Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[sgtsabai]

Well she will be a bit better than any of the clown bus, I wouldn't say "way better". If she wins the nomination we will be forced to choose between the lessor of 2 evils yet again. I think Obama has so hurt the progressive movement over his failure to do anything really "progressive", actually he failed to really try and was behind the organized government destruction of OWS, that it will be a hard row to hoe to get many of them to turn out, especially if it is Hillary because many are learning she is nothing but a neoliberal/neocon tool of Wall Street criminals and banksters and the progressives may not support her. I believe as long as Bernie is in he will be able to turn out the vote. I have never voted for a Republican, the worst of the worst, and never will, but I don't think I can bring myself to vote for Hillary either. Good book on the Clinton's just came out and you can bet the bottom dollar they aren't going to like. No, it's not right wingnut ranting points. It is a real point of view and information, not Benghazi, Benghazi etc.

[sgtsabai]

I have to disagree on at least one point, America has moved far right, far, far right. Dwight Eisenhower couldn't even get nominated in the Democrat party, forget the right wing insane Republican party today. America is not a socialist country, never will be a fully socialist nation, but we have lost our way and we do need a revolution as Bernie supports. The capitalism today is corrupt and out of control, it needs to be regulated and Glass-Steagall needs to be restored, unions re-established. Wall Street criminals and banksters jailed and the banks broken up. Campaign finance has to be reformed and the lobbyists thrown out of Washington and the "revolving door" locked shut. Our country is run by the very rich and the citizens have no say. Keep GitMo open for those that really belong there. It could and hopefully will be a Democratic Socialist country. Many of those people that the right wing claims never paid taxes, pay every day and their percentage of tax is much, much higher than the plutocrats or corporations. Are you claiming you don't care if people don't have enough to live at least in some comfort, not worry about where the meds and next meal are coming from. Especially in older age? You want them to die in misery. Those people worked but just didn't make the money to retire in comfort like the thieving plutocrats. We owe it as human beings to help take care of our fellow man. We are way down on the bottom of the list for medical well being in the industrialized world, and our expenses are the highest. Medicare for all would fix that. And NO, I don't believe all the lies about "welfare mothers" etc. Damn right, raise taxes and make the rich and corporations pay their fair share, they haven't for many, many years. While all the money has gone to them, wages for the middle/working class, which made America an almost great country, have stagnated or fallen and our country is falling apart. This is due to Republicans and neoliberals like the Clinton's. Like all, I bitched about paying taxes, but I knew it was best for my country.

[up2u2]

Some people have made a thing about Bernie being a Jew but only about 10 percent of Americans say they wouldn't vote for someone just based on being a Jew.

But he has too MUCH BIGGER political problems.

A very large percentage of Americans will never vote for an atheist.

Also, a very large percentage of Americans will never vote for socialist.

Bernie recently "came out" as not associating himself with religiosity which is short of saying he's an atheist, but it's close enough.

People, forget this guy.

It's hopeless!

Those two things are simply insurmountable going into the general election, if he's nominated.

What's this 'very large percentage' thing. What polls are you referring to?

Also, a very large percentage of Americans will never vote for socialist.

Show me one American who does not benefit from several socialist programs. There are none. As soon as the knuckle draggers realize what socialism is, and how the US has been massively socialist for decades, they'll realize 'socialism' is not bad. Indeed it's the theme behind SS, and nearly all of hundreds of other do-good programs administered by States and Feds. Bernie is also good at pointing out how Scandinavian countries (which aren't spooked by the word 'socialist') are doing rather well. Even right-wingers can admit (however reluctantly) that Scandinavian countries are better administered than the US. Unless the right-wingers are rich (see below).

The only people who both understand what socialism is and who are spooked by the word (and the prospect of a Prez Sanders) are rich people who don't want to pay taxes. They want to continue to hide money away and avoid taxes. Since they can spend lots of money getting their ideas publicized (super pacs, full page ads in the WSJ, etc) they're able to sway some of the voters to be afraid of Bernie - and to be afraid of the S word.

Its arrogant to indict those who do not like nor desire socialism. I am not rich. I understand it. I am spooked by it. It is true that's its hard to produce an American who has not benefited from socialist programs but since most of them are coercive and mandate compliance and participation the offer to produce one of these people is specious.

As examples. from social security to the seemingly generous marriage exemption in taxes, there is always direct or indirect coercion; both socialist schemes- one directly and the other to offset socialist progressive tax injuries. In the case of SS its coercion is obvious and collected by the IRS. In the case of a simple enough thing as tax exemption, you participate to reduce the amount of money you would otherwise redistribute to those who hardly worked at all claiming the Earned Income Credit (EEIC). Wherever you look, socialism is "progressively" forced upon America. America has consistently stepped 3 steps left, 1 or 0 steps right for many years. But America is not a socialist country and the fruit of this forced socialism (read social engineering) is what people are railing against. America is in its current perdicament because of the "socialism" crap alluded to in the above post.

Socialism is always inimical to individual liberty. Socialism predicates are equality in outcomes ethical relativity. Socialism poisons everything it touches from the classrooms to the boardrooms, from the battlefields to the court system. Socialism is the bane of reason and Liberty.

The fact that bylines today can even carry such words as "revolution" or socialism when regarding a contender to the white house, a full fledged radical socialist, shows how very successful socialists have been in their Fabian-like "progressive" (read incremental) goals. However, as repugnant Bernie's politics are he possesses one thing that is absent in every other candidate in this and most all elections- honesty. Sanders is who he purports to me. Sanders is consistent. He does not appear to lie. Its just the product he is selling will kill us just as surely as the lies the others peddle.

This is the real problem for Bernie can he cut through and educate the American Electorate and counter the misinformation from the extreme Right Wing ideology and rhetoric above.

[boomerangutang]

Its arrogant to indict those who do not like nor desire socialism. I am not rich. I understand it. I am spooked by it. It is true that's its hard to produce an American who has not benefited from socialist programs but since most of them are coercive and mandate compliance and participation the offer to produce one of these people is specious.

As examples. from social security to the seemingly generous marriage exemption in taxes, there is always direct or indirect coercion; both socialist schemes- one directly and the other to offset socialist progressive tax injuries. In the case of SS its coercion is obvious and collected by the IRS. In the case of a simple enough thing as tax exemption, you participate to reduce the amount of money you would otherwise redistribute to those who hardly worked at all claiming the Earned Income Credit (EEIC). Wherever you look, socialism is "progressively" forced upon America. America has consistently stepped 3 steps left, 1 or 0 steps right for many years. But America is not a socialist country and the fruit of this forced socialism (read social engineering) is what people are railing against. America is in its current perdicament because of the "socialism" crap alluded to in the above post.

Socialism is always inimical to individual liberty. Socialism predicates are equality in outcomes ethical relativity. Socialism poisons everything it touches from the classrooms to the boardrooms, from the battlefields to the court system. Socialism is the bane of reason and Liberty.

The fact that bylines today can even carry such words as "revolution" or socialism when regarding a contender to the white house, a full fledged radical socialist, shows how very successful socialists have been in their Fabian-like "progressive" (read incremental) goals. However, as repugnant Bernie's politics are he possesses one thing that is absent in every other candidate in this and most all elections- honesty. Sanders is who he purports to me. Sanders is consistent. He does not appear to lie. Its just the product he is selling will kill us just as surely as the lies the others peddle.

This is the real problem for Bernie can he cut through and educate the American Electorate and counter the misinformation from the extreme Right Wing ideology and rhetoric above.

In reference to 'Arjunadawn': I admit socialism can get over-amped. Yet the hypocrisy prevalent in right-wingers' minds is that; all socialism (and the s word itself) is bad - when those same right wingers are benefiting from socialist policies - some of which have been an integral part of American policies for generations. Younger voters don't equate socialism with communism (as voters who lived thru the cold war do) and are more flexible in their thinking. Here's what I suggest: listen to what Sanders proposes, rather than staying stuck on the 's' word. If you then don't like his ideas, then ok, that's your choice. He's not proposing re-education camps.

On the other side of the coin, there's Trump who talks about 'making America great again.' The rhetoric sounds good, but if a person listens to how Trump plans to do that, it's unappealing and unrealistic ('build a giant wall between the US and Mexico and make Mexico pay for it') ...type of drivel.

[Jingthing]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[up2u2]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

Here we go again. The same old Right Wing clap trap. It is NOT free education. NOTHING is free. It is a TUITION investment made by the taxpayers collectively. The taxpayer invests in the cost of higher education for its youth. It is the best ROI a society can make. It is not open slather for everyone. Not everyone is suited to higher education. Many people excel and have a passion for trades or the arts etc. Tuition subsidised higher education is for the best and brightest who demonstrate a passion for learning and a natural ability in the sciences. The tuition has no charge but if you want the luxury of eating you are going to need to get a job and hopefully a little help from mom and dad if they can manage it. Where it pays off for the taxpayer is when these young people launch their careers. They will add to the collective knowledge of the society on the world stage they will achieve high paying positions, ie pay significantly more tax, advance and innovate new technologies adding wealth to a nation. The only thing Socialist about the construct is it deals with a section of the Society so it is Social in structure. Universities will transition from Party Central with young people racking up a trillion dollars in debt on worthless Degrees to places of real higher learning in practical sciences and research ventures.

So give all the 'free stuff' rhetoric a rest. No ones buying it anymore.

[lannarebirth]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

It's one of his few policies I disagree with. Although, one of the few proposals of Obama that I support is to make Community Colleges tuition free. People don't value, especially the young, that which is given too easily.

Edited February 2, 2016 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

Would love to see a Sanders/Cruz race. Cruz's wife a managing director at Goldman Sachs, the same Goldman Sachs he took a $500,000 undisclosed loan from. The script writes itself.

It just doesn't work with Hillary, as the debate would be about which candidate got more from Goldman Sachs, so not quite the right dynamic.

Edited February 2, 2016 by lannarebirth

[sgtsabai]

Apparently Cruz has won Iowa (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/1/1478129/-Ted-Cruz-wins-Iowa-Republican-caucus?detail=email) and Bernie and Hillary split delegates http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/02/1478473/-BNR-The-BNR-CaucusForBernie-Liveblog-7. Information unclear and not complete at the moment. For those that think Bernie can't/won't get anything done please read this article by Elizabeth Warren: http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/34642-elizabeth-warren-it-matters-greatly-who-the-democratic-president-is. No matter if Bernie, better hope so, or Hillary the Republicans will attempt the same as they did do to Obama, swear in mass the day before he took office to not pass anything he proposes or for that matter anything the Democrats propose. Some people, incredulous enough, actually believe the "do-nothing", well except try to repeal Obamacare, Congress was the fault of both parties when clearly it was obstruction by the Republicans that I believe border on traitorous. Oh Bernie doesn't "promise" anything, he says it will happen if the people rise up and make it happen and even then it may take until the scalawags, Republicans and Blue dawg (Republican "lite"), are forced out of Congress. That will be hard to do with Republican voter suppression of those groups that tend to vote Democrat and gerrymandering, plus a little tampering with electronic voting machines but maybe the faux (not the news) uneducated, dumbed down, propaganda believing will start to awaken from their coma.

[sgtsabai]

Sorry about this, you will have to copy and past the link about Iowa Bernie caucus and Elizabeth Warren.

[up2u2]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

It's one of his few policies I disagree with. Although, one of the few proposals of Obama that I support is to make Community Colleges tuition free. People don't value, especially the young, that which is given too easily.

Simply not true. A Degree is highly valued and a monumental struggle. Only the tuition is free and it is only offered to the best and brightest. It is also important to have 'latter learning' pathways for those who come late to a genuine keen interest in higher learning. You don't want to turn away anyone who may be able to run the course. It is also critical to invest in fee free Tuition in Trade Colleges in conjunction with industry (work as you learn) that benefit from those trades. Societies need plumbers, electricians, nurses, builders, laboratory technicians, dental assistants, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. These are all one and the same with higher educational Degrees. They all benefit and create wealth for a society. In fact I know a number of highly skilled trades people that out earn people with Degrees by hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

I do agree with you in respect of little rich kids with wealthy mommy and daddies who just open the check book for a new Wing on the University Library and little obnoxious Johnny gets shipped off to University with only two brain cells wasting a vital position for a person who may have real ability but poor. Yeah little Johnny the tosser goes on mommy and daddies bill not the taxpayer.

[sgtsabai]

Not little Johnny, Bush being a prime example, except he destroyed the US economy and much of the worlds and set the Mid-East on fire.

[chuckd]

The kids love Bernie because he promises free college. I don't blame them. That would be great. But even if elected, he could never deliver that. Oh well!

It's one of his few policies I disagree with. Although, one of the few proposals of Obama that I support is to make Community Colleges tuition free. People don't value, especially the young, that which is given too easily.

Simply not true. A Degree is highly valued and a monumental struggle. Only the tuition is free and it is only offered to the best and brightest. It is also important to have 'latter learning' pathways for those who come late to a genuine keen interest in higher learning. You don't want to turn away anyone who may be able to run the course. It is also critical to invest in fee free Tuition in Trade Colleges in conjunction with industry (work as you learn) that benefit from those trades. Societies need plumbers, electricians, nurses, builders, laboratory technicians, dental assistants, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. These are all one and the same with higher educational Degrees. They all benefit and create wealth for a society. In fact I know a number of highly skilled trades people that out earn people with Degrees by hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

I do agree with you in respect of little rich kids with wealthy mommy and daddies who just open the check book for a new Wing on the University Library and little obnoxious Johnny gets shipped off to University with only two brain cells wasting a vital position for a person who may have real ability but poor. Yeah little Johnny the tosser goes on mommy and daddies bill not the taxpayer.

So is this where Bernie's estimated (by the CBO) tax increases over the next ten years in the amount of $19.6 Trillion going?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-a-list-of-bernie-sanders-19.6-trillion-in-tax-hikes/article/2580846

[Chicog]

Here we go again. The same old Right Wing clap trap. It is NOT free education. NOTHING is free. It is a TUITION investment made by the taxpayers collectively. The taxpayer invests in the cost of higher education for its youth. It is the best ROI a society can make. It is not open slather for everyone. Not everyone is suited to higher education. Many people excel and have a passion for trades or the arts etc. Tuition subsidised higher education is for the best and brightest who demonstrate a passion for learning and a natural ability in the sciences. The tuition has no charge but if you want the luxury of eating you are going to need to get a job and hopefully a little help from mom and dad if they can manage it. Where it pays off for the taxpayer is when these young people launch their careers. They will add to the collective knowledge of the society on the world stage they will achieve high paying positions, ie pay significantly more tax, advance and innovate new technologies adding wealth to a nation. The only thing Socialist about the construct is it deals with a section of the Society so it is Social in structure. Universities will transition from Party Central with young people racking up a trillion dollars in debt on worthless Degrees to places of real higher learning in practical sciences and research ventures.

So give all the 'free stuff' rhetoric a rest. No ones buying it anymore.

I'm a little confused.

One the one hand you say it's an investment, on the other you refer to them as "worthless degrees".

Which is it?

[boomerangutang]

So is this where Bernie's estimated (by the CBO) tax increases over the next ten years in the amount of $19.6 Trillion going?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-a-list-of-bernie-sanders-19.6-trillion-in-tax-hikes/article/2580846

The Washington Examiner is a hard right-wing paper. What they may have done is send a slew of unrealistic policy proposals to the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) and asked for an estimate for how much it would cost. The Examiner knows how to play dirty - they've had a lot of practice of throwing mud. Plus, where have you ever heard a "10 year projection" of taxes? Probably never before.

Another factor, if Sanders becomes president, is there will most likely be a Republican-dominated congress. Republican reps and senators are very adept at blocking proposals and wasting time. They will oppose nearly everything a Democratic prez proposes. They do it in their sleep. They've done it for the full 8 years Obama has been in the top spot - though some good things were able to get passed regardless of Republican intransigence.

Regardless of which Dem candidate wins the nomination, the Rep Attack Machine will be going full tilt - throwing mud, like the $19.6 trillion tax bill myth and anything else they hope will possibly stick to their opponents.

I'm sure if anyone were to ask Mr. Sanders how he proposes to pay for some programs, he'll be glad to oblige with a sensible answer. In contrast, if someone asks the Washington Examiner staff writers, they'll get shrill and inaccurate answers.

Check this page at NPR. Some good photos of Sander's fans

Edited February 2, 2016 by boomerangutang

[sgtsabai]

And aside from the Washington Examiner (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Washington_Examiner) basicaly being a right wing rag your point is? While his single payer plan is yet to be finalized, employees increase in a medical tax would be more than offset by the savings in medical care for all. Tax Wall Street criminals and banksters, damn right. The rich haven't paid their fair share for anything, including SS, in many years. Ah but the real kicker in the "article" is at the end where it completly shows it's plutocratic right wing colors: "Meaning they don't take into account any offsetting reduction in revenue that's likely to occur due to depressed economic activity resulting from such major tax increases. For instance, taxing "speculation" on Wall Street will reduce trading activity, and thus it's unlikely to raise the $300 billion per year claimed by the Sanders campaign." Oh poor, poor baby rich "a$$$$$$s" might loose a bit of money. I believe "trickle down" has been throughly disproved. If it cuts some of the speculitive trading, as it is intended, maybe we won't see quite so many "bubbles" bursting on Wall Street. Just more right wing lies and propaganda.

[Jingthing]

Y'all are tripping. Sander's fantasy ends in South Carolina.

[sgtsabai]

S. Carolina is supposedly a safe state for Hillary. Hmmm, all states were supposed to be safe for Hillary. Sanders and Hillary tied in Iowa and he will win in New Hampshire. I wouldn't count out a slim win in S. Carolina. Nope, Sanders and real Democrats are in for the long haul and know he is the right person for the job. Yes, he is not known to the black community but he has a very long history of support and action for civil rights and minorities. The more he becomes known, and lame stream media is going to have a hard time purposely ignoring him now, the more people will be attracted to his platform and honesty. The more people learn about neocon/neoliberal tool of Wall Street criminals and banksters, Hillary the less she will be liked.

[lannarebirth]

Y'all are tripping. Sander's fantasy ends in South Carolina.

Bernie raised over $20 Million in January alone. Average donation $27. He's not going anywhere. Regardless of delegate count or popular vote he'll be in the race a long time. Hillary will have to continue to inauthentically mimic his every word and deed just to stay relevant. THEN, assuming she can win the nomination, she's going to have to run away from all that. She's in deep shit IMO.

Edited February 2, 2016 by lannarebirth

[Jingthing]

There is no way Bernie will ever beat HRC with African Americans.

A somewhat competitive race, where she wins of course, is actually very good for HRC.

It hardens her for the general and it wipes away the perception that she is being crowned without opposition.

Where are Bernie voters going to go?

To the republicans? Not a chance.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

There is no way Bernie will ever beat HRC with African Americans.

I'll grant you she knows which "Reverends" to pay, but I think the Jacksons and Sharptons of this world are losing influence.

[lannarebirth]

There is no way Bernie will ever beat HRC with African Americans.

A somewhat competitive race, where she wins of course, is actually very good for HRC.

It hardens her for the general and it wipes away the perception that she is being crowned without opposition.

Where are Bernie voters going to go?

To the republicans? Not a chance.

They're going to go home, which amounts to the same thing as going to the Republicans.

[Jingthing]

There is no way Bernie will ever beat HRC with African Americans.

I'll grant you she knows which "Reverends" to pay, but I think the Jacksons and Sharptons of this world are losing influence.

BS.

There are actually two reasons why HRC is stronger.

First, HRC (and Bill and Barack) do focus on minority civil rights specially about African Africans.

Bernie is crafting his campaign on classical SOCIALIST CLASS WARFARE, deemphasizing minority identity issues and proposing that all of lower economic levels UNITE against the billionaire class.

African Americans usually don't like their civil rights struggle equated with the civil rights struggles of other groups.

Also, though few have mentioned it in the press, there is a decades long political conflict between African Americans and Jews. African Americans and Jews used to be united in civil rights struggles back before Jews became "white" in the culture of American racial classification. African Americans often feel resentment about that and there is a big distrust particularly of Jewish LIBERALS.

Of course I'm not talking about every African American. Just discussing a political and social reality that all aware people already know about.

[lannarebirth]

There is no way Bernie will ever beat HRC with African Americans.

I'll grant you she knows which "Reverends" to pay, but I think the Jacksons and Sharptons of this world are losing influence.

BS.

There are actually two reasons why HRC is stronger.

First, HRC (and Bill and Barack) do focus on minority civil rights specially about African Africans.

Bernie is crafting his campaign on classical SOCIALIST CLASS WARFARE, deemphasizing minority identity issues and proposing that all of lower economic levels UNITE against the billionaire class.

African Americans usually don't like their civil rights struggle equated with the civil rights struggles of other groups.

Also, though few have mentioned it in the press, there is a decades long political conflict between African Americans and Jews. African Americans and Jews used to be united in civil rights struggles back before Jews became "white" in the culture of American racial classification. African Americans often feel resentment about that and there is a big distrust particularly of Jewish LIBERALS.

Of course I'm not talking about every African American. Just discussing a political and social reality that all aware people already know about.

Yes, I'm aware of all that, and how has that served African Americans till now? Affirmative Action and desegregation came about under Nixon. What have mainstream Democrats ever done for African Americans? They ruled them on the plantations and they rule them in the ghettos. Maybe they'll start looking for a better deal.

[up2u2]

Simply not true. A Degree is highly valued and a monumental struggle. Only the tuition is free and it is only offered to the best and brightest. It is also important to have 'latter learning' pathways for those who come late to a genuine keen interest in higher learning. You don't want to turn away anyone who may be able to run the course. It is also critical to invest in fee free Tuition in Trade Colleges in conjunction with industry (work as you learn) that benefit from those trades. Societies need plumbers, electricians, nurses, builders, laboratory technicians, dental assistants, butchers, bakers and candle stick makers. These are all one and the same with higher educational Degrees. They all benefit and create wealth for a society. In fact I know a number of highly skilled trades people that out earn people with Degrees by hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

I do agree with you in respect of little rich kids with wealthy mommy and daddies who just open the check book for a new Wing on the University Library and little obnoxious Johnny gets shipped off to University with only two brain cells wasting a vital position for a person who may have real ability but poor. Yeah little Johnny the tosser goes on mommy and daddies bill not the taxpayer.

So is this where Bernie's estimated (by the CBO) tax increases over the next ten years in the amount of $19.6 Trillion going?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-a-list-of-bernie-sanders-19.6-trillion-in-tax-hikes/article/2580846

Less $19.6Trillion dollar wars over ten years. Books not bombs.

[sgtsabai]

Like I said, once people get to know more about him the more they'll like him and the less they'll like Hillary. Progressive and many others in the Democrat Party do not support her and when the truth is brought out about Bill Clinton's betrayal of black people they'll like her even less. Bernie is also doing something Democrats have failed to do for many years in that he is attracting white working class voters. Will some of them stop drinking the right wing lying kool-aid and stop voting against their own welfair. I think so. Hillary is not presidential material and the only thing that matters to her is her. "The Clintons sordid race game: No one will say it, but the Clintons rise was premised on repudiating black voters" http://www.salon.com/2016/01/31/the_clintons_sordid_race_game_no_one_will_say_it_but_the_clintons_rise_was_premised_on_repudiating_black_voters/

http://www.salon.com/2016/01/30/we_do_not_need_another_clinton_administration_if_only_sanders_would_say_it/

[Jingthing]

Good luck.

I don't really mean that because nominating Bernie would be the same as gifting the presidency to any republican.

You do realize republicans are wishing Bernie is nominated, right?

They'll crush him into the ground.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jingthing

[sgtsabai]

You do realize that all polls show Bernie beating all Republicans, including the one Hillary barely beats, Trump, and the one she doesn't beat, Cruz (who is in someways worse than Trump) who just beat Trump, don't you? Not one of the clown bus can win a general election. The only people that will vote for them are as batshit crazy as the Republican candidates.

[chuckd]

So is this where Bernie's estimated (by the CBO) tax increases over the next ten years in the amount of $19.6 Trillion going?

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/heres-a-list-of-bernie-sanders-19.6-trillion-in-tax-hikes/article/2580846

The Washington Examiner is a hard right-wing paper. What they may have done is send a slew of unrealistic policy proposals to the CBO (Congressional Budget Office) and asked for an estimate for how much it would cost. The Examiner knows how to play dirty - they've had a lot of practice of throwing mud. Plus, where have you ever heard a "10 year projection" of taxes? Probably never before.

Another factor, if Sanders becomes president, is there will most likely be a Republican-dominated congress. Republican reps and senators are very adept at blocking proposals and wasting time. They will oppose nearly everything a Democratic prez proposes. They do it in their sleep. They've done it for the full 8 years Obama has been in the top spot - though some good things were able to get passed regardless of Republican intransigence.

Regardless of which Dem candidate wins the nomination, the Rep Attack Machine will be going full tilt - throwing mud, like the $19.6 trillion tax bill myth and anything else they hope will possibly stick to their opponents.

I'm sure if anyone were to ask Mr. Sanders how he proposes to pay for some programs, he'll be glad to oblige with a sensible answer. In contrast, if someone asks the Washington Examiner staff writers, they'll get shrill and inaccurate answers.

Check this page at NPR. Some good photos of Sander's fans

Did you even read the linked Washington Examiner article?

If you got past the first four paragraphs you might have seen these...

1. As part of his single-payer healthcare plan, Sanders would institute a 6.2 percent tax on employers to finance healthcare premiums for his new federally-run system, which he said would raise $630 billion per year.

2. Sanders says he would raise $310 billion per year by ending the tax breaks for employer sponsored health insurance, which his campaign said would become "obsolete" if his single-payer plan were implemented.

3. Sanders has proposed imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators, claiming it would raise about $300 billion a year and would more than pay for his plan to offer free tuition at public colleges and universities.

4. In addition to the business premium tax, Sanders would propose a 2.2 percent tax on individual income to raise another $210 billion per year to finance his healthcare plan.

5. To pay for his plan to expand Social Security, Sanders has proposed removing the cap on payroll taxes on income exceeding $250,000 per year.

There are an additional seven tax changes hs is proposing...and the CBO frequently estimates costs over a ten year period.

Attacking the source is so passe'.

[Jingthing]

You do realize that all polls show Bernie beating all Republicans, including the one Hillary barely beats, Trump, and the one she doesn't beat, Cruz (who is in someways worse than Trump) who just beat Trump, don't you? Not one of the clown bus can win a general election. The only people that will vote for them are as batshit crazy as the Republican candidates.

You seriously pay any attention to polls? Silly.