police raids on bars

[anto]

Laurie Simmons a foreign volunteer at the Muang Police Station spoke at the CM Expats Club meeting this past Saturday, 26 March. In response to the question of whether we need to carry our passports and whether a Thai Driver License serves as a good replacement, he said that in the case of the recent police raid at Zoe In Yellow and at Spicy's the next night, Thai Drivers Licenses were not acceptable because they do not prove current visa status. Nor is a copy of just the photo page of the passport acceptable.

He said that all foreigners who either produced their passport or a copy of their passport photo page AND pages that documented their visa, entry stamps, permission to stay, 90 day report (if needed) etc were not detained. It was acceptable to show officers images from a mobile phone. Those who could not provide this documentation were taken to the police station and held until they were able to provide their passports.

So apparently, they don't have the ability to "look up" your details just by using the info on your TDL.

They dont on the street ,but back at the Police station they should be able to .

[opalred]

wow how people get carried away over nothing

14yrs ago lived with a girl for yrs had 2 places in centre cm that were sex joints

she paid police money when ever they called

today she has 3shops

its not about you

if the bar or sex shop dont pay money you will get a visit by police just to make a problem for the bar or shop

nothing has changed

[heybruce]

The OP is:

"was told by my friend police checking bars tonight was this right is it because of songkran"

Nothing about passport checks, and nothing more from the poster, who appears to be new to this forum. It also doesn't say where these checks took place; police checks of Thai ID's to find underage drinkers are common in the Nimmanhamin area. Is it possible people are getting excited over nothing?

i was told by a lady that works at the dragonfly bar police were checking the girls id cards one of them was from maymar and had no thai id card and the owner had to pay them off

I don't spend much time on Loi Kroh, but I suspect this is pretty routine and not connected with Songkran.

I wasn't criticizing your post, it's harmless enough. But just look at all the excitement and speculation that results when you put the words "police" and "bars" in the title.

[luke000]

The OP is:

"was told by my friend police checking bars tonight was this right is it because of songkran"

Nothing about passport checks, and nothing more from the poster, who appears to be new to this forum. It also doesn't say where these checks took place; police checks of Thai ID's to find underage drinkers are common in the Nimmanhamin area. Is it possible people are getting excited over nothing?

i was told by a lady that works at the dragonfly bar police were checking the girls id cards one of them was from maymar and had no thai id card and the owner had to pay them off

I don't spend much time on Loi Kroh, but I suspect this is pretty routine and not connected with Songkran.

I wasn't criticizing your post, it's harmless enough. But just look at all the excitement and speculation that results when you put the words "police" and "bars" in the title.

Actually, its pretty much unheard off ,of bars in Loi Kroh getting raided

[Mickeem]

The OP is:

"was told by my friend police checking bars tonight was this right is it because of songkran"

Nothing about passport checks, and nothing more from the poster, who appears to be new to this forum. It also doesn't say where these checks took place; police checks of Thai ID's to find underage drinkers are common in the Nimmanhamin area. Is it possible people are getting excited over nothing?

i was told by a lady that works at the dragonfly bar police were checking the girls id cards one of them was from maymar and had no thai id card and the owner had to pay them off

I don't spend much time on Loi Kroh, but I suspect this is pretty routine and not connected with Songkran.

I wasn't criticizing your post, it's harmless enough. But just look at all the excitement and speculation that results when you put the words "police" and "bars" in the title.

Actually, its pretty much unheard off ,of bars in Loi Kroh getting raided

That is because the BIB know there is no chance of finding girls under 20 interested in working the 'falang' bars

Plenty in the Thai places though..

[jonwilly]

Just over a month ago before I left for the seaside, I was pulled over on my scooter by a Police squad. I immediately produced my drivers licence and the officer knew me of old.

We laughed together as he rubbed my stomach and I stuck out my hand and said 20 Baht.

As I pulled away his associate said Passport, but I was off and gone.

I noticed them in my rear view mirror, having a talk, as I vanished into the distance.

john

[luke000]

Just over a month ago before I left for the seaside, I was pulled over on my scooter by a Police squad. I immediately produced my drivers licence and the officer knew me of old.

We laughed together as he rubbed my stomach and I stuck out my hand and said 20 Baht.

As I pulled away his associate said Passport, but I was off and gone.

I noticed them in my rear view mirror, having a talk, as I vanished into the distance.

john

If he charged you 20 Baht to tickle your stomach, what would he do for 50 Baht ?

[arunsakda]

Let's see. March 20 rule changes, terror attacks overseas prompting announcement of airport/transport security "enhancement". Holiday coming up.

If one hits the bars might be a good idea to carry passport or photocopy next couple of weeks. I'd reckon they might come out again en masse for checks some night soon.

Edited March 29, 2016 by arunsakda

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Laurie Simmons a foreign volunteer at the Muang Police Station spoke at the CM Expats Club meeting this past Saturday, 26 March. In response to the question of whether we need to carry our passports and whether a Thai Driver License serves as a good replacement, he said that in the case of the recent police raid at Zoe In Yellow and at Spicy's the next night, Thai Drivers Licenses were not acceptable because they do not prove current visa status. Nor is a copy of just the photo page of the passport acceptable.

He said that all foreigners who either produced their passport or a copy of their passport photo page AND pages that documented their visa, entry stamps, permission to stay, 90 day report (if needed) etc were not detained. It was acceptable to show officers images from a mobile phone. Those who could not provide this documentation were taken to the police station and held until they were able to provide their passports.

Lots of people liking this post.

It may be good to remind yourself that this is not a country of laws, and the modus operandi can and does often get made up on the spot.

Even the words of senior police officers -be they of a reassuring or warning nature- have a shelf-life of about a day, and apply only then and there to the way that particular officer interprets the rules, depending on his mood.

And then to take the words of a Farang "police volunteer" at face value is even sillier, other than that I believe him when he described how that particular Raid was carried out. The next one? Place your bets. Police volunteers get so attached to the uniform and playing cop that they'll support and defend the actions on the RTP regardless of any morals or common sense. "They're just there to assist". Right.

So yes, carry a copy and take a phone pic for good measure, but you mileage will vary and people can and do get unlucky.

Words. Of. Officials. Mean. Nothing.

(As it relates to the future, and the future started this morning.)

Edited March 29, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[BritManToo]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

Edited March 29, 2016 by BritManToo

[luke000]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

There have been no reports of the Police asking foreigners for money in these raids .

You are just making that up

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

Yes, though I'd like to add that the opposite of timid, submissive and fearful is not necessarily an aggressive or confrontational stance. (Not saying that you're advocating this, it's just something I'd like to add.)

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions, but keep sipping that drink and doing what you normally do in bars.

If they want to take your picture: smile and make a Thai selfie-pose of your choice. (V sign, 'gun pose', thumbs up, etc.) The pictures tend to be for internal use, to show that they've done something.

Edited March 29, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai

[ramrod711]

After I read the article on Thai Visa regarding mandatory carrying of ones passport, I went to the copy/laminating shop in KSK, paid 40 baht for a laminated card with photo page on one side and visa page on the other. Job done, in compliance and the laminated card fits nicely in my wallet.

[FolkGuitar]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

Where did you get your information? I didn't read anything anywhere about police extortion aimed at foreigners or Thais during these raids.

Please back up your comments with references.

[BritManToo]

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions,

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Edited March 29, 2016 by BritManToo

[WinnieTheKhwai]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

Where did you get your information? I didn't read anything anywhere about police extortion aimed at foreigners or Thais during these raids.

Please back up your comments with references.

I don' think this needs explaining, but just in case someone genuinely doesn't understand: bothering customers is a great way to impact a business and squeeze them, to get a lot more cooperative in whatever is asked... It doesn't mean asking for money right then and there.

Why else do you think they do it? Encourage tourism?

[luke000]

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions,

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Rather than just being evasive, why dont you just co-operate ?

[luke000]

As Winnie says, these raids are about extortion and not about the law.

The police on the spot will say anything they think they can get away with in order to extort money from the foreigner.

The more timid, submissive or fearful you appear to be, the more forceful their effort will be to extort money from you.

Where did you get your information? I didn't read anything anywhere about police extortion aimed at foreigners or Thais during these raids.

Please back up your comments with references.

I don' think this needs explaining, but just in case someone genuinely doesn't understand: bothering customers is a great way to impact a business and squeeze them, to get a lot more cooperative in whatever is asked... It doesn't mean asking for money right then and there.

Why else do you think they do it? Encourage tourism?

The allegation was that the Police are extorting money from foreigners, that is what he said.

To back that claim up, you are saying that the Police are doing it to extort money from bar owners, which is completely different to the original allegation

[FolkGuitar]

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions,

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Is it quicker than if you just showed them your ID? Perhaps you just prefer to create problems...

[mamborobert]

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions,

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Is it quicker than if you just showed them your ID? Perhaps you just prefer to create problems...

I think sometimes it can be. The ID produced can always be deemed insufficient to that particular officers needs or desires on that particular instance. Sometimes producing photocopy works sometimes not, same for passport on occasions especially if there are ulterior motives. As others have pointed out enforcement of laws are not fixed, there is no consistency.

My father used to capitalise on the general Thai belief that every westerner spoke English to some degree. He would smile, shrug his shoulders, use open body language.......and only talk in Latin. He was always dealt with quicker than myself or waived thru, despite me having multiple ID formats(including Thai).

Producing ID does not automatically mean end of issue. But for minor matters feigned ignorance with a smile can work wonders (when in Thailand do as.......).

Edited March 29, 2016 by mamborobert

[luke000]

^ Its quite cleat what is required. Either your passport or a copy of your passport .

Maybe in some instances, giving the "me not specka de inglish" , may get you a pass, but I really dont think it would work when a bar is being raided. there would be the possibility that they would cart you off to the Police station to get an interpretor

[anto]

After I read the article on Thai Visa regarding mandatory carrying of ones passport, I went to the copy/laminating shop in KSK, paid 40 baht for a laminated card with photo page on one side and visa page on the other. Job done, in compliance and the laminated card fits nicely in my wallet.

Give that man a clap on the back .

[FolkGuitar]

I think a relaxed stance, exactly in between amused and bemused is best.

By all means follow directions,

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Is it quicker than if you just showed them your ID? Perhaps you just prefer to create problems...

I think sometimes it can be. The ID produced can always be deemed insufficient to that particular officers needs or desires on that particular instance. Sometimes producing photocopy works sometimes not, same for passport on occasions especially if there are ulterior motives. As others have pointed out enforcement of laws are not fixed, there is no consistency.

My father used to capitalise on the general Thai belief that every westerner spoke English to some degree. He would smile, shrug his shoulders, use open body language.......and only talk in Latin. He was always dealt with quicker than myself or waived thru, despite me having multiple ID formats(including Thai).

Producing ID does not automatically mean end of issue. But for minor matters feigned ignorance with a smile can work wonders (when in Thailand do as.......).

I suppose that the situation you describe can happen. There are obtuse policemen in every country.

In the past 70 years I've been in about 35 different countries, the last 15 years here in Thailand, and never met one yet.

So I'm going to stick with just showing my ID when asked. That's worked pretty well so far.

However, if I ever encounter the problems you describe, I try your method. It's good to have options.

[fey]

I don't speak any Thai, and I can't understand any English spoken by Thais.

You'd be amazed how quickly Thai officials want to get rid of me.

I'm as cooperative as someone who has no idea can be.

If I could only understand their directions, I would be more than pleased to follow them.

('I'm sorry I don't understand what you want', my own version of 'arai na')

Is it quicker than if you just showed them your ID? Perhaps you just prefer to create problems...

I think sometimes it can be. The ID produced can always be deemed insufficient to that particular officers needs or desires on that particular instance. Sometimes producing photocopy works sometimes not, same for passport on occasions especially if there are ulterior motives. As others have pointed out enforcement of laws are not fixed, there is no consistency.

My father used to capitalise on the general Thai belief that every westerner spoke English to some degree. He would smile, shrug his shoulders, use open body language.......and only talk in Latin. He was always dealt with quicker than myself or waived thru, despite me having multiple ID formats(including Thai).

Producing ID does not automatically mean end of issue. But for minor matters feigned ignorance with a smile can work wonders (when in Thailand do as.......).

I suppose that the situation you describe can happen. There are obtuse policemen in every country.

In the past 70 years I've been in about 35 different countries, the last 15 years here in Thailand, and never met one yet.

So I'm going to stick with just showing my ID when asked. That's worked pretty well so far.

However, if I ever encounter the problems you describe, I try your method. It's good to have options.

would definately want to show that id promply when faced with automatic weapons. no complaints from me. but it does not make for a nice night out.

[Konini]

Well, your passport number links to your arrival record and everything else.

So by plugging it into their incredible online systems they'd quickly see if you're on overstay; better actually than some grainy photocopy.

It's not an exact science though.. police can and do make up the rules on the spot.

Still, with both a driver's license and passport copy you'd have to be very unlucky indeed for them to hassle you.

Mr K carries his driver's licence, but he would have a problem - dual nationality. When he got his licence, years ago, he used his Australian passport because we had entered the country on it. When he got to the magical age to get his retirement visa, for various complicated reasons he used his British passport. We really should sort out the kind of miniature laminated card with photo page one side and visa the other side that FolkGuitarist has mentioned a couple of times. He refuses to have a smart phone and his ancient Nokia doesn't hold photo's.

(And I never have my phone in the bedroom, so he'd be in the clink until the next morning when I see I have missed calls and see that I have to take his passport to the station.)

[LivinLOS]

Well, your passport number links to your arrival record and everything else.

So by plugging it into their incredible online systems they'd quickly see if you're on overstay; better actually than some grainy photocopy.

It's not an exact science though.. police can and do make up the rules on the spot.

Still, with both a driver's license and passport copy you'd have to be very unlucky indeed for them to hassle you.

Mr K carries his driver's licence, but he would have a problem - dual nationality. When he got his licence, years ago, he used his Australian passport because we had entered the country on it. When he got to the magical age to get his retirement visa, for various complicated reasons he used his British passport. We really should sort out the kind of miniature laminated card with photo page one side and visa the other side that FolkGuitarist has mentioned a couple of times. He refuses to have a smart phone and his ancient Nokia doesn't hold photo's.

(And I never have my phone in the bedroom, so he'd be in the clink until the next morning when I see I have missed calls and see that I have to take his passport to the station.)

Similarly some of us carry 2 passports and or burn through them in less years than a Thai DL.. I know my DL doesnt have my passport number on it..

[Konini]

^^ That is true - we juggle two passports and they only last us about 3 years each, of course every new one has a new number. Anyone holding a passport for more than 10 years after getting their licence (or less, in some countries you have to renew passports after 5 years) will not have a licence connected to their passport number.

[NancyL]

Laurie Simmons a foreign volunteer at the Muang Police Station spoke at the CM Expats Club meeting this past Saturday, 26 March. In response to the question of whether we need to carry our passports and whether a Thai Driver License serves as a good replacement, he said that in the case of the recent police raid at Zoe In Yellow and at Spicy's the next night, Thai Drivers Licenses were not acceptable because they do not prove current visa status. Nor is a copy of just the photo page of the passport acceptable.

He said that all foreigners who either produced their passport or a copy of their passport photo page AND pages that documented their visa, entry stamps, permission to stay, 90 day report (if needed) etc were not detained. It was acceptable to show officers images from a mobile phone. Those who could not provide this documentation were taken to the police station and held until they were able to provide their passports.

Lots of people liking this post.

It may be good to remind yourself that this is not a country of laws, and the modus operandi can and does often get made up on the spot.

Even the words of senior police officers -be they of a reassuring or warning nature- have a shelf-life of about a day, and apply only then and there to the way that particular officer interprets the rules, depending on his mood.

And then to take the words of a Farang "police volunteer" at face value is even sillier, other than that I believe him when he described how that particular Raid was carried out. The next one? Place your bets. Police volunteers get so attached to the uniform and playing cop that they'll support and defend the actions on the RTP regardless of any morals or common sense. "They're just there to assist". Right.

So yes, carry a copy and take a phone pic for good measure, but you mileage will vary and people can and do get unlucky.

Words. Of. Officials. Mean. Nothing.

(As it relates to the future, and the future started this morning.)

Winnie's right in reminding us that I was writing about what Laurie Simmons said was acceptable to the police as I.D. in two situations -- the police raids at Zoe in Yellow and at Spicy's the next evening. No where in my post did I present what he said as "the gospel truth" about what would be totally acceptable in ALL situations throughout Thailand.

Note that nothing in Winnie's post implies that the purpose of the raids was to extract bribes from foreigners. Nor were there any reports of that happening.

Personally, I'm concerned about these "raids" being conducted during legal hours for alcohol consumption and wonder when they'll bust down the door of my neighborhood wine bar and European restaurant anytime soon, banishing semi-automatic weapons. Many of the guys on the bar stools are over age 80, so the situation could be dangerous.

Personally, I carry my passport at all times -- unless I'm running an errand to one of the shops in my condo. But, as a U.S. citizen, it's fairly easy for me to replace it if it's lost or stolen. Were I from another country, I'd have a different opinion. I've seen what the Brits have to go thru to replace lost passports. I don't blame them for not wanting to carry their passports at all times.

[luke000]

Note that nothing in Winnie's post implies that the purpose of the raids was to extract bribes from foreigners. Nor were there any reports of that happening.

We were referring to Brit tims post number 46, where he claimed as such

He said that the reason for the raids was to make foreigners pay bribe money, we all seem to agree that that is a false allegation

[LivinLOS]

Note that nothing in Winnie's post implies that the purpose of the raids was to extract bribes from foreigners. Nor were there any reports of that happening.

We were referring to Brit tims post number 46, where he claimed as such

He said that the reason for the raids was to make foreigners pay bribe money, we all seem to agree that that is a false allegation

Unless you look big picture...

Pressure on businesses to 'comply' and in turn pay bribes.. Paid for by the business provided by customers..

So often every aspect of high prices we pay in imported goods includes a bribe factor.. I was talking to someone who imports commercially and the bribe rates he has to pay, to not get messed around, are eye watering..