US activists try to calm fears over transgender bathroom access

[Publicus]

The self-called "independent" rightwingers find all kinds of questions to ask the liberal progressives while they give a free ride to the rightwhingenuts. They're independent of any balanced approach, nothing more. The fundamental issues are clear.

For instance, the Alabama State Supreme Court chief judge that ordered probate judges not to issue marriage certificates in violation of Scotus has now been charged by the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission comprised of other Alabama judges with violating judicial ethics and his oath of office.....

Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was charged by the Judicial Inquiry Commission Friday with violating Canons of Judicial ethics over his attempt earlier this year to stop probate judges from issuing same-sex marriage licenses.

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/politics/southunionstreet/2016/05/06/roy-moore-faces-new-judicial-inquiry-commission-charges/84054184/

The guy had already been removed in 2002 for violating the US Constitution by refusing to remove a tablet of the Ten Commandments from the courthouse grounds. Now he's about to become an unemployed judge again for violating the US Constitution.

Too bad the North Carolina legislature and governor seem to be immune from any judicial counterbalancing. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center which brought the Alabama suit to that Commission is hard at work in NC to bring the 14th Amendment to bear in this constitutional case along with other legal precedents rooted in the civil war and the destruction of slavery, and later the Jim Crow laws right up to the present.

The overlap and interrelationship of 'em is unmistakable in the NC bogus law and in the development of a more civil society. Those who beat around the bush do have their own overlapping agenda.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Publicus

[lannarebirth]

The self-called "independent" rightwingers find all kinds of questions to ask the liberal progressives while they give a free ride to the rightwhingenuts. They're independent of any balanced approach, nothing more. The fundamental issues are clear.

For instance, the Alabama State Supreme Court chief judge that ordered probate judges not to issue marriage certificates in violation of Scotus has now been charged by the Alabama Judicial Inquiry Commission comprised of other Alabama judges with violating judicial ethics and his oath of office.....

Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore was charged by the Judicial Inquiry Commission Friday with violating Canons of Judicial ethics over his attempt earlier this year to stop probate judges from issuing same-sex marriage licenses.

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/politics/southunionstreet/2016/05/06/roy-moore-faces-new-judicial-inquiry-commission-charges/84054184/

The guy had already been removed in 2002 for violating the US Constitution by refusing to remove a tablet of the Ten Commandments from the courthouse grounds. Now he's about to become an unemployed judge again for violating the US Constitution.

Too bad the North Carolina legislature and governor seem to be immune from any judicial counterbalancing. However, the Southern Poverty Law Center which brought the Alabama suit to that Commission is hard at work in NC to bring the 14th Amendment to bear in this constitutional case along with other legal precedents rooted in the civil war and the destruction of slavery, and later the Jim Crow laws right up to the present.

The overlap and interrelationship of 'em is unmistakable in the NC bogus law and in the development of a more civil society. Those who beat around the bush do have their own overlapping agenda.

I guess you're talking to me, huh? So, what do you want to know specifically?

[Jingthing]

Toilets now the focus of the right wing's BACKLASH politics.

Thought we were through with WEDGE social issues?
Think again.

It’s easy enough to write these groups off as anachronisms, but backlash politics flourish in an environment in which deeply held beliefs suddenly become taboo. “The polling data that deals with the average Americans’ acceptance of gays and lesbians—at a certain point it went above 50 percent and continued to rise, and at that point there was no turning back,” Boston says. “There was a large number of people who said they knew someone who was gay. I don’t know that that’s happened with the transgender community. I think the religious right still sees them as vulnerable.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/05/how_bathrooms_became_the_new_battleground_of_the_religious_right.html

Edited May 7, 2016 by Jingthing

[Maestro]

Conservative men storm women's toilets at Target to challenge retailer's transgender policy

By Mary Papenfuss

May 4, 2016 01:38 BST

A group of men from a right-wing organisation is targeting women's restrooms in giant retailer Target to challenge the chain's policy of allowing transgender people to use the toilet corresponding to the gender of their choice.

The American Family Association (AFA) is calling the action a test of the policy. Heterosexual non-transgendered males are not intended to be part of the new Target position, but straight male "testers" in women's restrooms have not been stopped from entering, according to the organisation, reports TPM.

"We've already had people ... going into Targets and men trying to go into bathrooms. There is absolutely no barrier," said a shocked Sandy Rios of AFA.

Read more: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/conservative-men-storm-womens-toilets-target-challenge-retailers-transgender-loo-policy-1558082

-- International Business Times 2016-05-04

[Dagnabbit]

Just seen a video on Face Book where a lesbian is thrown out of the womens toiltet by 3 police men... as she has no ID to prove that she is not a man. and all the women in there are actually trying to help this poor woman and telling the police to leave her alone and its crazy to need ID to use the toilet!!!!

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/04/28/shocking-video-shows-lesbian-unable-to-prove-gender-being-forcibly-removed-from-womens-bathroom/

That wasnt a lesbian or rather, that was a hormonally adjusted female. Hence the deep voice and masculine features.

She was hanging around in the toilets for long enough for someone to both call the police and them to arrive and get recorded by her friend.

In all likeliness, she, or an associate called the cops to manufacture the incident.

[Dagnabbit]

Conservative men storm women's toilets at Target to challenge retailer's transgender policy

By Mary Papenfuss

May 4, 2016 01:38 BST

A group of men from a right-wing organisation is targeting women's restrooms in giant retailer Target to challenge the chain's policy of allowing transgender people to use the toilet corresponding to the gender of their choice.

The American Family Association (AFA) is calling the action a test of the policy. Heterosexual non-transgendered males are not intended to be part of the new Target position, but straight male "testers" in women's restrooms have not been stopped from entering, according to the organisation, reports TPM.

"We've already had people ... going into Targets and men trying to go into bathrooms. There is absolutely no barrier," said a shocked Sandy Rios of AFA.

Read more: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/conservative-men-storm-womens-toilets-target-challenge-retailers-transgender-loo-policy-1558082

-- International Business Times 2016-05-04

Did they stage a sit-in?

[Jingthing]

These "conservative" men are clearly totally ignorant men. They obviously don't have clue one about what it actually means to be a transgender person.

To add, the American Family Association is an anti-GLBT hate group. They have a long record of being against GLBT civil rights of all kinds.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Jingthing

[Puccini]

When a child is born in the USA, a medical doctor or perhaps a midwife assigns a gender to the newborn and this gender assignment is officially recorded and in some states, counties or municipalities this record is perhaps also accessible to the public.

With transgenders, I understand it is the transgender who assigns the new gender to itself and nothing goes on an official or public record. Is it really enough for a man to say "I feel like a woman; I am a transgender" to acquire the legal right under US law to use female toilets and changing rooms in public buildings? Are there no official regulations or guidelines on this subject in the USA?

Generally speaking, not every unequal treatment is discriminatory. For example, the fact that as a general rule men are not allowed to use female toilets,and vice-versa, is a clear discrimination on the basis of gender but it is not illegal because no law forbids it. The anti-discrimination laws specify the groups of people, often minorities, against whom and in what settings discrimination is illegal. (http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/what-is-discrimination.html)

Outside of the limits defined by anti-discrimination laws it can be said that discrimination is only illegal when it is arbitrary, ie it is not illegal when all persons in the same situation are discriminated in the same manner and in equal measure. However, this is a moot point in this topic because the USA has laws to protect transgenders and other groups from discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation. This brings me back to the question: on whose verification or judgement, on the basis of what written record does a person officially become become a member of a particular group deserving of protection from discrimination under the prevailing laws and regulations?

[lannarebirth]

These "conservative" men are clearly totally ignorant men. They obviously don't have clue one about what it actually means to be a transgender person.

To add, the American Family Association is an anti-GLBT hate group. They have a long record of being against GLBT civil rights of all kinds.

I think demonstrations like this are pointless and counterproductive and seem overly confrontational. That said, I don't have a clue what it means to be a transgender person either. I understand about the people who pursue surgical and hormonal therapies to "become" the other gender, but I don't get this "identity" thing at all. Maybe that transgender identity community has done a poor job of explaining how choosing an identity differs from say, psychosis or delusion. I'm sure you'll find that comparison insulting, but sometimes it is important to see yourself as others see you in order to reach understanding.

[Puccini]

As an example of the type of guidelines in the USA I am enquiring about, below are some excerpts from a UK guide for service providers.

if someone adopts a new gender role by changing their name, title and pronoun and/or by wearing different clothing, altering their body language, speech and hairstyle, they have reassigned their gender. As part of their gender reassignment some people may choose to take hormones and/or have surgery, but medical intervention is not an essential part of gender reassignment.

Trans people come from all walks of life and include those who may describe themselves as transsexual, transgender, a cross-dresser (transvestite), non-binary and anyone else who may not conform to traditional gender roles.

• Try not to assume someone’s gender simply by their appearance.
• Assume everyone selects the facilities appropriate to their gender.
• A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms) appropriate to the gender in which they present.

Are there similar clearly worded guidelines in the USA?

Edited May 7, 2016 by Puccini

[chuckd]

When a child is born in the USA, a medical doctor or perhaps a midwife assigns a gender to the newborn and this gender assignment is officially recorded and in some states, counties or municipalities this record is perhaps also accessible to the public.

With transgenders, I understand it is the transgender who assigns the new gender to itself and nothing goes on an official or public record. Is it really enough for a man to say "I feel like a woman; I am a transgender" to acquire the legal right under US law to use female toilets and changing rooms in public buildings? Are there no official regulations or guidelines on this subject in the USA?

Generally speaking, not every unequal treatment is discriminatory. For example, the fact that as a general rule men are not allowed to use female toilets,and vice-versa, is a clear discrimination on the basis of gender but it is not illegal because no law forbids it. The anti-discrimination laws specify the groups of people, often minorities, against whom and in what settings discrimination is illegal. (http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/what-is-discrimination.html)

Outside of the limits defined by anti-discrimination laws it can be said that discrimination is only illegal when it is arbitrary, ie it is not illegal when all persons in the same situation are discriminated in the same manner and in equal measure. However, this is a moot point in this topic because the USA has laws to protect transgenders and other groups from discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation. This brings me back to the question: on whose verification or judgement, on the basis of what written record does a person officially become become a member of a particular group deserving of protection from discrimination under the prevailing laws and regulations?

"With transgenders, I understand it is the transgender who assigns the new gender to itself and nothing goes on an official or public record. Is it really enough for a man to say "I feel like a woman; I am a transgender" to acquire the legal right under US law to use female toilets and changing rooms in public buildings? Are there no official regulations or guidelines on this subject in the USA?"

The following link will provide the information you seek.

Birth certificates can be changed in 47 of the 50 states. Only Idaho, Ohio and Tennessee will not change a birth certificate.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/changing-birth-certificate-sex-designations

[Puccini]

Thank you, chuckd. A new birth certificate stating the new gender makes it clear cut, black and white. That's how it should be, I think, not the wishy-washy way that apparently exists in the UK and perhaps also elsewhere.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Puccini

[chuckd]

A couple of interesting items in today's news.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Students and parents sue school district over biological male access to girl's locker room

Chicago Tribune

May 7, 2016 at 6:45 am

A group of suburban students and parents is suing the U.S. Department of Education and Illinois’ largest high school district after school officials granted a transgender student access to the girls locker room.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court Wednesday, the group contends that the actions of the Department of Education and Palatine-based Township High School District 211 “trample students’ privacy” rights and create an “intimidating and hostile environment” for students who share the locker rooms and restrooms with the transgender student.

“Students have an expectation of privacy in restrooms and locker rooms, and that expectation is violated when a school puts the opposite-sex student in those kinds of private and intimate facilities,” said Jeremy Tedesco, attorney with Alliance Defending Freedom, a religious legal advocacy group representing the plaintiffs.

http://www.gopusa.com/?p=9569?omhide=true

-------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Schools such as Mizzou, Brown, Harvard, and the University of Wyoming will host lavender graduations, according to the Human Rights Campaign.

Victoria Stroup

Missouri Campus Correspondent

Apr 29, 2016 at 11:00 AM EDT

Over 100 colleges and universities will be hosting a separate graduation ceremony for LGBTQ and ally students this spring.

According to the Human Rights Campaign, the “Lavender Graduation” (a reference to the pink triangles Nazis forced gay men to wear) will take place on at least 124 college campuses in the United States in the coming weeks.

The graduations are intended to “provide a sense of community for minority students who often experience tremendous culture shock at their impersonalized institutions.”

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=7537

[Chicog]

The first item has been brewing a while now.

The issue began in December 2013, when Student A filed a complaint with the Education Department against Township High School District 211, based in the village of Palatine, Ill.

The complaint alleged that District 211 had discriminated against the transgender student on the basis of sex.

After completing an extensive investigation, the Education Department’s Office of Civil Rights said on Dec. 2 that Township High School District 211 was in violation of federal law for refusing to grant Student A full access to the girls’ locker room.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/04/50-families-sue-over-illinois-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy/

[Credo]

It seems that a lot of conservatives have toilet issues.

I have no idea how the human race has existed for the past 10,000 + years without this being a big issue. Thanks for making it one.

[Jingthing]

CNN poll shows a majority of Americans oppose the bathroom bigot laws:

The survey found 57 percent of respondents were against laws which would require transgender people to use bathrooms that did not correspond with their gender identity.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2016/5/09/poll-most-americans-oppose-bathroom-bills

[thaibeachlovers]

Too bad the anti-GLBT bigot N.C. governor can't stand for reelection right now. Somehow I think the voters of his state won't be pleased with the massive amount of federal funds his state will be losing by insisting on their HATE law. Maybe these southern states that insist on these BIGOT laws want to secede from the UNION again?

I have no anti or pro feelings on the issue- it's just doing a pee or a poo after all ( what the heck does it matter if it's segregated by having or not having a penis- except I'd be really POd if I had to q for a stall instead of just using a urinal ), not the end of civilization as we know it.

So what will the pro crowd do when the perverts use the new law to have a cheap thrill, and you can be sure they want the new law? Create a whole load of new criminals?

Something I've noticed recently- no one is having a laugh anymore- the PC crowd have effectively banned humour from the media except for garbage not funny at all so called comedy shows. No more Goons, no more Monty Python- far too racist/ bigoted/ sexist ( and whatever else you can think of that's against the new world order ).

[thaibeachlovers]

The first item has been brewing a while now.

The issue began in December 2013, when Student A filed a complaint with the Education Department against Township High School District 211, based in the village of Palatine, Ill.

The complaint alleged that District 211 had discriminated against the transgender student on the basis of sex.

After completing an extensive investigation, the Education Department’s Office of Civil Rights said on Dec. 2 that Township High School District 211 was in violation of federal law for refusing to grant Student A full access to the girls’ locker room.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/05/04/50-families-sue-over-illinois-high-schools-transgender-bathroom-policy/

No problem really, let student A use the girl's toilets and let the girls do a Single White Female number on him. That'll be the end of the matter .

[thaibeachlovers]

As an example of the type of guidelines in the USA I am enquiring about, below are some excerpts from a UK guide for service providers.

if someone adopts a new gender role by changing their name, title and pronoun and/or by wearing different clothing, altering their body language, speech and hairstyle, they have reassigned their gender. As part of their gender reassignment some people may choose to take hormones and/or have surgery, but medical intervention is not an essential part of gender reassignment.

Trans people come from all walks of life and include those who may describe themselves as transsexual, transgender, a cross-dresser (transvestite), non-binary and anyone else who may not conform to traditional gender roles.

• Try not to assume someone’s gender simply by their appearance.
• Assume everyone selects the facilities appropriate to their gender.
• A trans person should be free to select the facilities (such as toilets or changing rooms) appropriate to the gender in which they present.

Are there similar clearly worded guidelines in the USA?

By the deity, I have the answer. Just store up a load of sperm for future use and exterminate all those that want to be men. Problem solved.

[thaibeachlovers]

These "conservative" men are clearly totally ignorant men. They obviously don't have clue one about what it actually means to be a transgender person.

To add, the American Family Association is an anti-GLBT hate group. They have a long record of being against GLBT civil rights of all kinds.

I think demonstrations like this are pointless and counterproductive and seem overly confrontational. That said, I don't have a clue what it means to be a transgender person either. I understand about the people who pursue surgical and hormonal therapies to "become" the other gender, but I don't get this "identity" thing at all. Maybe that transgender identity community has done a poor job of explaining how choosing an identity differs from say, psychosis or delusion. I'm sure you'll find that comparison insulting, but sometimes it is important to see yourself as others see you in order to reach understanding.

I sometimes think that if the cavemen living a daily battle merely to survive knew what their descendants were to become they would just give up and become extinct .

[thaibeachlovers]

When a child is born in the USA, a medical doctor or perhaps a midwife assigns a gender to the newborn and this gender assignment is officially recorded and in some states, counties or municipalities this record is perhaps also accessible to the public.

With transgenders, I understand it is the transgender who assigns the new gender to itself and nothing goes on an official or public record. Is it really enough for a man to say "I feel like a woman; I am a transgender" to acquire the legal right under US law to use female toilets and changing rooms in public buildings? Are there no official regulations or guidelines on this subject in the USA?

Generally speaking, not every unequal treatment is discriminatory. For example, the fact that as a general rule men are not allowed to use female toilets,and vice-versa, is a clear discrimination on the basis of gender but it is not illegal because no law forbids it. The anti-discrimination laws specify the groups of people, often minorities, against whom and in what settings discrimination is illegal. (http://civilrights.findlaw.com/civil-rights-overview/what-is-discrimination.html)

Outside of the limits defined by anti-discrimination laws it can be said that discrimination is only illegal when it is arbitrary, ie it is not illegal when all persons in the same situation are discriminated in the same manner and in equal measure. However, this is a moot point in this topic because the USA has laws to protect transgenders and other groups from discrimination on the basis of their sexual orientation. This brings me back to the question: on whose verification or judgement, on the basis of what written record does a person officially become become a member of a particular group deserving of protection from discrimination under the prevailing laws and regulations?

Perhaps it's time to start assigning gender based on genes. That is the only guaranteed way of defining gender. If, after that, someone wants to wear a dress, by all means do so, but don't claim to BE the other sex.

Personally, I think as women have been wearing men's clothes for decades it's time to accept men wearing clothes that are normally worn by females without getting into the whole "gender" thing. I've never seen women being discriminated against for wearing men's clothes ( in the west- in Saudi a woman would never wear men's clothes in public ).

[Puccini]

It was Chicog, I believe, who posted that all but three states of the USA issue new birth certificates to transgenders stating their new gender. Do the transgenders who are in the news complaining about discrimination regarding the use of bathrooms have their new birth certificates?

[Shot]

[Puccini]

Viral Video of Lesbian Kicked Out of Women’s Room for Not Showing I.D. Exposes Dangers of Bathroom Policing – WATCH

by Sean Mandell April 29, 2016 | 12:30pm

A viral video apparently showing a lesbian being kicked out of a women’s bathroom for failing to show I.D. and prove her gender has reignited conversations about the dangers of so-called ‘bathroom bills.’

In the video, police can be heard demanding to see I.D. from a woman dressed boyishly while other individuals shout, “This is a girl.”

[Jingthing]

This link provides a wonderful primer in understanding the transgender situation. I have read here many people are simply in need of some education.

This 12 CARD display will get you there. I promise!

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/11/11655888/daily-show-north-carolina-bathrooms

Myth #1: Transgender people are confused or tricking others Myth #2: Sexual orientation is linked to gender identity

Myth #3: Letting trans people use the bathroom matching their gender identity is dangerous

Myth #4: Transitioning is as simple as one surgery

(and 8 more, please refer to link for full explanations)

Edited May 11, 2016 by Jingthing

[DM07]

[attachment=379482:james wood.png

Yeah, life is so easy for people, who are as manly and butch as James Woods....and as stupid!

[up-country_sinclair]

This entire concept of "gender identity" is utter BS dreamed up by political activists to further their lamentable agenda.

That's not to say that these people don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. But what they don't get is special treatment.

Change your clothes or even have surgery. You're still what you were when came out of the womb.

And if you're uncomfortable using the bathroom you're supposed to use, you can use the single-stall handicapped toilet.

[Jingthing]

[attachment=379482:james wood.png

Yeah, life is so easy for people, who are as manly and butch as James Woods....and as stupid!

I don't like his political views, but he's a very talented actor.

[HLover]

This entire concept of "gender identity" is utter BS dreamed up by political activists to further their lamentable agenda.

That's not to say that these people don't deserve the same rights as everyone else. But what they don't get is special treatment.

Change your clothes or even have surgery. You're still what you were when came out of the womb.

And if you're uncomfortable using the bathroom you're supposed to use, you can use the single-stall handicapped toilet.

My decrepit grandfather would enjoy waiting to release his bowels in order to accommodate someone's hurt feelings.

Is sensitivity a handicap in America now?

[Jingthing]

Before the bigot laws, things weren't broke. Nothing to fix. Trangender Americans chose the most appropriate facility to use based on what was most comfortable for them and the public. The transphobic bigots have created a problem that didn't exist. Any criminal behavior that anyone of any description was involved in was ALREADY criminalized. The bigot toilet laws have now criminalized something that should never have been criminalized ... and that's the fight, and the bigots will lose.