Protesters tell US ambassador to "go home"

[simon43]

Britain was so angry at Thailand that in essence they were making moves to have Thailand ceded to them as a form of war reparations..It was an American woman , Betty McKenzie, who then began a massive campaign to save Thailand from this fate.

Well I never knew that. I guess that woman should shoulder a whole lot of blame for the mess that Thailand has been in for decades and decades since WWII

British colonialism had good and bad in it, but IMHO the 'bad' is still much better than what successive Thai governments have managed to achieve with their 'good'.

Edited November 29, 2015 by simon43

[DonaldBattles]

I notice that many people responding to this issue know little about it or Thailand let alone the USA. Maybe if you plan to continue to live here you should go back to school. The following article from the Bangkok Post today seems to clear some of the issues.

Mr Davies was hardly the first or the most critical of the law. The United Nations, the European Union and NGOs involved in human rights investigations have previously harshly assailed the heavier sentencing. In several cases in the past two months, lese majeste defendants have been convicted of multiple offences, and have received longer prison sentences than murderers.

Foreign diplomats and friends, just like Thais, realise the necessity of a lese majeste law. The US ambassador was both narrow and clear in his speech. He said the US government is “concerned by the lengthy and unprecedented prison sentences handed down by Thai military courts against civilians for violating the lese majeste law”.

For the UN, EU and NGO's you did not see the Thai rent a mob demonstrating in front of thier offices. This is truly meant to notify them and others that Thailand is going back to being a Chinese step child. Note there has never been a demonstration in front of the Chinese Embassy.

[seedy]

One Off Topic post removed

[micmichd]

Thailand, Thailand, get real. You need America. Far better to have America competing with China in your country, rather than giving China exclusive rights to your country.

And Thai government, you put up a law banning protests. Well, this particular protest should be banned. These protesters are harming Thailand, have them removed, and don't let them protest again.

BS. They had a right to protest, so they did.

Whether their protest is justified by facts is another question.

I thought an English-speaking community was familiar with the basic idea of "agree to disagree". If not, what right would you have to complain about anything in Thailand?

micmichd, what on earth are you on about ?

For a start, do you think it's good for Thailand when such anti-American demonstrations take place ? Do you reckon that people from America, Britain and Australia reckon it's good that such anti-American demonstrations take place ?

You want to talk about the idea of "agree to disgree" ? How about you talk about "consistency" when applying the law ? You do know, right, that it is against the law to have any demonstrations in Thailand ? Does that give you a problem ? You can go home to whatever country you're from IF this gives you a problem.

And NO, it doesn't give me a problem when all demonstrations in Thailand are banned. I'm just trying to say, that all demonstrations are actually banned in Thailand. Hence, this should be banned. It is, afer all, a demonstration.

You reckon I'm talking BS ? Are you talking BS ?

I acknowledge this demonstration actually violates Thai laws, yet the NCPO let it happen. I could imagine good reasons why. To get a better position in further negotiations with USA, eg.

Whether I personally like all Thai laws is of no public interest. I comply with Thai laws, because I like the country. I also accept there's diplomatic policy going on "behind the walls", and we might never know everything.

I know quite a bit about international politics, and I know the Western way of thinking. And I believe in development and change, where change might include some conflicts. Some might be solved to the advantage of both Thailand and the West. It is those issues I'm after. More specifically, TPP and social politics (health politics)

You might call this BS, but I believe in life, and that's where my considerations start.

I can also see the limits of consistency.

Like, if a man is worshipped as a God, and then he says in public it would be an insult to him not to treat him like a human being. Wise men like this are rare in this world, very rare.

[selftaopath]

Lupatria, on 28 Nov 2015 - 09:51, said:

It is time to ban monks from any political activities.

I think the military should also be banned from all political activities in LOS. If so,'democracy' might stand a remote chance of surviving more than a few years before the next coup.

Democracy in Thailand? How can there ever be Democracy when there is total corruption and no Rule of Law?

Re: decreased corruption and rule of law I'd say Thailand is a lost cause.

[Martyjustice]

Go home, but leave all the US $$ here. Thailand what a place. It would be great except for the Thainess.

[sirineou]

I notice that many people responding to this issue know little about it or Thailand let alone the USA. Maybe if you plan to continue to live here you should go back to school. The following article from the Bangkok Post today seems to clear some of the issues.

Mr Davies was hardly the first or the most critical of the law. The United Nations, the European Union and NGOs involved in human rights investigations have previously harshly assailed the heavier sentencing. In several cases in the past two months, lese majeste defendants have been convicted of multiple offences, and have received longer prison sentences than murderers.

Foreign diplomats and friends, just like Thais, realise the necessity of a lese majeste law. The US ambassador was both narrow and clear in his speech. He said the US government is “concerned by the lengthy and unprecedented prison sentences handed down by Thai military courts against civilians for violating the lese majeste law”.

For the UN, EU and NGO's you did not see the Thai rent a mob demonstrating in front of thier offices. This is truly meant to notify them and others that Thailand is going back to being a Chinese step child. Note there has never been a demonstration in front of the Chinese Embassy.

very good post and right on the money

Don't worry if the US found a cure for Cancer , the US penis envy brigade, will complain that it would cause overpopulation

[micmichd]

How can you say there's no rule of law?

"Law" is not a one-dimensional thing. "Positive law" is, and it can become very arbitrary if there's no human rights behind it. German Holocaust was completely legal after positive law, eg.

Lots of posters here complain about "corruption" when in fact they mean fees and fines. You should come up with a clear definition before you complain about "corruption". Then look at your home country first and check how you get justice for free (without money) there. Following your whinings and applying them to the West, I could give you hundreds of examples where you have to pay far higher fees in advance - and maybe get nothing in return. Is that a better system?

[tom21]

I wonder what would happen if the demonstration was to have a republic with an elected government. but I have to agree, usa should mind there own business

[digibum]

What's wrong with those people ?? All the that ambassador said was " nobody should be jailed for his/her opinion".

Those demonstrating at the US embassy are basically saying " we like to be supressed". TIT.

Actually, I think you have it all wrong. Those protesting are basically saying, "Don't get involved in our suppression." Whenever another country (usually the US) comments about these laws, notice the people who react the most violently.

You didn't see 10,000 farmers protesting in front of the embassy. What you saw was a demonstration paid for by people who have a vested interest in being able to control what people say.

[dageurreotype]

So we British can blame a yank for the mess Thailand has and is continuing to be in now. Had Thailand been ceded to Great Britain, they would have had competent Justice and Education systems by now. And decent beer

[2fishin2]

Why the US always needs to open their mouth and start interfering in local affairs of other countries? How many more civil wars do they want to create?

Perhaps you should keep your mouth shut! How many countries rely on the U.S. For assistance? Perhaps yours!

Normally, I'm not so aggressive with my words or postings but this nonsense is "crossing the line." You apparently feel free here, post a negativity remark about an entity in Thailand. Show that you have more than a mouth.

You're so right, 'PhDEducation, to give the ignorants who don't agree with you a clear example of the U.S.' generosity, what would have become of this country when the US of A in all its kindnesss (in its paranoiac fright of anything pink or red?) would not have strongly pushed Thailand to 'so very gently invite' (definitely NOT) the Thai students and the socialists, anyone close or related (not to speak about the communists), to happily die by whole flocks, to choose to be tortured and brutalised, to enjoy spending time in awfull dark prisons, to want to wander out to the other, deserted, side of the country?

Thank you, our saviours, the U.S.of A. thank you so much, ...and especially your C.I.A., for saving Thailand!

(From what?)

You are right the US sucks. China, Russia or Syria would be much better world leaders.

[Usernames]

Making Thailand part of the British Empire? It would have served both of them right.

[dageurreotype]

Making Thailand part of the British Empire? It would have served both of them right.

You may scoff, but as lovely as Thailand is, pause for a moment and imagine how much better it would be with law enforcement and their children actually having a good education. Not to mention a proper democracy. One not run by the country's military and their monarch as 'head of state'. Not an excuse consistently used to subjugate it's populace.

[SiSePuede419]

U.S. out of North America! --562 Federally Recognized tribes

Imagine that! America is more culturally diverse than any country in Asia, or Europe, but acknowledges very little...

[skildpadden]

"You have no right and no power...we are not slaves of the US." No, but you are indeed bending over backwards for China. USA still provides you with aid, China does not give anything for free.

Anyways if you don't want the US interest here simply stop buying US products: don't go to KFC, McD or Krispy Kreme. Don't drink Coke or Pepsi. Stop driving your Ford pick up trucks. Then the US would close shops and move.

"Next time don't send anyone to talk about trade with me then". Next time don't act so surprised that investments have moved elsewhere in the region.

[mrrizzla]

Interesting about Betty McKenzie. I never knew that. I wonder if that gormless rent-a-mob knew about her too? (Probably not as they are quite ignorant to a lot of their own history).

Although some of the posts condoning colonialism have to think a bit more about what they are saying. Malaysia was a former colony and their have been massive anti-corruption demonstrations there recently, so it's not all rosy. I guess the difference is that people can protest there regardless of what 'team' they are on

[mike324]

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so, not only that they help protect Thailand from threats and stability of the country.

So you think it OK for the US to behave like Thaksin and buy their popularity so that they can rape and pillage the Thai economy by American businesses in the same way Thaksin did for himself?

Who says US is behaving like Thaksin and pillage the Thai Economy, please explain. How many American businesses here are effecting the Thais? Please explain again, I don't see how Thais are suffering.

[Usernames]

Making Thailand part of the British Empire? It would have served both of them right.

You may scoff, but as lovely as Thailand is, pause for a moment and imagine how much better it would be with law enforcement and their children actually having a good education. Not to mention a proper democracy. One not run by the country's military and their monarch as 'head of state'. Not an excuse consistently used to subjugate it's populace.

Like Burma?

[mike324]

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so, not only that they help protect Thailand from threats and stability of the country.

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so...

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't have any idea either.

Posters in TV are rarely interested in tracking down facts to buttress their arguments. If you had googled, you would have discovered that in 2015 the US allocated a whopping $11 million dollars in aid to Thailand, which, given the size of the US economy, is about the equivalent of tossing a penny. Djibouti and Cape Verde received more, at $13 million and $14 million, respectively.

(Although some aid from various quarters of the US bureaucracy is unavailable, the $11 million figure is the best available data.)

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/politics/aid/140811/charts-us-foreign-aid-requests-2015

The US state department breaks down foreign aid into categories. None of the Thailand aid was in the "democracy, human rights and governance" category. Rather, all the aid was in the "peace and security" category. The largest part of the aid went for "stabilization operations and security sector reform". Obviously this is intended as anti-terrorism money.

Despite the fond delusions of many US citizens (often expressed in this forum), a huge amount of US aid has the purpose of increasing economic gains for the donor. In many cases, the aid is immediately turned around as purchases from US corporations.

Since the 1950s, the US has spent hundred of millions in building up Thailands infrastructure. Although its mostly for their own military security purposes, you can't deny Thailand did not benefited much from it too. Roads and U-Tapao airport to name a few. Development assistance, and military aid has pretty much stopped due to the coup back in around 2006. Nonetheless its not just money that the US has contributed, its also intelligence.

Given that Thailand is considered as a developed country and located in a peaceful region, they no longer receives aids in the category of human/health/relief etc development. The US declare Thailand no longer needing aid in this category back in the mid 90s hence the closure of USAID offices back in the 90s.

I'm not even an US citizen, I'm not saying how great the US is etc etc. I'm just trying to make a point that many Thais don't realize the importance of having the US as an ally and contributions they made in the past.

[mike324]

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so, not only that they help protect Thailand from threats and stability of the country.

Clearly neither do you. How much money do you think the US is giving to a government that overthrew a democratically elected one?

Pretty much none due to the coup and a general running the country that goes against the US's policies, hence the aid money has stopped. But can't overlook the contributions the US contributed in the past.

But the US's policies are a funny thing, they often armed terrorists that turns back on them too.

[micmichd]

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so, not only that they help protect Thailand from threats and stability of the country.

Clearly neither do you. How much money do you think the US is giving to a government that overthrew a democratically elected one?

Pretty much none due to the coup and a general running the country that goes against the US's policies, hence the aid money has stopped. But can't overlook the contributions the US contributed in the past.

But the US's policies are a funny thing, they often armed terrorists that turns back on them too.

Guess why.

USA don't give any aid away without benefit for the USA. And often enough, the poorer part of the receiving population doesn't get any benefits at all, just the burden of USAID.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Lupatria, on 28 Nov 2015 - 09:51, said:

It is time to ban monks from any political activities.

I think the military should also be banned from all political activities in LOS. If so,'democracy' might stand a remote chance of surviving more than a few years before the next coup.

Democracy in Thailand? How can there ever be Democracy when there is total corruption and no Rule of Law?

Re: decreased corruption and rule of law I'd say Thailand is a lost cause.

Perhaps it's time for you to go 'home'.

[ParadiseLost]

Interesting about Betty McKenzie. I never knew that. I wonder if that gormless rent-a-mob knew about her too? (Probably not as they are quite ignorant to a lot of their own history).

Although some of the posts condoning colonialism have to think a bit more about what they are saying. Malaysia was a former colony and their have been massive anti-corruption demonstrations there recently, so it's not all rosy. I guess the difference is that people can protest there regardless of what 'team' they are on

Just so long as it does not involve sodomy...

[EyesWideOpen]

Making Thailand part of the British Empire? It would have served both of them right.

You may scoff, but as lovely as Thailand is, pause for a moment and imagine how much better it would be with law enforcement and their children actually having a good education. Not to mention a proper democracy. One not run by the country's military and their monarch as 'head of state'. Not an excuse consistently used to subjugate it's populace.

Good point. Pretty cool to imagine Thailand with rule of law and an actual democracy.

So would be the same wonderful beaches, same beautiful girls, but without the

endless succession of corrupt politicians intent on looting the country.... And policemen

actually enforcing the law instead of lining their pockets .

Ah, one can only dream.....

Edited November 30, 2015 by EyesWideOpen

[mike324]

These idiots have no idea how much aid money US gave Thailand and continues to do so, not only that they help protect Thailand from threats and stability of the country.

Clearly neither do you. How much money do you think the US is giving to a government that overthrew a democratically elected one?

Pretty much none due to the coup and a general running the country that goes against the US's policies, hence the aid money has stopped. But can't overlook the contributions the US contributed in the past.

But the US's policies are a funny thing, they often armed terrorists that turns back on them too.

Guess why.

USA don't give any aid away without benefit for the USA. And often enough, the poorer part of the receiving population doesn't get any benefits at all, just the burden of USAID.

Perhaps the poorer of the don't really benefit much, what are some of the burdens of USAID, would like to know more about it.

Thailand also stopped receiving aid in the form of no taxes for goods sent to the EU as of last year, as EU no longer classifies Thailand as a developing country.

[Blackfish64]

So, let me get this straight... a US ambassador encourages Thais to speak out, to exercise their property, their absolute right to free speech--and the Thai tell him to go <deleted> himself?
Ambassador needs to be careful what he wishes for? Or do the Thai not understand this?

The US has laws to protect the president, do they? From assault, yes, of course, just as US has laws to protect any citizen from assault--but not from speech. In fact it is the other way around with speech. We have the 1st Amendment, the highest law of our land, which protects the people from the president should the need arise to say detrimental things about him, which we do, of course, incessantly, because he is in fact the worst president, barre none, we have ever had.

[Jools]

Over the top, but American meddling IS a problem here. Banks are not happy about the regulations imposed on them. Envoys NEVER complain about things that SHOULD be fixed, only the items they can bully other countries into changing.

[SiSePuede419]

Over the top, but American meddling IS a problem here. Banks are not happy about the regulations imposed on them. Envoys NEVER complain about things that SHOULD be fixed, only the items they can bully other countries into changing.

Boohoohoo. Bankers are not happy about regulations, 555.

These are people who produce no product, nor have ever done so.

Why do we care if Bankers are happy or not?

What a load of &lt;deleted&gt;

[JimGant]

should the need arise to say detrimental things about him, which we do, of course, incessantly, because he is in fact the worst president, barre none, we have ever had.

Yeah, we're free to incessantly bad mouth Obama -- who, somehow, has gotten the economy solidly back on track; who has gotten our troops back from misadventures in the Mid East -- and has prevented any further insertions of US troops in lieu of local troops to fight their sunni/shia civil war(s). How many lives, lost arms and legs, and mental abnormalities has he prevented?

Yeah, it's refreshing, as a US citizen, that I can freely see all the dialogue, bizarre as it may be, that provides information upon which to make my voting decision. Sadly, however, it's also bizarre that, due to universal suffrage, so many kooks also have the vote.

This is a different part of the world. Malaysia is currently restricting unlimited speech via its 1948 era British anti-sedition laws. Thailand, too, has to weigh the sedition aspect on its approach to free speech. And the US, accordingly, should just butt out, if it just doesn't understand the local rules. There's really nothing universal about the rules of free speech.