Pound drops to lowest level since 1985

[imaderbyfan]

In answer to your last question.
Dont hold your breath......[emoji32]

[Laughing Gravy]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Somebody blamed the EU for making the UK a more services than manufacturing oriented economy. Not true. You can blame Thatcherite monetarism, the Big Bang and globalisation for that! 

 

It it makes me laugh, no grimace, to hear the conservatives calling for a more balanced economy ?

Thatcher was another cog in the wheel of the EU and was still party to its unison of treaty's that help dwindle certain industries of the UK. I blame her, as much as I blame Blair.

 

[rockingrobin]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Thatcher was another cog in the wheel of the EU and was still party to its unison of treaty's that help dwindle certain industries of the UK. I blame her, as much as I blame Blair.

 

So its the British electorates fault 

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Thatcher was another cog in the wheel of the EU and was still party to its unison of treaty's that help dwindle certain industries of the UK. I blame her, as much as I blame Blair.

 

 

Thatcher was eurosceptic.

 

It was her monetarist policies which stuffed manufacturing which collapsed from 25% to 10% of GDP.

[Laughing Gravy]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Thatcher was eurosceptic.

 

It was her monetarist policies which stuffed manufacturing which collapsed from 25% to 10% of GDP.

Eurosceptic or not she still allowed the EU to claim even more power off the UK. She often gave an anti EU speech but did little to prevent the EU from massing into todays bureaucratic entity. She could have always got the UK out of the EU, especially as she was prime minister for 11 years.

Corbyn apparently is a Eurosceptic but look what he is doing.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

OK Grouse please enlighten me. So brexit isn't going to happen, you are inferring? Do you know something that others don't? Maybe more than Theresa May? I was a slight skeptic once the referendum result was announced but after the last few weeks and the Tory party conference, I think she made it as clear as anyone can. Brexit means Brexit.

Irrespective of what anyone says, including the PM, the outcome is not yet cast in stone.

TM is trying to circumvent the constitution and it is yet to be decided if she has that authority. If the courts rule in her favour then she will have free reign to invoke Article 50 as she sees fit.

If however the courts rule that matter is outside her prerogative and must be passed by parliament then another door opens. There is every possibility that parliament would vote to uphold the referendum result and again she can invoke Article 50 as and when.

If however parliament were to vote the other way then it would be a game changer and back where we started. Well not quite, it would be extremely difficult to overcome the animosity that this whole farce has created.

[Laughing Gravy]

13 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Irrespective of what anyone says, including the PM, the outcome is not yet cast in stone.

TM is trying to circumvent the constitution and it is yet to be decided if she has that authority. If the courts rule in her favour then she will have free reign to invoke Article 50 as she sees fit.

If however the courts rule that matter is outside her prerogative and must be passed by parliament then another door opens. There is every possibility that parliament would vote to uphold the referendum result and again she can invoke Article 50 as and when.

If however parliament were to vote the other way then it would be a game changer and back where we started. Well not quite, it would be extremely difficult to overcome the animosity that this whole farce has created.

I don't doubt the remainers will do everything in their power to keep the UK in the corrupt EU. This referendum has created divides but the saddest thing for me, is that the people who are screaming for democracy are not allowing for it to happen. The people voted leave. That is it, so let it happen.

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I don't doubt the remainers will do everything in their power to keep the UK in the corrupt EU. This referendum has created divides but the saddest thing for me, is that the people who are screaming for democracy are not allowing for it to happen. The people voted leave. That is it, so let it happen.

 

If there was an overwhelming majority in favour of it, and if we were subsequently drowning in milk and honey then we would most likely not be having this discussion. But all we have seen since literally minutes the result was announced is just how tawdry and deceitful the campaigns for Brexit was. We have further seen a total collapse of leadership and direction from Westminster and a ramping up of anti-UK feeling across the EU, not to mention the disastrous financial realities of the mess created.

 

Grouse may be falling back on his more earthy Yorkshire roots when describing a significant proportion of the Brexiters, but there is no doubt about it - a large part of the responsibility for this disaster lies with people who failed to fully understand the true implication of what they were voting on, and simply swallowed the barefaced lies of opportunistic snake oil salesmen like Farage, Johnson et al.

[sandyf]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I don't doubt the remainers will do everything in their power to keep the UK in the corrupt EU. This referendum has created divides but the saddest thing for me, is that the people who are screaming for democracy are not allowing for it to happen. The people voted leave. That is it, so let it happen.

Democracy is a bit like beauty, in the eye of the beholder. The UK has a parliamentary democracy that has evolved over hundreds of years, without referendums, there has only ever been 3.

If the view is that the country should be ruled by referendum then there needs to be a change to the constitution first.

Why in this case should the established democratic process be thrown out the window.

 

[yogi100]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Now that's a reasonable viewpoint.

 

There are other factors that you fail to mention: globalisation and automation. I don't think we can put the globalisation genie back in the lamp but certainly we should protect ourselves against dumping. Automation is going to makes things worse for low skilled workers. I don't know the answers to that except education and training. 

 

80% of our economy is services. Are there unskilled service jobs? Seems unlikely....

 

We do have the "living wage" to protect against undercutting of labour. Is it too low? Unenforced? 

 

Is is it not true that the vast majority of EU migrants are gainfully employed in jobs where they pay taxes?

 

For me, there are too many Muslims from third world countries but I guess that's my personal peccadillo.

 

Finally, and easing myself gently out of my entrenched position, we should have negotiated changes to the free movement requirements. May be the RATE of movement could be discussed? Or the need to have a job offer BEFORE arriving? 

 

However, IMHO, if you went to school and learnt a skill or a profession you will not have a problem. The UK desperately needs engineers for a start. We should do much more to help people get trained up. Pay people properly to do it ?

 

One more thing, the balance between labour and capital in the U.K. now seems wrong. I don't think the Conservatives or UKIP will help with that. Maybe we have an economist on here who could comment?

 

 

Is is it not true that the vast majority of EU migrants are gainfully employed in jobs where they pay taxes?

 

No it's not true. Most of them are in low paying jobs in which they pay little or no tax and those not working cash in hand often qualify for tax credits so they are not putting into the coffers. They are just providing cheap labour which benefits business owners.

 

The people whose jobs they've taken have to live on benefits at tremendous cost to the taxpayer. A huge proportion of our gross national product goes on the benefit system. Money that could be better used elsewhere.

 

So businessmen are being subsidised indirectly by the taxpayer to the detriment of the nation.

 

The Tories condone this state of affairs as it suits their wealthy chums who will show their appreciation at the ballot box and with donations to party funds.

 

Labour condones this state of affairs as it suits their immigrant chums who they hope will show their appreciation at the ballot box.

[rockingrobin]

30 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

 

Is is it not true that the vast majority of EU migrants are gainfully employed in jobs where they pay taxes?

 

No it's not true. Most of them are in low paying jobs in which they pay little or no tax and those not working cash in hand often qualify for tax credits so they are not putting into the coffers. They are just providing cheap labour which benefits business owners.

 

The people whose jobs they've taken have to live on benefits at tremendous cost to the taxpayer. A huge proportion of our gross national product goes on the benefit system. Money that could be better used elsewhere.

 

So businessmen are being subsidised indirectly by the taxpayer to the detriment of the nation.

 

The Tories condone this state of affairs as it suits their wealthy chums who will show their appreciation at the ballot box and with donations to party funds.

 

Labour condones this state of affairs as it suits their immigrant chums who they hope will show their appreciation at the ballot box.

To suggest that immigrants are taking jobs from British nationals is lump of labour fallacy. 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If there was an overwhelming majority in favour of it, and if we were subsequently drowning in milk and honey then we would most likely not be having this discussion. But all we have seen since literally minutes the result was announced is just how tawdry and deceitful the campaigns for Brexit was. We have further seen a total collapse of leadership and direction from Westminster and a ramping up of anti-UK feeling across the EU, not to mention the disastrous financial realities of the mess created.

 

Grouse may be falling back on his more earthy Yorkshire roots when describing a significant proportion of the Brexiters, but there is no doubt about it - a large part of the responsibility for this disaster lies with people who failed to fully understand the true implication of what they were voting on, and simply swallowed the barefaced lies of opportunistic snake oil salesmen like Farage, Johnson et al.

I think you mistakenly assume people are stupid or illiterate. They knew exactly what it was about. They disagree with your point, please don't assume they didn't know the implications. people wanted to take back control and wanted to put British people first, something I fully agree with.  

[rockingrobin]

4 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think you mistakenly assume people are stupid or illiterate. They knew exactly what it was about. They disagree with your point, please don't assume they didn't know the implications. people wanted to take back control and wanted to put British people first, something I fully agree with.  

Along with

Oswald Mosley

National Front

BNP

Ukip

British jobs for British people

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Only the numpties are smiling and running around bumping into each other ?

 

For winning an Olympic Gold Medal in the Medley Sterling Backstroke.

[yogi100]

37 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Along with

Oswald Mosley

National Front

BNP

Ukip

British jobs for British people

 

What about Enoch Powell.

[RuamRudy]

44 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think you mistakenly assume people are stupid or illiterate. They knew exactly what it was about. They disagree with your point, please don't assume they didn't know the implications. people wanted to take back control and wanted to put British people first, something I fully agree with.  

 

 

Brexit research suggests 1.2 million Leave voters regret their choice in reversal that could change result

[RuamRudy]

41 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Along with

Oswald Mosley

National Front

BNP

Ukip

British jobs for British people

 

[yogi100]

51 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

To suggest that immigrants are taking jobs from British nationals is lump of labour fallacy. 

 

Could you expand on your expression 'lump of labour fallacy'. Are you referring to the political party or the word being used in the form of a noun or a verb

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Desperation going back to 1934 methinks RR?

[rockingrobin]

7 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Could you expand on your expression 'lump of labour fallacy'. Are you referring to the political party or the word being used in the form of a noun or a verb

It is not a zero sum game, to equate a  migrant is taking a  job from a british national assumes  that there is a fixed number of jobs

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

 

 

Is is it not true that the vast majority of EU migrants are gainfully employed in jobs where they pay taxes?

 

No it's not true. Most of them are in low paying jobs in which they pay little or no tax and those not working cash in hand often qualify for tax credits so they are not putting into the coffers. They are just providing cheap labour which benefits business owners.

 

The people whose jobs they've taken have to live on benefits at tremendous cost to the taxpayer. A huge proportion of our gross national product goes on the benefit system. Money that could be better used elsewhere.

 

So businessmen are being subsidised indirectly by the taxpayer to the detriment of the nation.

 

The Tories condone this state of affairs as it suits their wealthy chums who will show their appreciation at the ballot box and with donations to party funds.

 

Labour condones this state of affairs as it suits their immigrant chums who they hope will show their appreciation at the ballot box.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0deacb52-178b-11e6-9d98-00386a18e39d

 

I'm afraid the FT disagrees with you.....

[vogie]

1 minute ago, yogi100 said:

 

You're very fond of calling people 'stupid' aren't you.

 

By the way the correct way of phrasing the accusation is 'you're more stupid'.

 

Get it right or you just make yourself look the rude ignorant pig that you probably are.

 

I'm afraid you will have to accept the insults, it's the way educated people talk to us plebs.

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

Along with

Oswald Mosley

National Front

BNP

Ukip

British jobs for British people

 

29 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

What about Enoch Powell.

The same Enoch Powell that recruited for the NHS  nurses  from the Caribbean so he could justify not giving nurses  a pay rise 

Edited October 10, 2016 by rockingrobin

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, vogie said:

Desperation going back to 1934 methinks RR?

 

The Daily Mail never changes its spots.

[yogi100]

5 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

 

The same Enoch Powell that recruited for the NHS  nurses  from the Caribbean so he could justify not giving nurses  a pay rise 

 

That's the one!

What Enoch Powell did you think I meant.

[The Dark Lord]

On 04/10/2016 at 6:23 PM, Grouse said:

 

I was being ironic, but it dropped from 1.48 to 1.28 on the night of the referendum. 

 

The point is, this is all totally unnecessary.

 

BTW, I forecast some nasty shock to the Thai economy anytime.

I hope you are right on that....

[yogi100]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

If there was an overwhelming majority in favour of it, and if we were subsequently drowning in milk and honey then we would most likely not be having this discussion. But all we have seen since literally minutes the result was announced is just how tawdry and deceitful the campaigns for Brexit was. We have further seen a total collapse of leadership and direction from Westminster and a ramping up of anti-UK feeling across the EU, not to mention the disastrous financial realities of the mess created.

 

Grouse may be falling back on his more earthy Yorkshire roots when describing a significant proportion of the Brexiters, but there is no doubt about it - a large part of the responsibility for this disaster lies with people who failed to fully understand the true implication of what they were voting on, and simply swallowed the barefaced lies of opportunistic snake oil salesmen like Farage, Johnson et al.

 

Most Brexiteers voted on account of what they witnessed themselves first hand on a daily basis. The effects of mass immigration.

 

They did not need Farage to tell them what was going on much less the squawkings of Eton Toff Boy Johnson.

[Grouse]

HSBC forecast cable at 1.10 and Euro parity 

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think you mistakenly assume people are stupid or illiterate. They knew exactly what it was about. They disagree with your point, please don't assume they didn't know the implications. people wanted to take back control and wanted to put British people first, something I fully agree with.  

 

The demographics describing the average Brexiteer were conclusive, I don't mean to sound snobbish or anything other than simply describing the facts - read the Telegraph article in the search link below:

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?client=firefox-b&q=demographics+of+UK+brexit+voting+referendum+news&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjioo-GhdDPAhVBOI8KHRj1Du0QBQgZKAA&biw=1600&bih=736

 

So it's not actually a mistake or a crime r anything derogatory to describe some people as stupid and illiterate, if you think there aren't thousands of such folks in every country, look again.

 

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

The demographics describing the average Brexiteer were conclusive, I don't mean to sound snobbish or anything other than simply describing the facts - read the Telegraph article in the search link below:

 

https://www.google.co.th/search?client=firefox-b&q=demographics+of+UK+brexit+voting+referendum+news&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjioo-GhdDPAhVBOI8KHRj1Du0QBQgZKAA&biw=1600&bih=736

 

So it's not actually a mistake or a crime r anything derogatory to describe some people as stupid and illiterate, if you think there aren't thousands of such folks in every country, look again.

 

y'can always tell a Yorkshireman, but y' can't tell 'im much...