Bringing Thaksin To Account

[Koo82]

I've seen so many subjects about Khun Thaksin that he was wrong for this and that but still nothing has been announced further. Am I right that so far he has only the land case? Nothing more?

[sriracha john]

I've seen so many subjects about Khun Thaksin that he was wrong for this and that but still nothing has been announced further. Am I right that so far he has only the land case? Nothing more?

The land case is his only conviction, to date, but there's more... lots more... in various stages...

We can see that Thaksin's underlings are continuing to face cases, eg. the latest in:

Watana for 1.2 Billion Baht bribery corruption with the Ua-Arthorn housing projects:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Accu...32.html&hl=

Thaksin Accused By Assets Examination Committee On Deals

There's also cases for Thaksin off-spring including recent developments in:

Panthongtae's involvement in the 9 Billion Baht bank scandal:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...27.html&hl=

Thaksin To Face New Corruption Charge Over Improper Bank Loans, NACC to files charges to Attorney-General

and siblings and in-laws:

Yingluck and the Damapongs' involvement in Billions of assets concealment with Thaksin's company:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-Face...57.html&hl=

Thaksin May Face More Arrest Warrants

and a host of other Thaksin cases are awaiting his return to Thailand for further processing:

Thaksin and his 38 Billion Baht lottery scam:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-30-M...97.html&hl=

Thaksin And 30 Members Of His Cabinet Indicted

Thaksin and Billions of Baht stolen from the Treasury in the mobile phone scandal:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Supreme-Cour...12.html&hl=

Supreme Court Takes New Case Against Thaksin Over Mobile Phone Concession

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Attorney-Gen...48.html&hl=

Attorney-General Files New Telecom Case Against Thaksin At Supreme Court, alleges 40 Billion Baht in damages

Thaksin's scamming 1 Billion Baht in the Burma case:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Supreme-Cour...69.html&hl=

Supreme Court Takes New Case Against Thaksin Over Myanmar Loan

There's a few more corruption related cases as well and certainly worth mentioning are the on-going investigations into Thaksin's role in several other cases ranging from the murder of civil rights lawyer Somchai to the murder of Shipping Moo to prevent his testifying against corruption by Thaksin's company.

But don't worry... he's got a battalion of lawyers working on all of them... hopefully they won't attempt to bribe judges anymore and will be able to stay out of prison themselves.

Edited March 19, 2009 by sriracha john

[animatic]

It is an impressive list for such a short period of time.

Seems he just let his power go to his head and a big way,

'Can't touch this.'

Except it seems THEY can...

Edited March 19, 2009 by animatic

[Ricardo]

I've seen so many subjects about Khun Thaksin that he was wrong for this and that but still nothing has been announced further. Am I right that so far he has only the land case? Nothing more?

Do you think this might be, because he has run away, and is in self-imposed exile, having been found guilty in the one case, even though his nominee-government was in power at the time ?

I'm sure we'd all like these other cases to be completed, and Thaksin proven innocent (as you believe) or guilty (as most of us expect), but your hero is too busy 'fighting for justice' from overseas to actually come and experience it at first hand.

People can't complain about the lack of progress in these cases IMHO, when it is Thaksin who is delaying them, nor is it fair to complain that the cases against PAD-leaders go slowly, when these other cases have been running for years. Justice runs slowly here, as in many other countries, including my own country-of-birth. We farangs just observe, and draw our own conclusions, about why he might not wish these cases to reach a conclusion.

[bungy007]

^^The killings were only illegal and actionable if Thaksin ordered them.

If someone else was involved in the process of green-lighting the slayings - and that person is still in 'play', then this entire issue is a no-no.

Remember: there are only ever war criminals on the losing side.

Whatever the politcal point surely journalists should question someone who claims to be a democrat and yet oversaw the biggest human rights abuse in recent Thai history. The number of dead is close to the number claimed in the official Chilean report into Pinochets death squads.

By international standards the head of governmennt bears ultimate reponsibility for government policies.

Thaksin is responsible for this and yet constantly gets a free pass from an international journalist corps admittedly discredited by their willingness to cheerlead the gulf war and various other littel embarrassments. Hwoever, one hopes sometimes for a higher standard. Surely exposing mass murder at everyu opportunity would be such a case.

Of course there are only war criminals on a losing side - the just following orders defence worked well in the case of the Chegnogne massacre - however in spite of Thaksins constant use of the description "civil war" there is actually no war in Thailand just a poltical battle and supporters of the ex-PM seem to be doing well enough getting their story out, and both sides seem to be trying to revise histroy to their viewpoint. However, dont journalists have a different duty or are they just pawns to peddle convenietns myths, memes and tired old politcal lines these days? I would be interested to hear what a journalist thought on this If indeed we can believe the labels people give themselves on anonymous web boards.

.Anyway it wasn't mass murder and to describe it in this way doesn't help your cause (which actually is mine too)

On the other major human rights issue, the Tak Bai massacre there is a similar constraint given the refusa of the Thai army to investigate and punish its own human right abuses.Abhisit has made the right noises but so far zero action.

What do you mean 'it wasn't mass murder'? Do the figures of those summararily executed - without trial which run into the thousands, not count as 'mass' by your definitions? Or do you mean that because it was a protracted affair which spanned a number of months (while being scrutinised by Thaksin and his cronies with warnings given out to those governors whose death squads hadn't hit their designated targets) meant that it didn't qualify as mass murder as the Thai people weren't all executed at the same time? Perhaps you think that being accosted, tied up and shot execution style with no access to the judiciary process doesn't constitute 'murder'?

Please clarify your comments?

[jayboy]

^^The killings were only illegal and actionable if Thaksin ordered them.

If someone else was involved in the process of green-lighting the slayings - and that person is still in 'play', then this entire issue is a no-no.

Remember: there are only ever war criminals on the losing side.

Whatever the politcal point surely journalists should question someone who claims to be a democrat and yet oversaw the biggest human rights abuse in recent Thai history. The number of dead is close to the number claimed in the official Chilean report into Pinochets death squads.

By international standards the head of governmennt bears ultimate reponsibility for government policies.

Thaksin is responsible for this and yet constantly gets a free pass from an international journalist corps admittedly discredited by their willingness to cheerlead the gulf war and various other littel embarrassments. Hwoever, one hopes sometimes for a higher standard. Surely exposing mass murder at everyu opportunity would be such a case.

Of course there are only war criminals on a losing side - the just following orders defence worked well in the case of the Chegnogne massacre - however in spite of Thaksins constant use of the description "civil war" there is actually no war in Thailand just a poltical battle and supporters of the ex-PM seem to be doing well enough getting their story out, and both sides seem to be trying to revise histroy to their viewpoint. However, dont journalists have a different duty or are they just pawns to peddle convenietns myths, memes and tired old politcal lines these days? I would be interested to hear what a journalist thought on this If indeed we can believe the labels people give themselves on anonymous web boards.

.Anyway it wasn't mass murder and to describe it in this way doesn't help your cause (which actually is mine too)

On the other major human rights issue, the Tak Bai massacre there is a similar constraint given the refusa of the Thai army to investigate and punish its own human right abuses.Abhisit has made the right noises but so far zero action.

What do you mean 'it wasn't mass murder'? Do the figures of those summararily executed - without trial which run into the thousands, not count as 'mass' by your definitions? Or do you mean that because it was a protracted affair which spanned a number of months (while being scrutinised by Thaksin and his cronies with warnings given out to those governors whose death squads hadn't hit their designated targets) meant that it didn't qualify as mass murder as the Thai people weren't all executed at the same time? Perhaps you think that being accosted, tied up and shot execution style with no access to the judiciary process doesn't constitute 'murder'?

Please clarify your comments?

The killings offend me as much as anyone.I'm not at all sure "mass murder" is the right term (think Bosnia, Rwanda, Armenia) but I'm certainly not prepared to argue the toss on it.

[hammered]

It is interesting that the numbers of dead in Thailand are close to the numbers of dead mentioned in the Rettig report re Pinochet's Chile. Maybe Thailand could do with having a Rettig style report itself.

[Koo82]

Good luck for those who are trying to bring my Prime Minister to account.

[jackspratt]

Good luck for those who are trying to bring my Prime Minister to account.

Probably your only post on TV that I have agrees with.

The very best of luck, and hopefully great success.

[bungy007]

Good luck for those who are trying to bring my Prime Minister to account.

Errr! You mean ex-Prime Minister. A shame that it needs to be done and that he cannot account for his own actions! You would think that holding such an esteemed office as PM would trigger some self of self-accountability for his actions but sadly he is still trying to wiggle out.

[bungy007]

.Anyway it wasn't mass murder and to describe it in this way doesn't help your cause (which actually is mine too)

On the other major human rights issue, the Tak Bai massacre there is a similar constraint given the refusa of the Thai army to investigate and punish its own human right abuses.Abhisit has made the right noises but so far zero action.

What do you mean 'it wasn't mass murder'? Do the figures of those summararily executed - without trial which run into the thousands, not count as 'mass' by your definitions? Or do you mean that because it was a protracted affair which spanned a number of months (while being scrutinised by Thaksin and his cronies with warnings given out to those governors whose death squads hadn't hit their designated targets) meant that it didn't qualify as mass murder as the Thai people weren't all executed at the same time? Perhaps you think that being accosted, tied up and shot execution style with no access to the judiciary process doesn't constitute 'murder'?

Please clarify your comments?

The killings offend me as much as anyone.I'm not at all sure "mass murder" is the right term (think Bosnia, Rwanda, Armenia) but I'm certainly not prepared to argue the toss on it.

I think that the given figures of between 2,500 and 5000 Thai people extra judicially killed by the police qualifies as mass murder. What else could it be classified as - an act of God? (Maybe Taksin sees it as that)

[sriracha john]

Fabricated Drug-Murder Case Sent to Anti-Corruption Panel

The Department of Special Investigation has concluded its investigation into the killings of a couple from Tak province who were accused of being drug traffickers during the anti-drug war conducted by the Thaksin government. Its findings will be sent to the National Anti-Corruption Commission for possible further action.

An official from the Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, revealed that the investigation into the killings of Phongthep and Aumpaipan Rookongprasert, has been concluded. The results will be sent to the National Anti-Corruption Commission, or NACC.

The couple, who ran a transportation company based in Tak province, were shot dead on the night of May 2003 while travelling on a northern road and accused of being drug traffickers during the controversial war on drugs conducted by the government of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Police reportedly found 200 amphetamine pills in the couple's car and later confiscated 20 million baht worth of their assets, which they claimed were bought with drug money. The money was donated to the illegal-drug suppression fund.

However, relatives of the couple have adamantly denied that they were involved in drug trafficking and demanded an investigation. The DSI was assigned to investigate and found no evidence the couple was linked to drug trafficking.

The DSI discovered that before he was shot dead, Phongthep Rookongprasert had filed a petition against a police official with the National Anti-Corruption Commission complaining he had been unfairly accused of conducting criminal activity under the guise of his transport business.

Some DSI investigators have speculated that the couple were murdered in retaliation for the complaint and that the crime scene was fabricated to make it appear they were murdered by a drug gang.

Human rights advocates say at least 2,000 people were killed during the war on drugs, many of them victims of extrajudicial killings by the police.

-- Tan Network 2009-05-07

[hammered]

It doesnt really matter if people were alleged drug dealers or not, they remain innocent until proven guity in a court of law.

[Artisi]

Good luck for those who are trying to bring my Prime Minister to account. In a country having true democracy, there are no army coups knocking democratically elected governments

" In a country having true democracy, there are no army coups knocking democratically elected governments"

It should read, In a country having true democracy, there are no prime mimisters condoning mass murder.

Edited May 7, 2009 by LivinginKata
Flame removed

[dee123]

Extra judicial killings under Thaksin time and more recently Rohingya boat people controversy both involved Col Manas Kongpan of ISOC,....(Thai court found him directly responsible for deaths of muslim insurgents),....but under Abhisit goverment all charges against Manas Kongpan were mysteriously dropped, can anyone here on Thaivisa.com explain to me how this came about.

Edited May 8, 2009 by dee123

[Plus]

Could it be because Thai army was following standard operating procedures for dealing with Rohingya? You can't prosecute them for following orders.

all charges against Manas Kongpan were mysteriously dropped

This quote implies that he was charged in the court of law - nothing like this has ever happened. Manas has never been charged with anything, you can't drop what is not there.

It's not Abhisit's job to charge anyone for whatever happened five years ago. He can only start some sort of new investigation in the old case, if it seems important enough to make room in his schedule.

[sriracha john]

NACC widens probe into couple's death

The case of a couple killed during the Thaksin administration's war on drugs in 2003 has been sent to the national anti-graft agency for further investigation. The Department of Special Investigation forwarded the case to the National Anti-Corruption Commission after it found the couple were innocent victims of a police shooting. It does not believe they were involved in the drug trade as alleged.

Piyawat Kingket, head of special criminal cases for the DSI, said the agency sent the case of Pongthep and Ampaipan Rukhongprasert to the NACC yesterday. The NACC will also decide whether the couple's assets, seized by the Office of the Narcotics Control Board (ONCB), should be returned to their family.

Police shot dead the couple, owners of Bangkok Thanapong Transport Co in Tak's Mae Sot district, on May 18, 2003 on suspicions they were involved in drugs. Col Piyawat said the evidence suggested the couple were falsely accused.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-08

[bungy007]

NACC widens probe into couple's death

The case of a couple killed during the Thaksin administration's war on drugs in 2003 has been sent to the national anti-graft agency for further investigation. The Department of Special Investigation forwarded the case to the National Anti-Corruption Commission after it found the couple were innocent victims of a police shooting. It does not believe they were involved in the drug trade as alleged.

Piyawat Kingket, head of special criminal cases for the DSI, said the agency sent the case of Pongthep and Ampaipan Rukhongprasert to the NACC yesterday. The NACC will also decide whether the couple's assets, seized by the Office of the Narcotics Control Board (ONCB), should be returned to their family.

Police shot dead the couple, owners of Bangkok Thanapong Transport Co in Tak's Mae Sot district, on May 18, 2003 on suspicions they were involved in drugs. Col Piyawat said the evidence suggested the couple were falsely accused.

Continued:

-- Bangkok Post 2009-05-08

Let's hope that those involved who are still in the country and at their posts are also brought into the investigation This was a nationwide scourge involving every level of politics and the police! It was a national disgrace and shouldn't be hushed up or buried. If ever there was a time to make justice being seen to be done, it is now and on this national crime

[Samuian]

The "war on drugs" is one of the more fundamental reasons

why the reign of this man remains an intense thread to the

safety of this countries citizens and their freedom!

"It can be concluded that this was not much more and not less

the green light to eliminate economic competitors or simply

to scavange on accumulated wealth of ordinary people!

some sort of personal rewarding at random....

Reminds one of feudalistic rule....

[jayboy]

The "war on drugs" is one of the more fundamental reasons

why the reign of this man remains an intense thread to the

safety of this countries citizens and their freedom!

"It can be concluded that this was not much more and not less

the green light to eliminate economic competitors or simply

to scavange on accumulated wealth of ordinary people!

some sort of personal rewarding at random....

Reminds one of feudalistic rule....

Is the second paragraph a quotation from somewhere? If so could you please identify it.Thanks

[chrislarsson]

I've seen so many subjects about Khun Thaksin that he was wrong for this and that but still nothing has been announced further. Am I right that so far he has only the land case? Nothing more?

The land case is his only conviction, to date, but there's more... lots more... in various stages...

I don't know the details of all the other crimes. But how come the land controversy was picked first. It is such a weak case, and the conviction only made the Supreme Court look bad.

The land was purchased above market value. Bank of Thailand is an independent entity from the government. And BoT is still saying today that nothing was wrong with the bidding process.

[Samuian]

The "war on drugs" is one of the more fundamental reasons

why the reign of this man remains an intense thread to the

safety of this countries citizens and their freedom!

"It can be concluded that this was not much more and not less

the green light to eliminate economic competitors or simply

to scavange on accumulated wealth of ordinary people!

some sort of personal rewarding at random....

Reminds one of feudalistic rule....

Is the second paragraph a quotation from somewhere? If so could you please identify it.Thanks

No it isn't, my very own relating to the 'war on drugs" and what happend f.E.

to the couple mentioned a few posts above!

As in "to draw a conclusion"

"why else did happen, what happend to this couple - 20 Mill. is not considered "a little money"

wonder if these assets are still around....

Remember the response Mr.Monson regarding business relations and a law suit against Thaksin?

Where the phrase "this is thailand" was coined...

Link:

Asiasentinel:

and check some of the links from post #1202

Edited May 9, 2009 by Samuian

[Plus]

I don't know the details of all the other crimes. But how come the land controversy was picked first. It is such a weak case, and the conviction only made the Supreme Court look bad.

The land was purchased above market value. Bank of Thailand is an independent entity from the government. And BoT is still saying today that nothing was wrong with the bidding process.

Why are you so sure it was a weak case? What do you know about it?

Here's a clue - Bank of Thailand wasn't even involved.

Ahh, forget it, you'll probably never get it right, too fixated on clearing Thaksin's reputation.

[ThNiner]

I don't know the details of all the other crimes. But how come the land controversy was picked first. It is such a weak case, and the conviction only made the Supreme Court look bad.

The land was purchased above market value. Bank of Thailand is an independent entity from the government. And BoT is still saying today that nothing was wrong with the bidding process.

Why are you so sure it was a weak case? What do you know about it?

Here's a clue - Bank of Thailand wasn't even involved.

Ahh, forget it, you'll probably never get it right, too fixated on clearing Thaksin's reputation.

Judging from"The land was purchased above market value" and BoT BS, I think it's safe that to say that he obviously knows jack.

[ThNiner]

Hey, Chrislarsson, read this (and please comprehend it.)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...atchadaphisek+l

"The state bought [the land] for Bt1.908 billion but sold it for Bt772 million. They accepted a loss of more than Bt1.1 billion," Veera told the Supreme Court.

Kalayanee told the court it was very unusual as the FIDF would normally never sell anything at a loss.

"No matter what happens, they can't incur a loss," she told the court. "The Financial Institution Development Fund must have made some mistake, which led to damage to the fund itself."

[ThNiner]

Hey, Chrislarsson, read this (and please comprehend it.)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...atchadaphisek+l

"The state bought [the land] for Bt1.908 billion but sold it for Bt772 million. They accepted a loss of more than Bt1.1 billion," Veera told the Supreme Court.

Kalayanee told the court it was very unusual as the FIDF would normally never sell anything at a loss.

"No matter what happens, they can't incur a loss," she told the court. "The Financial Institution Development Fund must have made some mistake, which led to damage to the fund itself."

Valued at at least Bt1.908 billion, and sold to Potjaman for Bt772 million. Yeah, that purchased price was above the market value.

[ThNiner]

Also, if you have time to read and comprehend, here's another link

Full Details of the Ratchada Land Deal Case Against Someone's Dad

[ThNiner]

I bet their response would be, "But everyone and every dog in Thailand is corrupt! Abhisit is as corrupt as Thaksin because he got a nice haricut and hug Newin blah blah blah. So Thaksin deserves to be a permanent PM of Thailand (because he won elections that he paid for. ..that's democracy!)"

[chrislarsson]

I don't know the details of all the other crimes. But how come the land controversy was picked first. It is such a weak case, and the conviction only made the Supreme Court look bad.

The land was purchased above market value. Bank of Thailand is an independent entity from the government. And BoT is still saying today that nothing was wrong with the bidding process.

Why are you so sure it was a weak case? What do you know about it?

Here's a clue - Bank of Thailand wasn't even involved.

Ahh, forget it, you'll probably never get it right, too fixated on clearing Thaksin's reputation.

The bidding was held by the Financial Institutes Development Fund (FIDF), which was supervised by Bank of Thailand.

[chrislarsson]

Hey, Chrislarsson, read this (and please comprehend it.)

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...atchadaphisek+l

"The state bought [the land] for Bt1.908 billion but sold it for Bt772 million. They accepted a loss of more than Bt1.1 billion," Veera told the Supreme Court.

Kalayanee told the court it was very unusual as the FIDF would normally never sell anything at a loss.

"No matter what happens, they can't incur a loss," she told the court. "The Financial Institution Development Fund must have made some mistake, which led to damage to the fund itself."

Valued at at least Bt1.908 billion, and sold to Potjaman for Bt772 million. Yeah, that purchased price was above the market value.

This is the testimony of one witness, who also happens to be a key member of PAD.

1.908 billion was the book value. This is not the same as the market value.

Can you explain why the surrounding pieces of land were sold at a lower price? And who got jail sentences in these sales?

1. was sold for 38,500 baht/sq wah in Aug 2003.

2. was sold to Potjaman for 58,000 baht/ sq wah in Dec 2003.

3. was sold for 55,500 baht/sq wah in June 2004.

Edited May 9, 2009 by chrislarsson