Large classes vs small classes again

[Rhys]

Aloha

The question came up again for the pros and cons of large (over 100 students) vs small (less than 30) classes.

For example, option A a literature class consisting of poetry, short stories and novels is taught by three different instructor in 4 week sessions..( 12 week term) thus one class of 100 would have three different teacher.. comments

Next, option B, the same 100 students are broken up into 3 different class with an instructor who teachers all three literature subjects, comments.

Each teacher is a generalist in all three sections.

Which is the administrative solution? Which is teacher centered? Do you think students give a hoot?

Sorry to say this is from a uni that has general education classes of groups of 1000s... students.. yes that is right.. custodial care at time.

Students have the opportunity to develop as a "class" in smaller group, and are able to have "access to the instructor" more frequently. Students have the opportunity to interact with other students and group work and collaboration come naturally.

From an administrative point, those numbers cruncher will say it makes not different small or larger it is the same outcome.

What is your preference for class size, and why?

[sunnyjim5]

Attempting to "teach" a class of 100 will be guaranteed to end in failure.

OP! Are you really a Qualified Teacher and if so why is this question being asked ?

[Maybole]

I repeat, my granddaughter thrived when she was removed from a class of 48 to a class ot 22.

[SheungWan]

There are many variables to give the question less than a simple straightforward answer.

[Rhys]

There are many variables to give the question less than a simple straightforward answer.

An outcome from this type of class... sadly the higher ups, reviewed the final course student scores of this LARGE class system.. the scores are too low..Shock... and a "directive" has been given to ah..hemmm... improve them... double shock...

Really from an Administrative cost effectiveness (ADM Weenie perspective) this works, however, the students do not thrive in a large class of this type.. but this is education for the masses, the workers, and sadly, the way some universities deal with teaching shortages and in one case give the creator of such a program Teacher of the year for the outstanding pedagogy in English Language Learning.. Cambodia has overtaken Thailand...

The focus... bodies in seats, filling the spaces, paying the fees.. sad state of education.

Moving on...

[Morakot]

What is your preference for class size, and why?

There seems to be a continual confusion and rampant mis-management on this issue. The OP nicely mirrors this by talking about "classes"

The straight-forward and well-established solution is to have a clear distinction between lectures and tutorials (seminars or workshops).

You run lectures with 150- 300 students half the time. This is delivered by one lecturer -- ideally the one who is the convener and in charge. The remaining contact time you have interactive tutorials with about 15 participants, where you let them go though what was presented in the overview-type of lecture.

This is most resourceful way to deal with large numbers; undergraduate tutorials can be delivered by less qualified instructors. It requires large lecture halls and an administration with brains.

[Rhys]

What is your preference for class size, and why?

There seems to be a continual confusion and rampant mis-management on this issue. The OP nicely mirrors this by talking about "classes"

The straight-forward and well-established solution is to have a clear distinction between lectures and tutorials (seminars or workshops).

You run lectures with 150- 300 students half the time. This is delivered by one lecturer -- ideally the one who is the convener and in charge. The remaining contact time you have interactive tutorials with about 15 participants, where you let them go though what was presented in the overview-type of lecture.

This is most resourceful way to deal with large numbers; undergraduate tutorials can be delivered by less qualified instructors. It requires large lecture halls and an administration with brains.

That sounds great for the UK and other places, however, this is Thailand (TIT). Generally speaking teaching an English langauge class, let say with 500 students in the auditorium ...just does not work...even if it is a screening or busy work.

I am sure you have been in a large university class where students are on task with everything else but the lesson at hand. Giving them the venue to do this is defeating the value of education and in reality it is access to education.

Response to Q: For class size, I like about 30-40 students, you can break them up into smaller groups, and get to know the students. Also the students,seem to like it as well, it can be more interactive and they can travel about the room exchanging knowledge and at time wisdom as well.

[richard10365]

I've heard this happens in large universities in the United States.

[Rhys]

Agreed but it was Zoology ... class in CA.

[Scott]

During my undergraduate university years, I had some very large classes. I think I was in one that was around 300 students, another was about 150. We did have the advantage of having some very, very good professors, who knew there stuff and showed up for these lectures very well prepared. I don't remember the exact specifics, but we also met with Graduate Teaching Assistants in smaller groups (maybe around 15-20 students).

The combination of the two was excellent. We got a top-notch professor who knew his stuff and had a clear-cut curriculum. The lectures were not particularly interactive, although there was a Q&A period at the end. The smaller groups were very interactive with only a minimum amount of direction from the TA, who would make sure the discussion was about the previous lecture.

[Fookhaht]

Thai universities particularly have a tension between the motivations of economics and education – more so than western universities.

This tension has a huge bearing on decisions about class sizes here. Our university has general education classes of Conversational English with class sizes of 300 to 500 students. A total joke.

This was borne out by a quality inspection by the Ministry of Education of the top Thai universities about five years ago.

Disturbingly, 14 of 17 universities failed the quality control inspection.

The main criticism by the MOE: most of the universities had making a profit as the foremost consideration as revealed by their activities--and a quality education took a distant second place.

Things have not changed much in those five years.

[Scott]

Oh, goodness, 300 - 500 students in a language class? I took two different languages and I think we had less than 20 students in the class and a qualified teacher from the home country of the language. We also had to spend 4 hours per week in the language lab listening to and practicing the language.

Even the English classes at that time had relatively small classes. We had to do writing assignments each week and they were graded and returned by the next week and they were read carefully -- I don't recall having a misplaced comma, spelling mistake or grammar mistakes overlooked. God help you if your participles were dangling or your sentences ended with a preposition.

The literature and poetry classes were also quite small also with a fair amount of written work.

[DavisH]

Oh, goodness, 300 - 500 students in a language class? I took two different languages and I think we had less than 20 students in the class and a qualified teacher from the home country of the language. We also had to spend 4 hours per week in the language lab listening to and practicing the language.

Even the English classes at that time had relatively small classes. We had to do writing assignments each week and they were graded and returned by the next week and they were read carefully -- I don't recall having a misplaced comma, spelling mistake or grammar mistakes overlooked. God help you if your participles were dangling or your sentences ended with a preposition.

The literature and poetry classes were also quite small also with a fair amount of written work.

Things are certainly much different here. My wife's college rarely use tutorial groups. They simply don't have enough staff for this. There are far too many students.

In contrast, all my courses in Australia utilized tutorial groups, often using the lecturers themselves. All my assignments in my last teaching courses were greeted with at least a 2 page in-depth critique from my marker. Great stuff.

[Rhys]

I will somewhat miss the challenge and the ok, what I am going to do besides KAHOOT it activity for this Useless LARGE class babysitting guise of education.

 

Actually did this for years.. because the educational administrators, felt this was the biggest bang for the buck all the way to the bank.

 

Adios..