May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[SheungWan]

22 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Are you serious? Britain has plenty of history of bedding dictators.


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I wouldn't take Brexiteer accusations of 'dictatorship' too seriously. Some of them both cheerleaders of the French National Front (historical roots in the Vichy Regime) and Russia's very own Vladimir Putin, a paragon of democracy. And as for their championing of Royal Prerogative... Case Closed.

[Khun Han]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776

[melvinmelvin]

34 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776

Time UKers got off this big words big numbers path

[Johnyo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40972776

Is he one of the good "experts"?


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[pitrevie]

34 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Is he one of the good "experts"?


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Makes you wonder whether Khun Han bothered to read the article. Professor Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality. So something to look forward to. 

 

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/

[Khun Han]

43 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

Is he one of the good "experts"?


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I just read the article on the beeb website and thought it might be of interest to some (though obviously not to you). Interesting though that, in the article, the pro-remain beeb states that most economists agree that a proper brexit won't be the financial cliff-edge that Project Fear has convinced the msm will happen.

[pitrevie]

27 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I just read the article on the beeb website and thought it might be of interest to some (though obviously not to you). Interesting though that, in the article, the pro-remain beeb states that most economists agree that a proper brexit won't be the financial cliff-edge that Project Fear has convinced the msm will happen.

Well if Minford is one of those experts a cliff edge is the least of your worries, more like a black hole. He predicts that Brexit will cause the end of UK manufacturing, great prospect.

[Grouse]

Point of order

 

Minford is NOT an expert. He is a dilettante.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Grouse

[melvinmelvin]

We thank the distinguished delegate Grouse for clarifiying this salient point.

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

We thank the distinguished delegate Grouse for clarifiying this salient point.

 

As clear as mud. Nobody can say Prof. Minford has a superficial interest in economics or the EU.

 

http://www.patrickminford.net/Academic_Page/CURRICULUM_VITAE_MINFORD_February2015.pdf

 

But there are several dilettante contributors on here!  

[Grouse]

43 minutes ago, nauseus said:

As clear as mud. Nobody can say Prof. Minford has a superficial interest in economics or the EU.

 

http://www.patrickminford.net/Academic_Page/CURRICULUM_VITAE_MINFORD_February2015.pdf

 

But there are several dilettante contributors on here!  

My CV is more impressive than that!

 

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/bbc-criticised-main-news-story-contentious-economists-pro-brexit-claims/

 

Minford was of course the monetarist maniac behind Thatcher's industrial holocaust which saw U.K. Manufacturing fall from 27% of GDP to less than 10%. What a great move! We've all benefitted tremendously. Oafs like Minford give tenure a bad name. Dilettante is being polite; the man is a ****. 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-economists-for-brexit-patrick-minford-study-doubly-misleading-eu-uk-trade-deal-tariff-a7691271.html

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Grouse

[pitrevie]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

My CV is more impressive than that!

 

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/bbc-criticised-main-news-story-contentious-economists-pro-brexit-claims/

 

Minford was of course the monetarist maniac behind Thatcher's industrial holocaust which saw U.K. Manufacturing fall from 27% of GDP to less than 10%. What a great move! We've all benefitted tremendously. Oafs like Minford give tenure a bad name. Dilettante is being polite; the man is a ****. 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-economists-for-brexit-patrick-minford-study-doubly-misleading-eu-uk-trade-deal-tariff-a7691271.html

 

 

As one of the more pro Brexit economists Minford predicts Brexit will mean the end of manufacturing in the UK. Sir Harvey-Jones believed that the combination of Thatcher's free market zealotry and Fortress Britain mentality were killing the country's industrial core. In his 1986 Dimbleby lecture, he remarked: "If we imagine the UK can get by with a bunch of people in smocks showing tourists around medieval castles, we are quite frankly out of our tiny minds." Sounds familiar.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

My CV is more impressive than that!

 

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/uk/bbc-criticised-main-news-story-contentious-economists-pro-brexit-claims/

 

Minford was of course the monetarist maniac behind Thatcher's industrial holocaust which saw U.K. Manufacturing fall from 27% of GDP to less than 10%. What a great move! We've all benefitted tremendously. Oafs like Minford give tenure a bad name. Dilettante is being polite; the man is a ****. 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexiteers-economists-for-brexit-patrick-minford-study-doubly-misleading-eu-uk-trade-deal-tariff-a7691271.html

 

 

Quite a claim, you should post your CV for comparison. I know that, as a committed Keynesian, you will not agree with Prof. Minford, who was only one of numerous economic advisors to Mrs. Thatcher, who inherited a country with an already failing industrial sector and out of control inflation. 

 

The UK's industrial "holocaust" has occurred over decades, not just one. Generally this was due to: loss of UK global power and influence (decline of empire if you like); poor management by all governments (not particularly Thatcher's); rising inflation and energy costs in the 70's; abuse of influence, privilege and power by trade unions and their members under Labour governments in the 70's and the lousy productivity and quality of products during the same period.

 

But membership of the EU itself has compounded the "holocaust" with: the CFP;  high energy prices required by EU common energy policy; no UK industrial subsidies due to EU state aids rules; UK factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. UK production of some autos has been lost to Slovakia, for example, and EU grants or loans have assisted this (no doubt from UK contributions!). Several industries have been relocated like this due to EU policies and bias to newer members.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by nauseus

[Johnyo]

Quite a claim, you should post your CV for comparison. I know that, as a committed Keynesian, you will not agree with Prof. Minford, who was only one of numerous economic advisors to Mrs. Thatcher, who inherited a country with an already failing industrial sector and out of control inflation. 
 
The UK's industrial "holocaust" has occurred over decades, not just one. Generally this was due to: loss of UK global power and influence (decline of empire if you like); poor management by all governments (not particularly Thatcher's); rising inflation and energy costs in the 70's; abuse of influence, privilege and power by trade unions and their members under Labour governments in the 70's and the lousy productivity and quality of products during the same period.
 
But membership of the EU itself has compounded the "holocaust" with: the CFP;  high energy prices required by EU common energy policy; no UK industrial subsidies due to EU state aids rules; UK factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. UK production of some autos has been lost to Slovakia, for example, and EU grants or loans have assisted this (no doubt from UK contributions!). Several industries have been relocated like this due to EU policies and bias to newer members.
 
 

There is so much propaganda and trash in the message above I propose to the moderator to close the thread as this topic is reaching comical status.


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[Jip99]

10 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

There is so much propaganda and trash in the message above I propose to the moderator to close the thread as this topic is reaching comical status.


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Arguably that should have happened 6 months ago.....

Edited August 22, 2017 by Jip99

[melvinmelvin]

If the poster felt like getting what you refer to as propaganda off his chest, this thread is as suitable as any.

There is a bunch of other brexit-threads around, they wouldn't serve as propaganda repository any better than this.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

Theresa May climb downs from her Brexit red-line on European judges

The UK government will today confirm Theresa May has backed down on her promise to make Britain totally independent from the influence of European judges when they release their Brexit negotiation plans on cross-border legal cases.

The Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) will at midday release a paper conceding that the rulings of foreign judges will continue to apply to British individuals and businesses even after Britain leaves the EU in March 2019, the Guardian reports.

The position paper, the third to be published this week, will outline May's acceptance that rulings made in other EU member states could be applied to family, consumer and business disputes that involve parties based in Britain and that EU member state.

http://www.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-climbs-down-on-brexit-red-line-to-end-influence-of-european-law-2017-8

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Theresa May climb downs from her Brexit red-line on European judges

The UK government will today confirm Theresa May has backed down on her promise to make Britain totally independent from the influence of European judges when they release their Brexit negotiation plans on cross-border legal cases.

The Department for Exiting the EU (DExEU) will at midday release a paper conceding that the rulings of foreign judges will continue to apply to British individuals and businesses even after Britain leaves the EU in March 2019, the Guardian reports.

The position paper, the third to be published this week, will outline May's acceptance that rulings made in other EU member states could be applied to family, consumer and business disputes that involve parties based in Britain and that EU member state.

http://www.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-climbs-down-on-brexit-red-line-to-end-influence-of-european-law-2017-8

 

Typical Grauniad spin. It isn't a climbdown. It's a proposal to deal with complex cross-border legal  issues. If the government were to concede ECJ  interference in internal legal matters, that would be a climbdown.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, Johnyo said:

 

There is so much propaganda and trash in the message above I propose to the moderator to close the thread as this topic is reaching comical status.


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Why don't you argue against it then, instead of throwing Teddy out of the pram? Oh I think I know, never mind.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Typical Grauniad spin. It isn't a climbdown. It's a proposal to deal with complex cross-border legal  issues. If the government were to concede ECJ  interference in internal legal matters, that would be a climbdown.

 

Trying to understand I hope that you can elaborate a bit on your views on this.

 

I know I'm kinda daft but agreeing that European courts' views re UK individuals and businesses should count,

isn't that kind of a climbdown?

 

When talking about UK individuals and businesses I just gather that we talk internal legal matters.

 

[Grouse]

Ahem

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/hard-brexit-british-economy-study-trade-customs-union-single-market-europe-eu-ridiculous-a7906086.html%3famp

 

I did try to point out that Minford was a .....

[nauseus]

31 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ahem

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/hard-brexit-british-economy-study-trade-customs-union-single-market-europe-eu-ridiculous-a7906086.html%3famp

 

I did try to point out that Minford was a .....

I know you were. But if Mr Ben (Ah) Chu was actually an economist and not just an obsessed Euroskeptic, he might be credible.

[SheungWan]

On 8/21/2017 at 10:03 AM, nauseus said:

 

 

The UK's industrial "holocaust"............

 

Offensive and pathetic. Double hit.

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Offensive and pathetic. Double hit.

 

nope, not offensive, this is smth UK needs to look into, closely

(brexit or no brexit)

 

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Offensive and pathetic. Double hit.

The H-word was used by Grouse in a post that I was responding to.

The H-word was used with quotation marks to reflect this.

So your comment really applies to yourself. Big miss!

 

 

 

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Offensive and pathetic. Double hit.

I coined the phrase

 

It is absolutely appropriate in describing what happened to British industry and communities during the Thatcher period.

 

Holocaust is an entirely suitable word and should not be hijacked for any particular monstrosity.

 

holocaust

ˈhɒləkɔːst/

noun

1. 1. 

   destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.

   "a nuclear holocaust"

   synonyms:

   cataclysm, disaster, catastrophe, destruction, devastation, demolition, annihilation, ravaging;  inferno, fire, conflagration;  massacre, slaughter, mass murder, carnage, butchery, extermination, liquidation, genocide, ethnic cleansing

[nauseus]

Just now, Grouse said:

I coined the phrase

 

It is absolutely appropriate in describing what happened to British industry and communities during the Thatcher period.

 

Holocaust is an entirely suitable word and should not be hijacked for any particular monstrosity.

 

holocaust

ˈhɒləkɔːst/

noun

1. 1. 

   destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.

   "a nuclear holocaust"

   synonyms:

   cataclysm, disaster, catastrophe, destruction, devastation, demolition, annihilation, ravaging;  inferno, fire, conflagration;  massacre, slaughter, mass murder, carnage, butchery, extermination, liquidation, genocide, ethnic cleansing

Thankyou, Mr. G!

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Trying to understand I hope that you can elaborate a bit on your views on this.

 

I know I'm kinda daft but agreeing that European courts' views re UK individuals and businesses should count,

isn't that kind of a climbdown?

 

When talking about UK individuals and businesses I just gather that we talk internal legal matters.

 

 

AFAIK the paper discusses how to deal with legal issues between parties in the UK and a.n. other EU state. Obviously, neither of the parties is going to accept the other party's legal system as sole arbiter, so a system has to be put in place which is mutually acceptable.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I coined the phrase

 

It is absolutely appropriate in describing what happened to British industry and communities during the Thatcher period.

 

Holocaust is an entirely suitable word and should not be hijacked for any particular monstrosity.

 

holocaust

ˈhɒləkɔːst/

noun

1. 1. 

   destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.

   "a nuclear holocaust"

   synonyms:

   cataclysm, disaster, catastrophe, destruction, devastation, demolition, annihilation, ravaging;  inferno, fire, conflagration;  massacre, slaughter, mass murder, carnage, butchery, extermination, liquidation, genocide, ethnic cleansing

 

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Thankyou, Mr. G!

So now we have an unholy alliance of offensiveness and ignorance. Echoes of the populist antics both on the extreme right and extreme left in the UK mimicking each other. Here, one meant it and the other a fool for playing with matches.

Edited August 22, 2017 by SheungWan

[Grouse]

43 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

So now we have an unholy alliance of offensiveness and ignorance. Echoes of the populist antics both on the extreme right and extreme left in the UK mimicking each other. Here, one meant it and the other a fool for playing with matches.

What on earth are you going on about? Have the Jewish people hijacked the English language? The word holocaust was not dreamt up 75 years ago!

 

You remind me of Life of Brian:

 

Jehovah Jehovah, Jehovah!

 

Jesus!

 

"a situation in which many things are destroyed and many people killed, especially because of a war or a fire"

 

I feel strongly about the blight unnecessarily visited on the industrial parts of the UK. I will damn well use the phraseology I think most suitable. I did Not use capitals.

Edited August 22, 2017 by Grouse