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[naboo]

I am preparing to apply for permanent residency and need some advice.

My situation:

I am currently here on extensions of stay on a visa dating back to 2008. My initial visa was a non-imm B multiple entry and was first extended in country in March 2009 by my current employer. I am in my mid-30s.

I have had a work permit since 2009 and paid income tax through m current employer since then.

My salary has, over the duration of my contract, increased from 42,000B/month to 70,000B/month. I do not reach the threshold of 80,000B/month I understand to be required to apply under the grounds of employment. I am due a pay increase in August 2016 and this is something I may need to discuss with my employer in the negotiations prior. I am a teacher, with home country qualification and experience and have just extended my Thai teachers' licence for the second five years.

I have been married to a Thai national since 2012 and we have a child together born in 2013. Child has passports for both Thailand and my country.

My questions -

1) I believe I can apply under the following two categories:

2.2 Employment,

2.3.1 Spouse: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of a Thai national spouse,

2.3.3 Father or mother: To provide patronage or to be under patronage of the applicant’s Thai national child,

2.4 Expert,

Which of the above would you recommend? I don't want my application to take years and years, I may decide to work elsewhere but need a base in Thailand in a few years time.

2) Employment route is currently an issue as I don't currently reach the salary threshold, but should I be able to meet in in my new contract, how long do I need to be paid it before I am eligable?

3) As an expert, is a teacher considered an expert?

4) As I am married, I assume I am eligable for the discounted price no matter which route I take. Is this correct?

edit: My Thai is reasonable, I have basic reading skills, no writing skills and can understand around half of a conversation on politics between Thai friends.

Edited December 29, 2015 by naboo

[SoFarAndNear]

I cant really give you any advice. Just want to wish you good luck because in my eyes you would qualify to be a Thai resident. Even if you only have 70.000 baht (which is immense compared to thai average income). On the basis that you have a wife and child should give you an extra bonus

[ubonjoe]

This is the last day you can apply for permanent residency this year. You will have to wait another year before you can apply.

The minimum income requirement to apply for PR if married to Thai has been reported as being 50k bath

Since you are married to a Thai you should apply for Thai citizenship instead of PR. You only need an income of 40K baht to apply for it.

[naboo]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

[Eclipse]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

Not if you are married to a Thai National.

[aidenai]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

All information can be found in the thread linked below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizenship-application/

[craighj]

I believe to apply for the married to a Thai stream, you have to have been married for 5 years.

Craighj

[jimmysjo]

Can one apply if living here on an extension due to retirement?

Can someone lead me to some page/site where all that is needed is explained?

Edited December 30, 2015 by jimmysjo

[Singerman]

Can one apply if living here on an extension due to retirement?

Can someone lead me to some page/site where all that is needed is explained?

Not available to retirees

[Patanawet]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

No, I don't think so. If he can, the citezenship would be the cheaper way to go (residency about 190,000 Baht plus 8K to apply).

Thailand doesn't permit dual nationality so would he have to give up his original nationality?

Anyway, as someone else here has pointed out, he's missed this years dates for application for residency.

There is a window of about 3 weeks during Nov/Dec when they accept applications and then the process takes about 18 months.

[sirwilly]

Balls to giving up you own Nationality for a Thai one. No sense in it lol.

[ubonjoe]

Balls to giving up you own Nationality for a Thai one. No sense in it lol.

Thailand allows dual nationality so you do not have to give up your nationality when you get Thai nationality unless your country does not allow it.

[Shadychris]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

No, I don't think so. If he can, the citezenship would be the cheaper way to go (residency about 190,000 Baht plus 8K to apply).

Thailand doesn't permit dual nationality so would he have to give up his original nationality?

Anyway, as someone else here has pointed out, he's missed this years dates for application for residency.

There is a window of about 3 weeks during Nov/Dec when they accept applications and then the process takes about 18 months.

And also it used to be the case that only 100 applicants were accepted per country per year. Not sure if those '100 per country' are simply allocated on a first come first served basis, or whether a 'preferred' 100 applications per country are selected from all applications received during the period of accepting applications... Edited December 30, 2015 by Shadychris

[SteveB2]

This is the last day you can apply for permanent residency this year. You will have to wait another year before you can apply.

The minimum income requirement to apply for PR if married to Thai has been reported as being 50k bath

Since you are married to a Thai you should apply for Thai citizenship instead of PR. You only need an income of 40K baht to apply for it.

As ubonjoe stated above - the end of the short 2 week window for submitting your PR application during 2015 ended today.

I had my own PR application accepted on Christmas day this year (2015) - just a few days ago. This was after several years of unsuccessful attempts with a decent professional Bangkok lawyer's assistance - known to have hatched several friends PR books during the last decade. Thus the information below is bang up to date.

A rough outline is given here and here - however, be aware that there have been many changes introduced during the last few years - much of the information available online including on the immigration departments own web site is now out of date. If particular note is that a 'bridging visa' that was issued by Chaeng Wattana immigration HQ up to and including the 2014 window once the PR application had been accepted is now not issued - you have to keep up your previous visa renewal process until your PR booklet is issued - I was informed that in recent years this has taken typically 3-5 years.

Important notes about PR applications minimum requirements:-

Even though I met the published requirements during my previous unsuccessful visits, I discovered quite early that the published PR pre-requisites are very much the bare bones minimum for your PR paperwork to be given the privilege of having your application pack thumbed through at the first of many interrogation desks (I chose my words carefully...), and are not in any way a guarantee that your submission paperwork will even be accepted for further consideration on the day of your visit.

The reason is that above and beyond the pre-requisites for each criteria (such as salary) there is an additional overall 'points' system that your entire application is scored against. Permit me to clarify - Lets consider just a few of the current PR scoring criteria sections - the information lives in a yellow A4 booklet on each interrogating officers desk - and let’s suppose that it is scored as follows... (Taking the actual published criteria for Thai citizenship as a guide Thai / English ), which is a very similar application assessment criteria used for considering an RP application.

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000 15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000 20 Points

BHT120,001 or more 15 Points

Applicants Age

20-30 years 2 Points

30-40 years 5 Points

40-50 years 10 Points

50-60 years 8 Points

60 years+ 5 Points

Educational Qualifications

High School only 3 Points

Higher vocational diploma 5 Points

Bachelor’s degree 8 Points

Master’s Degree 10 Points

Doctorate 15 Points

Knowledge of Thai Language

Can speak & understand Thai language 8 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem 10 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read Thai 13 Points

Can speak & understand Thai language & sing national anthem, Royal Anthem & read & Write Thai 15 Points

etc,

To summarize the unstated difficulties in any PR application.

If you score low in the salary section, then unless you score very well in many other sections then you won't meet the overall minimum score required for your application to be considered.

and...

Some of the salary/tax document requirements are also literally impossible to obtain without the co-operation of your Thai employer - legalized versions of some of the forms such as criminal background check, divorce certificate, Degree Certificate etc. from your country of origin, will make it highly likely that you may have to return to your current passport country of origin to obtain them - especially if you are a long suffering citizen of the United Kingdom, whose Embassy in Bangkok is becoming progressively more useless and difficult to visit by the year - and cannot now even produced a certified copy of most of the official paperwork the Immigration department requires

Conclusion

I found the whole process extremely time consuming, expensive, draining, disheartening and sometimes baffling as the immigration officials continual requests for difficult to obtain additional information (above and beyond the enormous amount of information called for in the 20+ paragraphs identified in the PR application guidance form) kept my lawyer, my company accountant, and myself busy preparing and obtaining the official documents needed in the 2 inch thick plus pack that represented my business and family history going back over many years.

There are also other processing payments beyond the published PR application fee that I can't talk about here that you should expect for such a high level visa application - your lawyer will advise you about this.

BTW - you are not required to have a lawyer accompany you for your PR application - however I consider it unlikely that even someone with a decade of business experience in LOS plus good Thai read/write language skills should consider themselves competent at putting together the application pack in accordance with the PR requirements that would pass muster on 1st attempt.

Good luck with your own future PR application submission attempt(s)

[aronp1]

I believe to apply for the married to a Thai stream, you have to have been married for 5 years.

Craighj

Must be married for 3 years, if not married to a Thai national you must hold PR status for 5 years.

[Liquorice]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

Unless you denounce your own citizenship your not likely to get Thai citizenship.

Thailand doesn't have an Immigration policy to actually offer 'Permanent Residency' in the sense you are totally free of any restrictions.

You can get PR status but are still subject to certain conditions.

The very fact that you are issued with an 'Alien Registration Book' means you are still just that.

You must report to the Police every 5 years who will sign your registration book.

You will still require re-entry permits to re-enter Thailand

You lose your PR status if you remain outside of Thailand for 12 months.

However you don't have to apply for annual extensions, nor do 90 day reports.

[SteveB2]

I spotted a typo in the scoring system I listed...

Salary
BHT80,000-100,000 15 Points
BHT100,001-120,000 20 Points
BHT120,001 or more 25 Points

The implication being:- The more money you earn, the more suitable you will be considered for RP - especially for RP based on business

[SteveB2]

Consideration for the amount of time you have been married

Consider the published regulations to the barest minimum necessary for your application to be considered on your first visit, but which is then further vetted by an overall scoring system.

Thus, similar to the monthly salary scoring system, there is also a 'time you have been married' scoring system (since I scored sufficiently this year with 10 years marriage, but with insufficient overall score last year).

I am not privy to the actual scoring method - however, here is a best guess scoring system works based on information gleaned from chat's with IO's this December 2015.

Married scoring system

2 years 5 points

5 years 10 points

10 years 15 points

15 years+ 20 points

[Rhys]

Interesting....do you really gain any tangible benefits as a PR?

[Rhys]

I was under the impression permanent residence was a prerequisite for a citizenship application.

I am planning to apply next year.

Unless you denounce your own citizenship your not likely to get Thai citizenship.

Thailand doesn't have an Immigration policy to actually offer 'Permanent Residency' in the sense you are totally free of any restrictions.

You can get PR status but are still subject to certain conditions.

The very fact that you are issued with an 'Alien Registration Book' means you are still just that.

You must report to the Police every 5 years who will sign your registration book.

You will still require re-entry permits to re-enter Thailand

You lose your PR status if you remain outside of Thailand for 12 months.

However you don't have to apply for annual extensions, nor do 90 day reports.

..

OK.....not having to go down for the 90 seems quite expensive and ...

[samran]

Unless you denounce your own citizenship your not likely to get Thai citizenship.

Absolute horse poo...

[naboo]

Interesting....do you really gain any tangible benefits as a PR?

You get permanent residency, so long as you comply with the rules. So no more visas.

Being mid-30s, this is my main motivation. As it stands, if I lose my job, I am out of the country, wife and daughter are irrelevant, I am here for work purposes. With PR, I don't need to worry.

Still no suggestion to my main question - which route; specialist, father of a Thai child or married to a Thai?

[manarak]

are there any samples of the general knowledge test?

[manarak]

I spotted a typo in the scoring system I listed...

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000 15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000 20 Points

BHT120,001 or more 25 Points

The implication being:- The more money you earn, the more suitable you will be considered for RP - especially for RP based on business

The English version of the points system you posted seems off... there is no section 3 and section "occupational security" is missing as well.

[blackcab]

Interesting....do you really gain any tangible benefits as a PR?

You get permanent residency, so long as you comply with the rules. So no more visas.

Being mid-30s, this is my main motivation. As it stands, if I lose my job, I am out of the country, wife and daughter are irrelevant, I am here for work purposes. With PR, I don't need to worry.

Still no suggestion to my main question - which route; specialist, father of a Thai child or married to a Thai?

I guess you have an extension of stay based on a non-imm B visa.

One thing you could do is at your next extension is change the reason to being married to a Thai.

No more business documents needed. You can have a work permit with this extension too. And if you lose your job, you can stay in the Kingdom - no rush to get out and get another entry.

Doing it this way you are not at the mercy of your employer. You are at the mercy of your wife.

[naboo]

Doing it this way you are not at the mercy of your employer. You are at the mercy of your wife.

Neither seems good to me!

I reckon I've got at least another 35 extensions of stay in me. PR seems the better option.

Are any of the routes I mention above easier?

[Rhys]

Interesting....do you really gain any tangible benefits as a PR?

You get permanent residency, so long as you comply with the rules. So no more visas.

Being mid-30s, this is my main motivation. As it stands, if I lose my job, I am out of the country, wife and daughter are irrelevant, I am here for work purposes. With PR, I don't need to worry.

Still no suggestion to my main question - which route; specialist, father of a Thai child or married to a Thai?

OK pard... you're employed by a school.. they handle your paper work correct? Visa, work permit, 90 days right. What do you gain by being a PR? You pay the extra fee what ever it is...one of the only difference is you don't have to do the 90 day report thang.

You loose your job, you going to look for a new one? Or just hang out..

I have faced the same situation, I am close to 60 been here over 20...not always in education.. never have I wanted PR...

Save your money... my suggestion...all the best... it is your situation so do as you see best.. However, if you are thinking there is a rationale or reasoning when you go through the PR process be prepared for a Thai official that is waiting for someone like you to pull your chain and assert his/her authority over you.. However, you could be lucky and all goes well and smoothly..

cheers Mate

On the pegs

[SteveB2]

I spotted a typo in the scoring system I listed...

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000 15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000 20 Points

BHT120,001 or more 25 Points

The implication being:- The more money you earn, the more suitable you will be considered for RP - especially for RP based on business

The English version of the points system you posted seems off... there is no section 3 and section "occupational security" is missing as well.

Acknowledged - I did not list every section for brevity.

The point of my post was to ensure everyone knew that a scoring system for PR existed, and that potential applicants do not misunderstand the eligibility of their own applications when in fact they likely don't stand a chance.

Let me emphasise that unlike for the Thai Citizenship application which has a published scoring system available online here , I am not aware of any publically published scoring system for PR Applications.

BTW - I saw my own application checked many times by different IM officers against a clearly labelled Yellow cover A4 document (The cover was in Thai & English) something like 'Scoring system for Permanent residency Applications' - it seemed to be quite a complex standardized document with dozens of typed A4 pages about 1/2 inch thick no doubt covering all the different PR application classes.

So what you have in my post is 'best guess'; Thus sorry manarak - that's all there is.

[manarak]

I spotted a typo in the scoring system I listed...

Salary

BHT80,000-100,000 15 Points

BHT100,001-120,000 20 Points

BHT120,001 or more 25 Points

The implication being:- The more money you earn, the more suitable you will be considered for RP - especially for RP based on business

The English version of the points system you posted seems off... there is no section 3 and section "occupational security" is missing as well.

Acknowledged - I did not list every section for brevity.

The point of my post was to ensure everyone knew that a scoring system for PR existed, and that potential applicants do not misunderstand the eligibility of their own applications when in fact they likely don't stand a chance.

Let me emphasise that unlike for the Thai Citizenship application which has a published scoring system available online here , I am not aware of any publically published scoring system for PR Applications.

BTW - I saw my own application checked many times by different IM officers against a clearly labelled Yellow cover A4 document (The cover was in Thai & English) something like 'Scoring system for Permanent residency Applications' - it seemed to be quite a complex standardized document with dozens of typed A4 pages about 1/2 inch thick no doubt covering all the different PR application classes.

So what you have in my post is 'best guess'; Thus sorry manarak - that's all there is.

Thank you anyway for posting!

better than no info.

[thailandstupidlife]

Hello, can I know the reason why someone would apply for PR ? No more immigration visit even once a year ?