Black Box TV

[Dario]

Jonathan, may I ask why this thread is locked? If anyone clicks on FAQ, they're all dead links! Don't lock this thread, please!

[2fishin2]

I also dont know what is going on. The thread was deleted as it is an illegal box and now it has reappeared. Warning do not purchase this specific model box as the company is using freeware Kodi to stream media which is against the owner's (Kodi) policy.

[stoneyboy]

I also dont know what is going on. The thread was deleted as it is an illegal box and now it has reappeared. Warning do not purchase this specific model box as the company is using freeware Kodi to stream media which is against the owner's (Kodi) policy.

It was advertised by Thai Visa on their email news letter.

Maybe that's why it's reinstated.

[Dario]

I also dont know what is going on. The thread was deleted as it is an illegal box and now it has reappeared. Warning do not purchase this specific model box as the company is using freeware Kodi to stream media which is against the owner's (Kodi) policy.

Woaw, this box is illegal, but is promoted by Thaivisa Forum. Maybe we have to ask George to look into this. I'm not anymore interested, not in illegal offers.

Jonathan is not answering on my PM, maybe he lives in another time zone, so I have sent a PM to George.

[stoneyboy]

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Dario - not answered your PM? I replied to you on two separate occasions.

We questioned the legality of the Black Box, this is the reply we got from the advertiser:

Hi

I think this article is useful in terms of the legal aspects of streaming content at a glance. http://www.cbc.ca/ne...aming-1.3455524

Our device is essentially an android tablet with many social media apps including Facebook, Twitter, Skype - it can be used as a mini computer with the addition ion a wireless keyboard and mouse.

We also provide a customised version of KODI https://kodi.tv/about/ , a legal, open source multimedia software. The installation contains no copyrighted content or links to sites which stream copyrighted content. This is very important as the sale of a device which is advertised as ‘fully loaded’ (many examples of this on eBay, FaceBook, etc) do. When the user installs the device the library is completely empty but upon the initialisation of our ‘update wizard’, the user is able to download libraries (add ons )contain links to certain streaming sites which are legal in their own jurisdiction - nothing more than bookmarks saved in a browser. These sites are run and operated from countries which do not have any copyright laws

• Afghanistan.

• Eritrea.

• Ethiopia.

• Iran.

• Iraq.

• San Marino.

• Turkmenistan

The installation of these libraries is a user action, therefore the device as sold is nothing more than a TV compatible Android device, the absence of any copyrighted material or even the links to sites https://www.facebook.../projectfreetv/ as sold renders the sale of the device just as legal as selling any hardware product.

There are four main reasons why the sale of these boxes may fall foul of copyright laws

1/ The device is pre-installed with links to sites which contain copyright material https://www.facebook.../projectfreetv/

2/ The product is advertised using copyrighted brands such as BBC, Sky, etc (most other products do this) http://www.amazon.co...O/dp/B013WR4JTK 3/ (Grey) The retailer charges ongoing fees to access this content which is arguably charging a fee to access protected content. http://www.expattv.net/

4/ Downloading from bit torrent sites where the user is storing and also rebroadcasting (seeding and downloading) is illegal - our device does not allow for bit torrent.

As our product does not fall into any of the categories above it is perfectly legal and according to FACT there have been no instances of any prosecutions arising from viewing streaming content.

It is also worth mentioning that the Black Box application is only a small part of the functionality of the hardware and users can also download official apps from the Google Play Store such as Netflix, Crackle, etc.

There is absolutely no reason why, based upon current copyright laws, our product would be prohibited from sale or use. We are a UK based company operating since 2011 and we operate strictly within the law.

[Eclipse]

I also dont know what is going on. The thread was deleted as it is an illegal box and now it has reappeared. Warning do not purchase this specific model box as the company is using freeware Kodi to stream media which is against the owner's (Kodi) policy.

Woaw, this box is illegal, but is promoted by Thaivisa Forum. Maybe we have to ask George to look into this. I'm not anymore interested, not in illegal offers.

Jonathan is not answering on my PM, maybe he lives in another time zone, so I have sent a PM to George.

A bit pointless as George is nothing to do with ThaiVisa anymore.

[Dario]

I also dont know what is going on. The thread was deleted as it is an illegal box and now it has reappeared. Warning do not purchase this specific model box as the company is using freeware Kodi to stream media which is against the owner's (Kodi) policy.

Woaw, this box is illegal, but is promoted by Thaivisa Forum. Maybe we have to ask George to look into this. I'm not anymore interested, not in illegal offers.

Jonathan is not answering on my PM, maybe he lives in another time zone, so I have sent a PM to George.

A bit pointless as George is nothing to do with ThaiVisa anymore.

???

How would I know? What happened to George?

[TheCruncher]

Dario - not answered your PM? I replied to you on two separate occasions.

We questioned the legality of the Black Box, this is the reply we got from the advertiser:

Hi

I think this article is useful in terms of the legal aspects of streaming content at a glance. http://www.cbc.ca/ne...aming-1.3455524

Our device is essentially an android tablet with many social media apps including Facebook, Twitter, Skype - it can be used as a mini computer with the addition ion a wireless keyboard and mouse.

We also provide a customised version of KODI https://kodi.tv/about/ , a legal, open source multimedia software. The installation contains no copyrighted content or links to sites which stream copyrighted content. This is very important as the sale of a device which is advertised as ‘fully loaded’ (many examples of this on eBay, FaceBook, etc) do. When the user installs the device the library is completely empty but upon the initialisation of our ‘update wizard’, the user is able to download libraries (add ons )contain links to certain streaming sites which are legal in their own jurisdiction - nothing more than bookmarks saved in a browser. These sites are run and operated from countries which do not have any copyright laws

• Afghanistan.

• Eritrea.

• Ethiopia.

• Iran.

• Iraq.

• San Marino.

• Turkmenistan

The installation of these libraries is a user action, therefore the device as sold is nothing more than a TV compatible Android device, the absence of any copyrighted material or even the links to sites https://www.facebook.../projectfreetv/ as sold renders the sale of the device just as legal as selling any hardware product.

There are four main reasons why the sale of these boxes may fall foul of copyright laws

1/ The device is pre-installed with links to sites which contain copyright material https://www.facebook.../projectfreetv/

2/ The product is advertised using copyrighted brands such as BBC, Sky, etc (most other products do this) http://www.amazon.co...O/dp/B013WR4JTK 3/ (Grey) The retailer charges ongoing fees to access this content which is arguably charging a fee to access protected content. http://www.expattv.net/

4/ Downloading from bit torrent sites where the user is storing and also rebroadcasting (seeding and downloading) is illegal - our device does not allow for bit torrent.

As our product does not fall into any of the categories above it is perfectly legal and according to FACT there have been no instances of any prosecutions arising from viewing streaming content.

It is also worth mentioning that the Black Box application is only a small part of the functionality of the hardware and users can also download official apps from the Google Play Store such as Netflix, Crackle, etc.

There is absolutely no reason why, based upon current copyright laws, our product would be prohibited from sale or use. We are a UK based company operating since 2011 and we operate strictly within the law.

So if I understand this post correctly, Black box sells an android device with a basic Kodi installation, then points you to the download site where you can download the build which they themselves have uploaded there.

So to point you to that download site they charge you a premium of about 100 GBP at the least?

Of course you can just buy the very same box from Ebay or a brick and mortar shop, for less than 25 GBP or buy a much better box for a little extra, and then google Black box build and install the build, or any other freely available build as there are plenty, and pocket the premium.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Android-Tv-Box-Bluetooth-CS918-Quad-Core-1080P-1G-8G-K3188T-XBMC-Kodi-loaded-with-Remote/32637480228.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.278.ABAq2p&

I have googled it for you already, and in fact it is the very first result on Google, so below it is completely free of charge. You are of course always welcome to " donate " 75 GBP to my account.

http://tutorial-iptv-xbmc.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-black-box-build-wizard-add-on-for.html

Oh by the way, their claim that the sites are run from countries like Afghanistan or Iran or the like is just another of their blatant lies, because you can trace the IP addresses to which the addons link, and most are run from UK and US servers, but actually they have servers even in Singapore.

Please also be aware that some of the content they stream is copyrighted in Thailand, as there are the CTH Stadiums and several True visions programs.

[2fishin2]

You are wrong. Kodi is upset that people are using their copywrited name to sell these boxes. Why don't you write the Kodi team and ask them what they think about what the Black Box company is selling, then post their answer. That would get to the bottom if this very quickly. On second thought I think I will do it for you.

[Chicog]

Blackbox is crap, you're better buying a box and doing it yourself.

I posted to this effect in the Computers thread.

[JHolmesJr]

^^ +1…Amen

[jaffacakes1]

Blackbox is crap, you're better buying a box and doing it yourself.

I posted to this effect in the Computers thread.

On what basis is it crap? Do you own one?

Also, where is KODI mentioned?

You can indeed buy a box and install similar software but it is a constantly moving market so unless you have the time to remove and add sources, optimise the add ons and have the time to invest building it in the first place, the premium is well worth it. Unlike any other products, Black Box has the ability to update its own software so dead links and sources are removed and new ones added.

I guess is it all subjective, some people build their own PC's from parts because it is cheaper, where others prefer to purchase a fully tested, warrantied and supported device.

If you've got the time, knowledge and desire then build your own version the more power to you - but it's a little unfair to be so negative about a product you have absolutely no knowledge about.

[Chicog]

Why would I own one? Blackbox is just a Kodi Build with some fancy wallpaper and addons you can download yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Q5rPC2LEk

All these scammers are doing is sticking it on a cheap Android box and charging suckers 125 quid for it.

[jaffacakes1]

That is a completely different product and nothing to do with BBTV. So you are criticising the wrong product which you have no experience of anyway. Useful.

[TheCruncher]

Blackbox is crap, you're better buying a box and doing it yourself.

I posted to this effect in the Computers thread.

On what basis is it crap? Do you own one?

Also, where is KODI mentioned?

You can indeed buy a box and install similar software but it is a constantly moving market so unless you have the time to remove and add sources, optimise the add ons and have the time to invest building it in the first place, the premium is well worth it. Unlike any other products, Black Box has the ability to update its own software so dead links and sources are removed and new ones added.

I guess is it all subjective, some people build their own PC's from parts because it is cheaper, where others prefer to purchase a fully tested, warrantied and supported device.

If you've got the time, knowledge and desire then build your own version the more power to you - but it's a little unfair to be so negative about a product you have absolutely no knowledge about.

I you had bothered to read the reply from the advertiser you would have read this.

We also provide a customised version of KODI

Then if you had followed up on my reply to it you would also have noticed that the exact same box can be purchased for 24 GBP, delivered to your doorstep, and that the build can be downloaded completely for FREE and will also update at the very same time as the one you pay 100 GBP premium for.

I even included the links where to buy and download the build.

And by the way the box is indeed crap, I have a CS918 and it is utter crap, or why do you think they are sold for little over 1000 Baht?

[jaffacakes1]

That was a reply from the advertiser and not promotional . Looking on the website I cannot see any mention of KODI. Hence not using KODI to sell products. That particular hardware works great. The BBTV build is not available for download as it is commercially supported software with new builds being released every few weeks. The link is to a skin which shares the same name. Anyone that uses KODI will know how quickly these add ons rise and fall (remember Genesis)? Building and maintaining these devices on your own is a pretty big undertaking.

[2fishin2]

Blackbox is crap, you're better buying a box and doing it yourself.

I posted to this effect in the Computers thread.

On what basis is it crap? Do you own one?

Also, where is KODI mentioned?

You can indeed buy a box and install similar software but it is a constantly moving market so unless you have the time to remove and add sources, optimise the add ons and have the time to invest building it in the first place, the premium is well worth it. Unlike any other products, Black Box has the ability to update its own software so dead links and sources are removed and new ones added.

I guess is it all subjective, some people build their own PC's from parts because it is cheaper, where others prefer to purchase a fully tested, warrantied and supported device.

If you've got the time, knowledge and desire then build your own version the more power to you - but it's a little unfair to be so negative about a product you have absolutely no knowledge about.

Lets help you out....

We do own "boxes" and the are quality ones made my the leader in the box industry Minix.

Kodi is "mentioned" it is shown in the both advertisement pics.

This is nothing but another one of the box scammers where they use Kodi, make or steal another person's "build" and try to pass this off as their's. Anybody who uses and is observant can see through this ripp off advertisement.

You might be able to fool yourself or others but people who are knowledgeable in the subject know much better.

Kodi has said time and time again this is a violation of their trademark. Dont believe me, write Kodi and ask.

[2fishin2]

That was a reply from the advertiser and not promotional . Looking on the website I cannot see any mention of KODI. Hence not using KODI to sell products. That particular hardware works great. The BBTV build is not available for download as it is commercially supported software with new builds being released every few weeks. The link is to a skin which shares the same name. Anyone that uses KODI will know how quickly these add ons rise and fall (remember Genesis)? Building and maintaining these devices on your own is a pretty big undertaking.

Look at the bottom of the main screen. You will see the word Kodi on the RSS feed which signifies it as a customized Kodi build. Also, the IVUE screenshot is from a KODI ADDON.

The advertiser and company arent very smart which is typical of these ripp off box sellers.

[jaffacakes1]

I don't think the fact that this is a customised build of KODI was ever in dispute? In fact this was clearly referenced in the advertisers response. The point being that the KODI trademark is not being used to advertise the product. If a company are able to provide fully supported, tested, customised and regularly updated product then I don't expect them to do that for free. Paying for a service is not being 'ripped off', I guess you just expect everything in life to be free. Given that cable costs in Thailand are up to 2,500 BHT a month, a one off payment of £112.50 is an absolute bargain in my book.

[2fishin2]

I don't think the fact that this is a customised build of KODI was ever in dispute? In fact this was clearly referenced in the advertisers response. The point being that the KODI trademark is not being used to advertise the product. If a company are able to provide fully supported, tested, customised and regularly updated product then I don't expect them to do that for free. Paying for a service is not being 'ripped off', I guess you just expect everything in life to be free. Given that cable costs in Thailand are up to 2,500 BHT a month, a one off payment of £112.50 is an absolute bargain in my book.

What they are doing is exactly what Kodi is trying to stop. Using the software either in advertisement or physically on boxes to retail to unsuspecting consumers. They are using the freeware, putting it in cheap boxes and then SELLING KODI'S FREEWARE FOR A PROFIT. It isnt hard to understand if you want to.

What is happening is these guys are doing this and then going out of business or either not responding to their customers. Then the customers are going to Kodi's site and complaining when they get no support from the dealer. These box sellers are truly screwing things up for everybody all because of their own selfish greed.

Please don't try and put words in my mouth or try and turn the story in another direction.

[Chicog]

I don't think the fact that this is a customised build of KODI was ever in dispute? In fact this was clearly referenced in the advertisers response. The point being that the KODI trademark is not being used to advertise the product. If a company are able to provide fully supported, tested, customised and regularly updated product then I don't expect them to do that for free. Paying for a service is not being 'ripped off', I guess you just expect everything in life to be free. Given that cable costs in Thailand are up to 2,500 BHT a month, a one off payment of £112.50 is an absolute bargain in my book.

Given that you could have bought an Amazon Fire TV stick for 30 quid and got it up and running with movies and TV in less than an hour, I've guessing you're one of the mugs who bought one of these without realising you were being had over.

[Chicog]

That was a reply from the advertiser and not promotional . Looking on the website I cannot see any mention of KODI.

As was posted, if you knew anything about Kodi you would have recognised the iVue EPG screen straight away.

Tip: When you're already in a hole, stop digging.

[jaffacakes1]

Article 5 of Directive 2001/29/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 22 May 2001 on the harmonisation of certain aspects of copyright and related rights in the information society must be interpreted as meaning that the copies on the user’s computer screen and the copies in the internet ‘cache’ of that computer’s hard disk, made by an end-user in the course of viewing a website, satisfy the conditions that those copies must be temporary, that they must be transient or incidental in nature and that they must constitute an integral and essential part of a technological process, as well as the conditions laid down in Article 5(5) of that directive, and that they may therefore be made without the authorisation of the copyright holders.

https://easystream.ie/is-streaming-legal/

It's amazing how many legal and technology experts there are on this forum.

[canthai55]

Hardly ever watch TV. Have heard that it Dumbs you Down. Seems I am not alone ...

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/watching-tv-dumb-cambridge-study-television-suggests-turn-off/

[stoneyboy]

I love a nice black box.

[jaffacakes1]

Black Box Television do not create the actual add on's and no copyright material is pre-installed within the software thus no copyright content is infringed. As per the European directive, watching streaming content is perfectly legal.

The KODI trademark is not being used to PROMOTE the product which was my point, not that it was not a KODI system. Of course KODI are going to distance themselves from any accusations of enabling piracy. They are a business.

It is true that nobody can guarantee that the signals can be there tomorrow which is precisely why a DIY system will be obsolete within a few months. These add on's disappear and reappear under different names (look at Genesis/Exodus). This requires regular monitoring and OTA updates to the build which no KODI resellers are able to do as it not a function of KODI and requires significant development (coding) time. This is the difference between a build and a skin.

The vast majority of online TV services in Thailand charge a monthly fee for support, updates and service. If anyone is ripping customers off, it isn't the guys providing the ongoing services for free!

[2fishin2]

Black Box Television do not create the actual add on's and no copyright material is pre-installed within the software thus no copyright content is infringed. As per the European directive, watching streaming content is perfectly legal.

The KODI trademark is not being used to PROMOTE the product which was my point, not that it was not a KODI system. Of course KODI are going to distance themselves from any accusations of enabling piracy. They are a business.

It is true that nobody can guarantee that the signals can be there tomorrow which is precisely why a DIY system will be obsolete within a few months. These add on's disappear and reappear under different names (look at Genesis/Exodus). This requires regular monitoring and OTA updates to the build which no KODI resellers are able to do as it not a function of KODI and requires significant development (coding) time. This is the difference between a build and a skin.

The vast majority of online TV services in Thailand charge a monthly fee for support, updates and service. If anyone is ripping customers off, it isn't the guys providing the ongoing services for free!

They are using Kodi to sell their box! Dont you get it? This is nothing more than a build/skin. Who made it? Who knows? Its very plain to see the words KODI on the front advertisement screen from the KODI RSS FEED. Also the IVUE EPG IS A KODI ADDON. You are one hard headed individual.

Its obvious you have something to do with the illegal side of this argument.

[jaffacakes1]

KODI is freeware and it is perfectly legal to sell a Box with KODI installed providing you do not infringe their trademark. Hence 'free'ware The text on an RSS feed is not an infringement. None of your other points are in dispute!