Real estate agent (and previous owner) omit to tell one little detail, liable for damages ?

[WorkingTourist]

Do Thai visa cards support authorization hold?

I ask because I was told by one hotel that they could not use my Thai visa card for deposit because it does not support authorization hold, so they would effectively charge me the amount and would then later need to do a refund.

This matches a previous experience where a hotel kept the deposit after I had checked out, and only after a few complaints did they write the bank to issue a refund (I was cc’ed on this message). So it seemed very much like they wanted to have done an authorization hold but instead charged me.

And now I am dealing with an Apple support representative after they charged my card 3 times for the same service. They claim that two of the charges are just authorization holds, but it has been more than a month and the funds are still withdrawn/locked.

So if anyone knows for sure whether authorization holds are supported or not by Thai visa cards I would be grateful for some authoritative information, preferably something I can send to this service representative.

If they are supported, anyone know how long it can take before the funds are no longer locked?

[Koosdedooes]

By authorization assume you mean a blocked amount on a card when booking and securing a hotel room say and they block "X" amount as a deposit ?

I use an SCB Visa credit card and yes they can do this...sure you have a credit card and not a debit card ?

authorizations are not "refunds", an amount is "blocked" / "reserved" for that transaction on your card, in other words the card limit lowered, but the amount is not debited to the vendor at time booking

In all my years here using a Thai CC (Visa) never had any of the issues you describe

[jphasia]

I am using Bangkok Bank Visa Platinum Credit Card and no problem at all. I just used it last week in a hotel during check in. First I give them my Thai Debit Card but they refused as they said they only need a pre-authorization which worked with Credit Card.

[WorkingTourist]

Its a Krungthai visa debit card.

But my foreign (visa) cards are also only debit cards and according to wikipedia debit cards also use authorization hold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold

jphasia: Is your debit card also a visa card? If so, sounds like there is definitely something to it.

As for Thai visa credit cards, is there a visual difference between those and Thai visa debit cards?

[fletchsmile]

When I check into a decent hotel they usually block an amount on my Thai credit card as a deposit and give me a visa slip receipt. I always ask if this will actually go thru on my statement/ account. The answer is usually no. I get an sms to my phone saying the CC has been used. But if I check on internet banking in the next few days it usually doesn't go thru, and isn't charged to my account, and is just blocked. So yes it's possible.

If they're actually charging the card, it's possible it's just a smaller hotels operating procedures or they aren't able to do it for some reason, including don't know what to do.

Edited May 24, 2016 by fletchsmile

[Koosdedooes]

Its a Krungthai visa debit card.

And there is your problem...As suggested your using a debit card, when a there is a transaction on the card...the money is "removed" from the account and that's why you have to get a refund...

Credit Card authorization doesn't work in the same way...the amount is "blocked" on the card but not credited to the vendor, the other poster as he stated is using a BB Visa credit card not a debit card, big difference

[jphasia]

Its a Krungthai visa debit card.

But my foreign (visa) cards are also only debit cards and according to wikipedia debit cards also use authorization hold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_hold

jphasia: Is your debit card also a visa card? If so, sounds like there is definitely something to it.

As for Thai visa credit cards, is there a visual difference between those and Thai visa debit cards?

My Debit Card is a Bangkok Bank Be 1st Visa. I can use it to withdraw cash from ATM in Thailand and abroad, pay in most shops in Thailand with it (I never tried abroad) and use it online.

I would say that the main visual difference between my debit card and my Bangkok Bank Visa Platinum Credit Card is that the credit card has my name printed on it while the debit doesn't have my name on it.

[WorkingTourist]

If they're actually charging the card, it's possible it's just a smaller hotels operating procedures or they aren't able to do it for some reason, including don't know what to do.

It was a small hotel that charged my card, though they gave me the visa slip and clearly operated under the assumption that it was just a hold.

It was at a Hilton hotel that the check-in staff asked if I had a foreign visa card (when I gave them my Thai visa debit card) and when I asked why, they told me that for Thai cards, they would need to charge me the deposit because these did not support authorization holds.

[WorkingTourist]

And there is your problem...As suggested your using a debit card, when a there is a transaction on the card...the money is "removed" from the account and that's why you have to get a refund...

Credit Card authorization doesn't work in the same way...the amount is "blocked" on the card but not credited to the vendor, the other poster as he stated is using a BB Visa credit card not a debit card, big difference

From my wikipedia link:

“A debit card works slightly differently. Like in the previous example, if one has a balance of $100 in the bank and used a debit card to make a purchase at a retail store for $30, the available balance will immediately decrease to $70, as a hold on the $30 is enacted because the merchant has obtained an authorization from the bank by swiping the card through the credit card terminal. However, the actual balance with the bank is still $100, because the merchant has not actually collected the funds in question.”

As said, my foreign (visa) cards are also debit cards. The issue seems to be specific to Thai debit cards (possibly not Thai credit cards based on the comments here).

And I seek some authoritative source that has this limitation in writing so that I can send it to the customer representative, which claims that my 2 extra charges are just authorization holds that my bank will clear.

[Koosdedooes]

And there is your problem...As suggested your using a debit card, when a there is a transaction on the card...the money is "removed" from the account and that's why you have to get a refund...

Credit Card authorization doesn't work in the same way...the amount is "blocked" on the card but not credited to the vendor, the other poster as he stated is using a BB Visa credit card not a debit card, big difference

From my wikipedia link:

“A debit card works slightly differently. Like in the previous example, if one has a balance of $100 in the bank and used a debit card to make a purchase at a retail store for $30, the available balance will immediately decrease to $70, as a hold on the $30 is enacted because the merchant has obtained an authorization from the bank by swiping the card through the credit card terminal. However, the actual balance with the bank is still $100, because the merchant has not actually collected the funds in question.”

As said, my foreign (visa) cards are also debit cards. The issue seems to be specific to Thai debit cards (possibly not Thai credit cards based on the comments here).

And I seek some authoritative source that has this limitation in writing so that I can send it to the customer representative, which claims that my 2 extra charges are just authorization holds that my bank will clear.

Wikipedia is not an authoritative source and the only authoritative source with respect to a Thai debit card in this case will be Krungthai as they issued the card, so that's who you need to talk to

Thai credit cards I can state categorically have no issue, having used an SCB CC internationally for 15 years all over the globe and have had many authorization transactions for hire cars, hotels etc in numerous countries without issue.

[theoldgit]

Not an issue but on a recent visit to the UK an International car hire company actually charged my Thai CC for the deposit and then refunded it back to my card when the car was returned, I did lose out slightly because of the exchange rate spread.

[fletchsmile]

Not an issue but on a recent visit to the UK an International car hire company actually charged my Thai CC for the deposit and then refunded it back to my card when the car was returned, I did lose out slightly because of the exchange rate spread.

Actually that is an issue and part of what OP is talking about. He doesn't want to be charged and then refunded.

That's the opposite of what he's looking for. He wants to "block" an amount on the card or have an "authorisation hold" and not be charged/ go thru some refund process, particularly as he's experience of the refund processes messing up.

Blocking or an authorsiation hold:

-For a debit card the funds are "blocked" or "held" and deducted from the available bank account balance.

-For a credit card the funds are "blocked" or "held" and deducted from the card credit limit.

In both cases the funds are not transferred to the merchant/ vendor yet at this point.

I can confirm that my Thai credit card is able to do this in Thailand and I've done at hotels. So what OP is looking for is possible with a Thai credit card in Thailand.

To Working Tourist,

After the amount is "blocked" or "authorisation held", for the merchant to actually charge you, they need to submit the transaction to the card company in some form. I suspect this is the point at which the process is causing the issue rather than the card itself.

If the vendor submits the transaction at the end of the day then you'll get charged. However, they may not submit it at end of day. It may therefore depend on the vendor processes, which may vary in sophistication, and it's possible they have different processes for different types of card.

If you think about a true "sale" and just "blocking" a card, then If they submit everything in batches for all transactions regardless of the nature of the transaction then you'll get charged. If however, they have a process to isolate the transactions that are just "blocked" or "held" from what are true "sales", and keep these held items back then you won't get charged.

Can't say I'm familiar with all the process that vendors could do to submit their claims these days. I'd have thought these days most use some form of electronic batch transfer, i.e in batches of transfers not just one transaction at a time. I'm guessing here, but based on how other IT systems process transaction data in batches generally, certain process/ systems will allow certain transactions to be exclude or not to be released in the batch via some form of intervention, i.e send the batch but don't include transaction X,Y,Z. This could well be the case here.

What I can say though, is I've used my Thai credit card in Thailand to do what you're looking for, so it's definitely possible with at least some Thai credit cards at some vendors.

Edited May 25, 2016 by fletchsmile

[theoldgit]

One issue I did have a few years ago when we were touring the UK and mainland Europe was the length of time it took a number of merchants to release the block they had put on available credit on my card.

We stayed at multiple hotels and rented a couple of cars and, despite the fact most of the hotels had been prepaid, they all put a block on an amount of funds, I didn't think too much of this.

When we arrived in Paris I wanted to purchase some Metro tickets and my card was declined.

I was a bit concerned about this a called my card issuer in Thailand, they confirmed that it was as a result of blocked funds, the lady confirmed that whilst funds are blocked instantly some merchants are often slow in unblocking, especially car hire companies.

She wasn't able to unblock the funds but she did put a temporary increase on my credit limit for the duration of the trip.

It was certainly a lesson learned.