TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extensions.

[soalbundy]

They seem to have gone communist <deleted>

[bangon04]

So I now have Yet Another slip stapled into my passport.

Note: No mention of a TM30 (which actually wouldn't be my responsibility I suppose, although the TM28 is done at the same desk with the House Master-Owner-something sign). But for reference, the TM30 record for my arrival should have been in their system.

Absolutely bonkers.. Given thats the stumbling block that took me half an hour..

I just wanted to file a TM28 and be done.. But they resisted it for ages.. You walk in, and your out in 4 mins.

Thanks for paving the way / parting the seas for me.

And again though, it could just be that they found the matching TM30 record.

Now we need a volunteer to go in for a TM28 without TM30 for their location/arrival.. Anyone?

Thinking about it more, and how there is no check where you actually live, you could just check into any hotel or guesthouse for a day, let them process the TM30 and then do a TM28 for that location. Will also result in the TM28 slip in your passport, which seems all they would ever look for.

It's all a little... pointless. But then that wouldn't be the first thing that's pointless when it comes to local bureaucracy.

The OP and the rest of the thread seems to confirm that fines are being imposed as part of a "crackdown" on alien long term residents, and that they will catch you out when you have to do your 90 day report or other extensions.

However, if the whole point of the exercise is not simply to generate huge piles of extra pieces of paper which may or may not be processed in a timely manner in the great Thai computer system, but actually to keep a track of all aliens and their non-hotel addresses in Thailand, then it seems that the vast majority of short term visitors, illegals, non-residents and tourists who prefer to sleep on friends' floors, will be overlooked.

Or are the authorities assuming that any would-be terrorist or ill-meaning visitor to Thailand will immediately rush to Immigration to fill in their nice forms??

[steve73]

As I understand it, you have to submit a fresh TM28 every time you stay at an address in a new province for more than 24 hours. (We'll assume any hotels where you stay will submit the TM30 efficiently).

But if you're touring around, and not staying more than one night, you're unlikely to be in such address for more than 24 hours, so you never actually need to submit a TM28 (in fact if you're touring, it'd be a right PITA to have to keep finding the local immigration office (or even a police station). But when you get back home you would need to submit a new TM28 to your local immigration office (or local police station) within 24 hours, and, I assume, your owner/landlord/wife/whatever a corresponding new TM30.

If you stay with friends or family and they conveniently "forget" to submit a TM30 for you, you need not resubmit a fresh TM28 (and TM30) on your return home.

Also, can anyone clarify when immigration is not considered "local", and a police station would suffice (would local police boxes be suitable)... It's possible for those of us with own transport, but in many cases it's just not possible to get to an immigration office within 24 hours. And what if it's a weekend...?

These procedures appear to be required (strictly to the law) for any aliens (not just those on extensions). If all the tourists & backpakers were to do this, immigration would be totally swamped with paperwork.

Maybe we should all try to do it correctly for a few days and see how they react when the system gets overloaded...

[bazza40]

I have to congratulate the OP on his amazing memory, would hate to get on his wrong side as his eye for detail would shut down any attempt at rebuttal.

Now I need a nice cup of tea, a Bex, and a good lie down.

[ThaiPauly]

So let me get this right.

I have a TM30 in my passport. In a few weeks I will travel to Koh Chang, presumably the hotel will file a TM30 on my behalf, then I am going to stay with my son in BK for a week.

So does my daughter-in-law have to file that we are staying there and does my wife have to file a fresh TM30 when we return to Chiang Mai?

If this is the case then I am completely dumbstruck, that is not what the IO told my wife when she filed the TM30, she only needs to file when I return from a trip abroad!!

[Sparkles]

OK.... so my wife went to Imm this morning and got me a nice new TM30. APPARENTLY (they said to her) that you need a new one every time you leave the country OR STAY IN ANOTHER PROVINCE! She was also told that she (houseowner) didn't need a TM28, just a copy of my TM 30 will do for her too. Every time you leave the country or register in a Thai hotel/guesthouse in another province where they should be reporting you, you need a new TM30 when you get back to Chiang Mai... within 24 hours!

That makes life easier I guess!!! (NOT)

They will be coordinating it all on a central database and fining the non compliers!

Well, that's what they're saying today anyway!

Well we went to Promenada today, my wife armed with the filled out TM 30 form, and 2,000 baht in her back pocket if needed.We were last out of the country 2 years ago.

I was standing next to her she asked the guy at the front door for a ticket. He noted she also had my yellow book in her hand.He asked were we married? (yes)

Was that my yellow book(yes)Did we own our house(yes showed my name on the chanote and leas, then he said you are already IN THE SYSTEM you don't need to apply.

I cant make any sense of what has been reported,what the intention is, apart from raising revenure or why there are so many different stories

ie total ,for me,confusion.

We are going to Petchabun shortly to see my wifes family, so unless I am wearing an ankle bracelet how would they ever know ?

Maybe we will wake up tomorrow and it was all a bad dream.

[cmsally]

I think I have the answer! If you go anywhere just sleep in your car !

You left home in your car and returned in it. You haven't spent the night anywhere else.

[MadMac]

Was that my yellow book(yes)Did we own our house(yes showed my name on the chanote and leas, then he said you are already IN THE SYSTEM you don't need to apply.

With a yellow tabien baan you have a 13 digits Thai registration number. You are in the system. Another reason to get one. But another immigration guy somewhere else will still tell you the complete opposite.

Edited December 2, 2015 by MadMac

[tigermonkey]

Just spoke to my partner regarding this. A couple of days ago the immigration came to my ( my partners) house to check up on my address ( visa under consideration) The official explained TM28/30 to her but said this tsunami hadn't reached them yet,however when i get my visa stamp on the 21st December this will get done. Whatever, i'm still not going through this bullshit every time we go go out of the province, as long as the hotels prefer to use my partners ID to book the room that's fine by me. If i stay at a friends house for 3 or 4 days how on earth will they know about it unless i tell them. Was it Orwell who said ''beware of the beginning's''

You completely fail to recognize the implications of what you are seeing. A number of years ago, I lived and worked in Russia, in the city of Ryazan, south of Moscow; The Thai system, as detailled in the laws and regulations, is strikingly similar to the Russian system at that time. One of the big differences is that in Russia, you had to report to the local police station, within 24 hours of arrival.

Some time after getting settled in, I decided to take a lovely young lady to Saint Petersburg for the weekend. We arrived by train and then off to a charming hotel. Upon awakening in the morning, she asked when we were going to the police station. Having experience a wait of 3 hours in Ryazan to register, I boldly proclaimed I was not going !

On Sunday morning, we were sight seeing when a police man asked to see our ID. She handed him her ID with a few Rubles - he smiled and handed the ID back to her. Then when I handed him my passport, he moved a distance away and talked on his radio. When back, : he said " You live in RYazan. Where is your registration for Sankt Petersburg ?". Whereupon, I was made to pay a large fine, and then taken to the police station to register - end of sightseeing !

We took the late train back to Ryazan, I was still upset very late Monday night when there was a knock on my apartment door. Police ! " Show me your passport " . I showed it and was told " you haven't registered your return to Ryazan". Once again a large fine which once again disappeared into a pocket of the uniform. So then down to the police station to register - I got to bed at 5:00 AM - that's the other difference with Thailand. All Russians had to do this also - big queues and lots of bribes.

You really want to go through all this.? I know Russian police are much better at it than RTP -- but even so .

[LivinLOS]

Was that my yellow book(yes)Did we own our house(yes showed my name on the chanote and leas, then he said you are already IN THE SYSTEM you don't need to apply.

I cant make any sense of what has been reported,what the intention is, apart from raising revenure or why there are so many different stories

ie total ,for me,confusion.

Capt Possorn at the airport office told me the exact opposite.. Yellow house book was no substitute for TM28 I needed to do..

I or my wife does not own the home I live in.. I really tried to keep it as focused on a rental tenant and not bring my wife into it, given the person I know who was fined may have been fined for something his wife should have done.

[cmsally]

Just spoke to my partner regarding this. A couple of days ago the immigration came to my ( my partners) house to check up on my address ( visa under consideration) The official explained TM28/30 to her but said this tsunami hadn't reached them yet,however when i get my visa stamp on the 21st December this will get done. Whatever, i'm still not going through this bullshit every time we go go out of the province, as long as the hotels prefer to use my partners ID to book the room that's fine by me. If i stay at a friends house for 3 or 4 days how on earth will they know about it unless i tell them. Was it Orwell who said ''beware of the beginning's''

You completely fail to recognize the implications of what you are seeing. A number of years ago, I lived and worked in Russia, in the city of Ryazan, south of Moscow; The Thai system, as detailled in the laws and regulations, is strikingly similar to the Russian system at that time. One of the big differences is that in Russia, you had to report to the local police station, within 24 hours of arrival.

Some time after getting settled in, I decided to take a lovely young lady to Saint Petersburg for the weekend. We arrived by train and then off to a charming hotel. Upon awakening in the morning, she asked when we were going to the police station. Having experience a wait of 3 hours in Ryazan to register, I boldly proclaimed I was not going !

On Sunday morning, we were sight seeing when a police man asked to see our ID. She handed him her ID with a few Rubles - he smiled and handed the ID back to her. Then when I handed him my passport, he moved a distance away and talked on his radio. When back, : he said " You live in RYazan. Where is your registration for Sankt Petersburg ?". Whereupon, I was made to pay a large fine, and then taken to the police station to register - end of sightseeing !

We took the late train back to Ryazan, I was still upset very late Monday night when there was a knock on my apartment door. Police ! " Show me your passport " . I showed it and was told " you haven't registered your return to Ryazan". Once again a large fine which once again disappeared into a pocket of the uniform. So then down to the police station to register - I got to bed at 5:00 AM - that's the other difference with Thailand. All Russians had to do this also - big queues and lots of bribes.

You really want to go through all this.? I know Russian police are much better at it than RTP -- but even so .

I would agree with you on this , the whole thing is very reminiscent of the Soviet Union and other places in Eastern Europe when under Communist rule.

[Trujillo]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

[cmsally]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

[LivinLOS]

Just spoke to my partner regarding this. A couple of days ago the immigration came to my ( my partners) house to check up on my address ( visa under consideration) The official explained TM28/30 to her but said this tsunami hadn't reached them yet,however when i get my visa stamp on the 21st December this will get done. Whatever, i'm still not going through this bullshit every time we go go out of the province, as long as the hotels prefer to use my partners ID to book the room that's fine by me. If i stay at a friends house for 3 or 4 days how on earth will they know about it unless i tell them. Was it Orwell who said ''beware of the beginning's''

You completely fail to recognize the implications of what you are seeing. A number of years ago, I lived and worked in Russia, in the city of Ryazan, south of Moscow; The Thai system, as detailled in the laws and regulations, is strikingly similar to the Russian system at that time. One of the big differences is that in Russia, you had to report to the local police station, within 24 hours of arrival.

Some time after getting settled in, I decided to take a lovely young lady to Saint Petersburg for the weekend. We arrived by train and then off to a charming hotel. Upon awakening in the morning, she asked when we were going to the police station. Having experience a wait of 3 hours in Ryazan to register, I boldly proclaimed I was not going !

On Sunday morning, we were sight seeing when a police man asked to see our ID. She handed him her ID with a few Rubles - he smiled and handed the ID back to her. Then when I handed him my passport, he moved a distance away and talked on his radio. When back, : he said " You live in RYazan. Where is your registration for Sankt Petersburg ?". Whereupon, I was made to pay a large fine, and then taken to the police station to register - end of sightseeing !

We took the late train back to Ryazan, I was still upset very late Monday night when there was a knock on my apartment door. Police ! " Show me your passport " . I showed it and was told " you haven't registered your return to Ryazan". Once again a large fine which once again disappeared into a pocket of the uniform. So then down to the police station to register - I got to bed at 5:00 AM - that's the other difference with Thailand. All Russians had to do this also - big queues and lots of bribes.

You really want to go through all this.? I know Russian police are much better at it than RTP -- but even so .

I would agree with you on this , the whole thing is very reminiscent of the Soviet Union and other places in Eastern Europe when under Communist rule.

Sadly I can guess how a top down directive from a security minded general after the bangkok bombings (we need to know where these people are or were staying.. tell immigration to enforce that old law) could turn into a total unwelcoming police control system..

Its hard to have both freedom and control, and I think it would be crazy to think that the current mob in charge lean to the side of freedoms.

[nidieunimaitre]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

If the immigration officer is in a particular vile mood, or if he is thirsty for tea, he could make a phone call... Then what?

[tigermonkey]

Just spoke to my partner regarding this. A couple of days ago the immigration came to my ( my partners) house to check up on my address ( visa under consideration) The official explained TM28/30 to her but said this tsunami hadn't reached them yet,however when i get my visa stamp on the 21st December this will get done. Whatever, i'm still not going through this bullshit every time we go go out of the province, as long as the hotels prefer to use my partners ID to book the room that's fine by me. If i stay at a friends house for 3 or 4 days how on earth will they know about it unless i tell them. Was it Orwell who said ''beware of the beginning's''

You completely fail to recognize the implications of what you are seeing. A number of years ago, I lived and worked in Russia, in the city of Ryazan, south of Moscow; The Thai system, as detailled in the laws and regulations, is strikingly similar to the Russian system at that time. One of the big differences is that in Russia, you had to report to the local police station, within 24 hours of arrival.

Some time after getting settled in, I decided to take a lovely young lady to Saint Petersburg for the weekend. We arrived by train and then off to a charming hotel. Upon awakening in the morning, she asked when we were going to the police station. Having experience a wait of 3 hours in Ryazan to register, I boldly proclaimed I was not going !

On Sunday morning, we were sight seeing when a police man asked to see our ID. She handed him her ID with a few Rubles - he smiled and handed the ID back to her. Then when I handed him my passport, he moved a distance away and talked on his radio. When back, : he said " You live in RYazan. Where is your registration for Sankt Petersburg ?". Whereupon, I was made to pay a large fine, and then taken to the police station to register - end of sightseeing !

We took the late train back to Ryazan, I was still upset very late Monday night when there was a knock on my apartment door. Police ! " Show me your passport " . I showed it and was told " you haven't registered your return to Ryazan". Once again a large fine which once again disappeared into a pocket of the uniform. So then down to the police station to register - I got to bed at 5:00 AM - that's the other difference with Thailand. All Russians had to do this also - big queues and lots of bribes.

You really want to go through all this.? I know Russian police are much better at it than RTP -- but even so .

I would agree with you on this , the whole thing is very reminiscent of the Soviet Union and other places in Eastern Europe when under Communist rule.

Yes, this system was designed during the Soviet era. However, my experience with it was post Soviet era. A system that was perpetuated both due to its corrupt income potential income and a tradition of intrusive control.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

That does cover it yes. Although they can easily check any past TM30 reports made for you on your current stay in the country. They should all pop right up when doing a search for your departure card number.

Just that the length of stay is not included in the TM30 report.. so they have no way of knowing how long you stayed at any of the locations they have information for.

[nidieunimaitre]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

That does cover it yes. Although they can easily check any past TM30 reports made for you on your current stay in the country. They should all pop right up when doing a search for your departure card number.

Just that the length of stay is not included in the TM30 report.. so they have no way of knowing how long you stayed at any of the locations they have information for.

There is a flaw in this cunning deceit, dear Baldwin.

If you claim you just arrived from ABC, where you stayed at hotel X, they could phone hotel X and ask how long you stayed.

[LivinLOS]

So even if you submit a TM28 or TM30 and you are not within the "24 hours" you will get fined, right? So the next time I go for me extension, no matter I have the documents, I will get fined, is that right?

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

That does cover it yes. Although they can easily check any past TM30 reports made for you on your current stay in the country. They should all pop right up when doing a search for your departure card number.

Just that the length of stay is not included in the TM30 report.. so they have no way of knowing how long you stayed at any of the locations they have information for.

There is a flaw in this cunning deceit, dear Baldwin.

If you claim you just arrived from ABC, where you stayed at hotel X, they could phone hotel X and ask how long you stayed.

Think on your feet... I spent 3 nights camping at the national park camp site in xxxxx

Cunning as a fox who's just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University Balders..

[nidieunimaitre]

And you have a receipt for filing a TM at the police station nearest to that park?

I am not arguing with you LOS, only pointing out the risks of trying to outsmarten an officer that wants to frame you.

I am afraid we are at the mercy of the bureau©rats. Even if only 1% of us get fined, that would be unacceptable.

[LivinLOS]

The police didnt understand..

Which wont be in any way not unusual as the front desk staff in the office were utterly clueless..

Anyway, I have done my TM28.. I dont give a hoot about my landlords reporting.. And I will take care not to generate TM30s at hotels. Any attempted fining given that compliance will be met with firm refusal.

[LivinLOS]

Anyway, all it will take for this system to crumble and fail, is for everyone to start doing it..

Every farang, reporting every movement, and then every return ?? And each one of those generating a fine for a Thai not also doing the same workload..

[fcgprg]

Was that my yellow book(yes)Did we own our house(yes showed my name on the chanote and leas, then he said you are already IN THE SYSTEM you don't need to apply.

With a yellow tabien baan you have a 13 digits Thai registration number. You are in the system. Another reason to get one. But another immigration guy somewhere else will still tell you the complete opposite.

With the yellow book as I see it with the 13 digit Thai ID number you must be in the system. Which could easily be found by immigration looking up your ID number on the system.

[mania]

For those who have gotten their yearly extensions based on marriage this does not make much sense....(although things many times make no sense here)

But for folks like myself years ago on my first yearly extension based on marriage Immigration ( who are a branch of the Thai Police correct?) did either an interview

of a landlord/condo management etc. to verify you lived where you said you did or many times they would just do a visit of the applicants home to see that they were

both living there & married.

So now years later if one has not moved why would this change? Not to mention the map to our homes we are required to provide with each yearly extension.

Or the registered mail address provided for each 90 day check etc etc

In any case just finished yearly ext & then a month later 90 day no questions & will leave it at that.

Perhaps we are "already in the system?" ...who knows....Not something I will be running down to double check though

I do not agree with the all it takes is everyone to knuckle under method of crumbling this because that never happens & many do not read/know of such changes here etc.

Instead quite the opposite will occur when they see your willingness to touch your toes & spell run

Edited December 3, 2015 by mania

[kimchibob]

Just did a 90 day report yesterday in Jomtien. There was no mention of a TM28 or TM30. In fact, they did not even ask for a TM47. They just scanned the barcode from last report in the back of my passport, entered the number and date from the TM6 into their computer, stapled a new report in my passport, and I was on my way. Next report date is 29 Feb 2016.

[LivinLOS]

Was that my yellow book(yes)Did we own our house(yes showed my name on the chanote and leas, then he said you are already IN THE SYSTEM you don't need to apply.

With a yellow tabien baan you have a 13 digits Thai registration number. You are in the system. Another reason to get one. But another immigration guy somewhere else will still tell you the complete opposite.

With the yellow book as I see it with the 13 digit Thai ID number you must be in the system. Which could easily be found by immigration looking up your ID number on the system.

You speak of 'the system' as tho everything is one cohesive integrated linked up system..

When in Thailand have you ever known that to be the case ??

[WinnieTheKhwai]

If I understand correctly you just say you arrived back from Lampang or wherever last night. That should cover it ? You should be issued with a new one every time you arrive in a new place. There is no way they can check all the previous ones.

That does cover it yes. Although they can easily check any past TM30 reports made for you on your current stay in the country. They should all pop right up when doing a search for your departure card number.

Just that the length of stay is not included in the TM30 report.. so they have no way of knowing how long you stayed at any of the locations they have information for.

There is a flaw in this cunning deceit, dear Baldwin.

If you claim you just arrived from ABC, where you stayed at hotel X, they could phone hotel X and ask how long you stayed.

They could, if any of this information actually mattered to them.

In practice though this is a turd that got shoved in their faces by the junta. They're passively going through the ropes and generate yet more paper with as little effort or care as possible. A lot of paper, little information.

Sure they could check on one person if they wanted to and/or if you give them reason. But they cannot do it for a million foreigners in Thailand at any given time.

More often than not it doesn't need to be bullet proof, it just needs to be plausible.

[sandyf]

Just spoke to my partner regarding this. A couple of days ago the immigration came to my ( my partners) house to check up on my address ( visa under consideration) The official explained TM28/30 to her but said this tsunami hadn't reached them yet,however when i get my visa stamp on the 21st December this will get done. Whatever, i'm still not going through this bullshit every time we go go out of the province, as long as the hotels prefer to use my partners ID to book the room that's fine by me. If i stay at a friends house for 3 or 4 days how on earth will they know about it unless i tell them. Was it Orwell who said ''beware of the beginning's''

That sounds sensible and doable. As long as the Hotels aren't specifically required to register all aliens regardless of the person who's name is being used to check in.

At the moment it is more don't than do. Every time we go away my wife books and pays for hotels through her Agoda account. As the booking is in her name she checks in and it has only been on the odd occasion they have asked for my passport.

We went to Laos in Aug and I did an online 90 day report in Oct without a problem. My last TM30 was done in July before I went to Laos so obviously being out of country doesn't affect the online 90 day processing.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Anyway, I have done my TM28.. I dont give a hoot about my landlords reporting.. And I will take care not to generate TM30s at hotels. Any attempted fining given that compliance will be met with firm refusal.

Resisting handing over ID when checking into a hotel sounds like a great way to get flagged to immigration/police to come talk to you.

Versus absolutely no downside to just providing ID and let them run the TM30. It's their responsibility anyway, why does it even matter to you if they do it or don't do it?

I just don't see the point. (Other than when checking into a hotel in a place where I really shouldn't be, and then my wife finding out because privacy doesn't exist in this country. I bet if my wife showed up at Immigration they'd readily give her a list of any hotel I ever checked into, from the Four Seasons all the way to the Naughty Inn in Soi Bua Khao.. )

Edited December 3, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[soalbundy]

Well i am probably a bit thick, i am still confused. My partner owns our house, i have a yellow book. Lets say we want to travel to Chiang Mai from Surin, my Partner has to supply the immigration with a TM 30 to say the farang is leaving the province, in Chiang Mai the hotel makes out a TM 30 online,when we get back my missus has to file another TM 30 to say we are back and i have to file a new TM 28 is that correct ?