Huge mess at Chiang Mai airport... thank you Lanterns

[MILT]

Loi Krathong predates the Chiang Mai airport, and aviation in general, by many years. Evidently the airlines have not yet figured out how to schedule flights around this predictable annual event. Why are you blaming the lanterns?

Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago. Loy krathong, when I first saw it, was about putting a Krathong on the river. Not a sky lantern to be seen.

"Loy Krathong - The name could be translated as "to float a basket", and comes from the tradition of making krathong or buoyant, decorated baskets, which are then floated on a river".

Chiang Mai now has far more regular flights than even a few years ago, and don't forget that until not that long ago the only domestic carrier was Thai. Now we have so many budget airlines and international flights, which again are a recent phenomenom. Although they did cancel plenty and do some re-scheduling, it will invariably lead to the chaos that was described by the op, because they presumably have problems fitting the re-scheduled flights in. The problem for the airlines is that the festival is during the high season and brings in many more passengers, so re-scheduling flights isn't easy.

Limiting the sky lanterns to one night is the sensible solution, and shouldn't be that big a deal, I'd have thought. I did notice that in the last few years the numbers of Krathong were way down and the river was not the mass of lights that it used to be.

"Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago. Loy krathong, when I first saw it, was about putting a Krathong on the river. Not a sky lantern to be seen." I moved to Chiangmai 20 yrs. ago and my future wife and I floated our Kratong and lit 9 laterns...so laterns were definitely being lit 10 years before your experience....

[morpho]

Such a fuss about sky lanterns and flights this year and the restrictions imposed as a result. Been in Chiang Mai for 5 years and this has been the worst Loy Krathong I have experienced. I didn't see one lantern in the night sky on the 24th from my apartment overlooking the city. Went down to the Ping on the 25th and I would say that there were only about 25% of the lanterns I've seen in the past and hardly any krathong on the river compared to past years. And last night the rain put a damper on the festivities. Still a wonderful holiday but nothing compared to past years.

[Borneo Baron]

If you are not happy here ,go home!

[FolkGuitar]

Such a fuss about sky lanterns and flights this year and the restrictions imposed as a result. Been in Chiang Mai for 5 years and this has been the worst Loy Krathong I have experienced. I didn't see one lantern in the night sky on the 24th from my apartment overlooking the city. Went down to the Ping on the 25th and I would say that there were only about 25% of the lanterns I've seen in the past and hardly any krathong on the river compared to past years. And last night the rain put a damper on the festivities. Still a wonderful holiday but nothing compared to past years.

My experience was somewhat different from your. I agree that there were virtually no Khum Loi in the sky on the 24th, but on the 25th there were easily three times MORE lanterns floating in the sky than there were last year. My viewpoint was from the 15th floor overlooking the entire valley from west of the Old City. Most impressive launch I've ever seen, and I've been watching this holiday since 2001. I didn't go down to the river this year, though. I'm tired of the crowds and I saw waaay too many big tour buses headed into town on the 25th and 26th.

[LivinLOS]

Loi Krathong predates the Chiang Mai airport, and aviation in general, by many years. Evidently the airlines have not yet figured out how to schedule flights around this predictable annual event. Why are you blaming the lanterns?

Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago.

Flown on Phuket back in 1999 was my memory..

[TheSiemReaper]

I liked the lanterns. I don't care if they're a long-term tradition or not - they're jolly nice. The people of Chiang Mai are entitled to start a tradition whenever they darn well feel like it. If you got to the UK at Christmas, you'll find travel is a lot more inconvenient, try Saudi on the second day of Eid when everyone is on holiday... you'll struggle there too.

I didn't move to Thailand for it to become an Asian version of the US or the UK - I moved here because it's different. We should be celebrating those differences not whining about them. The OP needs to get over themself - globalization is leading to a rapidly homogenized world; that should be resisted wherever possible not embraced so that you can skip through a queue faster at an airport.

[bangon04]

"Of course, we also took off one hour late, making the whole point of rescheduling the flight rather useless."

Well that experience is certainly not limited to Thailand. Welcome to modern aviation.

[morpho]

Such a fuss about sky lanterns and flights this year and the restrictions imposed as a result. Been in Chiang Mai for 5 years and this has been the worst Loy Krathong I have experienced. I didn't see one lantern in the night sky on the 24th from my apartment overlooking the city. Went down to the Ping on the 25th and I would say that there were only about 25% of the lanterns I've seen in the past and hardly any krathong on the river compared to past years. And last night the rain put a damper on the festivities. Still a wonderful holiday but nothing compared to past years.

My experience was somewhat different from your. I agree that there were virtually no Khum Loi in the sky on the 24th, but on the 25th there were easily three times MORE lanterns floating in the sky than there were last year. My viewpoint was from the 15th floor overlooking the entire valley from west of the Old City. Most impressive launch I've ever seen, and I've been watching this holiday since 2001. I didn't go down to the river this year, though. I'm tired of the crowds and I saw waaay too many big tour buses headed into town on the 25th and 26th.

I admit I was not in town last year for Loy Krathong so I can't compared. But 2011 was definitely the most impressive Loy Krathong that I have seen. Khom fai's were being released everywhere and if you stood at Tha Phae Gate, you saw them in mass in every direction ((this year was no comparison). And in 2011, the Ping was also covered in krathong south of the Loi Kroh Bridge. Actually the crowds were not that bad this year on the 25th...only at the Charoen Mueang Bridge where people were permitted to release khom fai's. Hopefully next year will be different.

[alanrchase]

At my first LK, 25 ÿears ago, there was nary a sky lantern to be seen. True, there is an old tradition of constructing and flying lanterns, but these were few, let off by temples as part of ceremonies, and not necessarily during Yee Peng. The mass production, mass marketing, and mass release are very recent phenomena, driven by a few clever capitalists who have learned how to privatize the gain and socialize the pain. One of those pretty little things sucked into a jet turbine on approach or takeoff (the lanterns, not the capitalists) would make for quite the fireworks display, and quite the headline.

Umm... no. One of those things sucked into a jet engine would do nothing. Birds (which are substantially more solid than paper lanterns) are regularly dragged through jet engines and shredded.

Had a mylar baloon sucked into a jet engine before takeoff once. Aborted the mission and replaced the engine. The floating lanterns have metal parts in their construction, ever seen what a small piece of metal can do to a jet engine?

[Minnehaha]

I thought Lanterns were banned near Airports etc.,...read it earlier this month.

they forgot to ban weather patterns

[alfieconn]

No need to worry lads as next year they are doing away with Loy Kratong and replacing it with Loy Katoey, very similar but you just float a Ladyboy down the river instead of a Kratong

[F4UCorsair]

I have been in Thailand for the last 8 years, mostly in Chiangmai,,,,I have never heard of an aircraft major incident caused by the lanterns.

This is a famous Festival that brings tourists and money to the area....

Airport crew may have to inspect the runway more often to remove a few lost lanterns on the ground,,,,

And you probably haven't heard of an aircraft being brought down by a lantern, or lanterns, but that doesn't dictate that it won't, or can't happen.

Operators of aircraft, and aircrew, will always err on the side of caution where safety is involved.

[F4UCorsair]

Umm... no. One of those things sucked into a jet engine would do nothing. Birds (which are substantially more solid than paper lanterns) are regularly dragged through jet engines and shredded.

I disagree. Birds may be shredded, but I've seen fan and turbine blades so badly damaged on the way through, even by smallish birds, and the resulting vibratoon so severe, that the engine has to be shut down.

[heybruce]

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-flight-grounded-in-chiang-mai-by-new-year-lantern-50407.php

describes the problem encountered last year, by a Bangkok Airways flight, at Chiang Mai.

It describes an unconfirmed Facebook post by someone who claims to be a Civil Aviation technician about a lantern that got stuck in an Airbus A320 engine while it was on the ground.

[NoshowJones]

Doesn't take many years here to become a ' tradition' ,just like the 30 feet of speakers for parties ,in my ex wife's village they didn't have electric 20 years ago now any party needs massive speakers and noise because it's their 'tradition'

How many times have I posted about this?

[heybruce]

Loi Krathong predates the Chiang Mai airport, and aviation in general, by many years. Evidently the airlines have not yet figured out how to schedule flights around this predictable annual event. Why are you blaming the lanterns?

Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago. Loy krathong, when I first saw it, was about putting a Krathong on the river. Not a sky lantern to be seen.

"Loy Krathong - The name could be translated as "to float a basket", and comes from the tradition of making krathong or buoyant, decorated baskets, which are then floated on a river".

Chiang Mai now has far more regular flights than even a few years ago, and don't forget that until not that long ago the only domestic carrier was Thai. Now we have so many budget airlines and international flights, which again are a recent phenomenom. Although they did cancel plenty and do some re-scheduling, it will invariably lead to the chaos that was described by the op, because they presumably have problems fitting the re-scheduled flights in. The problem for the airlines is that the festival is during the high season and brings in many more passengers, so re-scheduling flights isn't easy.

Limiting the sky lanterns to one night is the sensible solution, and shouldn't be that big a deal, I'd have thought. I did notice that in the last few years the numbers of Krathong were way down and the river was not the mass of lights that it used to be.

"Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago."

Really? So the stories my 30-something friend told me about floating lanterns during her childhood were just her imagination?

You are correct that sky lanterns aren't associated with Loi Krathong, they are associated with Yee Peng, which happens to occur at the same time as Loi Krathong. I'm pretty sure the Yee Peng tradition of sky lanterns is more than ten years old.

Also, while I'm sure airlines would prefer that traditions be suspended to accommodate flight schedules, I think the airlines should be able to deal with a few days variation in their schedules to accommodate established traditions. After all, a great many of those flyers are coming to Chiang Mai for Loi Krathong/Yee Peng. Downsizing the festival to make it easier to fly people to the festival strikes me as a false economy.

Yes, I'm telling you that sky lanterns as a major part of the Loi krathong festival is a recent thing. Try google and see if you can find me an article mentioning sky lanterns, or a picture of a sky full of lanterns from, let's say 2005. Loi krathong was all about floating a basket on the river. If they released sky lanterns during Loi krathong they were far and few between. Whereas Krathongs and the river were the main focus, it now seems that Sky Lanterns have taken over. I have an old VHS movie of Loi krathong from about 25 years ago, if I can find it, I doubt if there will be any sky lanterns on it. Possibly a few were released from the temples, but nothing compared to the thousands of Krathongs on the river, which would be a mass of lights.

No mention of Sky Lanterns here...

http://www.tour-bangkok-legacies.com/loy-krathong-2007.html

https://www.flickr.com/photos/inbangkok/2059210529

http://thai-travel-info.blogspot.com/2007/10/loi-krathong-festival-of-light-2007.html

Whilst I accept your argument that the Loi krathong festival pre-dates the airport by many years, the tradition of releasing thousands of sky lanterns all over the city certainly doesn't.

Loi Krathong is all about floating a basket on the river, and Yee Ping is all about lanterns. The two festivals coincide.

I don't know about 2005, but there were many lanterns during my first Loi Krathong festival in 2006. Not a great picture, but I'm a poor photographer working with a cheap camera. The lanterns continued in the years to follow, until this year.

The event in Sansai has been going on since 1989. http://www.yeepenglanna.net/history.html

The OP is complaining about lines at the airport on the 25th and blaming it on the lanterns. It was a perfect flying day and the airlines had plenty of advance notice about the need to change their schedules. If the airlines couldn't make the new schedule work the problem was their incompetence, not the lanterns.

Edited November 27, 2015 by heybruce

[circusman]

Loi Krathong predates the Chiang Mai airport, and aviation in general, by many years. Evidently the airlines have not yet figured out how to schedule flights around this predictable annual event. Why are you blaming the lanterns?

Sky lanterns were nothing to do with Loi Krathong until about 10 years ago. Loy krathong, when I first saw it, was about putting a Krathong on the river. Not a sky lantern to be seen.

"Loy Krathong - The name could be translated as "to float a basket", and comes from the tradition of making krathong or buoyant, decorated baskets, which are then floated on a river".

Chiang Mai now has far more regular flights than even a few years ago, and don't forget that until not that long ago the only domestic carrier was Thai. Now we have so many budget airlines and international flights, which again are a recent phenomenom. Although they did cancel plenty and do some re-scheduling, it will invariably lead to the chaos that was described by the op, because they presumably have problems fitting the re-scheduled flights in. The problem for the airlines is that the festival is during the high season and brings in many more passengers, so re-scheduling flights isn't easy.

Limiting the sky lanterns to one night is the sensible solution, and shouldn't be that big a deal, I'd have thought. I did notice that in the last few years the numbers of Krathong were way down and the river was not the mass of lights that it used to be.

Not true. 18 years ago I was here and the sky was full of lanterns. Thousands.

[JaseTheBass]

I thought Lanterns were banned near Airports etc.,...read it earlier this month.

I think a real police force is needed for things like that to work.

[Chicog]

I have been in Thailand for the last 8 years, mostly in Chiangmai,,,,I have never heard of an aircraft major incident caused by the lanterns.

This is a famous Festival that brings tourists and money to the area....

Airport crew may have to inspect the runway more often to remove a few lost lanterns on the ground,,,,

They found a lantern in a 320 engine in January after New Year.

I'm no expert, but I would imagine that pieces of metal might not play well with spinning fan blades in the right circumstances.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Chicog

[cnx355]

I have been in Thailand for the last 8 years, mostly in Chiangmai,,,,I have never heard of an aircraft major incident caused by the lanterns.

This is a famous Festival that brings tourists and money to the area....

Airport crew may have to inspect the runway more often to remove a few lost lanterns on the ground,,,,

They found a lantern in a 320 engine in January after New Year.

I'm no expert, but I would imagine that pieces of metal might not play well with spinning fan blades in the right circumstances.

I saw the photo, it was siting at th bottom front intake cowl of the engine. I am no engiber, but I asked some people I know working on airport tarmac in Canada and they said if the engine was operating that small piece of cotton would have been sucked in and not stay there. As you know , nobody walk in front of a running jet engine,,,, I would not say a worker put it there to "help show the problem"to the newspaper, possibly the wind put it there when the plane was on the tarmac and the engine was shut down.

[Ricardo]

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-flight-grounded-in-chiang-mai-by-new-year-lantern-50407.php

describes the problem encountered last year, by a Bangkok Airways flight, at Chiang Mai.

It describes an unconfirmed Facebook post by someone who claims to be a Civil Aviation technician about a lantern that got stuck in an Airbus A320 engine while it was on the ground.

which was also widely-reported elsewhere at-the-time, so hardly unconfirmed, for example:-

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/lantern-causes-bangkok-airways-flight-cancellation-721761

says that "the airline said today", and "As the plane taxied to its stand, lanterns were spotted floating over the airport and one was apparently sucked into the engine. "After the aircraft parked at the gate, technicians found a lantern stuck to engine number two and the airline decided to cancel Flight PG906", an airline statement said."

If the airline cancelled the next flight, then presumably they thought it was a problem, and I'd tend to go with their judgement, wouldn't you ?

I recall reading about it at-the-time, and posted in response to the several previous posts which seemed to doubt, that there had ever been or might ever be a safety-issue, with lanterns.

[cnx355]

I have been in Thailand for the last 8 years, mostly in Chiangmai,,,,I have never heard of an aircraft major incident caused by the lanterns.

This is a famous Festival that brings tourists and money to the area....

Airport crew may have to inspect the runway more often to remove a few lost lanterns on the ground,,,,

And you probably haven't heard of an aircraft being brought down by a lantern, or lanterns, but that doesn't dictate that it won't, or can't happen.

Operators of aircraft, and aircrew, will always err on the side of caution where safety is involved.

Authorities can choose to cancel the festival or plan in advance with the airlines . They know 1 year in advance the day and time the Festival in going on.

They are the one making money with the tourist coming for the Festival and they are the one controlling safety issue, They need to plan properly and balance business and safety.

[heybruce]

http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-flight-grounded-in-chiang-mai-by-new-year-lantern-50407.php

describes the problem encountered last year, by a Bangkok Airways flight, at Chiang Mai.

It describes an unconfirmed Facebook post by someone who claims to be a Civil Aviation technician about a lantern that got stuck in an Airbus A320 engine while it was on the ground.

which was also widely-reported elsewhere at-the-time, so hardly unconfirmed, for example:-

http://www.ndtv.com/world-news/lantern-causes-bangkok-airways-flight-cancellation-721761

says that "the airline said today", and "As the plane taxied to its stand, lanterns were spotted floating over the airport and one was apparently sucked into the engine. "After the aircraft parked at the gate, technicians found a lantern stuck to engine number two and the airline decided to cancel Flight PG906", an airline statement said."

If the airline cancelled the next flight, then presumably they thought it was a problem, and I'd tend to go with their judgement, wouldn't you ?

I recall reading about it at-the-time, and posted in response to the several previous posts which seemed to doubt, that there had ever been or might ever be a safety-issue, with lanterns.

Perhaps you should have led off with the credible news report instead of the speculative Phuket News story.

[uptheos]

The Chinese lanterns have been flying at Loy Krathong in Chiang Mai for years, I first experienced them the first time I came here in 1997.

I also took a morning flight out of Chiang Mai to Bangkok the day after Loy Krathong about 10 years ago and the plane went up like a rocket, the steepest climb I have ever experienced and was zig zagging as it went up. Only when we got to about 20,000 feet we became aware that there were extinguished lanterns floating around all around the plane. It was pretty eerie to see these things at this height and I certainly wouldn't fancy being in a plane if one of these got sucked into the engine, bearing in mind these are not soft bird flesh, these are held together with loops of steel wire.

I still think that the festival comes first.

Time they took them back to China then, (well, except one day a year).

[connda]

What's more likely?

1. A plane being brought down by a 'bird strike', or
2. a plane being brought down by a komfai lantern?

I can come up with statistics for 'bird strike' crashes. Komfai or khomfai lanterns? None.

This is a yearly exercise in fear-mongering.

[taotoo]

A few years ago I saw a lantern pass by 200m-ish off the wing. Have no idea how damaging one may be, but suspect wire doesn't mince as easily as bird bone.

[Ricardo]

Perhaps you should have led off with the credible news report instead of the speculative Phuket News story.

Or perhaps i shouldn't have bothered at all, but hey, I seemed to be the only person who actually remembered when this happened, just a year ago.

Anybody could have googled the story, only I took the trouble to.

[ARISTIDE]

They can't handle the truth

I heard they were looking for the buffet thread that went missing this afternoon

[Puwa]

What's more likely?

1. A plane being brought down by a 'bird strike', or
2. a plane being brought down by a komfai lantern?

I can come up with statistics for 'bird strike' crashes. Komfai or khomfai lanterns? None.

This is a yearly exercise in fear-mongering.

In terms of reason and logical argument, this is by far the dumbest comment I have read all week. Thanks!

(Unless you are just being sarcastic, posing as a moron for comic effect, in which case, also Thanks!)

[Chiengmaijoe]

What's more likely?

• A plane being brought down by a 'bird strike', or
• a plane being brought down by a komfai lantern?

I can come up with statistics for 'bird strike' crashes. Komfai or khomfai lanterns? None.

This is a yearly exercise in fear-mongering.

Airlines cancel flights, maybe you should tell them there is no need, you'd save them a lot of hassle and lost revenue. Your interpretation of the Laws of Probability will no doubt be the fact that wins them over so make sure you get the numbers right.

As regards to the banning, I don't really see what the fuss is about. The sky lanterns are allowed on one day, isn't that enough? In fact they are only banned in a particular area, so other zones are free to release them when they want.

A few years ago a falling sky lantern cost me about 15,000 baht when it came down on a power line, which duly exploded and the loose, Live cable hit my satellite cable, blowing up a TV. The thin wire is the dangerous part of them, and some manufacturers are looking for alternatives.