Education going backward?

[thhMan]

I have 2 girls in school and the eldest is 12 and it seems the more schooling she gets, the less able she is to comprehend and just use basic logic....

Her grasp of English and Maths seems to be degrading, which I cannot understand, how this is happening.

Today is Saturday and she is off to school again (Pattaya) and it is also the day that I got fed up and decided to look into the schooling system as something is not right, as this is an issue that appears to have been getting worse over the past few months.

 

So I checked WIKIPEDIA and noticed this comment.

"It is highly possible that Thailand's education system is harming student IQs."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Thailand

 

I dont normally believe everything I read, but because this is becoming and issue, I now suspect that something is not right...

 

I hope this is just a passing fad, but as a concerned Dad, I am just asking if others have found something similar going on?

[MilesofSmiles]

Public school, in infamous, sleazy part of developing country is crappy.

News at 11.

 

 

C'mon man, what did you expect ?

 

[daveAustin]

Bearing in mind, unless it's locked/verified (or whatever), virtually anyone can edit Wiki. They're talking lack of iodine also being a factor. Could be for those not eating right, but having heads buried in smartphones also can't be good. But yes, we all know Thai education ain't the best. Having said that, when I took my boy back to the UK (he was the youngest in the class and possibly the school), he was near the top in maths and getting merits left and right. Did you consider home-schooling or taking them back home for a year or two? 

[MikeyIdea]

I really enjoy the subject but don't have time to make a long answer now. Short start...

 

I've been in Thailand for over 25 years now, I haven't been teaching here for 20 years but I think I keep up pretty well because I live mainly in the Thai world so to speak, I speak and read Thai (won't mention my writing, ok? ), I have a daughter in grade 6 in a bilingual school in Bangkok and I have followed her and the school closely, I have several western friends who have worked as teachers in Thailand for several years. Not an expert but awake I suppose

 

That Wikipedia page is a joke, definitely one of the worse Wikipedia pages I have ever read. 

It draws conclusions from mysterious non named surveys, sometimes a reputable organisation that of course has formally published its work is mentioned but there is no link to it,  much in the page is in negatives like "Teacher development and associated problems", it states "facts" totally without reference

 

There are totally incorrect statements like "many high school students will commute 60–80 kilometres to schools in the nearest city", the word "bestowed" is in quotation marks but no reference to why. I can't be bothered to continue, the quality of the article is simply too low

 

There are many problems with the Thai educational system, some Thai's openly talk about the failure of the Thai educational system and there clearly is some truth in it of course. I will move my own daughter to an international school for grade 7 because I can now afford it but driven by my experience of the Thai educational system

 

But...

 

The Wikipedia page looks like it has been written by a bunch of different foreign teacher with bachelor degrees in any field who finally got fired from Thai schools because of their alcoholism and want to take revenge any way they can  

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by MikeyIdea
added Wikipedia

[jcisco]

If you go and add those comments regarding the page to the talk page, i'll likely mark the page for deletion and it will pass

[MikeyIdea]

53 minutes ago, jcisco said:

If you go and add those comments regarding the page to the talk page, i'll likely mark the page for deletion and it will pass

 

I just added comments to the actual page, the page lacks references in so many places that it should be verified and improved before it is made public - people should know what they read 

 

'''This Wikipedia page is definitely one of the worst Wikipedia pages I have ever read. 

It draws conclusions from mysterious non named surveys, sometimes a reputable organisation that of course has formally published its work is mentioned but there is no link to it,  much in the page is in negatives like "Teacher development and associated problems", it states "facts" totally without reference

 

There are totally incorrect statements like "many high school students will commute 60–80 kilometres to schools in the nearest city", the word "bestowed" is sarcastically in quotation marks but no reference to why. I can't be bothered to continue, the quality of the article is simply too low

 

The Wikipedia page looks like it has been written by a bunch of different foreign teacher with bachelor degrees in any field who finally got fired from Thai schools because of their alcoholism and want to take revenge any way they can 

Please add references and remove statements that cannot be verified"

 

I have done what I have time to do. If it is removed, then parents like the OP will continue to be mislead by bad Wikipedia material, up to others to act upon or accept

 

 

Edited November 5, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Rhys]

Those who can afford the international schools, seem fine.

[MilesofSmiles]

How did the wikipedia edits turn out ?

[jcisco]

Reverted

[Slip]

When I started to work at my bilingual program school 15 years ago, all of the foreign teachers were native English speakers.  Today that has dropped to 25%, and two of us are under pressure from Thai government agencies for degree verification that has only become an issue in the last year.  (To explain my UK degree from 1990 did not come with a transcript). If the powers that be wish to continue to force out experienced, relatively well qualified native speakers, and employ under-experienced/ under-qualified back packers through agencies, or qualified non-native speakers, it seems to me that the standard of English education can only continue to fall.  You are reaping what they have sown.

[MikeyIdea]

2 hours ago, MilesofSmiles said:

How did the wikipedia edits turn out ?

 

Of course the warnings are taken away. The article has had quality problems since 2008 and it hasn't been taken down yet. Why would Wikipedia want to take it down now? They could have done that 8 years ago if quality of that article had been important to them

 

[DavisH]

22 hours ago, Rhys said:

Those who can afford the international schools, seem fine.

but all international schools are not created equally. The fine ones have fees well exceeding 500K (usually up to 1M) baht a year. 

[Rhys]

On 5/11/2559 at 7:13 PM, Slip said:

When I started to work at my bilingual program school 15 years ago, all of the foreign teachers were native English speakers.  Today that has dropped to 25%, and two of us are under pressure from Thai government agencies for degree verification that has only become an issue in the last year.  (To explain my UK degree from 1990 did not come with a transcript). If the powers that be wish to continue to force out experienced, relatively well qualified native speakers, and employ under-experienced/ under-qualified back packers through agencies, or qualified non-native speakers, it seems to me that the standard of English education can only continue to fall.  You are reaping what they have sown.

 

 

This is quite the irony is it not. Thai Administration wennies, want quality and NEST, yet will offer salaries that are insulting. There are roles for the "non-degree, non-English major" as tutors  if they can show their writing, speaking teaching abilities, as a supplement to the regular programs.   Back in the day, we had a nice variety of English accents, an American, Brit, and Canadian. Now it has only been one for 2 years.

 

Is your school on the push to improve the standards for exit test scores for English as well, based on that Common European Model?

[thailand49]

I haven't read any of the stuff mentioned, and not to disrespect their opinion but their experience is from Bangkok.  Like you (Pattaya) I took many things for granted especially the education. When it was noticed it was pretty much too late.  What I have read is the many articles written by Thais themselves degrading their own system.

Many of the stuff you see happening now is very true!  The Saturday stuff is a big joke getting them ready for a National test basically giving them the answer.

My son was in a semi private school,  not one teacher including the principle could speak English and never has any of the announcements for school events although they had many Farang parents in English.

I have never meant a student and I've been here for a while and live basically in a Thai village that could speak a lick of English.

As noted, everything that I suspected and concluded from their system comes from their own scholars who aren't afraid to speak up.

Edited November 7, 2016 by thailand49

[grumbleweed]

I'm fairly optimistic that if the education system could improve exponentially over the next 4 - 5 years it could achieve joke status

[recycler]

I had 2 kids on an expensive bi-lingual school and recently moved them both to an international school.

 

Every government adds to the compulsory curriculum with new political, military and religious content, rarely something is removed, resulting in less and less time for basic skills like reading, writing, match, etc. Basic skills are increasingly moved to the already extreme amount of homework.

 

The bi-lingual school has been replacing experienced native English speakers with cheaper staff from South Africa, the Philippines or other dysfunctional societies leading to an even faster decay of the quality of education.

 

Signs of improvement came quickly after moving them to the international school.

 

I hope I can continue to afford the school fees until the end of their school career, but it certainly dents my retirement savings.

[Srikcir]

PM Prayut highlighted the importance of studying science, technology, and mathematics to encourage critical thinking among the youth. But future examinations will cover components gained outside the classrooms at no less than 70%, while boys should be instilled with gentlemen manners to help protect ladies, while all students should ultimately become good persons.

 

http://nwnt.prd.go.th/CenterWeb/NewsEN/NewsDetail?NT01_NewsID=WNICT5903010010001#sthash.8IBj2B9m.dpuf

 

 

 

 

[adhd]

are you an absentee father?

 

my girls are nr 2 & nr 3 for english in their class, only to be outsmarted by another  half half :)

 

one was diagnosed adhd by the good thai doctors, but  since many months off her meds but taking supplements in stead, as meds cure NOTHING

 

[AlQaholic]

Our company hire University graduates regularly (several times a year) and in my experience the skills of the graduates have deteriorated over the years. Especially when it comes to English language skills, but also the skills for what they where educated. I have for example in my staff a Mechanical Engineer recently graduated from University who is completely unaware of the most basic Mechanical Engineering principles, and I can tell even me being an engineer of a completely different discipline.

[Honthy]

Just about teaching and one factor . When I started here six years ago, we had 50 minutes classes. Now 40. The kids are not faster than they were 6 years ago 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmmm....... educated children might start asking embarrassing questions.TIT

[MikeyIdea]

 

2 hours ago, recycler said:

Every government adds to the compulsory curriculum with new political, military and religious content, rarely something is removed, resulting in less and less time for basic skills like reading, writing, match, etc. Basic skills are increasingly moved to the already extreme amount of homework.

 

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 2:52 PM, recycler said:

For her education you would be a lot better of in the UK, unless you are prepared to pay astronomic term fees at International schools.

 

Thai education, even in bi-lingual or English program schools, is very bad and loaded with compulsory political, military and religious content that is considered more important than learning to read and write.

 

You are again babbling about political and military content, I have already replied to you about that and you chose not to answer of course

 

Military and political content? There is nothing about military and political content in the Thai curriculum and it is not taught in Thai schools either. There is however a whole lot about Thai culture, Thai tradition, Thai social values, Thai history and it is even compulsory to know how the Thai electoral system is built up. Please read the Thai curriculum... It is readily available on the internet in Thai.

 

This is not a surprise: Thai schools teach everything that Thai values find important, they teach everything based on Thai values, they choose to teach what is important for Thai's, they teach what Thai's are proud of and proud to be. Most westerners find that pretty useless, sure. It's hardly up to foreigners to dictate what is important for Thai's and thereby should be taught in Thai schools though

 

The problem with the Thai schools is not what Thai schools teach, they teach what the schools should teach considering that they are Thai, the main issue is how they teach it and that it is more important to learn = memorise all the above than it is to be able to use it

 

Thai schools influence how learning is absorbed. Thai children tend to rely on memorisation first, logical and critical thinking second. This is also what the OP posts about. I expected that when my daughter started school and tried to compensate for it at home, I have been worried too but I think it works OK. It's a bit weird, she has mainly Ds and Fs in Thai subjects and As and Bs in English, she is a bit lazy so she would be somewhere in the middle in Europe. I am confident that she will be a high performer as long as she chooses something that she likes and... I am happy that she has absorbed Thai values too and has a broader base to make her decisions in life on 

 

I have an old western friend living in Trad, his half Thai son has been schooled totally within the Thai system, with a western father and a university educated Thai mother at home. He is the best in his class here and I think he would be the best in his class also in a British school

 

Educated Thai's talk about the failure of the Thai educational system and it is of course true and Thai schools are generally bad at preparing children for life. It has had quite a lot of media coverage in the Thai press, yes there should be more emphasis on Maths and Science but it is not much about that wrong things are taught actually, it is more about that it is taught the wrong way.

 

PM Prayut also brought up critical thinking but that is difficult to match with Thai culture. I have many times over the years heard Thai's say that they don't want their kids in International schools because they become impolite, obstinate even. It took me 15 years to stop laughing at it but then I realised that it of course is true. They are taught self-confidence, taught to question but not how to implement it in a Thai cultural environment.

 

OP, I don't think you should worry too much, kids do go through stages, it's up and down and that is also how life is.

 

Do be active in their education and in their life, in a friendly non pushy way, be their primary role model in life and your kids will copy you, the good as well as the bad :) Less extra tutoring, less emphasis on knowledge and more on EQ of course

 

Your kids will do fine. Good Luck

 

Mikey

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea
Added Less extra tutoring,

[MikeyIdea]

Just now, bbbbooboo said:

Hmmmm....... educated children might start asking embarrassing questions.TIT

 

A question has to be embarrassing to be embarrassing in the western culture, here too many or unnecessary questions are embarrassing and impolite without having to have an embarrassing content

 

[MikeyIdea]

I have no idea why the post came... Sorry guys

Edited November 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[whatproblem]

My son goes to a Thai school but I also teach him at home after school ,you can't rely on Thai teachers ,they are only there for the money.

[AlQaholic]

10 minutes ago, whatproblem said:

My son goes to a Thai school but I also teach him at home after school ,you can't rely on Thai teachers ,they are only there for the money.

Money??? what money?? it is said that school teachers individual debt on average is 3M baht, and that is the average of all teachers in Thailand.....

[whatproblem]

6 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Money??? what money?? it is said that school teachers individual debt on average is 3M baht, and that is the average of all teachers in Thailand.....

They still get paid don't they ,that's the money I talking about ,wages ,salary 

[MikeyIdea]

 

23 minutes ago, whatproblem said:

My son goes to a Thai school but I also teach him at home after school ,you can't rely on Thai teachers ,they are only there for the money.

 

Hmm, Thai's know that primary and secondary school teachers are paid appallingly low salaries. Those who still chose to become teachers do it either because teachers have high status, they like to teach, or because their parents want them to be a teacher.

 

None of them are there for the miserable salary they get

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[whatproblem]

There basic salary might be low but they get extras ,with extra classes they teach and all the other things children have to buy from them .most of them are not worth what they get

Edited November 7, 2016 by whatproblem

[Honthy]

2 hours ago, whatproblem said:

My son goes to a Thai school but I also teach him at home after school ,you can't rely on Thai teachers ,they are only there for the money.

and for ridiculously less money