Buying an un-taxed and un-insured motorbike

[JimmyCardiff]

I've just purchased a motorbike from an expat, which had not been taxed or insured for the last three years. I was aware of this, as I was aware that I would have to pay three years back tax. This is what happened to me yesterday...

 

I purchased tax total 360 baht (incl back tax 3 years), Insurance total 360 baht (incl back insurance 3 years), transfer name to registration document 1200 baht. OK so far. At the motorbike inspection centre they told me documents would take 5 - 7 days. I asked if I could legally ride the motorbike...YES he said.

 

5 minutes later (if that), I got stopped at police check point. He asked for my driving license which I gave to him (Thai). He said tax out of date. I explained that I just purchased the motorbike, paid  taxed, and insurance etc... showed him my receipt. He gave me a ticket and told me to show my documents in 7 days. He would not return my driving licence.

 

My question is...When I produce the documents, will I have to pay a fine? There is no mention of a fine on the ticket, but does that mean there won't be one.  If there is a fine...what is it likely to be?

[transam]

Doubt it, if you don't show up in 7 days you might...They hold your license so you will show up..

[Kwasaki]

Why didn't DLT office give you your up to date road tax disc they should of, also you should have copy of the moped book and receipts of payment.

[Jack Mountain]

May i ask, did you do the transfer on your own or was the former owner with you? Just curious cuz i am looking for a 2nd hand motorbike.

 

[johng]

You don't need the former owner to go with you if you get them to sign the transfer form, power of attorney and other forms.

As an aside can anyone give an authoritative answer as to how long a vehicle can go untaxed before the blue/green book becomes invalid. I though it was 15 years but some told me its now 3 years ?

[johng]

@JimmyCardiff when you go to the police station to show your documents they will more than likely not fine you.
If they do try a bit of bartering to try get a discount if they won't budge then pay up it won't be expensive,annoying but not expensive.

[recom273]

1 hour ago, johng said:

You don't need the former owner to go with you if you get them to sign the transfer form, power of attorney and other forms.

As an aside can anyone give an authoritative answer as to how long a vehicle can go untaxed before the blue/green book becomes invalid. I though it was 15 years but some told me its now 3 years ?

Yes, it's 3 years and the bike needs to be registered. 

 

If if I was the OP I wouldn't worry - just wait for the documents and take them to the station, explain, appear sorry and confused, don't show too much money, and negotiate the fine down.

 

It helps to just go long with their BS conversations and long pauses .. They caught my wife with no license, took her to the little office, asked her where she came from, what her dad did? She replied my father died .. They asked her about her job, they asked her how she knew me, did we have kids ? Next thing they said, OK, you can go, we feel sorry for you that your dad is dead .. He died 10 years ago ??

 

just play the game.

[Jane Dough]

Back tax needs to be paid, but why pay back insurance. 

[JimmyCardiff]

Thanks for all your replies.

For Jack Mountain!

The previous owner was with me, but it was not registered in his name. It was registered to the person he bought it from, a Thai lady. I had a photo copy of all her details..eg Thai ID card, Tabien Baan and her proof of ownership.

 

I hope that helps.

 

For Kawasaki!

 

I didn't receive any of the documents at all and I don't know why they didn't give me an updated road tax disc. I was just told documents ready in 5 - 7 days. I did have a receipt as proof of payment for all back road taxes, insurance and transfer, and showed it to the police officer. He just said show your documents in 7 days.

[khunPer]

If you don't have the correct tax'n'insurance sticker on the vehicle, you'll be fined. If you can show the sticker, you can move on; however, after paying the fine. Talk from 500-baht experience...

...this year I immediately glued it on..!

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, Jane Dough said:

Back tax needs to be paid, but why pay back insurance. 

This is Thailand.

[eisfeld]

BTW not 100% sure but I don't think the police are allowed to confiscate your driving license because your bike isn't taxed. Can someone confirm or debunk this?

[Deepinthailand]

Was the bike registered in the province you went to??? Doesn't sound like it 5 to 7 days for documents sounds like waiting for new plates. 

[Generalchaos]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

BTW not 100% sure but I don't think the police are allowed to confiscate your driving license because your bike isn't taxed. Can someone confirm or debunk this?

The police can and will take your license, it costs 400 Baht to get back.

However in the OP's case he should have a piece of paper from the Transport office that he could have shown to the cops as proof of payment for the expired tax.

 

I have had two tax discs nicked in the last year, a police report gets you the letter from the transport office, which is good enough for the cops.

 

Never heard of having to pay backdated insurance?

I had a non registered XLR250, they caught me at a checkpoint, no tax no reg. just an invoice (no licence/green book either) cost the thick end of 14K to get the bike back....the local cops were going to try and sell it!

Despite paying 14K in bribes, the official receipts were something like 400 Baht for no licence, 1000 Baht for the tax / insurance etc. the other 13 K was just swallowed up in packets of Birdy Coffee and bottles of Chang!

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Generalchaos

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, Generalchaos said:

The police can and will take your license, it costs 400 Baht to get back.

 

My question was more are they actually legally allowed to do so? Not if in fact they do take it. We all know that what police do here and what they are legally allowed to are not always the same thing.

[papa al]

legally smegaly

they didn't beat, taze or shoot you.

u lucky...

sorry,

...thinking 'merca.

[Liquorice]

15 hours ago, Jane Dough said:

Back tax needs to be paid, but why pay back insurance. 

 

Because it's mandatory.

 

Tax and compulsory Government Insurance go hand in hand and are paid together.

Paying back road tax, without paying the Insurance would create a loophole and many Thais would only re-tax every 3 years, to avoid paying the compulsory Insurance.

[performance]

No not pay within 7 days. But even later refuse and stick to the DLT.

POLICE as always think your money is there result. On this occasion they loose.

[performance]

I would taken video of them and demanded the finest as per Thai law.

I give them.what there worth nothing.

[recom273]

18 hours ago, eisfeld said:

BTW not 100% sure but I don't think the police are allowed to confiscate your driving license because your bike isn't taxed. Can someone confirm or debunk this?

Of course they can .. They can do anything they want. It's just another way method of control.

 

The first thing they ask for is your license, it follows snatching your keys.

Edited October 21, 2016 by recom273

[eisfeld]

Again, I didn't ask if they can but if it's legal. I know they can and do.

 

Faz: I don't see a loophole there. They would be driving without having paid tax => get fined if checked plus they'd have no insurance.

[Liquorice]

15 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Again, I didn't ask if they can but if it's legal. I know they can and do.

 

Faz: I don't see a loophole there. They would be driving without having paid tax => get fined if checked plus they'd have no insurance.

You misunderstood my post.

 

There currently isn't a loophole, but if they allowed you to pay for the arrears of road tax, without paying the compulsory Insurance that goes with it, then it would create a loophole that many Thais would try to exploit in an attempt to save money.

 

As for being stopped and fined, how many times do you see a line of motorcycles parked up, or doing u turns 100m from a Police checkpoint, even if they are wearing helmets.

No Driving Licence, no road tax, no Insurance, no log book?

 

I've even see them drive through the cones and around the Police officers (who attempt to grab them) to avoid being fined for some misdemeanour.

I don't know how many motorcycles there are in Thailand, but on a recent quiz show, one question was how many Thais re-taxed their motorcycles in 2015.

The correct answer was 1.6 million.

 

.

[eisfeld]

I understood you full and well but I still don't see a loophole. What's the difference to just never paying tax/insurance and riding illegally? Sure, some dodge police checks but tons also run into them and pay. I see both cases all the time.

[Liquorice]

3 hours ago, eisfeld said:

I understood you full and well but I still don't see a loophole. What's the difference to just never paying tax/insurance and riding illegally? Sure, some dodge police checks but tons also run into them and pay. I see both cases all the time.

 

There is no loophole, I never said there was!

 

My reply to Jane Dough question;

Quote

Back tax needs to be paid, but why pay back insurance. 

 

Because if you didn't have to pay both it would create a loophole that many Thais would exploit.

[eisfeld]

21 hours ago, Faz said:

 

There is no loophole, I never said there was!

 

My reply to Jane Dough question;

 

Because if you didn't have to pay both it would create a loophole that many Thais would exploit.

 

You said it would create a loophole and I said I can't see how it would. Please explain exactly what the loophole would be. Maybe we have a different understanding of the term loophole. I just don't see how not having to back-pay insurance gets you around anything.

[papa al]

no

if you don't have to pay back insurance,

then poor Thais would have incentive to not pay it timely...

'[the loophole']

If they must pay eventually to bring the bike into compliance,

less incentive.

awright?

 

[Deepinthailand]

Our bike fell behind (due to the fact it's only used in village) on tax and compulsory insurance. Lad now needs that one to go to school on so tarted it up new brakes tyres chain and sprocket gave the engine a good once over new plug new oils. Took it to test center on way to DTO passed (don't they all). Bought compulsory insurance for it there. Up to DTO with all paperwork needed for tax, cost me 2 years back tax so with the one i bought on way there 3 years.  insurance back cost  never mentioned. Nothing paid

Edited October 23, 2016 by Deepinthailand