Confusion as condo owners told they must have a work permit to rent out units

[stevenl]

Total and utter nonsense, send me a message if you are an owner in Phuket.

Not only Phuket so how do you see this as utter nonsense? Renting out your Condo or other property is an 'Income'. You 100% need a work permit and be registered as a Thai Company. As for not being in the country and renting your property out, that makes it no better, just worse. Times are a changing. Be prepared to lose the lot because that's how it works here.

A source tells me over 30 people are under investigation in Hua Hin for owning houses they actually live in and not even renting them out. The days of simply making a Thai Company just to buy a house are over.

''It is not only the authorities in Phuket which have issued warnings to property owners about renting out their condos illegally.

In May, local government officials raided residential villas and condos in Pranburi, south of Hua Hin, which were suspected of renting out rooms and operating without a hotel license''.

Wrong. There is a difference between earned income eg thru work, and unearned passive income from investments. That's why it's called a WORK permit and not a Income Permit

Agree. But renting out condo's or houses is not passive.

[Destiny1990]

Well at least we all know exactly where we stand now with all these so transparant laws and regulations.

[balo]

I don't think they can conrol this , just as they can't stop all foreigners driving without a helmet. The worst thing that could happen is a fine, if you only own 1 condo it's not really considered a business. Maybe you rent out for 6 months and live in the condo the rest of the year. Who can stop you ?

[NamKangMan]

So, a foreign Phuket condo owner is sitting in their house in the UK, Europe, America etc, and places their condo on AirBnB.

A tourists books the condo for 2 weeks, and forwards AirBnB payment.

AirBnB forward payment to the condo owner's foreign bank account, minus commission, and the foreign condo owner is "working" in Thailand and needs a work permit.

Phuket continues to embarrass itself on the world stage.

Collecting income on an asset in Thailand makes one subject to Thai income taxes, as well as other fees for operating a lodging business in the country. You may want to wish this away for your convience and greed but it's the law.

I completely agree with you, income tax and fees should be paid by these condo owners, however, the need for a work permit to rent out the condo, over the internet, when the owner is not even in Thailand, I do not agree with.

No work has been done by the foreigner inside Thailand, in fact, they are providing employment for Thai's.

I rent here. I would never buy a property in Thailand. So, my convenience and greed is not a factor.

Edited July 10, 2016 by NamKangMan

[useronthenet]

I'm sure the authorities will find a way of further penalizing foreigners with their investments. After all, the law is geared-up for foreigners to fall flat on their face.

[AUSSIE BOB]

I believe the government agency is getting it wrong here and maybe they dont have all the facts!!!

If the condo owner is managing it themselves, ie taking the booking, greeting the client sorting out issues and problems then yes I totally agree they are working and obviously taking a job away from a local. If a WP is obtained for managing a condo rental, be it one or 100 and the booking period is for more than 30 days as per the rules, then all is okay too. But if a condo owner uses the services of a management company to look after the running of the condo, promoting, renting, greeting customers and dealing with all other issues and the owner only receives a bank deposit at the end of the month then no rules are breached. Its the same all around the world and has been for a long long time. I think the only other issue to consider is the tax implications but that's not what this thread is about. My last point I want to put out there is its no different to a foreigner putting the equivalent amount of money (value of condo) in a thai bank and getting the monthly interest. The asset in this case is cash instead of bricks and mortar and the banking system generates the return for the owner of the asset. Should we now be needing a WP for having money in a bank? I don't think so.

[NamKangMan]

I don't understand why or what the confusion is. If you earn money in Thailand, you are essentially operating a business and making money. Therefore, you must pay tax and hold a work permit. This has been the rules for as long as I can remember. It is not just Thailand, but the same in other countries. If you work in Australia or UK or earn money from a business etc you would legally have to pay tax and have the correct visa etc as well. The problem is that people jump into things without doing their homework.

"Therefore, you must pay tax and hold a work permit." - pay tax, yes, have a work permit, why?

Many of these condo owners are not even living in Thailand. What "work" have they performed inside of Thailand?

"If you work in Australia or UK or earn money from a business etc you would legally have to pay tax and have the correct visa etc as well." - correct on the taxes, wrong on the visa. Foreigners can buy a house in Australia and a house in the UK, but not live in either country. Yes, taxes have to be paid, but no visa or work visa needed to rent out your property because you do not live there. It's simply an offshore investment property.

Many of these condo owners are currently not living in Thailand, this is why they are renting out their property.

Why would they need a work permit when they have performed no work in Thailand?

[jamie obda]

What is the set up? Too many keys, overbuilt, coupled with Sino-Russian package tours?

What is the end game?

Continue to rent, wait to get caught, pay a bribe?

Divest (at a loss), invest elsewhere?

Repackage 30 day rents at an under 30 day price?

I've seen condo building with less than 50% occupancy. At some point, the remaining residents are asked to pool the vacant HOA fees, disarray, disrepair ensues. It will be an interesting ride.

[NamKangMan]

So here is what I believe to be true, based on my own experience:

1) You don't need a work permit to rent out your property if you are not in Thailand.

2) If you are inside Thailand you don't need a work permit to rent out your property through either a Thai person or a foreigner who holds the correct work permit, provided you do no work yourself other than signing the Agent's contract. By work I mean you do not advertise the property, receive money directly from guests or tenants, meet guests or tenants, hand over keys, fix problems, clean rooms, change the towels, etc.

If all you do is receive a passive income that is paid to you by an Agent I don't believe you need a work permit.

However, I am not saying that the short term rental (under 30 days) of a condo is lawful. On the contrary, I believe the short term rental of a condo by anyone, whether they are a Thai or a foreigner, is unlawful.

I believe this because a condominium building falls under the definition of a structure that requires a hotel license in order to offer rooms for short term rent (ie more than 4 rooms in aggregate and/or the simultaneous use of the property by more than 20 people, for periods of less than 30 days). As condo buildings tend not to be issued a hotel license, this is where the issue of unlawful use stems from.

So, for those owners who use an agent for rentals over 30 days, I think you will be fine.

For those owners who are using an agent who allows rentals of under 30 days, you are not in such a good position and are renting your condo in a building with no hotel license when such a license is required.

For those owners who undertake the type of work I discussed above, I believe you are working without a work permit, whether for rentals for more than 30 days or less than 30 days. In reality, however, you would not be issued a work permit to undertake work such as cleaning a room - instead you should be hiring a Thai person to do that work.

For owners who personally manage aspects of a short term condo rental themselves (such as meeting guests, handing over keys, fixing problems, or instructing others to do so whilst in Thailand), I think you are in the worst position by not having a work permit and renting your condo in contravention of the Hotel Act.

I'll be very clear about this: I am not a lawyer so this is not a legal opinion. Do not get yourself into a situation where your only defense is saying, "Well blackcab said..." while you try to desperately PM me from Thong Lor police station.

On the other hand, I speak from the position of holding one of the few work permits issued that actually allows me to transact business related to property. In a nutshell, I'm a foreigner and I can rent out condos. For anyone.

Part of my job description in my work permit (attached below) states that I can:

Act as an Agent to:

Buy, Sell, Sell with the Right of Redemption, Arrange a Rental Period or Lease for a Landlord or a Tenant, for:

any Land, House, Condominium or any other Construction whatsoever, and also for:

any other kind of asset fixed to the land including rivers, ponds, trees, minerals (and much more as the list of included items is quite long).

As I said, this isn't a legal opinion, but it does come from someone who has legitimate, in-country experience of this situation.

If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to help answer them if I can.

"So here is what I believe to be true" - that's your first mistake.

Don't believe ANYTHING to be true in Thailand.

What the authorities say is true today, can be a "misunderstanding" and rescinded tomorrow.

What the authorities say is untrue today, can be a law tomorrow.

You wouldn't invest in property in Somalia, and investing in property in Thailand should be viewed as having the same risk.

[micmichd]

So here is what I believe to be true, based on my own experience:

1) You don't need a work permit to rent out your property if you are not in Thailand.

2) If you are inside Thailand you don't need a work permit to rent out your property through either a Thai person or a foreigner who holds the correct work permit, provided you do no work yourself other than signing the Agent's contract. By work I mean you do not advertise the property, receive money directly from guests or tenants, meet guests or tenants, hand over keys, fix problems, clean rooms, change the towels, etc.

If all you do is receive a passive income that is paid to you by an Agent I don't believe you need a work permit.

However, I am not saying that the short term rental (under 30 days) of a condo is lawful. On the contrary, I believe the short term rental of a condo by anyone, whether they are a Thai or a foreigner, is unlawful.

I believe this because a condominium building falls under the definition of a structure that requires a hotel license in order to offer rooms for short term rent (ie more than 4 rooms in aggregate and/or the simultaneous use of the property by more than 20 people, for periods of less than 30 days). As condo buildings tend not to be issued a hotel license, this is where the issue of unlawful use stems from.

So, for those owners who use an agent for rentals over 30 days, I think you will be fine.

For those owners who are using an agent who allows rentals of under 30 days, you are not in such a good position and are renting your condo in a building with no hotel license when such a license is required.

For those owners who undertake the type of work I discussed above, I believe you are working without a work permit, whether for rentals for more than 30 days or less than 30 days. In reality, however, you would not be issued a work permit to undertake work such as cleaning a room - instead you should be hiring a Thai person to do that work.

For owners who personally manage aspects of a short term condo rental themselves (such as meeting guests, handing over keys, fixing problems, or instructing others to do so whilst in Thailand), I think you are in the worst position by not having a work permit and renting your condo in contravention of the Hotel Act.

I'll be very clear about this: I am not a lawyer so this is not a legal opinion. Do not get yourself into a situation where your only defense is saying, "Well blackcab said..." while you try to desperately PM me from Thong Lor police station.

On the other hand, I speak from the position of holding one of the few work permits issued that actually allows me to transact business related to property. In a nutshell, I'm a foreigner and I can rent out condos. For anyone.

Part of my job description in my work permit (attached below) states that I can:

Act as an Agent to:

Buy, Sell, Sell with the Right of Redemption, Arrange a Rental Period or Lease for a Landlord or a Tenant, for:

any Land, House, Condominium or any other Construction whatsoever, and also for:

any other kind of asset fixed to the land including rivers, ponds, trees, minerals (and much more as the list of included items is quite long).

As I said, this isn't a legal opinion, but it does come from someone who has legitimate, in-country experience of this situation.

If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to help answer them if I can.

"So here is what I believe to be true" - that's your first mistake.

Don't believe ANYTHING to be true in Thailand.

What the authorities say is true today, can be a "misunderstanding" and rescinded tomorrow.

What the authorities say is untrue today, can be a law tomorrow.

You wouldn't invest in property in Somalia, and investing in property in Thailand should be viewed as having the same risk.

You're kidding. Farang countries close their labour markets for foreigners by all means, so Thailand does the same.

[mcfish]

I believe the government agency is getting it wrong here and maybe they dont have all the facts!!!

If the condo owner is managing it themselves, ie taking the booking, greeting the client sorting out issues and problems then yes I totally agree they are working and obviously taking a job away from a local. If a WP is obtained for managing a condo rental, be it one or 100 and the booking period is for more than 30 days as per the rules, then all is okay too. But if a condo owner uses the services of a management company to look after the running of the condo, promoting, renting, greeting customers and dealing with all other issues and the owner only receives a bank deposit at the end of the month then no rules are breached. Its the same all around the world and has been for a long long time. I think the only other issue to consider is the tax implications but that's not what this thread is about. My last point I want to put out there is its no different to a foreigner putting the equivalent amount of money (value of condo) in a thai bank and getting the monthly interest. The asset in this case is cash instead of bricks and mortar and the banking system generates the return for the owner of the asset. Should we now be needing a WP for having money in a bank? I don't think so.

Yep you nailed it!

And this is why they have never acted on the work permit law and never will because it will never hold up in court when challenged

Should a tax be imposed? no problem , just do what the Thais would do in this situation and bump up the rent

[pkspeaker]

No, Time Traveller shop stop posting stupid posts that this type of thing should not be posted on ThaiVisa! Ofcource THAIVISA should post stuff like this; sounds like another condo owner in denial. If they start enforcing these rules then stuff like this indicates writing on the wall and if you are a condo owner you might wanna get while the gettens good and sell now. My guess is if this goes the way of tourest visa's, they ease into it, they start to notify the people that these are the rules.. Later they start more forcefull actions like when they started turning people away from the border who were returning yet again on a tourest visa. Today might just be a notice at your condo building, thaivisa is here to monitor what happens next.

Thaivisa should stop posting scare articles based on one letter by an unnamed member of one juristic committee in one condominium in one province.
Work permits are Not required to lease out their own property. This goes to the essence of property rights under the law.
Otherwise If it were true that foreign owners are required to have work permits before allowed to "generate income" on investments, then this would have widespread implications across all assets that foreigners owned in Thailand including even requiring foreigners with bank accounts earning interest to have work permits. Would that make sense?
Anyway, an anonymous letter with a comment from their anonymous lawyer discussion with the unnamed government official doesn't carry a lot of weight.
Thaivisa should know better than to be spreading rumors. Best stick to what they do best, articles about ladyboy pickpockets and news about the unremarkable foreigners in Thailand that no one has ever heard of and boring events that happen to them

[impulse]

It seems fairly obvious to me that renting properties IS a business and as such would require a work permit for a foreigner. What's the difference between a farang renting several condos out and running a hotel renting rooms out. Both are businesses.

There's a huge difference between owning Siemens stock and living off the dividend, and going to a Siemens office and working for them. One is passive, the other is labor. I'm not aware that you'd need a WP to live off the dividends, while I'm pretty sure you'd need one to show up to work at their BKK office.

I suspect there's also a difference between taking an active role in renting out your condo, including doing the maintenance, showing the property, handing out keys, collecting the rent, etc. and having your legitimate condo investment managed for you by a legal Thai entity that takes care of the labor- whether you live in country or elsewhere.

Same-same for being an investor in a bar, vs. mixing drinks behind the bar. One is passive income, the other is labor. I'm pretty sure that a British investor in a Pattaya bar doesn't need a WP to rake in all that cash, especially if he's sitting in London.

[NamKangMan]

So here is what I believe to be true, based on my own experience:

1) You don't need a work permit to rent out your property if you are not in Thailand.

2) If you are inside Thailand you don't need a work permit to rent out your property through either a Thai person or a foreigner who holds the correct work permit, provided you do no work yourself other than signing the Agent's contract. By work I mean you do not advertise the property, receive money directly from guests or tenants, meet guests or tenants, hand over keys, fix problems, clean rooms, change the towels, etc.

If all you do is receive a passive income that is paid to you by an Agent I don't believe you need a work permit.

However, I am not saying that the short term rental (under 30 days) of a condo is lawful. On the contrary, I believe the short term rental of a condo by anyone, whether they are a Thai or a foreigner, is unlawful.

I believe this because a condominium building falls under the definition of a structure that requires a hotel license in order to offer rooms for short term rent (ie more than 4 rooms in aggregate and/or the simultaneous use of the property by more than 20 people, for periods of less than 30 days). As condo buildings tend not to be issued a hotel license, this is where the issue of unlawful use stems from.

So, for those owners who use an agent for rentals over 30 days, I think you will be fine.

For those owners who are using an agent who allows rentals of under 30 days, you are not in such a good position and are renting your condo in a building with no hotel license when such a license is required.

For those owners who undertake the type of work I discussed above, I believe you are working without a work permit, whether for rentals for more than 30 days or less than 30 days. In reality, however, you would not be issued a work permit to undertake work such as cleaning a room - instead you should be hiring a Thai person to do that work.

For owners who personally manage aspects of a short term condo rental themselves (such as meeting guests, handing over keys, fixing problems, or instructing others to do so whilst in Thailand), I think you are in the worst position by not having a work permit and renting your condo in contravention of the Hotel Act.

I'll be very clear about this: I am not a lawyer so this is not a legal opinion. Do not get yourself into a situation where your only defense is saying, "Well blackcab said..." while you try to desperately PM me from Thong Lor police station.

On the other hand, I speak from the position of holding one of the few work permits issued that actually allows me to transact business related to property. In a nutshell, I'm a foreigner and I can rent out condos. For anyone.

Part of my job description in my work permit (attached below) states that I can:

Act as an Agent to:

Buy, Sell, Sell with the Right of Redemption, Arrange a Rental Period or Lease for a Landlord or a Tenant, for:

any Land, House, Condominium or any other Construction whatsoever, and also for:

any other kind of asset fixed to the land including rivers, ponds, trees, minerals (and much more as the list of included items is quite long).

As I said, this isn't a legal opinion, but it does come from someone who has legitimate, in-country experience of this situation.

If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to help answer them if I can.

"So here is what I believe to be true" - that's your first mistake.

Don't believe ANYTHING to be true in Thailand.

What the authorities say is true today, can be a "misunderstanding" and rescinded tomorrow.

What the authorities say is untrue today, can be a law tomorrow.

You wouldn't invest in property in Somalia, and investing in property in Thailand should be viewed as having the same risk.

You're kidding. Farang countries close their labour markets for foreigners by all means, so Thailand does the same.

Show me where I have mentioned "working." In any case, "farang countries" genuinely offer residency and citizenship, which allows people to work in any industry - not Thailand. You could be married to a Thai women, raise kids here, and live here for 20 years, you will still come under the Thai labor laws.

I'm talking about foreigners buying property in Thailand.

They can, and do, change the goal posts at anytime, for anything.

[jmccarty]

They also claim that the proper taxation must be paid to Patong municipality

Like all the Thai condo, hotel and guest house owner do???

Yes, the Pattaya and Hua Hin property owners also need to pay the Patong municipality.

[baywatch82]

What if someone have a work permit, because is working as a teacher and school organized a work permit.
Does that work permit ticks the box ?

[stevenl]

What if someone have a work permit, because is working as a teacher and school organized a work permit.

Does that work permit ticks the box ?

No, unless it describes renting out real estate as his profession.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Can someone please tell me? Does this also apply to people with houses too? Because the same practice can be carried out.If a guy owns a house and spends 6 months or so back in his country for business reasons,and he invites his friends to stay in his house as a holiday let for a visit to Thailand,is this not the same thing.

What about people who own several houses in different parts of the country?

Also what about the adds you see,on the bill boards advertising condo's for sale and giving the expected profit return when renting out.

Just askin'

[baywatch82]

What if someone have a work permit, because is working as a teacher and school organized a work permit.

Does that work permit ticks the box ?

No, unless it describes renting out real estate as his profession.

But I imagine that obtaining such a work permit specific for renting out condos would be impossible.

Anyway, this article is a nonsense. Just a story of some stupid management of 1 building out of millions, who took it all wrong.

[Puccini]

Total and utter nonsense, send me a message if you are an owner in Phuket.

I'd be grateful for more information.

[taxin]

First of all, the director of Phuket Palace is always intimidating and doing his best with disinformation to profit from the condo owners there, thus the signature " Jurassic person " on this document, This man is a complete criminal who needs to be dealt with.

Finally after reading through all this nonsense there is one other person who views the OP for what it really is, nothing more than an intimidating notice to its condo owners in a development that has been in constant battles over the years with its owners. I am truly amazed that a fake letter with absolutely no substance behind it can turn into a 13 page thread. The only "confusion" is that being generated by TV by posting this.

You do not need a WP to rent out accommodation in Thailand providing you have someone doing the work for you (i.e. handing over the keys, servicing the room), if anyone advises otherwise they are giving you false information, either because they have been misinformed themselves, or they are bitterly envious towards people who own condos as they will never own one themselves. However, the whole WP thing is completely irrelevant in the case of renting a condo under 30 days as it is illegal to do so, whether you have a WP or not.

As for future condo developments all you doomsayers will be disappointed to hear that provisions are already in place for this. As another poster recently mentioned a condo building can operate as a hotel by allocating a section of the project, this will all be put into place very early on and made clear upon the owner signing the sales agreement where owners agree from day one. There are condo developers now in Phuket who are actively selling with rules in place that stipulate the owner cannot rent out the the unit themselves, therefore eliminating the potential problems with owners selling on AirBnb and the likes. One condo developer even has a rule in place that should you place your condo in the rental pool there is a compulsory cleaning fee to pay, this is during the actual owners usage days that they are allocated as part of being in the rental pool, along with the rule of not allowing owners to rent their condos out themselves this is a great idea and a step in the right direction.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[Peterw42]

First of all, the director of Phuket Palace is always intimidating and doing his best with disinformation to profit from the condo owners there, thus the signature " Jurassic person " on this document, This man is a complete criminal who needs to be dealt with.

Finally after reading through all this nonsense there is one other person who views the OP for what it really is, nothing more than an intimidating notice to its condo owners in a development that has been in constant battles over the years with its owners. I am truly amazed that a fake letter with absolutely no substance behind it can turn into a 13 page thread. The only "confusion" is that being generated by TV by posting this.

You do not need a WP to rent out accommodation in Thailand providing you have someone doing the work for you (i.e. handing over the keys, servicing the room), if anyone advises otherwise they are giving you false information, either because they have been misinformed themselves, or they are bitterly envious towards people who own condos as they will never own one themselves. However, the whole WP thing is completely irrelevant in the case of renting a condo under 30 days as it is illegal to do so, whether you have a WP or not.

As for future condo developments all you doomsayers will be disappointed to hear that provisions are already in place for this. As another poster recently mentioned a condo building can operate as a hotel by allocating a section of the project, this will all be put into place very early on and made clear upon the owner signing the sales agreement where owners agree from day one. There are condo developers now in Phuket who are actively selling with rules in place that stipulate the owner cannot rent out the the unit themselves, therefore eliminating the potential problems with owners selling on AirBnb and the likes. One condo developer even has a rule in place that should you place your condo in the rental pool there is a compulsory cleaning fee to pay, this is during the actual owners usage days that they are allocated as part of being in the rental pool, along with the rule of not allowing owners to rent their condos out themselves this is a great idea and a step in the right direction.

Finally, a sensible, rational and factual post.

There is "NO" requirement for a WP for long term rentals.

Even if such a law exists, it has not been enforced in the past, present, and no plans to enforce it in the future.

There is no "slap in the face", "nail in the coffin" "targeting of westerners",

As nothing has changed.

Condos in Thailand are still dirt cheap and offer great rental returns.

[Puccini]

I think it's safe to assume that this new law will not help to boost the sales of new condo units. Most condo owners who do not live there would like to rent out .

There is no new law. Its always been in place except that someone has brought it up on Thai Visa for us experts to dissect and will be forgotten within 3 days as we dissect other more pressing matters

What section of what law is this, please? I'd like to look for this law and post the relevant section in this topic.

[Puccini]

I think it's safe to assume that this new law will not help to boost the sales of new condo units. Most condo owners who do not live there would like to rent out .

It is not a new Law. It has always been illegal to earn an income in Thailand and not be in possession of a work permit...

I earn money in Thailand, income from investment, ie interest on time deposit accounts, dividends on shares I own. Do I need a work permit?

[LivinginKata]

I earn money in Thailand, income from investment, ie interest on time deposit accounts, dividends on shares I own. Do I need a work permit?

Think you'll find that this is taxed at source. No WP required.

[mcfish]

I think it's safe to assume that this new law will not help to boost the sales of new condo units. Most condo owners who do not live there would like to rent out .

There is no new law. Its always been in place except that someone has brought it up on Thai Visa for us experts to dissect and will be forgotten within 3 days as we dissect other more pressing matters

What section of what law is this, please? I'd like to look for this law and post the relevant section in this topic.

That should have read thats never been in place. I was typing between 2 threads and got muddled

[mcfish]

"We must stress that Thaivisa has been unable to verify the claims made in the notice which is dated June 29."

Even thai visa have distanced themselves from this anonymous hand typed letter

[harrry]

everybody wants Thailand to modernise and rise above the 3rd world status

If you rent a property in the UK you have to register and pay taxes, some people do it for a living - it is their primary income and employment, why should it be any different in Thailand ?

In Thailand, you will pay taxes at the time when you sell the property.

That is not completely true. there are taxes paid to the local council equivalent which should be and are higher for rental properties than owner occupiers. There is a land tax payable which is higher for rentals and should be paid annually but often is not.

My Thai inlaws do pay these on the two small houses they have.

[micmichd]

So here is what I believe to be true, based on my own experience:

1) You don't need a work permit to rent out your property if you are not in Thailand.

2) If you are inside Thailand you don't need a work permit to rent out your property through either a Thai person or a foreigner who holds the correct work permit, provided you do no work yourself other than signing the Agent's contract. By work I mean you do not advertise the property, receive money directly from guests or tenants, meet guests or tenants, hand over keys, fix problems, clean rooms, change the towels, etc.

If all you do is receive a passive income that is paid to you by an Agent I don't believe you need a work permit.

However, I am not saying that the short term rental (under 30 days) of a condo is lawful. On the contrary, I believe the short term rental of a condo by anyone, whether they are a Thai or a foreigner, is unlawful.

I believe this because a condominium building falls under the definition of a structure that requires a hotel license in order to offer rooms for short term rent (ie more than 4 rooms in aggregate and/or the simultaneous use of the property by more than 20 people, for periods of less than 30 days). As condo buildings tend not to be issued a hotel license, this is where the issue of unlawful use stems from.

So, for those owners who use an agent for rentals over 30 days, I think you will be fine.

For those owners who are using an agent who allows rentals of under 30 days, you are not in such a good position and are renting your condo in a building with no hotel license when such a license is required.

For those owners who undertake the type of work I discussed above, I believe you are working without a work permit, whether for rentals for more than 30 days or less than 30 days. In reality, however, you would not be issued a work permit to undertake work such as cleaning a room - instead you should be hiring a Thai person to do that work.

For owners who personally manage aspects of a short term condo rental themselves (such as meeting guests, handing over keys, fixing problems, or instructing others to do so whilst in Thailand), I think you are in the worst position by not having a work permit and renting your condo in contravention of the Hotel Act.

I'll be very clear about this: I am not a lawyer so this is not a legal opinion. Do not get yourself into a situation where your only defense is saying, "Well blackcab said..." while you try to desperately PM me from Thong Lor police station.

On the other hand, I speak from the position of holding one of the few work permits issued that actually allows me to transact business related to property. In a nutshell, I'm a foreigner and I can rent out condos. For anyone.

Part of my job description in my work permit (attached below) states that I can:

Act as an Agent to:

Buy, Sell, Sell with the Right of Redemption, Arrange a Rental Period or Lease for a Landlord or a Tenant, for:

any Land, House, Condominium or any other Construction whatsoever, and also for:

any other kind of asset fixed to the land including rivers, ponds, trees, minerals (and much more as the list of included items is quite long).

As I said, this isn't a legal opinion, but it does come from someone who has legitimate, in-country experience of this situation.

If anyone has any questions I'll do my best to help answer them if I can.

"So here is what I believe to be true" - that's your first mistake.

Don't believe ANYTHING to be true in Thailand.

What the authorities say is true today, can be a "misunderstanding" and rescinded tomorrow.

What the authorities say is untrue today, can be a law tomorrow.

You wouldn't invest in property in Somalia, and investing in property in Thailand should be viewed as having the same risk.

You're kidding. Farang countries close their labour markets for foreigners by all means, so Thailand does the same.

Show me where I have mentioned "working." In any case, "farang countries" genuinely offer residency and citizenship, which allows people to work in any industry - not Thailand. You could be married to a Thai women, raise kids here, and live here for 20 years, you will still come under the Thai labor laws.

I'm talking about foreigners buying property in Thailand.

They can, and do, change the goal posts at anytime, for anything.

"Working" (the jobs you're allowed to take) is part of your working permit.