Be guaranty problem

[rethaier]

Your friend got lumbered with the debt when she decided she trusted her friend. Now, sadly, she must pay the debt or, I guess, lose her house. Never a lender or borrower be is always good advice. Being a guarantor is the same as being a lender.

[Nemesis7]

Hardly any option to avoid he loan unless he clams he didnt actually sign it.

[Rumblecat]

A car has much more utility in cash-based societies. In Argentina, cars generally appreciate in value. In the USA, a new car depreciates in value about 25-40% as soon as you drive it off the lot. It's relative to where you are.

I'd never considered that, that's pretty interesting.

(If that sounds like sarcasm, it's genuinely not).

[RayHaas]

He started to bye one car , therefore the guaranty

My friend did this because he did the same before , and taught to help him in good trust.

It turns out to without knowing that he was gambling also

the question stays , if it is good to make a court case.?

( we talking about 500.000 baht)

I am willing to help with a lawyer

To be honest a court case against the finance company will fail.. so the only option is a court case against the friend that bought the car and did not pay. You have to see if that "friend" has any money because otherwise the court case is for nothing.

The court case against the finance wont fail. The judge will set a min of payment due monthly as low as Baht 500.- Also the car will be auctioned of by the finance company. Not 100% sure on what your friend has paid of sofar. You might as well take over the finance and sell the car.

[Berkshire]

Can your "friend" take possession of the car? At least he can sell it and get some of that money back, although not the entire 500,000.

[bridge2bridge]

NEVER go Guarantor for a FRIEND.

Feel sorry for your friend as she just wanted to help a FRIEND.

Lesson to be learnt.

The HARD WAY.

Unfortunately there is NOTHING she can do.

Unless her friend pays the debt.

But i doubt that will happen by the sounds of things.

[bridge2bridge]

Hardly any option to avoid he loan unless he clams he didnt actually sign it.

How can he say he DID NOT sign it.

If they have HIS signature?

[snowgard]

Where is the car now? Did the bank hold the blue book? How much times him paid? Did your friend sell the car already?

In this case you can try to make a criminal case against him about scammed you!!! Because maybe him bought the car only for make it quick to money again.

In the first view it looks like a private case but if him never or just 3-4 times paid the debits it can be that him want scamming you from the beginning!!!

Otherwise it is a private case. In this case RUSSIAN INCASSO can help if they have a office here!!! ;-)

[mydee]

Why is it a typical Thai story, it happens all over the world. A relation of one of my family lost his farm after he guaranteed fellow farmers and they couldn't pay. An ex Chief judge of the Australian High Court was bankrupted because he went guarantor to his brother. People all over the world do the most stupid things financially.

Sounds like a typical Thai money story to me. People here (all skin colours) do the most stupid things sometimes and the only answer is never to lend them money or get involved in any way.

[Inepto Cracy]

Advise to everyone.

Never ever lend money to somebody expecting it back, not even to family members.

Never ever stand surety or guarantor for another persons debits, or non payments of monetary obligations, not even to family members.

Your friend is liable for the full debit, as she signed the Guarantor portion of the contract.

It is a legally binding contract.

Emotions and feelings count for nothing in a court of law. Courts only rely on fact/s.

Cut and dried, your friend is liable. End of story.

A lawyer will be of no help at all.

[bark]

I am your friends, friend.

I told him when he signed as a Guarantor, that I had a gambling problem.

I told him that I was going to screw him and the bank would take his house.

I know I am no good person.

Now I am asking for 53 million dollars; to help my good friend Conway West.

He will pay you back. I promise

[hawker9000]

If you have a good heart, you try to help

but now a whole family is in worry.

lets hope a court case will help

Can not be that the "friend" run away and can go on with gambling and cheating

If your friend signed as guarantor without understanding the meaning of that, and the personal risk involved, then that's entirely their fault. Based on those facts alone he has no grounds for a lawsuit. If there are technical issues with the debt instrument itself, that would be something for a legal specialist to assess.

If your friend signed as guarantor with no intent of honoring the debt in case of borrower default, that simply amounts to fraud.

[hawker9000]

If you have a good heart, you try to help

but now a whole family is in worry.

lets hope a court case will help

Can not be that the "friend" run away and can go on with gambling and cheating

If your friend signed as guarantor without understanding the meaning of that, and the personal risk involved, then that's entirely their fault. Based on those facts alone he has no grounds for a lawsuit. If there are technical issues with the debt instrument itself, that would be something for a legal specialist to assess.

If your friend signed as guarantor with no intent of honoring the debt in case of borrower default, that simply amounts to fraud.

It's cases like this that give rise to the urban myths about the big bad banks and evil, greedy bankers. Somebody signs an agreement and when they find they can't live up to their part of the bargain, suddenly it's all on the lender.

[Ulic]

Of course it is not fare but that is the roll of the guarantor. Something you really should not

do unless the car/property that is being bought is put in the guarantors name. All about trust.

If the person needing the money will not do this then don't sign as the guarantor.

[chilli42]

Yes it can be a court case..to try and convict your friend of insanity.

X3

[cyberfarang]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

Although sad, you or your friend won`t find any sympathizers on here. She signed her life away on the dotted line, even if it was done in good faith and the friend is the sweetest person on Earth.

Let this be a lesson to people that decide to stick their necks out and offer good deeds.

[Stevemercer]

There has been a case recently in the press where a Thai woman signed a contract to loan money, to complete a dentistry course at university. The contract said she had to work at the university for three years after she completed the course or else pay back 3 X the money. This seems to be a standard contract. A friend signed as guarantor.

Well, she completed the course, but then moved to the United States without paying back the debt (10 million Baht). The guarantor now must pay the $10 million Baht.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Tell your friend to try and make a deal with the bank, to repay the debt over time. Then your friend hire guys with muscles and debt collecting as their only occupation on their CV. (after that will be illegal for me to say what they must do). He will be wasting his or your money if tries to go the legal route. The legal fees will be more than the debt, with no guarantee that he will get his money back. Even if the crook decides to pay up he will not be able to do it now, thus your friend will still loose his house. If he rely on the crook to repay the bank directly he always run the risk of the crook stopping to pay and make a run for it. Either write the debt of or go to the dark side.

[ukrules]

Where is the car now? Did the bank hold the blue book? How much times him paid? Did your friend sell the car already?

In this case you can try to make a criminal case against him about scammed you!!! Because maybe him bought the car only for make it quick to money again.

In the first view it looks like a private case but if him never or just 3-4 times paid the debits it can be that him want scamming you from the beginning!!!

Otherwise it is a private case. In this case RUSSIAN INCASSO can help if they have a office here!!! ;-)

Good point, when there's a finance deal the official owner and therefore the owner in law is the finance company

So there's a car / multiple cars out there which would become owned should the debt be settled.

I suggest talking to the finance company.

Have you seen these documents ? I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is a ruse to get you to open your wallet.

[Janner1]

Your friend has NO recourse in law,if one signs as guarantor that is exactly what that person is and they will pay for the debt because in law they undertook to do this.

So do NOT waste your money in this direction, however, as has been said,chase down the original debtor and see how he is living, and if he has ANY property/cars whatever to his name and persue Him in the courts.

If you can prove to the finance company or bank that your friend is endeavouring in this way you MAY get a stay of execution of repossession on the house and in talking to them, if they agree a stay try to get them to stop or reduce the interest on the initial debt,they have already covered there costs so they might be amenable .

Now for the last thing you can do which may help you to recoup some or all of the loss.

If you can not stop the repo then your friend will be deemed a bankrupt, therefore keep your eye on what happens to the house because if YOU stay out of the line of fire and are not known to the bank or finance company you may be able to buy it back for considerably LESS than the debt value.

The bank / finance company have already made there money on this debt so they will be looking to off load the house quickly and if you can show them the money to buy they will sell it to you possibly for silly money, after which you can sell it on and make all of your money back and make a profit.

It is not worth throwing more money at this to pay off the debt because in doing so it will not make you or your friend the owner of the house,the original debtor will retain that and all on your friends money.

And he will dine out many times on the buffalo who bought his house for him, so don't do it.

I hope this helps you and your friend who obviously matters to you, good luck and dare I say it "lesson learned"

[ggt]

Signing a contract takes all of the emotion out of a transaction...it is what it is...you sign on the dotted line and suffer the consequences if thing go foul...

Sometimes one can re-negotiate a contract to bring the terms into a more reasonable chance to being completed to both parties satisfaction...

Many people have had to pay off other people's debt when they have co-signed a note...not fair you say? Don't sign on the dotted line...then whine about it!

[louse1953]

My rule is no guaranty for anybody,incuding and especially family.If they can't get it from a bank,there is a reason for that.

[louse1953]

If you have a good heart, you try to help

but now a whole family is in worry.

lets hope a court case will help

Can not be that the "friend" run away and can go on with gambling and cheating

Plenty of people make a living out of exactly that,as long as there are mugs like your friend.It's a harsh world.

[dotpoom]

What's not fair....your friend guaranteed her friend's loan....so, if friend 2 doesn't pay...then friend 1 has to pay. What would be the point of having a guarantor if they are never asked to "pay up" because it's "not fair"?

[louse1953]

to be more clear, there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car

'Just trying to be a good friend'. 'there was no business together, only guaranty for buy a car.'

Well your concern is nice. But these words have no meaning, there is no 'never mind' options when you sign a guarantee document. It's a legal and very binding document.

There is very very little chance a court will cancel a guarantee document unless your friend can very clearly prove she was forced to sign the document. The court officer needs to follow the law. A guarantee document is a serious document.

'Just trying to be a good friend' has no meaning whatever to the court.

Not good news, but that's it.

If the person who has not been paid takes the borrower to court, the court official will not change anything and will not make a court order for the borrower to pay up because it now involves gambling debts - an illegal activity.

End of case. Bye bye.

The court official might give the borrower a lecture about the evils of gambling and about getting other people into trouble but the court official will not cancel the guarantee, the court official can't do this.

Yes you are correct the gambler will probably just keep gambling and make more debts.

By the way, what details are on the guarantee document? is it somehow an open document? Why not take a copy to a lawyer and see if it's possible this gambler could use it again in some way. If yes then maybe you could ask the court to have it cancelled for any future use, but that would not cancel the existing situation.

Or, get a layer to write a clear letter, signed by you, stating that you now cancel the guarantee document from today. And pay for the lawyer to get a private detective or a serious debt collection agency to find the gambler and make him take your letter, read it and then force him to sign a receipt that he has received your letter and understands what it means.

I see only two other possibilities:

- Hire a serious debt collection agency to visit the family of the gambler and push them hard to pay his gambling debts.

- Hire a serious debt collection agency and pay them to find the gambler and force the gambler to pay the gambling debt, or just take his possessions and sell them to pay the outstanding gambling debt.

Dangerous - yes, you probably know that this could also bring serious life threatening revenge against your friend.

Ex friend now,surely.

[louse1953]

Why is it a typical Thai story, it happens all over the world. A relation of one of my family lost his farm after he guaranteed fellow farmers and they couldn't pay. An ex Chief judge of the Australian High Court was bankrupted because he went guarantor to his brother. People all over the world do the most stupid things financially.

Lil Johnny Howard(former PM of Aust)had to make a law up so the taxpayer would bailout the workers of his brothers bankraupt company.

Sounds like a typical Thai money story to me. People here (all skin colours) do the most stupid things sometimes and the only answer is never to lend them money or get involved in any way.

[Dumbastheycome]

As Guarantor your friend has no option but to pay the debt or forfiet the house. Defending/taking a Court case will only add cost. The "friend" who created this abuse of trust could be sued on the basis of that abuse but also long termed and unlikely to retreive costs.

A hard lesson . My wife and I only provide charity for food with food. Money and alcohol ........never!

[connda]

There's a sucker in every crowd.

[little mary sunshine]

After the fact, however this ay help the next person....When

I was 12 y/o my cousin asked my grandmother, who was quite

well off financially, to guarantee a small loan. She said absolutely

No! My cousin left upset. I asked her why she said no, she told me

If the bank or the loan company turned my cousin down, They are the

Professionals and if they say she is a poor risk, why should she take

On a,poor risk? At that time she told me, Never co-sign a loan,Guarantee,

At that point You are responsible to repay the loan. I have never co-signed

A loan for anyone, I have never had a problem paying for some one

Else's debt.

[wprime]

Your friend should pay back the 500,000. If your friend's friend has the money, recover it from him, if not, well she's learned a valuable lesson. Considering she's stupid enough to put her house down against a gambler's debts, the lesson is well worth the money.