Smoke, Smog, Dust 2016-2017 Chiang Mai

[TheScribe]

Info coming back for some stations now.  

 

[Ned]

 

The official No Burning season is supposed to start on Feb 20........but I've also heard March 1. Burners are hurrying to get the job done before then.....or so the story goes. Lookiing forward  to Feb20 to see if anything changes. Any optimists out there in Chiangmailand?

 

 

[Berkshire]

4 minutes ago, Ned said:

 

The official No Burning season is supposed to start on Feb 20........but I've also heard March 1. Burners are hurrying to get the job done before then.....or so the story goes. Lookiing forward  to Feb20 to see if anything changes. Any optimists out there in Chiangmailand?

 

 

I'm certainly optimistic....but also realistic.  Hopefully things will improve, if even a little bit.

[ogb]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I'm certainly optimistic....but also realistic.  Hopefully things will improve, if even a little bit.

They haven't even started on the forests yet :)

[scotbeve]

Just flew in yesterday. On the plane about 5 minutes before landing in daylight a large agricultural burn could be seen.
Huge smoke, open flames.
 
One would figure the Army would go arrest the burners.

If you look on the west side of Route 107, often enough, you see the boys in green doing large burnoffs annually. No doubt this year will be in the tradition.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CheGuava]

Yes, Bangkok is worse than Chiang Mai currently.

 

And Chiang Mai air will improve considerably (averages out of the red) by mid-April, about 2 months from now.

 

In between that time there will be some bad spells, some okay-ish spells, and some VERY bad spells.

 

18 hours ago, Ned said:

The official No Burning season is supposed to start on Feb 20........but I've also heard March 1. Burners are hurrying to get the job done before then.....or so the story goes. Lookiing forward  to Feb20 to see if anything changes. Any optimists out there in Chiangmailand?

 

 

I think you mean burning ban?  It starts 1 March this year. 

 

And a burning ban does look like it has positive effects. They've only had it for the last two years though, and all kinds of things have an impact so it's hard to say for sure.  (Correlation does not imply causation) 

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by CheGuava

[scotbeve]

Though the Unhealthy bar has been raised (again) most schools have "indoors sport day" on days like these.... I was watching the Thai news the other day .... Chiang Mai was worse than Bangkok except for Din Daeng roadside BUT Chiang Mai was not mentioned. Many expats that have been here a while know of news blackouts for one event or another and the message "someone" might be trying to get across to Joe Public.

Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk

[XGM]

Just wait for the rains and then declare a burning ban.

Success guaranteed.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

^  Burning ban starts March 1st. 

 

Daily AQI averages are out of the red by mid April.

 

Regularly scheduled rain begins in May or so.

[sletraveler]

I ordered  this for 200.00 usd and hopefully it works well.

Now Xiaomi Mi Air Purifier 2S sterilizer addition to Formaldehyde cleaning Intelligent Household Hepa Filter Smart APP WIFI RC

 

Been noticing that Chiang Rai air is much better than Chiang Mai.  Haven't watched the full burning season cycle so wondering if that

holds up over time or is just a fluke. Certainly they have less traffic.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Looks nice, and i like the Xiaomi brand.   Do make sure that you can easily order replacement filters when deciding on any air filter. 

 

Also there is a Toshiba unit on Lazada right now for a good price, around 3600 Baht.  Not quite as fancy but it does the job.   (I've had one for a couple years.)

 

Toshiba air purifier on Lazada

Edited February 15, 2018 by WinnieTheKhwai

[EnlightenedAtheist]

This fungal enzyme can transform wood into fuel. Would this work to offer a viable option for farmers  that burn plant matter in Asia? Not sure if wood and plant matter would be equally broken down in the same manner. I am not a biologist.

 

The research, reported in Nature Chemical Biology, has shown that the family of enzymes, called lytic polysaccharide monooxygenases (LPMOs), are capable of breaking down xylans -- carbohydrate molecules commonly found in wood biomass that are particularly resistant to degradation. (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/02/180216110522.htm)

[canopy]

Thai's enjoy lighting fires. That's why they do it. It's not a necessity. So there is no point in coming up with better alternatives because they don't care. It makes them perfectly happy to burn things their entire lives and pass it on to the next generation.

 

As for Chiang Rai the air is comparable to elsewhere in the north; bad half the year and horrible at times. I vividly recall my final trip to Chiang Rai. Forget seeing the mountains, visibility was just so bad, just a few hundred meters and the atmosphere was as if a volcano had erupted nearby. There was absolutely nowhere a person could go to escape the stench. Fires were being lit all over the place, even the hotel burned giant amounts of plastic in a pit nearby. I couldn't wait to get out of there and get back to Bangkok for the air. I know it sounds absurd to want to go to the smoggiest city to breath again, but it was true. And when I got to Bangkok the air seemed like heaven in comparison and I could sleep again.

 

[elephant45]

yah whats with the air in Chiang Rai?? I don't get it. Are they not cleaning the machinery that measures this stuff? Are the vehicles and factories the real problem in CM?

[sletraveler]

1 hour ago, elephant45 said:

yah whats with the air in Chiang Rai?? I don't get it. Are they not cleaning the machinery that measures this stuff? Are the vehicles and factories the real problem in CM?

I'm not in Chiang Rai, but monitoring the air stats daily I see it is much better than CM or Bangkok.  So you're suggesting the measurements aren't measuring properly and the air is foul like CM?    Was thinking I'd go there for a couple days just to check it out personally.  I had planned on not spending the dirty air season here in CM but plans got screwed up so one more time I choke through it.

[SoilSpoil]

Chiang Rai has a 60 day burning ban since Feb 12. 

[canopy]

Though the numbers are bit lower, the Chiang Rai air has still been in the orange zone (unhealthy for sensitive groups) same as Chiang Mai. I doubt these burning bans are all they are cracked up to be. Does anyone have a link to any of those satellite images that show the fires across Thailand? Then we can glimpse how the ban is working or not.

 

[SoilSpoil]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

Though the numbers are bit lower, the Chiang Rai air has still been in the orange zone (unhealthy for sensitive groups) same as Chiang Mai. I doubt these burning bans are all they are cracked up to be. Does anyone have a link to any of those satellite images that show the fires across Thailand? Then we can glimpse how the ban is working or not.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#z:6.0;c:104.153,16.577

 

 

Lot of  burning going on in Tak and Lampang. Chiang Rai is almost spotless, so is getting smog from other provinces.

Edited February 19, 2018 by SoilSpoil

[XGM]

3 hours ago, canopy said:

Though the numbers are bit lower, the Chiang Rai air has still been in the orange zone (unhealthy for sensitive groups) same as Chiang Mai. 

 

Every time I check Chiang Mai figures I also look at other locations in Thailand. Chiang Rai has been mostly below AQI 50 during the last months. Perhaps it will change on March / April, but for now it is very different.

 

Now for example, it is at 51 while Chiang Mai is at 157. This is quite a BIT lower.

Edited February 19, 2018 by XGM

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Chiang Rai has been good so far in February..  Typically in March though it's a lot worse; let's see what happens.

 

BTW, checking on other locations in Thailand is often tricky because some stations have a PM2.5 capability and others don't; the ones that do measure PM2.5 will then all look a lot worse.   

 

A map that seems to avoid this is the Berkely Earth map: Berkely Earth Pollution Map

[canopy]

20 hours ago, XGM said:

Chiang Rai has been mostly below AQI 50 during the last months.

Not true. The AQI in Chiang Rai has typically been in unhealthy ranges for the last 4 months. According to aqicn.org the AQI is currently over 120 which is unhealthy even by Thai standards. All you have to do is look outside and the haze is obvious to the most casual observer. You can't even see a sunrise or sunset. So where are you getting your information?

 

Chiang Rai has been good so far in February.

According to international health standards it is not good. Why do you feel it is good?

 

[XGM]

8 hours ago, WinnieTheKhwai said:

Chiang Rai has been good so far in February..

According to Canopy Chiang Rai is very bad. What are we missing then?

[EnlightenedAtheist]

51 minutes ago, SoilSpoil said:

 

You should be looking at pm2.5 measurements and not pm10.

 

http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangrai---gaia-station-03/

Ditto for Mae Sai which shows healthy levels of the 10 pm: http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangrai/maesai-health-office/

 

Extrapolating from the 2.5 pm figures of other cities, the 2.5 figures should show an unhealthy or orange flag there. In other words, in as much as I like this website, it paints a crooked image of what is really happening. I wish it had a filter (pm 10 and pm 2.5). Should I suggest it?

[CheGuava]

2 minutes ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

Ditto for Mae Sai which shows healthy levels of the 10 pm: http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangrai/maesai-health-office/

 

Extrapolating from the 2.5 pm figures of other cities, the 2.5 figures should show an unhealthy or orange flag there. In other words, in as much as I like this website, it paints a crooked image of what is really happening. I wish it had a filter (pm 10 and pm 2.5). Should I suggest it?

 

Yes.   Either a filter, or do a calculated PM2.5 based on the PM10 value, using the PM2.5 : PM10 ratio of nearby stations that measure both.  And then just indicate that it's a derived value.

[canopy]

I can only think of one reason Thailand is dragging its feet this many years and still not installing equipment that measures PM 2.5. It's because it will reveal the truth of how bad the air actually is. So for those who want the real story on air quality, here it is from aqicn.org:

 

 

 

 

[canopy]

17 hours ago, CheGuava said:

Chiang Rai is remarkably good this year, so far

 

The air in Chiang Rai for the past 4 months has been worse than international standards, often twice as bad or more. It is likely to remain like this or worse for months to come. And if this is a dry year like authorities predict, we can expect times of unhealthy air even during the rainy season. It is surprising to hear someone describe the situation as remarkably good despite the sunset or sunrise both being completely blotted out by pollution. A  lot of people are suffering and as we know the worst is yet to come.

 

[CheGuava]

4 hours ago, canopy said:

 

The air in Chiang Rai for the past 4 months has been worse than international standards, often twice as bad or more. It is likely to remain like this or worse for months to come. And if this is a dry year like authorities predict, we can expect times of unhealthy air even during the rainy season. It is surprising to hear someone describe the situation as remarkably good despite the sunset or sunrise both being completely blotted out by pollution. A  lot of people are suffering and as we know the worst is yet to come.

 

Sorry; I meant, compared to previous years, or compared to Chiang Mai.   Not compared to Northern Europe. 

 

I just checked on previous years and it turns out that I wasn't correct; also in previous years the Chiang Rai air quality was about the same as this year for January and February. The main scorcher comes in March usually.  (I did find that Mae Hong Son was better than previous years although it looks like they moved their measuring station so not sure if that's a valid comparison.)

 

So yes it will get a LOT worse the coming weeks.  

 

5 hours ago, canopy said:

I can only think of one reason Thailand is dragging its feet this many years and still not installing equipment that measures PM 2.5. It's because it will reveal the truth of how bad the air actually is. So for those who want the real story on air quality, here it is from aqicn.org:

 

 

 

 

I don't think that's true, or fair.  Thailand has measured PM2.5 for many areas including Chiang Mai since 2012 and the records are publicly available.  And Aqicn.org happily makes use of that same data.

 

They are still in the process of upgrading measuring stations as well as adding new ones, but keep in mind that this isn't a 2000 Baht Lazada-special we're talking about.  It's stations like these, which cost money: 

 

 

 

 

(I guess it's a matter of opinion too though of course.. for the price of one submarine they could probably have those stations just about everywhere. :) )  

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by CheGuava

[sharktooth]

San Sai this morning...

 

 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

I wonder if this would not be a solution: turning waste into gas. Although this is made for "food waste" it seems, this kickstart seems like a good way to trasnform farm waste into gas. I am not a chemist though.

 

https://twitter.com/techinsider/status/965990447343550464/video/1

[canopy]

No chance. You have to understand Thai's are perfectly content burning things. They enjoy it. You could give them 100 "better" solutions. You could show them this video. They would nod their head, then turn around and light another fire. You could tell them about all the people in the hospital with respiratory problems. Again, they'd nod, turn around and light another fire. Change will only come by force. And here there is no will power.