May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

Many claim that the leave voters knew exactly what they were doing but its not quite true. My son is 25 and like many of the younger generation has little interest in anything political. He and his wife voted to leave because her mother said so. It's my own fault really, like a good parent I always advised him to stay on good terms with the mother in law.

Have to agree its very sad when 25 year olds are stupid enough to vote one way or another because a family member or in-law told them to vote that way .

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Have to agree its very sad when 25 year olds are stupid enough to vote one way or another because a family member or in-law told them to vote that way .

Couldn't agree more but it has been widespread practice for years on end, many voters have been influenced by their parents views.

In his case it was a bit unfortunate they set the referendum 2 days before his wedding, all reason went out the window.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Have to agree its very sad when 25 year olds are stupid enough to vote one way or another because a family member or in-law told them to vote that way .

 

My daughter (who is at uni in the UK) voted remain because all her friends did, and they were worried about being obstructed from travelling around Europe in their upcoming gap years if we voted out, according to her.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

"Anti social benavior is almost a badge of honour."

 

I'd go further than that and say it IS a "badge of honour" for thugs and hooligans - and they are increasingly a problem in many countries.

 

Personally, I think bringing back the stocks for these anti-social types would be an effective deterrent as they would lose 'honour' very quickly - discouraging others from following them and ending up in the same embarrassing situation.

 

Uncivilised?  Yes, but then again, so are thugs and hooligans so the best solution is a deterrent that embarrasses them in front of everyone.

The gloves need to come off in the short-to medium-term. But the real keys, long-term, as already identified by both sides of this debate, are education and re-creating a civil society.

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, jpinx said:

That rings very true.  So many young voters are totally bored with politicis, and who can blame them?  They only see argumentative, grasping politicians.  The disconnect is huge and is something else the education system needs to address.  Start by educating the current crop of idiots in charge.  So much of perceived education is actually just a very good memory.  IQ tests are  a classic example of how skewed the view of intelligence has become.  What was it Einstein said about the fish?

"Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

Good advice on the MiL Sandy

There is certainly something not right but I am not sure that bored with politics would be the right way to put it, to be bored with politics they would have had to have seen some politics in the first place.

Personally I think they are brought up now with too many distractions(modern technology?) around them which to a certain extent is delaying full adult maturity. To me it seems that they need to be a bit older before they start to appreciate the bigger picture. I wouldn't disagree that the education system should be used in some way to try and stimulate an interest  in politics and world affairs.

Although my son only married last year, he and his wife have had their house for over 3 years now and I often stay with them when back in the UK. They don't spend many evenings at home, my son does night classes for financial exams and he plays in a pop group. They both work and when they are at home they never watch the news or a current affairs programme, they spend the evening either clicking a way on mobile phones or watching some mindless programme from Sky TV. It is fairly obvious why they have little idea of what is happening in the outside world but the real worry is if that is typical of his age group is the problem going to get worse as they move from one generation to the next.

[jpinx]

59 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

My daughter (who is at uni in the UK) voted remain because all her friends did, and they were worried about being obstructed from travelling around Europe in their upcoming gap years if we voted out, according to her.

Which neatly highlights the question of voting age -- it was 21 a while ago.  Who let the teenagers in, and why?

[jpinx]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There is certainly something not right but I am not sure that bored with politics would be the right way to put it, to be bored with politics they would have had to have seen some politics in the first place.

Personally I think they are brought up now with too many distractions(modern technology?) around them which to a certain extent is delaying full adult maturity. To me it seems that they need to be a bit older before they start to appreciate the bigger picture. I wouldn't disagree that the education system should be used in some way to try and stimulate an interest  in politics and world affairs.

Although my son only married last year, he and his wife have had their house for over 3 years now and I often stay with them when back in the UK. They don't spend many evenings at home, my son does night classes for financial exams and he plays in a pop group. They both work and when they are at home they never watch the news or a current affairs programme, they spend the evening either clicking a way on mobile phones or watching some mindless programme from Sky TV. It is fairly obvious why they have little idea of what is happening in the outside world but the real worry is if that is typical of his age group is the problem going to get worse as they move from one generation to the next.

There is no incentive for people like Sandy's family to get involved with politics.  My daughters are both the same - little interest and less inclination to actually do anything about the causes that affect them, because "What difference would it make?"   Roll out the schools debating programmes, chaired by favourite teachers so that kids will go rather than watching TV

[Khun Han]

More good news for the UK economy:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38979582

[SheungWan]

Having just had to read all that dreadful twaddle from the dreary old gits above. 'The young don't know how lucky they are.....'

 

[7by7]

58 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Which neatly highlights the question of voting age -- it was 21 a while ago.  Who let the teenagers in, and why?

The voting age in the UK was lowered to 18 by Harold Wilson's government in The Representation of the Peoples Act 1969. This was the 6th time that suffrage had been extended.

 

Why? For the same reasons suffrage had been extended previously; to allow all adults to vote regardless of their age, gender or social class. Surely you don't want a return to Rotten Boroughs?

 

History of voting in the UK

 

Campaigns in the USA to lower the voting age to 18 began during WWII and intensified during the Vietnam war; using the slogan "Old enough to fight, old enough to vote!" A sentiment I have much sympathy with.

 

There have been recent campaigns to lower the UK age to 16, as was done in Scotland for the independence referendum and for Scottish elections; but not for UK general elections as that is a matter for the UK Parliament. My question is whether at 16 people are mature enough?

 

Of course, being able to vote does not mean someone will.

54 minutes ago, jpinx said:

My daughters are both the same - little interest and less inclination to actually do anything about the causes that affect them

Same here; my daughter is 26. I used to put her on the form when she lived at home and was old enough, but she never voted.

 

Since she moved away from home she has never registered to vote and has no desire to do so. Whenever I ask her why, she simply says she can't be bothered!

 

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by 7by7

[jpinx]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

The voting age in the UK was lowered to 18 by Harold Wilson's government in The Representation of the Peoples Act 1969. This was the 6th time that suffrage had been extended.

 

Why? For the same reasons suffrage had been extended previously; to allow all adults to vote regardless of their age, gender or social class. Surely you don't want a return to Rotten Boroughs?

 

History of voting in the UK

 

Campaigns in the USA to lower the voting age to 18 began during WWII and intensified during the Vietnam war; using the slogan "Old enough to fight, old enough to vote!" A sentiment I have much sympathy with.

 

There have been recent campaigns to lower the UK age to 16, as was done in Scotland for the independence referendum and for Scottish elections; but not for UK general elections as that is a matter for the UK Parliament. My question is whether at 16 people are mature enough?

 

Of course, being able to vote does not mean someone will.

Same here; my daughter is 26. I used to put her on the form when she lived at home and was old enough, but she never voted.

 

Since she moved away from home she has never registered to vote and has no desire to do so. Whenever I ask her why, she simply says she can't be bothered!

 

 

....and there you have it -- they can't be bothered!  You have my sympathy 7x7 -- it must be so frustrating, but us oldies need to somehow come up with a formula that actually will make voting interesting enough -- or do we go the Australian route and make it compulsory?

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My question is whether at 16 people are mature enough?

 

I don't think it is anything to do with age per se, I have seen some very articulate and informed youngsters on question time. Maturity is another matter altogether. I don't want to initiate another education level debate but I do believe there is a link. Those that leave home to be educated usually need to mature earlier whereas those that stay at home are for various reasons tending to remain in the comfort nest for longer.

Edited February 16, 2017 by sandyf

[Grouse]

"Political movement towards women's suffrage began during the war and in 1918, the Parliament of the United Kingdom passed an act granting the vote to: women over the age of 30 who were householders, the wives of householders, occupiers of property with an annual rent of £5, and graduates of British universities"

 

I think here we have the seeds of the way forward ?

[SheungWan]

This thread has now become little to do with Brexit and more to do with some contributor's dumping ground for pet peeves and obsessions more aligned with old age geezerdom somewhat typical of Thailand expats either past or present. All a bit sad really. Maybe they should take an 'angry' photo and stick it on their FB page for the rest of us to throw rotten eggs at.

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by SheungWan

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

This thread has now become little to do with Brexit and more to do with some contributor's dumping ground for pet peeves and obsessions more aligned with old age geezerdom somewhat typical of Thailand expats either past or present. All a bit sad really. Maybe they should take an 'angry' photo and stick it on their FB page for the rest of us to throw rotten eggs at.

 

Quite correct!

 

Let's get back to the topic!

[citybiker]

This thread has now become little to do with Brexit and more to do with some contributor's dumping ground for pet peeves and obsessions more aligned with old age geezerdom somewhat typical of Thailand expats either past or present. All a bit sad really. Maybe they should take an 'angry' photo and stick it on their FB page for the rest of us to throw rotten eggs at.
 

Thankfully I'm not on that FB, or twitter however IMO many people expected rather too much too soon in relation to Brexit.

That fault should lay firmly at Cameron's door but thankfully the 'old guard' are gone & its down to PM Theresa May to pick up the pieces, build a foundation and deal with the hard and rocky task that lays ahead.

It's now finally sinking in within the EU that the UK is deadly serious about a clean but workable divorce from the 'political & interfering EU' as the focus is were leaving the Chaotic messed up Brussels project that is simply in denial, ignorant and unwilling to self reform, a political dictating bully that needs serious overhaul.

I don't want the EU to collapse as it's too strategical important to other Countries however the Brussels project has been failing for far too long and change is compulsory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, citybiker said:

 

Thankfully I'm not on that FB, or twitter however IMO many people expected rather too much too soon in relation to Brexit.

That fault should lay firmly at Cameron's door but thankfully the 'old guard' are gone & its down to PM Theresa May to pick up the pieces, build a foundation and deal with the hard and rocky task that lays ahead.

It's now finally sinking in within the EU that the UK is deadly serious about a clean but workable divorce from the 'political & interfering EU' as the focus is were leaving the Chaotic messed up Brussels project that is simply in denial, ignorant and unwilling to self reform, a political dictating bully that needs serious overhaul.

I don't want the EU to collapse as it's too strategical important to other Countries however the Brussels project has been failing for far too long and change is compulsory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So you don't think much of the EU ?

[Khun Han]

17 hours ago, jpinx said:

....and there you have it -- they can't be bothered!  You have my sympathy 7x7 -- it must be so frustrating, but us oldies need to somehow come up with a formula that actually will make voting interesting enough -- or do we go the Australian route and make it compulsory?

 

It's like I've always said, politics should be about the personalities as much as the policies. One of the side benefits of this is the 'soap opera' effect, which gets the interest and attention of the masses.

[Khun Han]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

This thread has now become little to do with Brexit and more to do with some contributor's dumping ground for pet peeves and obsessions more aligned with old age geezerdom somewhat typical of Thailand expats either past or present. All a bit sad really. Maybe they should take an 'angry' photo and stick it on their FB page for the rest of us to throw rotten eggs at.

 

 

Instead of whingeing, make an interesting ontopic post then (but please not another graph showing how much Sterling has fallen over a period of a particular few hours). It's been kinda slow on the brexit news front for a few days.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Instead of whingeing, make an interesting ontopic post then (but please not another graph showing how much Sterling has fallen over a period of a particular few hours). It's been kinda slow on the brexit news front for a few days.

Here you are:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.poundsterlinglive.com/eur/6232-the-pound-to-fall-to-parity-with-the-euro-by-the-end-of-the-year-say-ubs/amp?client=safari

 

we'll soon be able to sell the cheapest clothes pegs in the world ?

Edited February 16, 2017 by Grouse

[SheungWan]

Euro Pacts:

 

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Euro Pacts:

 

Brilliant! A picture's worth a thousand words to a savage!

[Khun Han]

59 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Euro Pacts:

 

 

PM May has made it abundantly clear time and again that there is plenty of common ground to be had if the EU wants it.

[jpinx]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Euro Pacts:

 

Nice find    Nice to see you contribute something useful    I'll be happy to share that with my fellow savages

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Nice find    Nice to see you contribute something useful    I'll be happy to share that with my fellow savages

A lot of this stuff is from the Bloomberg Brexit feed on Twitter.

[jpinx]

6 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

A lot of this stuff is from the Bloomberg Brexit feed on Twitter.

Good - I'm glad we have you to filter in the interesting bits and pieces

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Good - I'm glad we have you to filter in the interesting bits and pieces

Yes. A filtering organism. Think of me as a mollusc:

 

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

On 2/15/2017 at 4:32 PM, jpinx said:

There is no incentive for people like Sandy's family to get involved with politics.  My daughters are both the same - little interest and less inclination to actually do anything about the causes that affect them, because "What difference would it make?"   Roll out the schools debating programmes, chaired by favourite teachers so that kids will go rather than watching TV

I suspect only a minority of students would be interested enough to stay outside school hours for debating programmes rather than watching TV/their 'phones - but perhaps it would be a start.

 

The main problem (IMO) is that the main parties have been so similar politically for a few decades now (even though they pretend otherwise), so the 'end result' is the same regardless of the party elected.  In view of this, its hardly suprising that youngsters have lost interest in politics.

 

Cameron made 'a mistake' (politically) by actually carrying out his promise of a referendum, and it bit politicians in the bum as it gave voters a genuine chance to change things .

[jpinx]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Yes. A filtering organism. Think of me as a mollusc:

 

 

 

....but can you do the waves of coloured lights under your skin? 

[dick dasterdly]

20 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Good - I'm glad we have you to filter in the interesting bits and pieces

 

8 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Yes. A filtering organism. Think of me as a mollusc:

 

 

 

Please forgive me,  but I find you nowhere near as interesting or fascinating as a cuttlefish .

 

Edit - Need to quickly add that I feel this way about the vast majority of people, so don't take it personally!

Edited February 16, 2017 by dick dasterdly