32 foreign tourists in a speedboat accident in Samui

[chrisinth]

Even in a slight swell 1-2m it is very easy to flip a shallow V speedboat when running across the swell. Had a scary experience on a trip to Koh Maak and literally had to force the driver to change his line as he was running across the swell (as the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line, even if you don't make it there in the end!)

Actually, running across the sea, in conditions that lead to concern, is probably the most comfortable path the cox'n could take. Going into the sea (in a 1-2 meter swell) at speed will be bouncy while going down-sea (surfing) could end up dipping the nose or being swamped at the stern.

Forcing the cox'n of the vessel to drive his boat the way you would like, really isn't the done thing. Anywhere.

wouldn't disagree with that,

should keep in mind that the vast majority of entries in this thread is written by folks that know buggar all about driving power boats in swells

and know buggar all about the longitudinal and the athwartships stability of a laden power boat

At full tit (around 40kmh) that these boats can do, with a full load of tourists and baggage, you would be insane to run broadside on to a swell of even 2m. One swell at the wrong frequency would tip you over.

If you have ever been in charge of a boat then you would know the reality. Much better off to either slow to a reasonable speed (15-20kmh depending on the frequency of the swells), or take the swell on the quarter and then double back. Yes, plenty of pounding, and you would end up taking the long (read safe) way round, but you would get there in the end.

It's nothing to do with comfort. It's about stability, safety and delivery. Sad to hear there are so many who don't understand how the boat/ocean interface works on here (not to mention the dynamics of having 8 X excitable 90kg tourists on board), but then again with the number of fatalities from literally stupid mistakes we see, not surprising.

I'm sorry, but it seems that we agree to disagree on this issue. If a vessel is travelling across the sea at 40kph (21.5 knots/25mph) and is handling the sea state, the last thing you would want to do is to slow down to a speed of 15-20 kph (8-10 knots/9-12mph) as this certainly would make the vessel, with a beam sea, much more unstable. The cox'n has the throttles to negotiate any changes in wave patterns if necessary.

You suggest the cox'n should put the sea on his quarter and double back, which would mean broaching the sea and then into it before broaching again to put it on the quarter again. I don't see the point of that as you stated in your original post that the reason the cox'n was going across the sea in the first place was because it was the most direct route to his destination.

I have hundreds (probably into 4 figure numbers) hours experience cox'ning small craft, everything from a gemini with a 40HP mariner on the transom to a fast pursuit craft with twin 300HP racing engines on the back reaching an operational speed of 120kph (65 knots/75mph) over a 20+ year period. And never once, in sea state from 0 to 9, during hundreds of transfers/boardings/chases have i ever had a person in the water.

Just to put things in perspective with regards to sea states, i have attached a copy of the Beaufort Wind Scale. While it is understood that the wave heights are worked out from uninterrupted sea swell, and the obvious difference in conditions between deep and shallow water effects, it may make you consider wave height vs wind speed.

[chrisinth]

Due to my job as a travel journalist I had many a "chance" to enjoy the services of Thai boat operators.

Those of you who ever traveled to Koh Lipeh by speedboat must know what a blood-freezing experience that is. 19 years old drivers checking their phones while pushing the 1000 HP engines to the max on a Beaufort 5-6 rough sea. I never feel comfortable when drivers are younger than the boats they man.

Last time I came back from Lipeh I took the big, slower ferry and the trip was rough but dry. 15 minutes after we finally made it to the Pakbara pier, a speedboat ferry pulled ashore. All passangers were soaked in seawater and had that stare in their eyes ("we've been in Hell and back"). Why a trip to and from an idyllic tropical island must be so rough, tough and dangerous...escapes my logic.

On another trip to Koh Lipeh, on a 40-seater speedboat, I had to personally shout at the driver to slow down before we all break our necks. He looked surprised and powered down from 25 knots to 20, but just for a few minutes. The boat was dangerously rocking and bumping while the waves (about 1.5 meters high) were hitting it from the starboard. Water splashed all over us. Sitting was almost impossible, as the boat movement made everyone imponderable for a fraction of a second. This lasted for 90 minutes.

Now, movig back to the Samui accident, I had the opportinity to speak with some of the survivors. The sea was quite tough mid-week due to the very strong westerly winds that blew over the Gulf since Monday. The tour company that sold them the trip said "yes, the sea is rough, but the boat operators have made some CALCULATIONS and said you can go." And off they went.

Most tourists, unfortunately, do not have the slightest understanding of weather conditions. They hate rain and that's about it. They don't know about the corelation between strong winds and high seas and cannot read the open water sea conditions by a mere observation from the shore (e.g.: foam on top of breaking waves). Also, they do not check the boat before boarding it. While it can be very safe to approach a level 4 sea on a 30-feet sailboat, riding it on a 10-footer at 20 knots is not by far safe and definitely not comfortable.

To conclude: I doubt it that the Thai authorities will ever be able to inforce no matter what safety-at-sea regulations as long as the operators think that "money is more important than life" (quote from a Thai tour guide) and, most importantly, as long as tourists don't really give a damn about their own safety.

RIP.

I would be extremely interested to know the make of the 1,000 HP engine driving a speedboat in Thai waters.

As a travel journalist, hope you still have this information.

Thanks.

3 outbourds of 300 + HP each

or

4 outbords of 250 HP each would do the trick, many makes available

Did you read the bit about speedboat in Thai waters? As the writer of the post was talking about a passenger service.

The most i have seen was on a purpose built deep V smuggling boat travelling from Mirs Bay (Hong Kong) across into Chinese waters via Starling Inlet and that had 5 x 300HP outboards on the transom. It was carrying a minibus (yes, a minibus) and we recorded a speed of 95 knots (177kph/110mph).

[metisdead]

Some nonsense posts have been removed.

[webfact]

Last missing passenger of a speed boat accident in Koh Samui found dead



SAMUI: -- Searches for the last victim of a speed boat accident in Koh Samui were called off Sunday after the victim’s body was found stuck in boulders and partially covered with a wooden planks.

The latest victim, identified as Mr Jason Robert Parnell, 46, a Briton, went missing and believed drowned after a speed boat carrying about 150 passengers, mostly foreign tourists, capsized near Koh Samui as it was returning to the island from Ang Thong islands on May 26.

Several passengers went missing and searches were mounted by marine police, tourist police, the navy, divers and members of Koh Samui’s jetski club. Most were found during the earlier days of the searches except Mr Parnell whose body was found today and later sent to Samui hospital for an autopsy.

Authorities concerned have been working on measures to help the injured and to compensate families of the dead victims.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/165229


-- Thai PBS 2016-05-30

----------------------------------------------

Thailand speedboat capsize: Body of Jason Parnell found

KOH SAMUI:-- The body of Briton Jason Parnell, who went missing after a speedboat capsized near the island of Koh Samui in Thailand, has been found, the Foreign Office has confirmed.

According to the AFP news agency, his body had been trapped among rocks.

The Foreign Office confirmed on Saturday that Briton Monica O'Connor, 28, had also died in the accident.

A total of three people were killed when the boat, with 32 passengers and four crew, capsized on Thursday.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36407682

-- BBC 2016-05-29

[masuk]

150 people on one of those boats? Seems rather a lot, and I really wonder if there were 150 life jackets.

[jlwilliamsjr18]

There is an absolute need for licensing, safety standards and strict enforcement for all tourist transportation. Maybe, I'm dreaming.

[flyingdoc]

Perhaps some actual verifiable facts may start to emerge soon? RIP those who died.

[SOTIRIOS]

...if you haven't figured it out....you are their last concern.....

[samuijimmy]

Obviously a misprint in post 129^

A boat with 150 people would not get away from the beach...

These boats carry usually 32 people and no more... some boats licensed for 40 .... It is strictly enforced ... at least by the larger companies, I can't speak for the smaller ones.. but I have seen the Marine Dept spot checking...

(some times!) ^

Most of these tour boats have either 3 x 200 engines, or 3 x 250 .... all carry life jackets enough for everyone... getting people to wear them is a different matter, as already said.

I am not sure for those suggesting four motors, how would that fit?

Calm seas in the morning can drastically change during the day... none of us can control weather ... often the forecasts are not correct..

[clockman]

People see modern shopping malls. But do not realise behind the facade is a lawless country. Corrupt in every sector. Whose mantra is greed.

[HooHaa]

Thailand has certainly been bad luck for British tourists. It is curious that there have been no reports calling for a national boycott of Thailand. The approach to safety and holding people accountable is no different than that of IUU fishing practices. It has been 6 years since the EC began talking with the Thai government about IUU fishing and the need to correct the practices. The response is platitudes and the announcement of meetings and complaints that EC does not understand Thai culture.

The driver of this boat, assuming he is alive, should be sent to prison for 15 years, and it should happen within 90 days. No plea agreement or payments to families to lower jail time, just a criminal charge, a trial, and the maximum sentence. The owner (s) of the boat and/or the company should be paying millions of baht to each of the families of the dead and injured. This is accountability and until it is instituted Thailand will continue to loose "quality" tourists.

And if the skipper did not decide to make the trip unilaterally but was instructed to make the trip?

You don't know who made the decision, you can't be the arbiter of justice without the facts. Discovery is a largeish operation, pilots very likely go where they are told.

And what if the passengers signed a waiver, who is responsible then?

The simple answer is you don't know.

[shaurene]

Gets me so confused.

Headlines.

"32 foreign tourists, then it say 150 in the story. You would think ThaiVisa would pick this up before they publish it.

There is no way that 150 would fit on one of these boats. That is close to 6,000 kg. If. you average each one at 40kg.

Nothing will be done by the local authority's as most of these boats are owned by top Police and officials.

I hope the PM will eventually do something. Investigat who owns these boats in the main tourist areas.

They close beach Vendors down why will they not sort these MURDERS out

1: Maximun numbers allowed on these boats.

2: full licences for the drivers after rigerouse testing.

3: marine Police check before the boat is allowed to go.

4: Weather conditions, marine officials have to give the all clear on weather before the boats are allowed to move off.

I went on one of these 10 yrs ago in Pattaya. Never been since, and never will. Kids driving them.

DREAMS DREAMS DREAMS.

Come on Mr PM. Help the innocent tourists to be safe, please.

Life is so cheap to them.

[HooHaa]

Just the boost the gulf islands needed.

More senseless loss of life and negligent operations.

Thailand, the home of truly extreme tourism.

Not sure what you mean, the people still keep coming. This changes nothing.

I am currently not in Thailand, but one look at Facebook and the internet and it is very apparent that both operating the boat and purchasing a ticket ride on one was I'll advised. Did people think the waves crashing into the dock would get smaller on open water?

People need to take some responsibility here as well as the boatmen. In a cash strapped economy boats will run if demand is there.

To book a trip with another firm when you have already been told by another company that trips are cancelled due to weather and waves is rolling the dice. Nothing wrong with taking a gamble, just need to be willing to pay the price when you lose.

It is a tragedy, but who in their right mind books a trip like this when the weather is crap? It would make sense if it were a commute or travel between islands to make flights etc, but this was a leisure excursion easily cancelled.

all very valid points except we are dealing with Thailand were safety and proper training is none existent and money rules all, there may have been one or two smart people that didn't get on the boat because of the reasons in your post but generally people tend to put their faith in the operators of the boat and that they indeed are qualified and know what they are doing.

This boat is probably fit to have about 16 passengers add to that the rough weather and it is not hard to work out what is going to happen

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed

5. operators ignoring weather advice (all of the above)

6. Plain stupidity

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will this same boat and its crew be carrying 30+ people in a couple of weeks time, of course

Will authorities enforce some safety regulations - nope

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Transportation whether it is by road sea or air is dangerous, in the west you might hear of the odd bus accident on a yearly basis, in Thailand it is a weekly if not daily occurance, that just about sums it up and Thailand has been in the tourism industry for many decades, you would think they would have evolved is some way or another to at least have a general level of competence - nope, money rules all.

RIP

What you seem to misunderstand is the boat was operating within its legal carrying limits. Perhaps below.

Hindsight is 20/20 though.

[Tchooptip]

People see modern shopping malls. But do not realise behind the facade is a lawless country. Corrupt in every sector. Whose mantra is greed.

This valuable comment clears everything helping every one to understand better what's happened.

[chilli42]

People see modern shopping malls. But do not realise behind the facade is a lawless country. Corrupt in every sector. Whose mantra is greed.

Had to do a double sake on this ... thought you were talking about home (US).

[gandalf12]

I have seen the carry on of these cowboy boat pilots there is absolutely no need for the speed they travel at. They have a total disregard for the laws of the sea I have even seen them and jet skies entering where there was a surfacing buoy for divers. Clowns to say the least but we can complain on here till the 12th of never but sadly nothing will change

laws of the seas? you mean the Thai regulation stipulating how boats should be operated in Thai waters?

what is a "surfacing buoy for divers"? never heard about that before, what does it look like? how is it marked?

I can assure you that such buoys are not part of the Thai regulations for "safe travel at sea", or collission avoidance rules if you like.

I am not sure if the post has the correct name for it but it is a buoy which is orange tat divers put out to indicate there are people below.

[Capt Rob]

Just the boost the gulf islands needed.

More senseless loss of life and negligent operations.

Thailand, the home of truly extreme tourism.

Not sure what you mean, the people still keep coming. This changes nothing.

I am currently not in Thailand, but one look at Facebook and the internet and it is very apparent that both operating the boat and purchasing a ticket ride on one was I'll advised. Did people think the waves crashing into the dock would get smaller on open water?

People need to take some responsibility here as well as the boatmen. In a cash strapped economy boats will run if demand is there.

To book a trip with another firm when you have already been told by another company that trips are cancelled due to weather and waves is rolling the dice. Nothing wrong with taking a gamble, just need to be willing to pay the price when you lose.

It is a tragedy, but who in their right mind books a trip like this when the weather is crap? It would make sense if it were a commute or travel between islands to make flights etc, but this was a leisure excursion easily cancelled.

all very valid points except we are dealing with Thailand were safety and proper training is none existent and money rules all, there may have been one or two smart people that didn't get on the boat because of the reasons in your post but generally people tend to put their faith in the operators of the boat and that they indeed are qualified and know what they are doing.

This boat is probably fit to have about 16 passengers add to that the rough weather and it is not hard to work out what is going to happen

What is wrong here is -

1. greed

2. no safety standards

3. no formal training

4. no enforcement of standards if they existed

5. operators ignoring weather advice (all of the above)

6. Plain stupidity

Will anything change as a result of this tragedy - nope because money rules all in Thailand

Will this same boat and its crew be carrying 30+ people in a couple of weeks time, of course

Will authorities enforce some safety regulations - nope

Will this happen again - 100% certain

Transportation whether it is by road sea or air is dangerous, in the west you might hear of the odd bus accident on a yearly basis, in Thailand it is a weekly if not daily occurance, that just about sums it up and Thailand has been in the tourism industry for many decades, you would think they would have evolved is some way or another to at least have a general level of competence - nope, money rules all.

RIP

What you seem to misunderstand is the boat was operating within its legal carrying limits. Perhaps below.

Hindsight is 20/20 though.

I think in summation the above, combined with many excellent comments, especially that of "chisinthai" who clearly knows his boats covers the boating spectrum.

Cannot say I have ever seen a Load Line exhibited on any of these craft or a stenciled capacity information prominently displayed.

A small part of my nautical career was enforcing vessel standards. Surveyors need to be trained by a competent transport authority who will oversight them regularly.

I would hope that international government communication is taking place regarding the safety of their travelling citizens. Given the observations by the many serious TV contributors this is the only assured way to achieve a lasting reform reform

[cracker1]

There were only 32 people on the boat and it was far from overloaded.

The accident seems to be caused by incompetent seamanship.

[samuijimmy]

There were only 32 people on the boat and it was far from overloaded.

The accident seems to be caused by incompetent seamanship.

No the accident was caused by a rogue wave, which could have be a problem for anyone....

Let's cut the BS on this thread or it will be closed.

[khunPer]

A lot has been posted about speed boat tours, safety and weather – presumably most of it by people who are not familiar with Koh Samui and neighboring islands.

I cannot speak for Thailand in general, but for Samui only. The boat operators here are normally very strict about safety, such as number of pax and life jackets, and they stay ashore if weather conditions are not right. That particular day of the accident, several – if not all – speed boat tour operators were sailing again after a number of days with tough weather. I'm living by the beach and can see two of the major tour operator's "piers", and most boats heading for Ang Thong are passing in front of me.

Even weather may look calm by land, there can be fairly unpleasant waves when out on open sea between the islands. The operators know it – sometimes when the sea looks all right, my friend from one of the boat operators can say: »don't go, big waves today«. The speed boats can easily bump quite a bit up'n'down, so if you are not used to sailing speed boats, that may feel little dangerous.

The news wrote, the captain told he was sailing close the land, due to the weather conditions. It's reported that the boat was hit by a strong wave. Staff from another speed boat operator – who had a boat there helping with rescue – said to me that the boat may have been too close to the cliffs and hit one in the rough sea. But till now, I don't think we know exactly what caused the sad accident.

Marine department do regular check on the speed boat operator's performance and safety – the picture is from one of the major tour operators, on a Full Moon Party night. Marine department for example check crew, number of passengers, that no passengers brings alcohol on-board, and that all passengers wear safety jackets. Everybody has to sign in on a passenger manifest, so there's record of how many and who are on-board. Back in time there has been two speed boat accidents in the crowded full moon nights – where probably all operators commute between Samui and Haad Rin beach with at least one departure an hour – one in 2010; and another in 2005 that presumably caused the safety to be tough, as the news stories back then talked about capsized overloaded boat without passengers wearing life jackets.

Edited May 30, 2016 by khunPer

[williamgeorgeallen]

150 people on one of those boats? Seems rather a lot, and I really wonder if there were 150 life jackets.

of course the were enough life jackets. it was made illegal not to carry atleast one life jacket for every person on a public boat several tragedies ago.

[sangfroid]

There is an absolute need for licensing, safety standards and strict enforcement for all tourist transportation. Maybe, I'm dreaming.

You are indeed dreaming!!

[melvinmelvin]

A lot has been posted about speed boat tours, safety and weather – presumably most of it by people who are not familiar with Koh Samui and neighboring islands.

I cannot speak for Thailand in general, but for Samui only. The boat operators here are normally very strict about safety, such as number of pax and life jackets, and they stay ashore if weather conditions are not right. That particular day of the accident, several – if not all – speed boat tour operators were sailing again after a number of days with tough weather. I'm living by the beach and can see two of the major tour operator's "piers", and most boats heading for Ang Thong are passing in front of me.

Even weather may look calm by land, there can be fairly unpleasant waves when out on open sea between the islands. The operators know it – sometimes when the sea looks all right, my friend from one of the boat operators can say: »don't go, big waves today«. The speed boats can easily bump quite a bit up'n'down, so if you are not used to sailing speed boats, that may feel little dangerous.

The news wrote, the captain told he was sailing close the land, due to the weather conditions. It's reported that the boat was hit by a strong wave. Staff from another speed boat operator – who had a boat there helping with rescue – said to me that the boat may have been too close to the cliffs and hit one in the rough sea. But till now, I don't think we know exactly what caused the sad accident.

wFMP-marine-dept-check_DSC03232.jpg

Marine department do regular check on the speed boat operator's performance and safety – the picture is from one of the major tour operators, on a Full Moon Party night. Marine department for example check crew, number of passengers, that no passengers brings alcohol on-board, and that all passengers wear safety jackets. Everybody has to sign in on a passenger manifest, so there's record of how many and who are on-board. Back in time there has been two speed boat accidents in the crowded full moon nights – where probably all operators commute between Samui and Haad Rin beach with at least one departure an hour – one in 2010; and another in 2005 that presumably caused the safety to be tough, as the news stories back then talked about capsized overloaded boat without passengers wearing life jackets.

at last, another sensible entry, thank you

agree with what you say, "until now we don't know the exact cause of the incident,"

I said something similar way back in this thread; there is more to this accident than what has surfaced so far,

that the boat hit a shoal or a cliff or something wouldn't surprise me at all and could explain the flip

these boats don't flip over easily if the driver has at least a half baked idea on how to drive in swells,

especially when the boats have lots of farang onboard which will result in a fairly low vertical centre of gravity

(longitudinal centre of gravity would normally be of no concern to these drivers because of how the pax are seated)

-----

lots of criticism re clueless thai drivers have been expressed in this thread, fair enough,

clueless criticism from people who know buggar all about what they criticise doesn't concern me much, get rapidly used to such on TV

however,

I've seen some entries in this thread that worries me deeply,

farang (I assume) pissed off by thai drivers,

offering what they consider expert opinions and advice on how to drive these boats in bothersome/troublesome/unpleasent/challenging wave conditions

what a couple of these guys advocated scares the shit out of me, I'd go with a young clueless half drunk thai driver anytime to avoid the expert farangs in this thread

one chap, forgot the name, advocated the need to maintain speed and taking swells on the beam, fine, that works well,

and the driver can easily adjust with rudder/speed to make a smooth ride

some weird comments about deadrise offered here that makes me wonder, but what the heck

slow down to 10/12 knots, take the swells on the quarter

thats one of those where I would regret not going with a half drunk clueless thai driver

I just cannot believe it, this is exactly what you would do if you fancy inviting Mr Death onboard, might aswell hang out a ladder to make it easier for Mr Death to board

if there is any point around the hull where you don't want the swells to hit, its the quarter at slow speeds, unless you want to die quick quick

any other angle of attack; beam, bow, smack on the nose, bang on the ass, anywhere - but the quarter,

you cant do worse than swells on the quarter at slow speed

(just my tuppence w)

[HooHaa]

Due to my job as a travel journalist I had many a "chance" to enjoy the services of Thai boat operators.

**************merciful snip*********

RIP.

I would be extremely interested to know the make of the 1,000 HP engine driving a speedboat in Thai waters.

As a travel journalist, hope you still have this information.

Thanks.

As prone as our travel Journalist freind is to hyperbole, jargon and awkward sentence construction, 4 x 250 up mercury outboards adds up to 1000hp.

[uptheos]

So easy to blame Thailand for everything, as if nothing happens in the west like this.

TWO British men have been charged with immigration offences after 18 Albanians were rescued from a sinking boat in the English Channel.

A Home Office spokesman confirmed the two arrested men, one aged 33 and the other 35, face charges under Section 25 (1) of the Immigration Act 1971 .

They are both due before Medway Magistrates' Court later.

Two children and a woman were among the group of 18 Albanians aboard the rigid-hulled inflatable boat which began to sink off Dymchurch, Kent, on Saturday night.

[samuijimmy]

Off topic posts removed...

[Johpa]

People see modern shopping malls. But do not realise behind the facade is a lawless country. Corrupt in every sector. Whose mantra is greed.

So...uh...welcome to the global economy espoused by all the neoliberal leaning politicians who imbibe the kool-aid of junk economics. Unless of course you just have it in for Thai people in general like so many posters here who are mostly just racist dolts.

[evadgib]

So easy to blame Thailand for everything, as if nothing happens in the west like this.

TWO British men have been charged with immigration offences after 18 Albanians were rescued from a sinking boat in the English Channel.

A Home Office spokesman confirmed the two arrested men, one aged 33 and the other 35, face charges under Section 25 (1) of the Immigration Act 1971 .

They are both due before Medway Magistrates' Court later.

Two children and a woman were among the group of 18 Albanians aboard the rigid-hulled inflatable boat which began to sink off Dymchurch, Kent, on Saturday night.

Theirs wasn't exactly a day trip round dungeoness though was it Edited May 31, 2016 by evadgib

[samuijimmy]

Since this thread is going nowhere, perhaps time to close for now at least.

Condolences to the families members who lost loved ones in the accident ....

Closed//