments frame the issue dishonestly. This is an attack on religion, or its absence- period! It does not matter that you are jewish, atheist, christian, buddhist, hindu, pagan, other. If you are in the west this is a religious attack, as defined by the opposing attackers- islamic scripture defines this battlespace, not democracy. Nothing is gained and all is lost to paint this absurdity otherwise. This is a religious war whether you choose to see it as such or not. I am personally disgusted by all religions but this is a religious war!

Note: If your avowed enemy consistently and successfully attacked you in spite of all your posturing, and your enemy was known and avowed to have a map that guided their strikes and tactics, would you continue to declare the enemies successes luck only and dismiss the map? No, it would be the map that enabled there prescience or blueprint.

Edited November 14, 2015 by arjunadawn

[oncearugge]

I look forward to the 1,000's of Muslims that will march openly in protest against this atrocity.

The lunatics who did this have nothing to do with normal muslims, if isis did this. I have my doubts.

A strong majority around the world despises those actions.

Time for people like Le pen and the likes to march.

Heil to xenophobia and closed minds.

And Im not a muslim in the slightest.

Seems that "Muslims" have a record you would do well to acknowledge .......................

The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim

The Beltway Snipers were Muslims

The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim

The underwear Bomber was a Muslim

The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims

The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims

The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims

The London Subway Bombers were Muslims

The Moscow Threat Attackers were Muslims

The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims

The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims

The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims

The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims

The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims

The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims

The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims

The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims

The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims

The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims

The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims

The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims

The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims

The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims

The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims

The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims

That is just the short list compiled by a man who recognises truth !

Perhaps it is time for "normal" Muslims to oppose this Barbarity.

Edited November 14, 2015 by oncearugge

[Linky]

I look forward to the 1,000's of Muslims that will march openly in protest against this atrocity.

They will, they have done it before.

Really ! it must have been such a rarity that i have missed it. When did this happen.

They do it often but you missed them because of your prejudice. Try google.

[Kitsune]

2nd passport found: one Egyptian.

[Thorgal]

Taking a seat back and pondering what this all really means. After some meditation, it occurs to me that the seemingly SAFE life (read in full letters: A society where nobody is able to defend himself if needed, where violence in any form has been contracted out to State powers) is a rather artificial, and if you ask me personally, an unhealthy situation. To that extent, I am actually in favour of the gun lobbyists in the U.S. Proof has been administered, if it was necessary, that the tight gun controls in Europe are no, read NO, obstacle whatsoever to criminal elements. We knew that, of course. But even if we take the firearms issue out of this, which is specific, I think what is needed is a whole different attitude to life. Yes. Danger is NATURAL! Death, also violent Death, is natural as well. We are meant by evolution to face it.

I worked in Afghanistan a lot as a Civilian, member of various organisations and missions. Security was as difficult as ever, but you would be mistaken if you think that this meant we had no fun. On the contrary, I should say! We socialised a lot, we made love if the occasion offered, we heard music, we even hiked together on one of the nearby mountains, only as a group, of course, Security escort provided. This all appeared to most of us, forgive me, a very natural and healthy lifestyle.

I could drag this out more but the point has been made. What these Islamists did was not to rob us of Paradise, of Civilisation. In some respect, they perhaps did us a favour. Let us heed the lesson, prepare for emergencies, and let us NOT start to be gloomy and pessimist about all this. Life is beautiful! Enjoy while you can...

Personally, I think the Paris of Hemingway, Proust, Joyce, and the Fitzgeralds, as well as fin de siecle Vienna or Berlin in the Twenties, London in the Sixties, were all preferable to the sudden maiming and/or death so prevalent in Afghanistan and other parts of the muslim world where they foul their own nest on a regular basis. Yes, civilization is a paradise. One we should keep. And if that means hunting down the serpent to chuck him out of the garden, so be it. Nobody did Paris any favor by making it even slightly resemble Aleppo.

You can't compare the 7 attacks in Paris with the 5 years attacks in Aleppo.

You can see a lot of footages of French FAMAS assault weapons in Syria and used by non-moderate rebels.

The same for franco-german MILAN anti-tank guided missiles. France started to supply them first to the FSA. Later on you could see ISIS and Al Nusra with the same equipments.

During the Syrian army siege of Homs, more precisely in Baba Amr, some 3000 blended opposition militants (Al Nusra+FSA) were trapped/surrounded. The only problem was that some 30 French military advisers/officers were also trapped.

Assads' army didn't commit a carnage. Under UN blackmail he released the whole mass and evacuated them in busses with darkened windows. It's on YouTube. You won't see it reported in Western media.

French foreign minister Laurent Fabius commented in early Syrian civil war period that Assad should disappear from this planet. Moreover he commented that Al Nusra (Syrian Al Quaida franchise) was doing a good job !

So please, don't de-humanise Syrian civilians and differentiate them with the French tragedy.

Latest events of Paris should require soon a prompt French domestic public response for the risk and responsibility towards protection of French citizens in relation to the choice of French governement to engage in a Syrian war.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Thorgal

[arjunadawn]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Brilliant post!

Only if by "Islamist" he means "Islamist terrorists" rather than all Muslims.

What a purposeless post. What he means is exactly what he says, and a child by 2015 gets it. In fact, islamist is effectively synonymous with islamist terrrorist, and in common use everyone knows this.

What rubbish. What utter hair splitting word redefining absurdity does one suggest there is a qualitative difference between islamic supremacy and islamic supremacy with a sword; between calling for the death of others and actually killing others; between raising money for jihad and spending money on jihad? This foolish false difference exists in your mind. Islamist are terrorists because they are jihadis. Jihadis are not just those who shout "My God is Greater Than Your God!" and go boom. Islamists insinuate into mosques, raise money, form front groups, build whabbai mosques, become the muslim brotherhood, etc.

I don't often agree with you. Today I am reminded why.

[Mosha]

If Europe can not destroy a mosque. Can it say no more?56

[Linky]

So let's take a realistic tally. Muslims don't get along with Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and most telling...other Muslims. It's time to really push back hard. We have to assume they are all enemies of freedom. I'm sshocked there hasn't been any vigilantism.... Yet.

Realistic tally.

Jews, christians, hindus, buddhists, other muslims do live together in most muslim countries with no issues.

Muslims living in china, thailand, myanmar, central africa republic, israel are treated harshly and subject to random extermination.

Btw, hindus and christians certainly do not get on we in india, christians are being slaughtered there.

Dont let the facts interrupt bigotry

[BeefSlapper]

Merkel just said she still welcomes refugees in Germany

Sent from my SM-A800F using Tapatalk

[Mudcrab]

What happened to the much-vaunted French intelligence service? Were they all sitting on the Maginot Line eating cheese off white linen cloths? Surely the planning for an attack of this size and complexity must have sent up some smoke signals?

The French and German Intelligence Services have really no idea because they don't know who of the 1 million migrants that entered Europe is a terrorist. The German BND in Pullach has been sending alarm bells for the past two months but they are getting ignored by the people up the ladder in Berlin and I guess in Paris too.

We had a report last week in Germany that 30% of all migrants that entered Germany are unaccounted for and we come to a number of 300,000 migrants and no one knows where those 300,000 migrants went. I posted today on the official government website in Germany that the UNHCR should take over from the German government on registering refugees as the Germans are unable to do it and I was banned straight away on Facebook.

I was a month ago in Paris for 3 days and found that the police handled security very well at both the airport and as well inside Paris but Europe is fighting a shadow that comes and goes so you can't really do much against it.

The number one issue now is to get security back in Europe. I am sure those terrorists inside Europe will activate their cells in the next few weeks and this is not the end of it but the borders must be closed before more of the fanatics attacking the capital cities of Europe.

The status of NATO and the European Union should be reconsidered as well and the Schengen treaty should be abolished.

But there is evidence none of those involved are refugees. The refugees are fleeing isis. And as a poster stated isis decided to to target the german football game indicates isis is not happy germany are taking refugees.

If isis are not happy then i am happy.

Your post is a little confusing!

If ISIS are not happy and they murder over a hundred people.....then you are happy.

Is that what you are saying?

[dageurreotype]

Today:

"French President Francois Hollande was quickly evacuated from the stadium and soon after declared a state of emergency."

But the warnings were spoken:

Published on Oct 10, 2015

Le Pen vs Hollande at the European Parliament English subtitles

Front National-leader Marine Le Pen and French President Francois Hollande in a confrontation at the European Parliament on 7 October 2015.

Please TV readers: watch this video... only 12 minutes of your time to understand that this tragedy could have been avoided, if.... If Ms. Le Pen had been the leader!

Ms. Merkel... you personally disgust me!

To the French people... I have nothing to say but I weep with you today! Hopefully tomorrow I can stand by your side inspirit when you rid your country of your ills!

Bless you!

I wonder if those fools would be clapping like seals now!

[7by7]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Brilliant post!

Only if by "Islamist" he means "Islamist terrorists" rather than all Muslims.

Even if he does, it's a shame that he spoils his argument by implying that no one cared about the Charlie Hebdo murders because we are all anti Semitic!

Particularly as Charlie Hebdo is not a Jewish magazine, nor, as far as I am aware, were either of it's founders Jewish. The magazine describes itself as secular and atheist!

So, that is the new "unmentionable", the Jews? Mentioning Jews next to other victims is "spoiling" an argument? The Charlie Hebdo murder victims were real, the others to be ignored, or what???

That is not what I said.

You are either deliberately twisting what I actually did say or lack the intellect to understand it.

I think it's the former.

[Mudcrab]

here we have the results of letting in 1000000 so-called refugees into europe.

kick merkel out of office fast....

What has merkel to do with this?

Were the terrorists from germany?

You do realise that she is legally bound by the constitution to do what she has done.

Or do you prefer your govt to act illegaly against the constitution.

Nope, but the Bavarian police stopped a car from Montenegro full with explosives, AK47 and grenaned on the way to France on Thursday.

Merkel has everything to do about it as she called for all the borders to open without documentations.

It is obvious isis is not happy with merkel taking refugees. To me that means isis wants them returned to kill or have them join isis.

I would never consider returning refugees to syria for isis to get their hands on them. But thats just me.

Linky....get back to basics old son.

ISIS hate everyone who they perceive is from the 'West' and thus an unbeliever, infidel, kaffir, choose your own term.

They also hate other Muslims for not being Muslim enough, they have beheaded their own foreign members as well...you know the idiots who went to join them for whatever perverse reason from the UK and other countries.

Germany has very little to do with it.

They hate everyone without prejudice.

If you really think that all of the refugees are fleeing Syria you are simply deluded. Many. many do not come from Syria - Pakistan, Afghanistan and a whole bunch of African Muslim nations.

[Linky]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Brilliant post!

Only if by "Islamist" he means "Islamist terrorists" rather than all Muslims.

What a purposeless post. What he means is exactly what he says, and a child by 2015 gets it. In fact, islamist is effectively synonymous with islamist terrrorist, and in common use everyone knows this.

What rubbish. What utter hair splitting word redefining absurdity does one suggest there is a qualitative difference between islamic supremacy and islamic supremacy with a sword; between calling for the death of others and actually killing others; between raising money for jihad and spending money on jihad? This foolish false difference exists in your mind. Islamist are terrorists because they are jihadis. Jihadis are not just those who shout "My God is Greater Than Your God!" and go boom. Islamists insinuate into mosques, raise money, form front groups, build whabbai mosques, become the muslim brotherhood, etc.

I don't often agree with you. Today I am reminded why.

Then u are totally wrong.

Christians that are against abortion are in no way related to christians against against abortion that use violence to force their point.

Lets just out and say what this really is. Its out and out racist. Minority of muslims are from middle east but all the posters here are on about middle eastern bearded rag heads. Thats a quote.

There are many muslims who you wouldnt even know were muslim, eat pork, drink alcohol etc. but reality is most on here know nothing of muslims and islam, yourself included. All they see is dark skinned bearded man with hijab wife in tow and froth starts coming out of their mouth.

But the majority of muslims are not like that.

Its quite funny in malaysia when i am out for beers with the gf and some comments about muslims abound. Sit quietly and let them dig their hole then at the end of the night say they have had a grand old night in company of a muslim girl.

They soon apologise for the stupidity of their generalisation. Funny how they tar all muslims with the same brush.

[arjunadawn]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Would you please check your Jewish privilege when you sign in...it's getting a bit tiresome. This is about terror attacks in France by suspected Islamic extremists...not Jews or Judaism.

Ok, agreed. Perhaps some posters have a Jew Card at check in. Once he checks his card the fact still remains palpably clear, you cannot divorce jewish concerns from nearly all the motivations of islamists/islamic jihad. If you think you can you are doing gymnastics. Jew hatred lies percolating as a motivation and cause de jur in islamic jihad. Perhaps its not always present, but is always a concern.

(I am not a jew. I agree with jingthing frequently because he is correct)

[slipperylobster]

Europe, as we would of liked it to be, is now history. The world is changing, and liberal policies have opened the floodgates.

I am happy I got to see it all 40 years ago. It was..for me...everything I wished it to be.

Far East. Middle East, Near East.........spreading west ...and Europe is now feeling the first wave.

[arjunadawn]

Only if by "Islamist" he means "Islamist terrorists" rather than all Muslims.

Even if he does, it's a shame that he spoils his argument by implying that no one cared about the Charlie Hebdo murders because we are all anti Semitic!

Particularly as Charlie Hebdo is not a Jewish magazine, nor, as far as I am aware, were either of it's founders Jewish. The magazine describes itself as secular and atheist!

So, that is the new "unmentionable", the Jews? Mentioning Jews next to other victims is "spoiling" an argument? The Charlie Hebdo murder victims were real, the others to be ignored, or what???

That is not what I said.

You are either deliberately twisting what I actually did say or lack the intellect to understand it.

I think it's the former.

If it is so clearly being misunderstood than I misunderstood what you said. This is not the first time. If so, I apologize. When a man says he did not say this or that, it is usually the case I got it wrong.

[Linky]

One of those terrible muslims that needs to be eradicated. Sonny Bill Williams, All Black, gives his world cup medal to kid who ran on the field to hug him only to be tackled by security. How dare he try and be nice, he is muslim and all muslims want to kill all non muslims. Yeah right.

For the UK posters, how is Mo Farrah. Another wanting to kill all or just getting on with his life.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=11&ved=0CC8QFjAKahUKEwiGgfL1lZDJAhVBUY4KHWchDUw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsport%2F2015%2Foct%2F31%2Fsonny-bill-williams-world-cup-winners-medal-14-year-old-fan&usg=AFQjCNFz2q6zRHmBkFTrcm8SQYlGcl6euA

[naboo]

[Kitsune]

I don't pray Im atheist

[dageurreotype]

[Linky]

The was a historically significant act of war of Islamists against the entirety of western civilization.

Charlie Hebdo could be "explained" and more marginalized as revenge against a provocative satirical magazine and also the usual Jew hatred (muddied by conflating all the Jews in the world as active soldiers of the state of Israel).

So the general public could still feel, well it's only about "them" those others that provoke the Islamists and of course Jews who are widely hated anyway.

They could choose not to provoke the Islamists with cartoons and Jews, who really cares about Jews?

This is different. Bigger. This is a message for ALL of us in the world who are NOT Islamists.

I think this change in tactics was intentional and this message was intentional. It's not only about free speech cartoons, it's not only about Jews ...

they're after ALL of us.

Message received.

Would you please check your Jewish privilege when you sign in...it's getting a bit tiresome. This is about terror attacks in France by suspected Islamic extremists...not Jews or Judaism.

Ok, agreed. Perhaps some posters have a Jew Card at check in. Once he checks his card the fact still remains palpably clear, you cannot divorce jewish concerns from nearly all the motivations of islamists/islamic jihad. If you think you can you are doing gymnastics. Jew hatred lies percolating as a motivation and cause de jur in islamic jihad. Perhaps its not always present, but is always a concern.

(I am not a jew. I agree with jingthing frequently because he is correct)

Only in your view. If you agree with his reataurant reviews and baht bus reviews the i would seriously question your sanity ?

[flyingdoc]

An absolute tragedy.

[uptheos]

She is so spot on!

[tuanku]

I don't in any way condone what happened in France last night - but there is a context for these events and France's role as the arms dealer of choice to the Middle East cannot be excluded from the general picture. Some of the weapons used last night may have been manufactured in France!

https://www.rt.com/news/256085-hollande-arms-syrian-rebels/

[Linky]

No, the muslim lady asked what the west was doing to eradicate extremism. Not verbatim.

The host then spewed some vitriol against her and muslims about what they were or were not doing.

Not once did she answer the question.

So yes, very enlightening how to not answer a question but instead attack the questioner.

[7by7]

MobileContent, I've not quoted your or my posts on the number of refugees as doing so would take up too much space; we both know what each other said and anyone else interested can go back and look.

However:-

1) No Gulf state has signed the UN Convention on Refugees, therefore the UNHCR do not count the Syrians in any Gulf state as refugees; but from the Wikipedia article I got my figures from

According to the UNHCR's representative for the Gulf region, there are 500,000 Syrians in Saudi Arabia, but in "official documentation they are referred to as "Arab brothers and sisters in distress"" and not as Syrian nationals.^%5B183%5D While Al Jazeera and Arab News, on 12 September 2015, reported that Saudi Foreign ministry official says nation has received nearly 2.5 million Syrians since 2011.^{%5B184%5D%5B185%5D} Though there were no evidence to authenticate this statement or prove it.

Amnesty International does not mention Saudi Arabia for basically the same reason as the UNHCR don't; because Saudi doesn't classify them as refugees.

However, the Amnesty figures are

More than 4 million refugees from Syria (95%) are in just five countries Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq and Egypt:
•Lebanon hosts approximately 1.2 million refugees from Syria which amounts to around one in five people in the country
•Jordan hosts about 650,000 refugees from Syria, which amounts to about 10% of the population
•Turkey hosts 1.9 million refugees from Syria, more than any other country worldwide
•Iraq where 3 million people have been internally displaced in the last 18 months hosts 249,463 refugees from Syria
•Egypt hosts 132,375 refugees from Syria

2) That one may have been living in a country prior to war starting in ones homeland and so one does not, cannot, return home does not mean one is not a refugee.

3) Most refugees in the countries neighbouring Syria do stay there; they lack the means to do anything else. Yes, those who can leave in search of what they believe (hope?) will be a better life in Europe.

In their position, would you not do the same if you could?

Of course, only a fool would deny that among the refugees are chancers, criminals and even some terrorist infiltrators; but the vast majority are genuine.

None of the above is an attempt to belittle the refugee crisis in Europe; it is a vast problem and getting worse; one which needs addressing in a fair and humanitarian manner.

But all of that is a subject for a different topic, not this one.