Confusion as condo owners told they must have a work permit to rent out units

[Johnniey]

If you can afford to buy condos, you can afford to rent a lawyer to sort this out or pay the required tea money. Surely?

[Peterw42]

This is pretty simple, No daily rental unless you are a hotel, you cant be a hotel without a work permit.

Monthly rental, work permit not required. If it is handled by an Agent, you are not actually working.

Can someone produce a Thai gov document stating a work permit is required for monthly rental.?????

The only thing produced so far is the minutes from someones condo meeting.

[impulse]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others?That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

Or they simply allow there wifes to buy them problem solved and no not your money gift you give your wife which I believe is allowed.

Jeez. Life here is complicated enough without a wife of any variety. That's like burning down the house to get rid of the mice...

[micmichd]

So to qualify for a work permit you must employ four Thais, what are they going to do?

Four housekeepers in a 1 bedroom condo????

Set up a joint venture with 4 Thais, get it registered, and you qualify for a business visa.

If it makes you happy to work as an employee, make sure you get a job in a profession that can't be taken by a Thai, and you're ready to qualify for a working permit.

If you're married with a Thai lady and ready to stay in Thailand, then you could become one of her employees.

[MobileContent]

So, a foreign Phuket condo owner is sitting in their house in the UK, Europe, America etc, and places their condo on AirBnB.

A tourists books the condo for 2 weeks, and forwards AirBnB payment.

AirBnB forward payment to the condo owner's foreign bank account, minus commission, and the foreign condo owner is "working" in Thailand and needs a work permit.

Thailand continues to embarrass itself on the world stage.

Cant see how he can control nightly rentals on Air BNB. You need to be there to welcome them , give them keys and help with tourist questions , these people are needy. I used to rent a place out in Bangkok monthly only and that was a pain the arse and I was in the country! No way he will be using Air BNB from OS. He would be looking for minimum 1 year rental and an agent to manage busted air con unit or fridge etc

Easy solved. I have rented so many time a condo or studio in Bangkok, Phuket and recently in Pattaya and I have never ever met once a foreigner who gave me the key but most of the time it was a friendly maid who arranged for everything.

In addition I have stayed 28 years in Thailand and never had a problem in renting a place and I always even got my deposit back. The language is a key factor of course.

[MobileContent]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others?That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

Or they simply allow there wifes to buy them problem solved and no not your money gift you give your wife which I belive is allowed.

Your 'Wife' will need to prove the money came from her own right and not 'Gifted' from outside of Thailand.

Not really. If it is a condo you can give it as a present to your wife. Just done it last week with one of my studio's on Sathorn.

[NamKangMan]

This is pretty simple, No daily rental unless you are a hotel, you cant be a hotel without a work permit.

Monthly rental, work permit not required. If it is handled by an Agent, you are not actually working.

Can someone produce a Thai gov document stating a work permit is required for monthly rental.?????

The only thing produced so far is the minutes from someones condo meeting.

"Can someone produce a Thai gov document stating a work permit is required for monthly rental.?????" - they are drafting the legislation now. Should be law by next week.

Yes, that's how quick things can change here.

[micmichd]

So, a foreign Phuket condo owner is sitting in their house in the UK, Europe, America etc, and places their condo on AirBnB.

A tourists books the condo for 2 weeks, and forwards AirBnB payment.

AirBnB forward payment to the condo owner's foreign bank account, minus commission, and the foreign condo owner is "working" in Thailand and needs a work permit.

Thailand continues to embarrass itself on the world stage.

Cant see how he can control nightly rentals on Air BNB. You need to be there to welcome them , give them keys and help with tourist questions , these people are needy. I used to rent a place out in Bangkok monthly only and that was a pain the arse and I was in the country! No way he will be using Air BNB from OS. He would be looking for minimum 1 year rental and an agent to manage busted air con unit or fridge etc

Easy solved. I have rented so many time a condo or studio in Bangkok, Phuket and recently in Pattaya and I have never ever met once a foreigner who gave me the key but most of the time it was a friendly maid who arranged for everything.

In addition I have stayed 28 years in Thailand and never had a problem in renting a place and I always even got my deposit back. The language is a key factor of course.

Yes, friendliness and knowledge of Thai language are important keys. Remember, as long as you don't have the Thai nationality, you will always be a customer and a guest. But Thais are friendly people.

[beautifulthailand99]

Can see a lot of embittered old farangs googling away targets and snitching to officials. Lots of room for tea money here.

[DrDave]

I see admin has removed the entire post, I respect the rules but wish they had just cropped the Bangkok Post link and quote there was other info there.

Here is the same info from another source - http://www.thephuketnews.com/airbnb-draws-scrutiny-as-hotels-seek-fairness-56455.php

The final paragraph of the letter in the OP does not change this violation, assuming Mr Techaruvichit is correct.

Two rules here can be construed from the disparate sources:

1 - A Hotel Licence is required for ANY sub 30 day let - regardless of the nationality of the lessor.

2 - Foreign lessors require a WP.

So logically:

1 - A foreigner with a WP and no hotel licence can let only for > 30 days

2 - A foreigner with a WP and a hotel licence can let for any period of time

3 - A foreigner with no WP cannot let whatsoever.

And... don't forget one other important point voiced by the Vice Governor and Land Department Acting Chief in another thread:

"Buildings that are registered as condominiums cannot operate as a hotel".

So, I would draw the conclusion that a hotel license cannot be obtained for units in a registered condominium.

[Deepinthailand]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others?That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

Or they simply allow there wifes to buy them problem solved and no not your money gift you give your wife which I belive is allowed.

Your 'Wife' will need to prove the money came from her own right and not 'Gifted' from outside of Thailand.

Not gifted from outside Thailand she has a legitimate buisness funds are from there.

[Ronuk]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others?That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

Or they simply allow there wifes to buy them problem solved and no not your money gift you give your wife which I belive is allowed.

Your 'Wife' will need to prove the money came from her own right and not 'Gifted' from outside of Thailand.

Not really. If it is a condo you can give it as a present to your wife. Just done it last week with one of my studio's on Sathorn.

I was referring to the previous poster who suggested giving the money to his wife to then purchase the condo to rent out. Whether or not 'Gifting' your wife a previously bought Condo is legally binding, I wouldn't know. If it has been in your possession for a while, I would see as being OK (But I have no idea regarding the law) giving your wife money to then purchase the condo with Foreign earned income as an investment I think would cause an inquiry if it came to light.

[newnative]

I would add to Peterw42's post that a condo can't be a hotel room if it's already registered as a condo with the Land Office. As for condo owners walking away from their investments, I doubt much of that will happen. The beauty of Thai condos is the low yearly maintenance fees. The majority of the condos bought as rentals are probably small 1 bedrooms of around 30 to 50sqm so the yearly fees are going to be around 400 to 800 dollars, some more, some less depending on the sqm fee. So, less than $100 a month in a lot of cases. Not a great deal to pay to hold on to your investment and, hey, you'll always have a roof over your head.

[bkkcanuck8]

This is pretty simple, No daily rental unless you are a hotel, you cant be a hotel without a work permit.

Monthly rental, work permit not required. If it is handled by an Agent, you are not actually working.

Can someone produce a Thai gov document stating a work permit is required for monthly rental.?????

The only thing produced so far is the minutes from someones condo meeting.

"Can someone produce a Thai gov document stating a work permit is required for monthly rental.?????" - they are drafting the legislation now. Should be law by next week.

Yes, that's how quick things can change here.

The laws regarding to labour cover pretty well everything regardless of receiving income or not... which leaves it to the officials on how it is enforced (not unusual for any country). The enforcement has generally focused on if there is income from it and/or if there is some local presence needed. They have generally said that since income generated is from work outside Thailand and no presence (i.e. exporting) needed they will not enforce the need for a WP. The laws already exist...

The question for authorities (common sense) enforcement would be are you doing work that a Thai can do inside Thailand. The answer is obviously yes.

Are you operating a business? If you own multiple units, or engaging with tenants without a management company... the answer is obviously yes.

The big question is what they will enforce.

[blackcab]

The question is: will non Thai get a work permit for letting a condo? I think jobs that Thai can do are not allowed for foreigners anyway

Sure. I have one.

[SOTIRIOS]

...what a load of crock...the owners pay their taxes regardless....

...but their investments are now next to useless....

..this is beyond abusive....

..wonder what percentage they expect to simply walk away and lose their 'investment'...

...or just keep it empty and lose money...

...this abuse of foreigners is really going too far it seems...

[gandalf12]

Surely if it is registered as a hotel there should be a restaurant available? I have never been to a hotel that didnt have one. The idea of a WP is obvious, you are in business if you are renting a property.

Being in business means you are working hence the WP. Yes some people do buy condo's to rent and yes this will affect them but it makes sense. I used to have a couple of condo's but would never think of renting them out, they were for me when I was in Thailand.

You can't be selective if there is a law despite how much it may hurt. The law is the law. Thai's don't need a WP as they don't need one for a job same as in our home countries.

[impulse]

Not a great deal to pay to hold on to your investment and, hey, you'll always have a roof over your head.

True. As long as you're not one of tens of thousands who don't qualify for a long term stay any more, now that a bunch of the loopholes have been slammed shut...

[mcfish]

...what a load of crock...the owners pay their taxes regardless....

...but their investments are now next to useless....

..this is beyond abusive....

..wonder what percentage they expect to simply walk away and lose their 'investment'...

...or just keep it empty and lose money...

...this abuse of foreigners is really going too far it seems...

What is useless? If your rent out nightly or weekly then you switch to monthly or yearly There is nothing to stop them doing that.

Bangkok will sink into the sea and hookers will start paying tax before they enforce work permits for every rental in Thailand..

[cheapcanuck]

If hotels stopped gouging tourist then there would be no need for online rental sites like airbnb.

[condobrit001]

I cannot understand why you are all getting so excited. In just about every country in the world you have to pay tax on the property you rent out, so why does everyone expect a free ride in Thailand?

I pay both state and federal tax on my condo in Florida, and similarly on my UK property. Getting a work permit enables Thai authorities to tax foreigners on their income as they must make tax returns.

Shortly the legislation will be in place to give property investors work permits and the Thai govt. can start to collect this income stream for much needed infrastructure projects.

Not sure if dual taxation agreements are in place with all the countries, so the American owners of rental condos may well be taxed twice, as I am sure they are declaring their Thai income to uncle Sam already.

[bkkcanuck8]

...what a load of crock...the owners pay their taxes regardless....

So you file a Personal Income Tax form stating the income you received from renting?

Or do you have a Corporation? (which if the purpose of the corporation is to buy property - is problematic).

[Maggusoil]

So, a foreign Phuket condo owner is sitting in their house in the UK, Europe, America etc, and places their condo on AirBnB.

A tourists books the condo for 2 weeks, and forwards AirBnB payment.

AirBnB forward payment to the condo owner's foreign bank account, minus commission, and the foreign condo owner is "working" in Thailand and needs a work permit.

Phuket continues to embarrass itself on the world stage.

I guess it means that you're working "or" doing business of some sort on their patch. So they're patching up the leaks. Normal stuff that I can see.

Quite normal. The way they're doing it maybe a little ham fisted but I can understand them trying to get some of the action.

[cyberfarang]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others? That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

Which means they are running a business, so why shouldn`t they pay tax because those rents are income, that also means they are working as landlords and require work permits.

[Brer Fox]

Confiscation if the owner disobeys. That's the worst case scenario. Everything is possible in the current climate...

People, especially property owners, should always keep in mind the convenient multiple purpose Section 44.

[aneliane]

Is this real?

April is in 6 months.

How in the world is renting a work?

[kinmaew]

No surprise I am confused why some persist in doing business here. RENT and keep your lovely money and property in your home country where you can most likely structure it as tax free rent and no hassles. I would never invest in bricks and mortar in Thailand, I cant own the land and they have no construction standards and its only a matter of time before some Somchai is knocking on your door asking for money. Who can be bothered with that lads, enjoy a few beers and the gals and live peace of mind with your money safe at home.

[Peterw42]

"There is no clampdown enforcement" of a WP requirement for long term rentals.

The sky is not falling !!!

If you read the original post and letter.

No information came from the gov about WP.

The letter writer asked a "by the way" question of a lawyer.

Strict letter of the law WP probably required. It has never been enforced and there is nothing to say it will be enforced.

short term rentals, is what is being enforced.

[swerver]

Can anyone confirm or deny the statement that units bought under the foreign quota (I'm assuming that's the 49%?) can only be purchased for personal dwelling? And does that mean the personal dwelling of the owner only- i.e., not for rent to others? That would put quite a wet blanket on some of my foreign coworkers who own multiple condos for rental income...

As understand the foreigner 49% ownership in condo complex means the foreigner can own one (1) condo for personal residence. NOT a multiple of condos in the same condo complex or scattered over several condo complexes and to be used as rental units. Realistically this puts the owner in a business position. When a person foreigner or local is involved in business for a started there is a business license required and from there on there are several other Thai Gov. requirements in connection with operating a business.

It is the same song and dance with foreigners coming to Thailand who have problems with the laws, rules and regulations in their own country so they decided to pack up and move to Thailand having been a tourist in Thailand it looks like everybody just makes its own rules, laws and regulation, first impression the chaotic traffic. So i.e. they decide to buy a few condos for rental income. As Thai Gov. becomes more-and-more computerized and interconnected the computer system starts to send up Red Flags indicating things are not as they must be. It is not a case of Thais getting smarter, it is a case of computers doing what they are designed for to do, keep everything on the straight and narrow. Maybe in the begin Thais looking at the Monitor don't know what to do with the info, but eventually among themselves they figure out what is required of them to do, and then it appears in TVF and other Independent News outlets.

If it is the Hotel owners that are complaining, you cannot blame them, as their business name implies they are in the business to put up people for the night or more nights as required. To operate a Hotel at breakeven it must maintain an occupancy rate of about 60% any above that they are starting to make a profit on their investment.

Okay Posters start your complaining after all that is why you are in Thailand, complaining.

LOL in LOS.

[slipperylobster]

Big deal.

Sounds much smarter to buy a condo in a "farang-friendly" country, and rent it out. Use that income to rent yourself a place here in Thailand. Never buy here...is still what I am thinking. Must be some good investments, in other parts of the world....where they protect people with income who want to retire.

Things change with the wind. What they do this year, might not be the same next year. I thought condo ownership might be viable....but it sounds like a crackdown.

I never know if I can renew my retirement extension..from year to year....with certainty. If you become disqualified...and own a condo...basically you are forced to sell it.