ex taking daughter back to thailand WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

[Damsurin]

my girlfriend and i are in the uk now , she is here on a 6 month visa , we have a 2 year old daughter , i am the biological father and i am on the birth certificate , with the baby having my surname 

the thai lady and me have split up while she as been here in the uk , she is staying with 3 thai women not far from my home with our daughter the 3 thai women came here with husbands but have since split up !! my ex came here on a 6 month visa , with a return ticket in nov , our 2 year old daughter came on a single ticket as she was going to stop here in the uk with me for a better life than up in the jungle !

ive just found out today that she and the 3 thais have changed the ticket and she is going back middle of aug 2016 

ive been googling all day ,,, as anyone here had same problem ? im going to see solicitor tomorrow to try put a stop on the ex taking our baby out of the uk someone on google said you can block her leaving the country if your the biological father    HELP PLEASE 

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by Damsurin

[gk10002000]

Not an uncommon situation.  Ex wives or girlfriends asserting possession of their children.  I can't comment on the specifics of what the UK authorities can do to help you or what they normally do as far as Mother or Father having precedence.    But there have been similar posts here on Thai Visa in the past

[Damsurin]

thanks for reply   lawyer and police this morning here in the uk 

[bobrussell]

Both parents generally have automatic parental responsibility, easier to show if you are named on the birth certificate. You are making the right choice by involving a solicitor and Police at this stage.

Generally you would be expected to apply for an Emergency Residence Order. In effect the courts will make it illegal to take the child outside the country. If the court is in England or Wales it will be illegal to take the child into Scotland as they have a different legal system  

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265613/Int_Child_Abduction_1113_AW.pdf.

 

The order gives everyone time to take stock of their position. It is likely that your girlfriend will be able to apply to remain in the UK while things are sorted out. The immigration authorities may take a bit of a dim view of someone coming over on a visit visa and creating this situation but it enters the realms of the family court to sort out.

 

 

[manfredtillmann]

if your daughter has dual citizenship (uk / thai) my honest opinion is that you can't do anything. she can leave on her thai passport. and that's it.

been there, done that (aus / ger). it cost me a lot and got me nothing but grieve. move on. please.

[IMA_FARANG]

In thailand simply being listed on a birth certificate as the father .does not automatically make you thre legal father.

The fact that you are not married to your girlfriend may cause you problems here in Thailand.

It qould be better if you coild show you were legally married to your wife at the time your child eas born.

This is not the U.K.  and the rules there do not apply here.

God luck but your assymption she will automatically be better of in the U.K. than here "[n the Jungle" will ot go over well here in Thailand

[bobrussell]

The problem is not in Thailand. The child in in the UK at the moment. It will be UK law that applies at this stage.

If the OP has concerns about the child returning to Thailand against his wishes, the first step has to be to stop travel. Proof of being one of the parents is something the courts may require.

Anybody named on the birth certificate in the UK will be assumed to have parental responsibility until such time as a court decides he or she does not.

[cornishcarlos]

2 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

In thailand simply being listed on a birth certificate as the father .does not automatically make you thre legal father.

The fact that you are not married to your girlfriend may cause you problems here in Thailand.

It qould be better if you coild show you were legally married to your wife at the time your child eas born.

This is not the U.K.  and the rules there do not apply here.

God luck but your assymption she will automatically be better of in the U.K. than here "[n the Jungle" will ot go over well here in Thailand

 

Reading is not your strong point, obviously... !!

The OP is in the U.K, as are his girlfriend and their daughter.

 

OP, please let us know what the police and solicitor have to say on the matter..

[bobrussell]

ThaiVisa is not the place to get reliable relationship guidance!

It is a very good place to get some sound visa advice and a bit of support in this sort of situation.

Absolutely not a substitute for legal advice from your solicitor and it is possible you may be advised to say little more to avoid aggravating an already difficult situation!

[HooHaa]

4 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

In thailand simply being listed on a birth certificate as the father .does not automatically make you thre legal father.

The fact that you are not married to your girlfriend may cause you problems here in Thailand.

It qould be better if you coild show you were legally married to your wife at the time your child eas born.

This is not the U.K.  and the rules there do not apply here.

God luck but your assymption she will automatically be better of in the U.K. than here "[n the Jungle" will ot go over well here in Thailand

 

 

Umm, it is the UK. 

 

 

[Hedghog]

In the UK,custody generally goes to the mother.

If the child has been residing in Thailand since birth,I would suspect mother and child will be allowed to return home.

Having the police involved won't go in the OPs favour.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Hedghog
edit typo

[Damsurin]

thanks for all your advice ,,, i went to see lawyer yesterday morning and was told it was going to cost at least £3000 pounds to put a stop n her taking the baby out of the uk ,, he wanted £1000 on account yesterday ! just to start the ball rolling ,, he said it would cost several thousand pounds at least ??  crazy  i only want best for my baby .. i rang the mother yesterday , she was alone and talked differantly to when the other thai women are there .. i offered her money to keep the baby here , she said NO i offered £5000 pounds as a starter she still said NO ,, she said the baby isnt going to the jungle which i find hard to believe ?? she and the father of her first baby have never takien care of the 10 year old ,, in fact i sent money to the grand parents every month for a child which isnty mine . ive thought long and hard about this and i am going to put money in my babys uk bank every month and hen shes 18 she will have a nice nest egg 

im not supporting the lazy whisky drinking vermin up in the jungle while i work hard here in the uk

ill leave the ball in the exs corner and lets see what happens when the family start putting pressure on the ex to find money for 2 kids ?

ive took care of ex for 4 years  now its her turn !!

AGAIN THANKS ALL ill keep you posted 

[harrry]

She will apply to the court for child support for your baby and the UK court will order you to send it at UK rates.

[harrry]

You do not need a lawyer in the family court to put the order in place.

[Damsurin]

6 minutes ago, harrry said:

She will apply to the court for child support for your baby and the UK court will order you to send it at UK rates.

will she have time to apply to court for this she goes back in 12 days 

[harrry]

There are organisations here that will apply in the UK court and she will get a lawyer as it is for the child.

If you are serious go to your local court and apply for an urgent order.  They have people to do that there ////there is no need for a lawyer.  You will get the paper and then get the departure blocked.

[bobrussell]

If in doubt you can contact the charity Reunite. http://www.reunite.org/

They will offer free advice.

I agree that there is little need for a solicitor in the early stages

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/265613/Int_Child_Abduction_1113_AW.pdf

If you have real concerns for the welfare of the child or that the child may be taken abroad within the next 48 hours then the Police can request a Port Alert that may block travelling.

The case will be dealt with via the Family Court and the system tends to be fairly sympathetic to those without legal representation.

[scorecard]

20 hours ago, Hedghog said:

In the UK,custody generally goes to the mother.

If the child has been residing in Thailand since birth,I would suspect mother and child will be allowed to return home.

Having the police involved won't go in the OPs favour.

 

 

 

Is your comment based solidly on on law specific, or based on an unsubstantiated opinion?

[bobrussell]

A lot of the comments here are unsubstantiated opinion!

 

The decision will be made by the Family Court. It may be they will decide for the child to remain with the mother and she may chose to return to Thailand. She may decide to apply for a visa as a parent exercising access rights. This would allow her to live in the UK.

 

The Police will only act in the best interests of the child so will not make any difference to the OP's position.

 

Of course looking at it from the mothers point of view, she was encouraged to come to the UK on a visit (with the child) and is now potentially being prevented from returning home!  There are two sides to every story!

 

These are messy situations and this is why the courts get involved. They will attempt to act in the best interests of everyone but the child's interests will be the priority.

 

The courts do not pre-judge whether a child should live with the mother or father. This is based on the evidence provided by both parties.

Edited August 9, 2016 by bobrussell

[KhunBENQ]

10 minutes ago, bobrussell said:

Of course looking at it from the mothers point of view, she was encouraged to come to the UK on a visit (with the child) and is now potentially being prevented from returning home!  There are two sides to every story!

So true, absolutely agree.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[rasg]

Where does it say that she was encouraged to come to the UK? She probably wanted to come here in the beginning.

 

My only real observation is that the GF came here in November on a six month visa and she has already overstayed.

 

[MobileContent]

I am not an expert of course but no of the following:

 

1) A friend of mine fathered a child with a Thai woman and his name is on the birth certificate. He sponsored her visa to come on a tourist visa (Schengen) to Germany. The child was around 4 years.

 

2) After a few month his Thai GF was bored and told the German BF and father of the child that she wanted to return with their child but the parents of the BF told him to get possession of the child.

 

3) He went to the Jugendamt which looks after the children in Germany and they told him a) Your Child has no German citizenship and the birth certificate wasn't even officially translated into German plus the child wasn't even registered officially in the German birth register.

 

Lawyers kept telling him they can do work for him for a good fee of course and he paid a lot of money but on the end his Thai GF just took his child back to Thailand and he had no contact to them for the past 6 years.

[MobileContent]

5 hours ago, Damsurin said:

thanks for all your advice ,,, i went to see lawyer yesterday morning and was told it was going to cost at least £3000 pounds to put a stop n her taking the baby out of the uk ,, he wanted £1000 on account yesterday ! just to start the ball rolling ,, he said it would cost several thousand pounds at least ??  crazy  i only want best for my baby .. i rang the mother yesterday , she was alone and talked differantly to when the other thai women are there .. i offered her money to keep the baby here , she said NO i offered £5000 pounds as a starter she still said NO ,, she said the baby isnt going to the jungle which i find hard to believe ?? she and the father of her first baby have never takien care of the 10 year old ,, in fact i sent money to the grand parents every month for a child which isnty mine . ive thought long and hard about this and i am going to put money in my babys uk bank every month and hen shes 18 she will have a nice nest egg 

im not supporting the lazy whisky drinking vermin up in the jungle while i work hard here in the uk

ill leave the ball in the exs corner and lets see what happens when the family start putting pressure on the ex to find money for 2 kids ?

ive took care of ex for 4 years  now its her turn !!

AGAIN THANKS ALL ill keep you posted 

 

Sorry to hear about your situation.

 

My lady comes out of the jungle too but I have known it before when I got involved with her and we have a boy that is almost 4 year old, this December.

 

I once had a fight with her as I disagreed how our boy got raised and she told me you ca take the house from me, the cars, a couple of bikes and stop paying me any money but you will never take our boy from me and we talk about 4-5 million Baht.

 

Not every woman that comes from the sticks or Nakon Nowhere can be bought this way.

 

The issue is you invited your GF and child to come to the UK for a holiday trip I guess and things didn't worked out.

 

Let them go back to Thailand and try to visit them 2-3 times a year to work things out.

 

 

[Hedghog]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Is your comment based solidly on on law specific, or based on an unsubstantiated opinion?

Statistics.

 

 

[bobrussell]

It is more likely that the mother will get custody because she is more likely to have been the primary carer before separation of parents. It is nothing to do with the law and is not automatic. 

A mother automatically gets parental responsibility by being the mother. A father may not.

When I divorced (many years ago) we had joint custody of the children. I remained in the family home so there was continuity for them. It may be the law is skewed towards the resident parent.

In law neither parent has an automatic right to custody, it often comes down to practicalities.

 

I also accept the OP states that the original plan was for the child to remain in the UK!

[sumrit]

You say you are the biological father and are named on the birth certificate. Is that a just on a Thai birth certificate? Have you had your daughter registered with the British authorities? Does she also have a UK passport or just a Thai one? The answers could determine whether your ex is attempting to remove a British citizen from the UK. If your daughter only has Thai citizenship you would first have to prove to the courts that she is also entitled to British citizenship before any decision can be made and that's where to legal expenses could start to rocket in the UK courts.

[billd766]

Perhaps if and when this gets to the family court they will ask you if you can support and provide for the child on your own if the mother returns to Thailand. Will you be capable of doing that? Remembering that the child is only 2 years old it will require a large amount of daily care that a mother normally provides.

Does your child speak English for example. Do you work from home 24/7? If not who will look after the child when you are not available due to work? Can you afford to pay for this as child care is not cheap. Will your UK family help out as sort of surrogate parents as it were?

 

If it comes off you will have to start applying for child benefits and stuff like that and those agencies will be asking questions as well.

 

Sumrit in post #26 asks if the child has a UK birth certificate and is registered at the UK embassy in Bangkok. Does the child have a UK passport?

 

I am not decrying your efforts, but trying to point out some of the difficulties that you may find on the way. If it does get to the family courts these will be some of the questions that will be asked and you will need to have the answers on the spot.

[bobrussell]

The Family Court will look at all the facts and circumstances with a view to ensuring the best interests of the child are covered. Child benefit agency's do not ask about the circumstances, it is not their business. All they do is check whether a claim is valid.

 

Social services in some form or other may be involved at the court level but only if there are welfare concerns.

 

We don't know the OP's situation so judgements are pretty pointless. The courts try to be non-combative and aim to protect the child. Legal representation may well be helpful but is not essential. Many going through Family Court cannot get legal aid.

 

A British passport is not important, British citizen eligibility is!

Edited August 12, 2016 by bobrussell

[manfredtillmann]

my #2:

i know you just want to read positive and supporting stuff, but...

you have not stated if your daughter has thai citizen ship i.e. a thai passport.

if she has, no matter dual citizen ship or not, there is NOTHING you - or the authorities - can do to prevent her thai mother taking her out of gb. and everyone else telling you different is just milking you for your money.

has anyone replied to you here who has been through this crap? i have. let it go. even if you succeed - you won't- in years to come this will all back fire on you.

 

[bobrussell]

Absolutely incorrect! The authorities are perfectly entitled to prevent a child being taken out of the country. This happened with my niece.

The Police have short term powers if it is considered imminent. The Family Court may issue a residence order which will generally stipulate where the child is to live and what rights each parent has.

If you had bothered to check any of the links you would know who is talking crap!

 

There is no guarantee what the outcome of the case will be but there are plenty who have been through 'this crap'.

 

Could it be that you were badly advised?

Edited August 12, 2016 by bobrussell