Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[mania]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

is that 15,000 baht per month you pay?

I think he means yearly & it is one of BUPA's plans like Sapphire,Ruby,Emerald or Diamond

But as Sheryl said these plans if you read them are really not worth anything. The coverage is so limited that you will surely be paying

the bulk anyway.

As she also has said really what is needed is at least their Platinum 2 plans that start closer to 60k baht a year

I have been here 4 years no insurance.

Never a problem sick 2x & easily affordable

But recently I had my 1st little scare when told I had kidney stones...Ok this is really a minor deal so should

not be scary but I went to a private hospital to check something unrelated...They wanted a ultrasound ok did it

was 3x more than stated @5k but that is because they do not initially tell you about the "other things" but still cheap.

...Then they needed a CT KUB Scan with contrast as ultrasound showed 3 stones 1 of which was in

a bad spot with some narrowing of ureter

Ok 12k baht more for that

But what scared me was while lying on the CT scanner a lady came up with a paper asking me to sign & it was for an additional 24k baht

I asked why & she said well doctor wants to check a few other things.

I declined they made no fuss & quickly said ok.

So now I have my scans & am probably having surgery as shokewave/lithotripsy removal is likely out of question due to size of stones + narrowing of ureter.

Prices at other hospitals not too bad so far maybe 100-150k etc

But trying to get a price at original hospital (cannot name & shame but biggest priv hospital) was like pulling teeth.

They said they needed to get a group together & discuss with me various plans/prices etc....aka: pricey Im sure

So again this is a small event & yes I can & will afford it but.........It made me realize something especially something about Thailand

Maybe not all shops are like this but I really felt like that 24k sign the paper was kicking me when I was down trying to extract more $$$

You know at the moment of going into a CT scan with contrast dye going thru your veins is no time to have to make decisions.

If this is how it is done I think......

1- Having insurance would alleviate some/most of that stress

2- Am considering just moving back home as I saw this (24k attempt) as a really poor example of humanity here & what I have to look forward to in an real emergency here

where looking for more profit shows no mercy.

3- Thailand roads 2nd deadliest in world

We came here to be closer to my aging inlaws but also kept our house back home.

I love it here & after 4 years had no reason to consider leaving but now I admit to having 2nd thoughts due to this

& a few other changes in recent years

Sorry to be long winded but to the OP I would say self insure is fine sure....but it might make your head spin a little at

how fast things can move even in relatively simple events. I cannot imagine a major event.

Many think no prob I can fly home but this is only possible if your able to after an event or sickness. In this case for mine yes I could fly home

where I am already covered but even that is at least equal in cost to doing "this" operation.

Good Luck

Edited April 7, 2016 by mania

[SantiSuk]

What annoys me about nearly all types of insurance is that you cannot buy products which have very high deductibles, so that you self - insure against the lower cost events and restrict your cover for the very highest cost events. Standard packages almost ensure that you are partly paying for all the rip offs of the unscrupulous general public.

I too do not like insurance as a principle and have never paid for household contents or travel insurance as I can afford the maximum loss (even an expensive repatriation). I only take 3rd class car insurance and am considering dropping that to Government only. But for medical I pay top wack - over 150k baht per annum continuing with the collective policy that my former business had. For 20 years I paid that with only an occasional year where the insurers were even close to being out of the money on any one particular year's premium. But in recent years I developed a chronic lung condition. It's a comfort to know that they picked up bills of 750 baht and 1.5 m baht in each of the last two years and will likely pay the 1.5 m baht pa in topping up my cr@p immune system needs (not HIV but similar in treatment).

For those with no resources and a home country that provides free/subsidised health care it's certainly worth considering how much ducking and diving you need to do to maintain qualifying characteristics!

[chiang mai]

If you can afford it you should buy it,

If because of your age you think the premiums are too high AND you have cash reserves, 3 to 5 million set aside to cover these things will easily work.

But, if you can't afford the premiums AND you don't have cash reserves, there's a problem looming.

I'm with poster LivinLOS on this point, I've always believed health insurance is a mugs game and I've not had it for years hence I'm well ahead - I have 5 mill. ring fenced for this purpose.

The problem is in the lottery we call life, you can never know when you will be the lucky number chosen. So for every 10 guys that are ahead, there will be 1 that will get snuffed. And that will increase as you age, the reality is (and I know because I spent years caring for elderly and know the game) that no matter how healthy you are, eventually your health will fail...it's called our human life cycle. We are born, we grow, we live, we experience senescence, and we die. To plan on dying if you have a heart attack or stroke is very bad planning because 1) you will not be in control and 2) typically people are kept alive in a sickly state for a decade or more after the incident.

congrats on your win but for many of us the risk is just not worth it.

And the real kicker is if you die tomorrow...the 5 mil ain't doing you any good.

"if you die tomorrow...the 5 mil ain't doing you any good".

It gets passed on to my heirs, that's a win I reckon.

[tracker]

I pay 8000thb per year for accident. Health is my own responsibility. So i take care of it. I do not trust pharma which are there for profit, not for healing.

Accidents can happen and are unpredictable, although jumping on a motorcycle taxi in bangkok or any busy city increases the odds.

Cancer and most heart related issues can be prevented and healed if one is willing to accept drastic changes. My idea is to not insure or at very low level you keep yourself at a more responsible attitude towards your own health...

[NancyL]

If you shop around you can find insurance policies that do offer high deductibles. Hubby and I have policies with USD 1000 deductibles PER EVENT. We also have personal accident insurance policies with no deductible. PA policies are cheap, have no exclusions for pre-existing conditions and high upper age limits, but they have fairly low ceilings on max payout. We figure that we can use the PA policy to pay the deductible for a serious accident and then the comprehensive health insurance policy will kick in.

Anyone living here, no matter their age or health condition can get a personal accident policy and is foolish not to do so. The personal accident rate is about twenty times what it is in the west, and I"m not just talking about vehicular accidents. Think about all the hazards in just walking around on the footpaths and in the homes, the way they're built with stupid little steps in unexpected places and slippery surfaces.

[NancyL]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

[ignis]

Don't have any.

Many year ago did have, was taken ill, so say all taken care of by insurance [phone calls by Dr + Hospital to insurance Company]........ lived in the Algarve Portugal, the insurance Company said there was only one Hospital they use in Lisbon, private ambulance all the way up there, 1 week in the Hospital, and the end the Insurance refused to pay more than 40%....... I could have had the opp in Faro a large modern hospital back then costing far less then the 60% I had to pay. + is in the Algarve

Shop around here and you find good Private Hospitals and very good prices been a few times.[even been twice to a government Hospital]...... did have one opp that was expensive, and had to go on Visa's for 2 years until the 800,000 balance was back up for the Retirement Extensions again.

At the end of the day = Price + Age + opps & other medical problems that are not covered + bad experience = No thanks will muddle along and hope for the best

[StefanBBK]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

Could be easily more, even in government hospitals.

Try transplants or severe cancer...

[SpokaneAl]

I pay 8000thb per year for accident. Health is my own responsibility. So i take care of it. I do not trust pharma which are there for profit, not for healing.

Accidents can happen and are unpredictable, although jumping on a motorcycle taxi in bangkok or any busy city increases the odds.

Cancer and most heart related issues can be prevented and healed if one is willing to accept drastic changes. My idea is to not insure or at very low level you keep yourself at a more responsible attitude towards your own health...

Cancer can be healed? Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the luck of the dice. Either way it is often a long, painful expensive process. Edited April 7, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[Naam]

I pay 8000thb per year for accident. Health is my own responsibility. So i take care of it. I do not trust pharma which are there for profit, not for healing.

Accidents can happen and are unpredictable, although jumping on a motorcycle taxi in bangkok or any busy city increases the odds.

Cancer and most heart related issues can be prevented and healed if one is willing to accept drastic changes. My idea is to not insure or at very low level you keep yourself at a more responsible attitude towards your own health...

Cancer can be healed? Maybe yes, maybe no, depending on the luck of the dice. Either way it is often a long, painful expensive process.

typical for these kind of threads is that they always bring out some clowns and their various wet dreams advice

[muskoka]

I am a 68yo Canadian expat on my 8th year in CM. Spent the 1st +year researching health insurance policies and every time I came up with a possibility the fine print ruled out so many things I knew it would be a fight to get them to pay out if I needed to use it. The cheapest monthly cost of what I considered a good policy was in the range of $C400/month which is approx 11,000B at today exchange rate. I decided to "self insure" and keep a decent level of cash on hand. I would never consider chemo or radiation if I get cancer so that rules out one big potential expense.

In my +7 years here I never used local medical services for anything that insurance would have paid for, so, lucky so far. @ B11,000/month x 84 months = almost 1 million Baht I would have spent on insurance and not used. I also try and live a reasonably healthy lifestyle, but not extreme, everything in balance.

Accident Insurance

I decided to just get an accident insurance policy. I was looking for something in the range of 500,000 to 1m Baht. All I came with was a small policy for 50,000B per incident, in-patient costs only covered. They said they would try and increase it to 100,000B on renewal, no higher, but it never happened.

I had one accident on my bike (side-swiped from someone coming out from a small soi, hit and run). I woke up in the hospital 1 1/2 hrs later with an extremely painful hip (and poor mental function for a couple days). Had a decent helmet or I would not be here today. Nothing broken but I was on crutches for several weeks - the hip joint was extremely twisted. This small policy plus the government insurance on my bike covered my 3 days in hospital and all meds during that time (pain killers and anti inflamatories).

To each their own, this is just my story. I have nothing against insurance but back in Canada I normally used naturopathic doctors and paid out of pocket, same as I do here at a tiny fraction of the price.

Doug

[SpokaneAl]

Insurance is about managing risk. If we wish to hand off all or a part of the risk, then for a price, the insurance company will take on the risk.

If we wish to maintain that risk ourselves, then we simply calculate worst case options and create a plan to handle those options, or not.

Either way, as long as one person's decisions do not affect the rest of us, more power to you, which ever way you choose to go.

If you choose the self funded plan, while I will be hoping for the best for you, just don't look to me for help if your plan goes belly up.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SpokaneAl

[BB1955]

I have bupa too for the last 3 years , never used it but its a good feeling to know you have some coverage . I pay 30, 000 a year at 60 .

[amexpat]

Insurance is about managing risk. If we wish to hand off all or a part of the risk, then for a price, the insurance company will take on the risk.

I'm taking notes.

If we wish to maintain that risk ourselves, then we simply calculate worst case options and create a plan to handle those options, or not.

More notes.

Either way, as long as one person's decisions do not affect the rest of us, more power to you, which ever way you choose to go.

Thank you so much.

If you choose the self funded plan, while I will be hoping for the best for you, just don't look to me for help if your plan goes belly up.

DANG! I was so counting on you!

[BritManToo]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

I am glad that you are happy with the outcome of your accident insurance, and the ensuing paid treatments.

But, after reading your many posts, it's not a life that I would want to live.

I would prefer to have not had your insurance, and not had any of the operations.

You may consider your continuing life to be worthwhile, but it's not for me.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

Accident Insurance

I decided to just get an accident insurance policy. I was looking for something in the range of 500,000 to 1m Baht. All I came with was a small policy for 50,000B per incident, in-patient costs only covered. They said they would try and increase it to 100,000B on renewal, no higher, but it never happened.

Bangkok Insurance Company (in most Malls), 6kbht for 100k accident insurance.

[jingjoke]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

15000Baht? Very inexpensive. What BUPA Plan is that!

I once had BUPA coverage but had to cancel after several years as the price kept escalating, even though not having used it.

Even 3 years ago BUPA coverage was well more than 15K:

[ What is the price for the BUPA Thailand package? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/651172-bupa-platinum-plan-skip-outpatient/

BUPA International classic (female, 35 yrs) is about £1400 / 66,000 baht

BUPA International classic (male, 38 yrs) is about £1750 / 83,000 baht

Both plans cover MRI etc but not regular out patient visits...

Skipping the out patient premium is a reasonable and perhaps cost effective idea...]

[LivinLOS]

If you choose the self funded plan, while I will be hoping for the best for you, just don't look to me for help if your plan goes belly up.

Agreed.. I always think it remarkably selfish and one sided when an expat has some terrible accident and the whip round kitty comes out..

Where was the equivalent payback each year they saved ??

[LivinLOS]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

15000Baht? Very inexpensive. What BUPA Plan is that!

I once had BUPA coverage but had to cancel after several years as the price kept escalating, even though not having used it.

Even 3 years ago BUPA coverage was well more than 15K:

[ What is the price for the BUPA Thailand package? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/651172-bupa-platinum-plan-skip-outpatient/

BUPA International classic (female, 35 yrs) is about £1400 / 66,000 baht

BUPA International classic (male, 38 yrs) is about £1750 / 83,000 baht

Both plans cover MRI etc but not regular out patient visits...

Skipping the out patient premium is a reasonable and perhaps cost effective idea...]

Those are both international packages.. The 15k is the 30 - 40 year old baseline domestic package. Possible 'emerald plan'.

Covers about 500k or maybe a mil of any single issue or accident.. No outpatient or dental.

[sirineou]

Anybody living in Thailand without health insurance is crazy.

Take my case, serious accident 7 months in hospital.

6 major operations, 4 weeks ICU.

Now 2. 5 years later still having to visit hospital every 3 weeks (catheter change )

Still having to take pain killers, have a paid carer.

If i had to pay for all that it would have bankrupted me months ago.

I am glad that you are happy with the outcome of your accident insurance, and the ensuing paid treatments.

But, after reading your many posts, it's not a life that I would want to live.

I would prefer to have not had your insurance, and not had any of the operations.

You may consider your continuing life to be worthwhile, but it's not for me.

easy to say until you are in that situation IMO what a terible reply!!

Colinneil , sorry to hear about your situation, Hung in there man, you are a fighter.

Life is worth fighting for, for you and for your family

Edited April 7, 2016 by sirineou

[BritManToo]

Don't have any.

Many year ago did have, was taken ill, so say all taken care of by insurance [phone calls by Dr + Hospital to insurance Company]........ lived in the Algarve Portugal,

Are you not an EU citizen?

I thought EHIC pays all?

[sirineou]

life is a precocious gift and one need to protect it as best as one can

that includes insurance and planing

I could easily sell my property in the US, take early retirement and fully retire in Thailand,

But in my Opinion it would be premature and it would mean burning Bridges.

With my preexisting condition there are certain things I would never be covered in Thailand,

A major preexisting condition we all share, is aging. If we are lucky , we all will get older.

So , Three more years, pay off the mortgage, rent the property, the rent will provide additional income , but more importantly, a way back to where my insurance and support system is , if necessary.

Plus this additional three years of working is increasing the monthly pension I will get when I retire by a significant amount.

Make Love not war, but be prepared for both.

Edited April 7, 2016 by sirineou

[BritManToo]

What if you die before 3 years is up, bit of a waste, and I've seen many go that way.

Planning for a future that never happens.

Me, I gave up work when I had enough to last my last 'fun worthy' years.

For me,

11-16 bullied at school for being a swot, not that much fun.

16-23 years of hard study, a bit of fun, but not much, loads of booze, not much sex.

23-45 hard work, hardly any fun, bit of booze, not much sex.

50 to 60 was a blast, freedom from work and loads of fun, loads of booze and sex.

Can't see having much fun at 60+, where I am now, booze and sex available, but I just don't feel like it much.

Can't see having any fun at 70+, what's the point? Looking forward to incontinence, walking stick or Zimmer frame.

Edited April 7, 2016 by BritManToo

[mania]

Can't see having much fun at 60+, where I am now, booze and sex available, but I just don't feel like it much.

Can't see having any fun at 70+, what's the point?

Hahah good morning sunshine

I was always self employed thru my own company but self retired @ 54 because not much to do once we moved here

except relax...exercise etc. Enjoy life & yes its nice

But now I am approaching 60 & after a good 4-5 years of taking it easy I am now

considering moving countries & starting a new business I have wanted to try for awhile now

Work it will be yes... but activity & a passion for something is how I see it.

Having a passion for something is good makes my eyes spring open in the morning

What is nice in these years is not needing to work makes work something to look forward to

even more than before.....New things to learn..... new ideas to try...I miss it

Edited April 7, 2016 by mania

[sirineou]

What if you die before 3 years is up, bit of a waste, and I've seen many go that way.

Planning for a future that never happens.

Me, I gave up work when I had enough to last my last 'fun worthy' years.

For me,

11-16 bullied at school for being a swot, not that much fun.

16-23 years of hard study, a bit of fun, but not much, loads of booze, not much sex.

23-45 hard work, hardly any fun, bit of booze, not much sex.

50 to 60 was a blast, freedom from work and loads of fun, loads of booze and sex.

Can't see having much fun at 60+, where I am now, booze and sex available, but I just don't feel like it much.

Can't see having any fun at 70+, what's the point? Looking forward to incontinence, walking stick or Zimmer frame.

Sorry to hear you did not have a lot of fun in earlier life. I am not being glib, I mean it.

I guess it makes a difference what one considers fun.

If I die, no problem, things get very easy when you are dead, But living with out the proper resources can be a bitch.

I had a lot of fun in my life, work being part of the fun, will retire at 62, and plan to have a fun and productive next 30 years

The best insurance For us in Thailand is a good plan B

[balo]

I pay around 15000 baht for a BUPA insurance. It cover most things, like accidents , several types of diseases , but not cancer .

If I would get unlucky some day and get a really serious illness that insurance does not cover I can still get back to my home country for free health care (Norway).

Did you count the several million baht cost of medical evacuation to Norway...you do know that they won't let you fly with your IV and Hospital machinery in tourist class right ?

I am talking about a serious illness like cancer , I would still be able to fly home , on economy class if you like. If something worse than that happens, well I guess treatment in Thailand is cheaper. As I already mentioned, BUPA do cover accidents and other sudden illnesses like heart attack or should I fall into a coma .

Edited April 7, 2016 by balo

[how241]

Sheryl, on 06 Apr 2016 - 22:05, said:

HullyGully, on 06 Apr 2016 - 21:57, said:

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

Yes, about right or a bit more if in a higher end (price wise) hospital. But that's for just one op. Imagine needing several operations for the same event as does happen. And prolonged ICU stay.

1-2 million per event at a government hospital. 5 mill if private. We have a member ion this board who recently racked up >3 million in a single hospitalization (without major complications, but 2 big specialized surgeries) in a private hospital, and I have seen far, far worse especially after major accidents with multiple trauma. Luckily he was well insured.

How many times in the past year have we had threads running about appeals for money to pay an uninsured farang's hospital bill? Several, at least.

Could you please give some recommendations for both health insurance and accident insurance. I am 62, no health problems and drive a motorbike daily. I have no insurance of any kind now. Without spending a fortune, could you recommend some middle priced options. Thanks

[mankondang]

I do not have health insurance, but wish I had. The insurance companies do not cover you for preexisting conditions, which after suffering a minor heart attack seven years ago, and a minor operation for bowel diverticulitis, leaves me without cover for these two important aspects of my health. Sure most insurance companies, being what they are, would accept my application and regular payments, but when I suffer and make a claim they would reject it due to the premonitioned clause. Money down the drain.

I have covered myself two ways. My country of origin and citizenship provides me with free health care, and my savings is in excess of 3M. Bhat. Which leaves me with the risk of being able to travel home if something serious happened.

These are the facts, as I understand, of health insurance companies here, if someone can advice me differently I'll welcome that.

Edited April 7, 2016 by mankondang

[remobb]

From personal and very recent experience. I have just recovered from a heart attack. I was in hospital for a week and it cost around 600,000baht. I had insurance but not enough. I thank my school for paying my bill or I would be still there begging for money or I guess I would have gone upstairs.

So for me, I say, get insurance.

Although I have been here for 17 years and not had any other real problems. Before that I have been very healthy. Be prepared!

[mankondang]

From personal and very recent experience. I have just recovered from a heart attack. I was in hospital for a week and it cost around 600,000baht. I had insurance but not enough. I thank my school for paying my bill or I would be still there begging for money or I guess I would have gone upstairs.

So for me, I say, get insurance.

Although I have been here for 17 years and not had any other real problems. Before that I have been very healthy. Be prepared!

Your recent heart attack is NOW a preexisting condition. Check to see if insurance companies cover preexisting conditions. If not, and you have heart problems in the future, your insurance company may not pay out.