7 Killed in explosion at SCB Park Plaza in Bangkok

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Typical Thailand..

1. SCB blames the "reckless" contractor working in their HQ building for causing the deaths. But, just who hired the contractor? You'll notice their statement doesn't seem to make any mention of that.

2. The ThaiPBS report says the police are preparing to lodge criminal charges against the contractor. But the ThaiPBS report doesn't identify/name the actual contracting firm, nor does the ThaiPBS report even indicate any attempt to contact them for comment. But it does indicate Thai police were at the building this morning investigating the cause of the incident.

So apparently, just SCB telling the police/public what happened and why is enough for the police to start talking about criminal charges against the contractor, even though presumably they haven't even had a chance to complete their own investigation as yet.

Good deals all the way round.

[DGS1244]

Originally it was an explosion then a fire then activation of a Halon extinguishing system now it is a FM200 system, all very different. If FM200 then no one would have been in the room during an activation, nothing to do with a Halon. The cylinders, not tanks, should have been locked off before any work started. Sounds like they were allowed to work without a work permit??? or did not follow one.

[Bear78]

Butterfly effect.... ?

[midasthailand]

In a perfect world, there would have been a JSA first then a Permit to work would have been issued and the fire suppression system isolated. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and accidents do happen, as we so often see in the Oil and Gas and mining industries.

The Police chief mentioned Halon, FM200 and CO2 in the same article, I would recommend that the first thing they do is Get the Facts straight!

Halon was banned many years ago for it's damaging effect on the ozone layer, FM200 was fitted on Australian warships but at high enough temperatures (such as an engine room fire), it can become a very nasty acid that eats through engine components and fire protective suits, it was also found to be carcinogenic. CO2 is very effective, however, if you are in the space when it is released, without breathing apparatus(SCBA), then you die,

Current trend is to go to water mist, which has several pros, it extinguishes the fire by both smothering and cooling it can be used in electrical compartments and you never run out of the extinguishing medium (H2O), it also leaves no mess to clean up. Having said that, there is a good chance you will not survive if you are in the space when it is activated.

All of the above systems are supposed to have a time delay from the moment of activation and during that delay (usually 30-45 seconds) there will be an alarm sounding and often a flashing amber light to warn personnel in the space to evacuate using EEBD (emergency escape breathing device). EEBD should be available in all spaces that have fixed fire suppression systems fitted!

Very sad that people have died as a result of poor HSE practices. RIP to all those that died and condolences to their friends and families.

Remember people this is NOT about Thailand, it happens all over the world and is generally as a result of people not following (or knowing) correct procedures.

By the way I am an instructor in Management of major emergencies for the Oil and Gas industry.

Edited March 14, 2016 by midasthailand

[SOTIRIOS]

...it was written that they were moving carpets and someone might have accidentally triggered it....

...does not sound like much of a security switch....

[stoneyboy]

In a perfect world, there would have been a JSA first then a Permit to work would have been issued and the fire suppression system isolated. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and accidents do happen, as we so often see in the Oil and Gas and mining industries.

The Police chief mentioned Halon, FM200 ans CO2 in the same article, I would recommend that the first thing they do is Get the Facts straight!

Halon was banned many years ago for it's damaging effect on the ozone layer, FM200 was fitted on Australian warships but at high enough temperatures (such as an engine room fire it can become a very nasty acid that eats through engine components and fire protective suits, CO2 is very effective however if you are in the space when it is released without breathing apparatus(SCBA) then you die,

Current trent is to go to water mist, several pros, it extinguishes the fire by both smothering and cooling it can be used in electrical compartments and you never run out of the extinguishing medium (H2O).

Very sad that people have died as a result of poor HSE practices. RIP to all those that died and condolences to their friends and families.

Remember people this is NOT about Thailand, it happens all over the world and is generally as a result of people not following (or knowing) correct procedures.

But generally after such disasters/industrial accidents lessons are learned and improvements are made.

Some of the most severe incidents such as the Piper Alpha disaster in the North Sea lead to a major overhaul of safety procedures resulting in most of the systems that are currently in place today,permit to work,lock and tag out,risk assessment,offshore installation manager,safety case etc.

Will any improvements be implemented due to this disaster,it's highly unlikely isn't it.

Condolences to the family's and persons who perished in a needless industrial accident.

[Traveller45]

Seems the Thai papers are reporting the death from suffocation and not explosion.

Not explosion of hydrogen tanks, but leaks from tank(s) of the Halon system is the cause of death.

Hydrogen has nothing to do with Halon fire suppression systems, and Halon itself is inert.

"Halon is a liquefied, compressed gas that stops the spread of fire by chemically disrupting combustion. Halon 1211 (a liquid streaming agent) and Halon 1301 (a gaseous flooding agent) leave no residue and are remarkably safe for human exposure. Halon is rated for class "B" (flammable liquids) and "C" (electrical fires), but it is also effective on class "A" (common combustibles) fires. Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 are low-toxicity, chemically stable compounds that, as long as they remain contained in cylinders, are easily recyclable".

Perhaps there will be technical investigation?

...while Halon itself is not toxic, it displaces oxygen, as an earlier poster correctly stated, hence its extinguishing feature. In a closed confinement such as a cellar, you are dead.

[gandalf12]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

So does it not become a narcotic in confined spaces.

Halon 1310 has been banned around the world for years. It removed the oxygen which is how it extinguishes the fire

Edited March 14, 2016 by gandalf12

[lvr181]

strange this exploded at 10.00pm .... was someone working on it at that time ?

there needs to be more safety adopted around gas cylinders and the likes .....

it's not rocket science but it is rocket fuel !!

Well, dear Steven.

There are people who work outside regular office hours.

Maybe working on safety issues is done outside working hours in other countries as well?

Check it out.

;-)

Oh, and is this freakin facebook, packed with juveniles clicking LIKE on each and every post???

Awww........ Travel2003 - Steven was probably a public servant. Give him a break

[lvr181]

Condolences to family and friends of the deceased. I wish those injured a speedy and full recovery.

A terrible preventable tragedy.

[DGS1244]

Halon is a good fire extinguishing agent mainly used for electronics. It is not particularly dangerous when expelled and does not 'smother' a fire, but interrupts it's chain reaction. Just trying to stop the crazy ignorant statements here. Thirty years firefighting in US and abroad.

So does it not become a narcotic in confined spaces.

Halon 1310 has been banned around the world for years. It removed the oxygen which is how it extinguishes the fire

Wrong again, it has only been banned by signatories to the Montreal convention, some countries did not sign, Thailand for one. Halon also does not extinguish the fire by excluding oxygen although that helps but by a chemical reaction with the flame front.

[springheeled jack]

a tragedy that should never have happened caused by total ineptness the contractor in charge of this should have realised the dangers obviously wasn't clever enough hence the tragedy rip to those who died.

[melovethai]

This system was either

1. not isolated until the job was completed

2. Function and safety checks where not completed satisfactory when the ststem was energised.

2.Not installed correctly with the correct control system in place.

This does not only happen in Thailand and it is a very sad accident that may have been avoided.

[Benmart]

Very sad and prayers to the deceased and their families.

There are many hazards in life. Some man-made and some are self-made.

In this case, I know only what I read. Further comments would be conjecture.

[Artisi]

If not an explosion, why the hell does Thaivisa leave the headline for this thread as

"7 Killed in explosion at SCB Park Plaza in Bangkok"

Guess it attracts attention and increases the click count.

[Bobotie]

This system was either

1. not isolated until the job was completed

2. Function and safety checks where not completed satisfactory when the ststem was energised.

2.Not installed correctly with the correct control system in place.

This does not only happen in Thailand and it is a very sad accident that may have been avoided.

Or 4. The system was accidently triggered per a similar case in a new york city bank in a records room and the clerk died

If you going your state possibilites you need to state them all in order to determine the most likely root cause, in your points 1 to 3 your have already decided without evidence that there was an issue with they system itself and havent looked at in possible human factors which are typically the cause of accidents in approximately 80% of the cases

[gemguy]

Does anyone remember the Propane Tank fire ball explosion back in 1989...I think....that happened on Phetchaburi road....during rush hour traffic that was at a complete stand still and no where to move or go when the fireball engulfed several blocks distance up and down the road

Now that was nasty, nasty, nasty....and very sad indeed.

Surprisingly, the company that caused the accident actually accepted full responsibility and accountability as best they could but could not cover all the costs of the wide spread damage that occurred from that awful event.

The owner was distraught.

Also, after that, the government at the time actually came down hard on natural gas and propane transportation companies that were forced to comply with more stringent safety codes relevant to the safe transportation of such potentially dangerous fuels and more or less copy and adhere to the same standards of compliance practiced in numerous other countries.

Who ever was in charge at that time....They did a fair enough job on forcing compliance because 1 and 2 years later I remember seeing a lot more proper Natural Gas and LPG and Propane bulk carrier trucks and even knew about one company that was flourishing because the forced safety compliance created a demand for fuel transport vehicles that they were making as part of their transportation truck manufacturing activities.

But you still see some pretty mickey mouse rigs carrying fuel cylinders of various sorts around ...but not like it used to be.

Cheers

[Bobotie]

In a perfect world, there would have been a JSA first then a Permit to work would have been issued and the fire suppression system isolated. Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world and accidents do happen, as we so often see in the Oil and Gas and mining industries.

The Police chief mentioned Halon, FM200 and CO2 in the same article, I would recommend that the first thing they do is Get the Facts straight!

Halon was banned many years ago for it's damaging effect on the ozone layer, FM200 was fitted on Australian warships but at high enough temperatures (such as an engine room fire), it can become a very nasty acid that eats through engine components and fire protective suits, it was also found to be carcinogenic. CO2 is very effective, however, if you are in the space when it is released, without breathing apparatus(SCBA), then you die,

Current trend is to go to water mist, which has several pros, it extinguishes the fire by both smothering and cooling it can be used in electrical compartments and you never run out of the extinguishing medium (H2O), it also leaves no mess to clean up. Having said that, there is a good chance you will not survive if you are in the space when it is activated.

All of the above systems are supposed to have a time delay from the moment of activation and during that delay (usually 30-45 seconds) there will be an alarm sounding and often a flashing amber light to warn personnel in the space to evacuate using EEBD (emergency escape breathing device). EEBD should be available in all spaces that have fixed fire suppression systems fitted!

Very sad that people have died as a result of poor HSE practices. RIP to all those that died and condolences to their friends and families.

Remember people this is NOT about Thailand, it happens all over the world and is generally as a result of people not following (or knowing) correct procedures.

By the way I am an instructor in Management of major emergencies for the Oil and Gas industry.

I am going to challange your first sentance as think your assuming it was the fire supression system that was being worked on, if earlier reports are correct and the system was set off by people moving or offload a carpet, surely your not suggesting a PTW /JSA / LOTO would be required to hump a carpet ?

[Bobotie]

Does anyone remember the Propane Tank fire ball explosion back in 1989...I think....that happened on Phetchaburi road....during rush hour traffic that was at a complete stand still and no where to move or go when the fireball engulfed several blocks distance up and down the road

Now that was nasty, nasty, nasty....and very sad indeed.

Surprisingly, the company that caused the accident actually accepted full responsibility and accountability as best they could but could not cover all the costs of the wide spread damage that occurred from that awful event.

The owner was distraught.

Also, after that, the government at the time actually came down hard on natural gas and propane transportation companies that were forced to comply with more stringent safety codes relevant to the safe transportation of such potentially dangerous fuels and more or less copy and adhere to the same standards of compliance practiced in numerous other countries.

Who ever was in charge at that time....They did a fair enough job on forcing compliance because 1 and 2 years later I remember seeing a lot more proper Natural Gas and LPG and Propane bulk carrier trucks and even knew about one company that was flourishing because the forced safety compliance created a demand for fuel transport vehicles that they were making as part of their transportation truck manufacturing activities.

But you still see some pretty mickey mouse rigs carrying fuel cylinders of various sorts around ...but not like it used to be.

Cheers

Your really shouldnt be posting things like full responsibility, accountability and Thai in the same sentence, you will have the thai resident experts saying your lying and choking on their Leos and somtam

[lostinisaan]

Some more people who have left relatives and friends. My deepest condolences. May they rest in PEACE.

[lostinisaan]

If not an explosion, why the hell does Thaivisa leave the headline for this thread as

"7 Killed in explosion at SCB Park Plaza in Bangkok"

Guess it attracts attention and increases the click count.

Whatever attracts more people is convenient.

[Tywais]

If not an explosion, why the hell does Thaivisa leave the headline for this thread as

"7 Killed in explosion at SCB Park Plaza in Bangkok"

Simple, the headline and the quote are direct from an online news media source not Thaivisa. We can not change it for copyright reasons unless the source changes it . If you want to complain then go to www.khaosodenglish.com and inform them you are not happy with it. Let us know what they say.

[soistalker]

X problem happens in Y countries, too.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/feb/13/marines-exposed-halon-gas-training-accident

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7718156.stm

Accidents happen, it's not just a Thai thing.

[arend]

"Acting metropolitan police commissioner Pol Lt Gen Sanit Mahathavorn said this morning that the police were prepared to file charge against the contractor for causing deaths and injuries to others for carelessness.
He said forensic police were inspecting the area this morning to look into the actual cause of the tragedy."

Huh???? They're filing charges before they even know the cause of the accident or who is actually responsible? This is too bizarre... No wonder why backtracking and losing face are such constant issues here....

[dcutman]

"Acting metropolitan police commissioner Pol Lt Gen Sanit Mahathavorn said this morning that the police were prepared to file charge against the contractor for causing deaths and injuries to others for carelessness.

He said forensic police were inspecting the area this morning to look into the actual cause of the tragedy."

Huh???? They're filing charges before they even know the cause of the accident or who is actually responsible? This is too bizarre... No wonder why backtracking and losing face are such constant issues here....

Yes the police do seem quick to park the bus on the contractor.

Of course nobody has asked why these people were trapped in this space and why it took the fire department 30 minutes to cut the door open.

Even in a secure area, the doors should automatically unlock when a system like this activates. Not saying that the contractors has fault as well, but it is also the responsibility of the owner of the property and govt agencies that a fire protection system will not kill its own people in any event.

This could have happen anytime since this system was installed, but instead of contractor workers it would have been bank employees.

[smutcakes]

Did they ever find what was responsible for the fire a couple of years ago at SCB where there was a sudden combustion in a file room when an investigation was ongoing over some scandal? Or was that brushed under the carpet.

RIP to those who died and condolences to their families.

[tuanku]

He said forensic police were inspecting the area this morning to look into the actual cause of the tragedy.

Are they going for a re-enactment this time I wonder?

[SantiSuk]

SCB immediately blamed the contractor and announced that it would be business as usual at the branch the following day.

I prefer not to publicly lambast Thais and Thailand so form your own conclusions in that one!

Edited March 15, 2016 by SantiSuk

[Bobotie]

"Acting metropolitan police commissioner Pol Lt Gen Sanit Mahathavorn said this morning that the police were prepared to file charge against the contractor for causing deaths and injuries to others for carelessness.

He said forensic police were inspecting the area this morning to look into the actual cause of the tragedy."

Huh???? They're filing charges before they even know the cause of the accident or who is actually responsible? This is too bizarre... No wonder why backtracking and losing face are such constant issues here....

Not bizarre in the least, for those who have spent any time in Thailand will be aware of the fact when deal with the BIB the person or entity is presumed to be gulity until proven innocent which differs from the western concept of innocent until proven guilty

Not so bizarre now is it...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Given the way things are going around here these days, I'd wager it's unlikely we'll ever get a thorough, really accurate account of just what happened here and why. All the moreso in this case because SCB is the major entity involved, and they have connections that would make it very unlikely for them to end up being blamed for these needless deaths.

So many questions, and no answers forthcoming as yet:

Who was the contractor, what kind of contractor were they, and how did carpet movers manage to set off the fire control system (if any of that account bears any resemblance to reality)?

Regardless of what exact kind of fire system was involved, what about the supposed emergency breathing apparatus that are supposed to be available in that kind of environment? AFAICT, absolutely no mention of their presence or of any of the survivors having survived as a result of using them.

Was there, as one poster above mentioned, some kind of alarm and warning triggered by the system BEFORE the fire retardent materials were released that was supposed to give those present a chance to evacuate in time, and if so, why didn't/couldn't they?

If work was being done in the area by contractors, why wasn't the fire control system locked down at the time? etc etc etc....

I see the BKK Post is saying the contractor here was hired to upgrade the building's fire suppression system, and quotes a police official as saying SCB had hired the contractor and that contractor turned around and hired a subcontractor to do the actual work.

The Post report names the main contractor that was hired, but not the actual subcontractor doing the work.

It quotes SCB's president as saying the work was to change the building's system from a pyrogen to a nitrogen based system.

Edited March 15, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK