ADHD In Children

[Speedo1968]

Though I have made comments in the Teaching Forum related to ADHD's in children, I would like to see what interest there is generally in this subject.

I am an English guy who has taught English privately here in Thailand following retirement in my own field, which also included behavioural studies and teaching.

For the past 4 years I have taken a keen interest in this subject both in a teaching setting and daily life.

Any comments / observations would be of great interest to me and also, I am sure, help others, particularly in teaching to be aware of this disorder.

[lonewolf99]

All you have to do is type in the search box - ADHD and old sperm...

here is one link

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/aging-dads-more-likely-to-have-kids-with-autism-adhd-schizophrenia-and-more/

Thailand is awash in old sperm...I personally thought that pensioners with 27+ year old Thai partners (or less) was a bad thing because... back in the UK 30 years ago my Scottish wife was considered an older mother at the age of 30....here, I also witnessed what I thought at first were "headstrong" annoying brats that were 50/50 kids before people started to tell me these kids had ADHD, is that an excuse for them being brats ?

What I do not understand is that further back in time...when i was at school. Only the odd one person in the class was overweight ? no one had ADHD, no one had peanut/food allergies, no one in my school had asthma.... We had 4 gym class and 4 swimming classes every week and one afternoon was spent playing Rugby in all weather in the winter and cricket and athletics in the summer.... how strange that people from that era are totally different..... inexplicable really .....or is it ?

[Sheryl]

I think 1) behavior now labelled ADHD back when was considered either just kids being kids or an unusually "bad" kid and 2) back then kids were less regimented, freer to run around and let off steam. No computers or video games, lots more rough and tumble physical play. I know when I was growing up, I just went outside and no one watched or worried what I was up to, called me in just for meals and bedtime. At school, during recess breaks, no adults watching or interfering in the least. Parents and teachers are much more protective/ liability conscious today, school work is more demanding and kids required to be still for much longer periods with any who can't labelled abnormal.

I think we have gone from one extreme (wherein ADHD was under diagnosed/under treated) to now the opposite extreme.

[johnatong]

You may find the content of the link helpful/interesting.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/treatment.html

You should note that most of what is discussed in the link will not be available to the majority of Thai children.

[killerbeez]

ADHD is easily cured with a slap... unfortunately it seems that drugs are now the treatment of choice.

[AlphaSoiDog]

Magnesium.

I recently did a lot of (google) research into Magnesium deficiency. It seemed I might not absorb the stuff well (in my case, depression, arrhythmia and cramps), though it turns out a high proportion of western people are deficient in the stuff (can be related to just about every common issue from diabetes, heart issues and arthritis to depression, memory issues and lethargy).

There is a lot of BS about a lack of it being the cause of ALL sickness etc. and if you use the "Ancient Salts" blah blah, some horrid sites even use the word "magical". Xxx'ing spare me.

However, there is a great deal of correlation in actual studies that show it's importance, widespread deficiency with related consequences and difficulty in absorption. One of the studies I read was using it on ADHD diagnosed children. Sorry, I don't have the link here, but from memory it was about 115 children, and 95% showed significant improvement in 1 (or 2?) months.

A starter on supplementing for those that give a rats (there is MUCH more to know)

Don't bother with "elemental magnesium" supplements (e.g. blackmores) as we can at best absorb 4% of that. Chelated is good (up to around 95% depending on which chelate from memory), but more expensive and the milligrams listed on the label includes the chelate (look for the "equivalent elemental" amount. There is also lots of stuff about "transdermal magnesium oil" which is mixing a strong brine of magnesium chloride and water and rubbing on your skin. Some studies show that there is absorption this way but no science I saw on how much actually gets through. I brush my teeth in the brine twice a day (then swallow it) which is just enough to keep the arrhythmia away (you should use food grade Mg Chloride for that though).

Epsom salts are good too (but not to swallow... there's a joke here, but just don't... , and I've heard of these being used on the crops giving a much higher Mg content in the food. If this could be procured cheaply enough it would be a good thing.

[Speedo1968]

To "lonewolf99"

Thank you for the link to the CBS report, very interesting findings.

I have noticed that ADHD in Thailand follows the male line. By this I mean that for example, in a family of 3 children, 2 boys and 1 girl, the boys will have ADHD whilst the girl does not. She may show 'similar symptoms' but I think these are a defense response to her brothers actions towards her.

One particular group with a boy of 7 / 8, 11 and a girl of 13, the 11 year old boys symptoms were on the decline.

Although still not sure I have noticed a possible link to ethnicity.

Isaan has a high number of ADHD children, people from Isaan that move to another area of Thailand, it is common to see a higher than general number of affected children, once again in the male line.

Being overweight may be a cause but could also trigger threatening behaviour if the boy is constantly ridiculed by other children and even his peers, especially at school.

Yes, children of our generation, 60+ ? had more to do, less fears and perhaps stronger ties / respect within a family.

[johnatong]

To "lonewolf99"

Thank you for the link to the CBS report, very interesting findings.

I have noticed that ADHD in Thailand follows the male line. By this I mean that for example, in a family of 3 children, 2 boys and 1 girl, the boys will have ADHD whilst the girl does not. She may show 'similar symptoms' but I think these are a defense response to her brothers actions towards her.

One particular group with a boy of 7 / 8, 11 and a girl of 13, the 11 year old boys symptoms were on the decline.

Although still not sure I have noticed a possible link to ethnicity.

Isaan has a high number of ADHD children, people from Isaan that move to another area of Thailand, it is common to see a higher than general number of affected children, once again in the male line.

Being overweight may be a cause but could also trigger threatening behaviour if the boy is constantly ridiculed by other children and even his peers, especially at school.

Yes, children of our generation, 60+ ? had more to do, less fears and perhaps stronger ties / respect within a family.

The 'problem' is multi-factorial and iodine deficiency, particularly in the NE of Thailand, is a well known cause for children underachieving.

The link provides interesting reading.

http://koratfart.com/isaan-news/thai-students-in-north-east-being-left-behind/

[Speedo1968]

Hi Sheryl

Thanks for your comments.

Yes we were different then and, we had to stand up for ourselves, but we may not have had the experience of many children today ( in some countries ) being shouted at or threatened.

Listen to the sounds of children around you today. ADHD can be heard and seen in the face once you recognize the signs.

We did our homework then when out and played. I used to have 1 - 2 hours homework every night and 3 hours on the weekend.

School lessons were one hour, real lesson time. Now, by the time a class is settled its probably 30 minutes.

Possibly teachers are much more aware of their 'liabilities' and don't want to get involved.

In the UK now the govt wants to take all schools out of govt, local govt control and have them run as academies. Why? Because results really are better because the teachers teach in a way that children understand not by govt theories of how / what to teach.

Not sure if ADHD was under-diagnosed in the past, perhaps we had a different name for each individual "disorder" ? I think the real problem today is that it is more commonly SEEN and the physical side is far more aggressive ( almost a gang - culture within an individual ). More children seem to go completely blank when acting violently and do not respond to either verbal or physical commands; this latter approach only exacerbates the problem as the child often does not realize what he / she is doing.

[johnatong]

Hi Sheryl

Thanks for your comments.

Yes we were different then and, we had to stand up for ourselves, but we may not have had the experience of many children today ( in some countries ) being shouted at or threatened.

Listen to the sounds of children around you today. ADHD can be heard and seen in the face once you recognize the signs.

We did our homework then when out and played. I used to have 1 - 2 hours homework every night and 3 hours on the weekend.

School lessons were one hour, real lesson time. Now, by the time a class is settled its probably 30 minutes.

Possibly teachers are much more aware of their 'liabilities' and don't want to get involved.

In the UK now the govt wants to take all schools out of govt, local govt control and have them run as academies. Why? Because results really are better because the teachers teach in a way that children understand not by govt theories of how / what to teach.

Not sure if ADHD was under-diagnosed in the past, perhaps we had a different name for each individual "disorder" ? I think the real problem today is that it is more commonly SEEN and the physical side is far more aggressive ( almost a gang - culture within an individual ). More children seem to go completely blank when acting violently and do not respond to either verbal or physical commands; this latter approach only exacerbates the problem as the child often does not realize what he / she is doing.

There are also those who believe the phenomena of ADHD is over-diagnosed and over medicated !

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/30/children-hyperactivity-not-real-disease-neuroscientist-adhd

[Speedo1968]

To "killerbeez"

Your posting "ADHD is easily cured with a slap... unfortunately it seems that drugs are now the treatment of choice".

Unfortunately a 'slap' doesn't work as the child is normally unaware of what they are doing. Perhaps in days gone by I am sure we knew both physically and mentally "what were doing".

Unfortunately it is often drugs / alcohol in others that put some of the violence into the child in the first place !

I agree drugs should not have to be the 'first' choice of treatment / control. Unfortunately by the time the child starts school they are already accustomed to the responses of verbal ( not just the words but the intensity of the words ) and physical abuse.

Behavioural therapy is given alongside medication to the child - IF the disorder is recognized - IF the disorder is accepted as being what it is - IF there are teachers who have the time - IF the teacher is able to defend the children under their care and of course themselves. Perhaps the behavioural therapy should be given at the childs' home ?

[johnatong]

To "killerbeez"

Your posting "ADHD is easily cured with a slap... unfortunately it seems that drugs are now the treatment of choice".

Unfortunately a 'slap' doesn't work as the child is normally unaware of what they are doing. Perhaps in days gone by I am sure we knew both physically and mentally "what were doing".

Unfortunately it is often drugs / alcohol in others that put some of the violence into the child in the first place !

I agree drugs should not have to be the 'first' choice of treatment / control. Unfortunately by the time the child starts school they are already accustomed to the responses of verbal ( not just the words but the intensity of the words ) and physical abuse.

Behavioural therapy is given alongside medication to the child - IF the disorder is recognized - IF the disorder is accepted as being what it is - IF there are teachers who have the time - IF the teacher is able to defend the children under their care and of course themselves. Perhaps the behavioural therapy should be given at the childs' home ?

Behavioral Therapy needs directing toward parents ('carers' ?) before the child. !

Many children in Thailand are raised by other than their 'parents'

[chowny77]

I feel that now there has been a huge cultural change, where both the parents are going to work as to opposed to usually the mother staying at home looking after the children. I am a 70's kid and my mum was a house wife plus she worked from home, while my dad was the one that earned the majority of the money. I was not dumped onto my grandparents to raise apart from a weeks summer holiday in the country, where I was introduced to a countryside life. I have seen that in Thailand most young families basically drop their kids of onto the grandparents and then they are pretty much left there. The grandparents then are left to raise a child when in fact they should be able to enjoy retirement and relax. Don't get me wrong it is good for a short time but not all the time. The other thing that is also turning kids into little zombie's is the technology that should really be doing the opposite. It's now all about the games, be it on Facebook, Line or other apps. One of my friends took his daughter to see a doctor because she will go wild if she did not get to play on the pad. It's sad that technology has done the opposite of what was hoped. I remember when I was bad my mum would either just make me stand in a corner or sent to my room and after everything was fixed, now a days the kids do try and get away with murder.

[thai3]

Are there any normal kids left these days without some trendy afflictions? Often bad behavior is down to too much sugar making them hyper.

[Scott]

ADHD is easily cured with a slap... unfortunately it seems that drugs are now the treatment of choice.

That is a dangerous and simplistic term. It's like saying eating broccoli cures cancer.

I have a fair amount of contact with schools and classes and I frequently get called in because students are acting up. People are quick to apply labels, but quite frequently they are not accurate. Some students are naturally less attentive than others. Some start school when they are physically and emotionally not mature. As they get older, the 'symptoms' decrease, provided they don't fall hopelessly far behind in their studies.

When observing students, look for a consistent pattern of behavior. Some students don't pay attention in math, but are reasonably attentive in English or Thai. Some students can pay attention in computer class (and they aren't allowed to play computer games), but not in another subject. Some don't pay much attention to any of the cerebral subjects, but can sit still and write, draw or color.

And some children are just more active than others.

I don't recommend that the parents seek medical attention for these problems unless they are reasonably severe and they occur over a period of time.

Children now live in a much more restrictive environment than they did years ago.

[adhd]

1) lack of sleep ... many adhd children really lack good quality sleep (many awakenings during the night)

just think how you feel after one lazy night, but than 24/7 for many weeks

2) as someone said, lack of quality magnesium (glycenate / chelated form) , sadly what you get in cheap shops overhere or even brands is only magnesium OXIDE, it give you a soft stool

3) sugar sugar sugar, we were never designed to eat so much sugar and it is realy in everything as it is cheap and good profits for the manufacturer

4) we, older people, did not grow up with all the colorful snacks with preservatives, E-numbers, colorants. A threat was once and a while, not a daily occurence

5) lack of excercise ...specially with all that sugar in the body ... homework & more homework, tablets, iphones ...

[KhonKaenKowboy]

follow the money.....the only way is can be confirmed is with a PET scan,,,but that is seldom done....a couple of bucks worth of drugs shuts the kid up....except his liver will be more toxic than a car battery by age 20. I hear AD/HD isn't even recognized in Finland. Many have stated it is just plain war on males/specifically boys. Johnny plays tag, and won't pay attention to Ms. Widbutt...

[lostinisaan]

I believe that some children's behavior that seems to be ADHD is finally homemade through the wrong food/drinks, not enough exercises and computer games.

I didn't drink Coke in the morning when I went to third grade, nor did I have ice cream and a coke or other soda pops in my lunch break.

Then add all the computer games and you create kids that seem to have/ or have the ADHD syndrome.

In my opinion, it's a toxic loop:kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems even worse.

I don't want to make a statement that computer games are causing ADHD, but they definitely make it worse. Then please look at the sugar and caffeine consumption of little kids and you'll understand that not all kids who seem to have such deficits, really have ADHD.

Please watch our grade two students right after lunch. Just a handful of rice and properly only a noodle soup when they come home can't be the right nutrition. Coke and ice cream in the morning, at lunch and maybe in the evening can't be good for kids.

The best example for me that the wrong food and drinks make people ill and do have a strong impact on their behavior at school are the students at our school.

Plenty of children sit many hours on front of a screen and play stupid video games,right after school.

. Obesity at primary schools is already at around 40 %. +

I think there's a lot of truth in " We are what we eat. (And drink..) And I don't even wanna start with genetically modified stuff now.

[muzmurray]

I believe that some children's behavior that seems to be ADHD is finally homemade through the wrong food/drinks, not enough exercises and computer games.

I didn't drink Coke in the morning when I went to third grade, nor did I have ice cream and a coke or other soda pops in my lunch break.

Then add all the computer games and you create kids that seem to have/ or have the ADHD syndrome.

In my opinion, it's a toxic loop:kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems even worse.

I don't want to make a statement that computer games are causing ADHD, but they definitely make it worse. Then please look at the sugar and caffeine consumption of little kids and you'll understand that not all kids who seem to have such deficits, really have ADHD.

Please watch our grade two students right after lunch. Just a handful of rice and properly only a noodle soup when they come home can't be the right nutrition. Coke and ice cream in the morning, at lunch and maybe in the evening can't be good for kids.

The best example for me that the wrong food and drinks make people ill and do have a strong impact on their behavior at school are the students at our school.

<deleted>

Plenty of children sit many hours on front of a screen and play stupid video games,right after school.

. Obesity at primary schools is already at around 40 %. +

I think there's a lot of truth in " We are what we eat. (And drink..) And I don't even wanna start with genetically modified stuff now.

Wow! First off, that is not your opinion, that is a selected misquote from this page;

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/features/adhd-and-video-games-is-there-a-link

The full quote is;

"He has no problem concentrating when he's playing a game," says Nate's mom, Christine, a 911 dispatcher. "I try to play with him, but I can't keep up with him. He's too good for me!" She wishes her son had the same ease with everyday activities that he has with the digital world. But then, video games are more exciting for kids with ADHD than for the average person.

It's a toxic loop: Kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action-packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems worse. That doesn't mean video games cause ADHD, as some studies have suggested. In some cases, they might even be helpful.

"There's no evidence whatsoever that something like video games causes ADHD," says David Anderson, PhD, clinical psychologist with the Child Mind Institute. "But there definitely are some important connections we need to think about when it comes to video games and ADHD."

[Rhys]

Have you looked into the differences between city kids verse country kids with the particular syndrome? It would be interesting to see if there was a correlation. Country kids less access to tech more hand on to life matters. Parents less inclined to seek out help...and just deal with it.. country teachers (bless them) just deal with it.

[Berty100]

I believe that some children's behavior that seems to be ADHD is finally homemade through the wrong food/drinks, not enough exercises and computer games.

I didn't drink Coke in the morning when I went to third grade, nor did I have ice cream and a coke or other soda pops in my lunch break.

Then add all the computer games and you create kids that seem to have/ or have the ADHD syndrome.

In my opinion, it's a toxic loop:kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems even worse.

I don't want to make a statement that computer games are causing ADHD, but they definitely make it worse. Then please look at the sugar and caffeine consumption of little kids and you'll understand that not all kids who seem to have such deficits, really have ADHD.

Please watch our grade two students right after lunch. Just a handful of rice and properly only a noodle soup when they come home can't be the right nutrition. Coke and ice cream in the morning, at lunch and maybe in the evening can't be good for kids.

The best example for me that the wrong food and drinks make people ill and do have a strong impact on their behavior at school are the students at our school.

<deleted>

Plenty of children sit many hours on front of a screen and play stupid video games,right after school.

. Obesity at primary schools is already at around 40 %. +

I think there's a lot of truth in " We are what we eat. (And drink..) And I don't even wanna start with genetically modified stuff now.

Wow! First off, that is not your opinion, that is a selected misquote from this page;

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/features/adhd-and-video-games-is-there-a-link

The full quote is;

"He has no problem concentrating when he's playing a game," says Nate's mom, Christine, a 911 dispatcher. "I try to play with him, but I can't keep up with him. He's too good for me!" She wishes her son had the same ease with everyday activities that he has with the digital world. But then, video games are more exciting for kids with ADHD than for the average person.

It's a toxic loop: Kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action-packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems worse. That doesn't mean video games cause ADHD, as some studies have suggested. In some cases, they might even be helpful.

"There's no evidence whatsoever that something like video games causes ADHD," says David Anderson, PhD, clinical psychologist with the Child Mind Institute. "But there definitely are some important connections we need to think about when it comes to video games and ADHD."

You mean just another tv member who want us to believe he's educated by nicking quotes from someone else?

[lostinisaan]

I believe that some children's behavior that seems to be ADHD is finally homemade through the wrong food/drinks, not enough exercises and computer games.

I didn't drink Coke in the morning when I went to third grade, nor did I have ice cream and a coke or other soda pops in my lunch break.

Then add all the computer games and you create kids that seem to have/ or have the ADHD syndrome.

In my opinion, it's a toxic loop:kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems even worse.

I don't want to make a statement that computer games are causing ADHD, but they definitely make it worse. Then please look at the sugar and caffeine consumption of little kids and you'll understand that not all kids who seem to have such deficits, really have ADHD.

Please watch our grade two students right after lunch. Just a handful of rice and properly only a noodle soup when they come home can't be the right nutrition. Coke and ice cream in the morning, at lunch and maybe in the evening can't be good for kids.

The best example for me that the wrong food and drinks make people ill and do have a strong impact on their behavior at school are the students at our school.

<deleted>

Plenty of children sit many hours on front of a screen and play stupid video games,right after school.

. Obesity at primary schools is already at around 40 %. +

I think there's a lot of truth in " We are what we eat. (And drink..) And I don't even wanna start with genetically modified stuff now.

Wow! First off, that is not your opinion, that is a selected misquote from this page;

http://www.webmd.com/add-adhd/childhood-adhd/features/adhd-and-video-games-is-there-a-link

The full quote is;

"He has no problem concentrating when he's playing a game," says Nate's mom, Christine, a 911 dispatcher. "I try to play with him, but I can't keep up with him. He's too good for me!" She wishes her son had the same ease with everyday activities that he has with the digital world. But then, video games are more exciting for kids with ADHD than for the average person.

It's a toxic loop: Kids with attention problems already are prone to being sucked into the action-packed world of video games, and that makes their attention problems worse. That doesn't mean video games cause ADHD, as some studies have suggested. In some cases, they might even be helpful.

"There's no evidence whatsoever that something like video games causes ADHD," says David Anderson, PhD, clinical psychologist with the Child Mind Institute. "But there definitely are some important connections we need to think about when it comes to video games and ADHD."

You mean just another tv member who want us to believe he's educated by nicking quotes from someone else?

I've checked how connected video games and ADHD really is on several websites and I don't think that using two sentences of one of them is changing my post in a negative way.

How's that "nicking quotes"?

[Scott]

I get a lot of complaints and requests that we do 'something' about students whom the teacher believes has ADHD. The vast majority of them do not have ADHD and even the more severe ones who get sent for an evaluation often do not come back with a diagnosis of ADHD.

There are a whole host of symptoms occurring over a significant period of time that need to be present before a diagnosis can be made.

Some years ago, we had a student who had ADHD and was put on medication that worked relatively well until he reached adolescence when it was less effective. He would periodically quit using the medication because he didn't like it. When off his medication, he sometimes had to be physically restrained to calm him down. He was not combative, but would just go crazy and very difficult to control. He lost all impulse control, would start walking around the classroom, leave the class and be running around in the corridors.

Over time he did learn to monitor his behavior and that even though he didn't like taking medication, it was necessary. His behavior was roughly the same at home, but his parents had learned to deal with/accept it more at home.

I should also add that he was a nice person and didn't show any signs of other disorders or problems.

There are a lot of things that contribute to learning problems in the classroom. Some have to do with the subject, some with the teacher and some with the student. Medication is best avoided if possible.

[DavisH]

I personally don't think ADHD is all that common - I've probably only taught a dozen kids out of hundreds over the 15 years I've been in Thailand. Some were on medication and some obviously were not. One child I remember would always be under his desk when I walked in the room.

I see more of a problem with intrinsic motivation of children to learn, rather than any significant behavioural issues. Many of these issues are understandable when one looks at the child's home life and upbringing.

[Scott]

ADHD is probably over diagnosed or at least it is overly medicated in children who may have only a mild condition. It takes a lot in Thailand to get a child evaluated because it requires someone talking to the parents and telling them the child is not 'normal' and that is a big thing.