Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[SpoliaOpima]

you forgot the regular "retirement" visa 1 year, over 50 years; 800,000 baht , 20,000 € or $ and same report to immigration 5 minutes every 90 days...1900 baht every year so far..

Yes, no matter what visa you're on, the 90-day reporting applies, so that condition is irrelevant to the decision of whether to choose the 10-year route.

[SpoliaOpima]

I wonder whether Pattaya immigration will continue the current practice of temporarily loaning foreigners the necessary funds to qualify for the visa in exchange for buying health insurance at a cost of around 15k per year.

[ravip]

On 11/22/2016 at 4:49 PM, DiamondKing said:

3 Million in the Bank and you cant touch it for 1 year after the visa is issues or 100,000 in salary coming in every month 

ITS A JOKE 

I wonder if a Thai could get a similar visa in the west for a lesser amount?

 

[mania]

1 minute ago, ravip said:

I wonder if a Thai could get a similar visa in the west for a lesser amount?

 

 

My wife did & then a work permit & a SS#

3 years later she was a US citizen

I wonder if you can get that here?....555 actually I dont wonder as I know already

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, lothda said:

 

Right. Wait and see. I'm not due until late 2017. I'll watch the immigration website for a new form to show up (The TM7 form actually allows to enter any number of days for the extension but the fee mentioned is 1,900 Baht, for 1 year.)

Well i was in on my 90 day a few days ago , and he reminded me that my one year would be up soon and what date to come in , no mention of any new rules .

[newnative]

I think the postings claiming that expats don't contribute much to the economy are totally wrong. Let's just take ONE expat--me.  I own 3 condos which I paid transfer taxes on--contributing to the government coffers. Buying them helped the whole Thai housing industry and the many industries that contribute to it.  My condo fees help pay the salaries of the staff at the 3 condos--everyone from gardeners and cleaners to the office staff.  I bought a new car, which gave the sales staff some work, and I have it serviced at the dealer--which helps keep the mechanics working. I have it washed on a regular basis--which helps keeps the car wash guy in business.  So far this week I've been to the dermatologist--helping to keep a doctor in business.  Next week I will get my hair cut at a shop that has probably 50% Thai and 50% expat customers--take away the expats and they'll lose half their business.  This week I've shopped and bought items at Index and Home Pro and bought groceries at Max Value.  Had a watch repaired at Harbor--giving some business to an independent shopkeeper.  My partner and I have eaten out this week so far at probably 6or 8 different restaurants--helping to keep cooks and wait staff working.  We eat at both small restaurants and name brands.   Not long ago my partner and I bought new cell phones and laptops--giving some business to 2 small electronics stores.  When I bought my current condo I gave work to a Bangkok company that did the custom kitchen cabinets and bath vanities.  Also employed  2 independent companies to do the granite counters and the tile backsplash.  More independent workers did the new lighting and electrical work.  Another Bangkok company got the job for the custom sofa and still another independent small Pattaya company did the custom bedroom furniture. A third small company did the dining table.   I employed an artist to do one of the paintings in the dining room and gave work to a Mom and Pop picture framer business to frame several other artworks.  We like to buy our bed and bath linens for our condos from 2 independent shops--helping to keep these 2 small businesses going.  We've taken a number of trips around Thailand--staying in hotels and contributing to the local economies as tourists there.  Next year my four sisters will be coming to Thailand to stay for a couple weeks and they love to spend--they wouldn't be coming if I wasn't here.  Probably half the time we will be staying in hotels in Bangkok.   Well, guess you get the picture.  Multiply me by the number of expats here.

[theoldgit]

9 minutes ago, ravip said:

I wonder if a Thai could get a similar visa in the west for a lesser amount?

 

Yes, they could, for instance a Thai person wishing to settle in the UK would need to demonstrate an income of less than 70,000 Baht a month at current rates, or rather their sponsor would.

 

If they went down the cash in bank rate, they would require less than 3m Baht in the bank, and it would not be frozen.

 

And that's for settlement, not a long term visit/stay visa, these are not available. 

[edwinchester]

10 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

 

Yes, they could, for instance a Thai person wishing to settle in the UK would need to demonstrate an income of less than 70,000 Baht a month at current rates, or rather their sponsor would.

 

If they went down the cash in bank rate, they would require less than 3m Baht in the bank, and it would not be frozen.

 

And that's for settlement, not a long term visit/stay visa, these are not available. 

UK does have a 10 year visitor visa allowing maximum stays of 6 months per year, it costs 34,000 bht.

[Thaidream]

Just reread the current police order which applies to extensions of stay - there was clearly a grandfather clause put into the order indicating that people currently on extensions were allowed to use the financials that were in effect at the time of their initial extension and continue to use that amount for future consecutive extensions. These people were not subject to new  criteria such as different age or financial requirements. 

The proposed Visa sets requirements to obtain a 10 year Visa for retirement purposes- new cost; new financials; insurance requirement. There is no indication that this will be the only Visa available to come to Thailand long term. It could replace the O-A Visa; however, a person could still come on a Non O and apply for extensions for retirement for 1 year under the current financials; could enter on an exempt or SETV or METV and convert to a Non O at Immigration and then extend for a one year or even extension for a 5 year based upon the financials and rules for that extension.

It strikes me that the translated text provides a new category of Visa that will replace the O-A Visa but does not change other Visa categories and the criteria for extensions. If you do not meet the qualifications of the new  ten year O-A Visa- and want to retire in Thailand come in on other Visa types and request a one year extension.

[Peterw42]

9 minutes ago, newnative said:

I think the postings claiming that expats don't contribute much to the economy are totally wrong. Let's just take ONE expat--me.  I own 3 condos which I paid transfer taxes on--contributing to the government coffers. Buying them helped the whole Thai housing industry and the many industries that contribute to it.  My condo fees help pay the salaries of the staff at the 3 condos--everyone from gardeners and cleaners to the office staff.  I bought a new car, which gave the sales staff some work, and I have it serviced at the dealer--which helps keep the mechanics working. I have it washed on a regular basis--which helps keeps the car wash guy in business.  So far this week I've been to the dermatologist--helping to keep a doctor in business.  Next week I will get my hair cut at a shop that has probably 50% Thai and 50% expat customers--take away the expats and they'll lose half their business.  This week I've shopped and bought items at Index and Home Pro and bought groceries at Max Value.  Had a watch repaired at Harbor--giving some business to an independent shopkeeper.  My partner and I have eaten out this week so far at probably 6or 8 different restaurants--helping to keep cooks and wait staff working.  We eat at both small restaurants and name brands.   Not long ago my partner and I bought new cell phones and laptops--giving some business to 2 small electronics stores.  When I bought my current condo I gave work to a Bangkok company that did the custom kitchen cabinets and bath vanities.  Also employed  2 independent companies to do the granite counters and the tile backsplash.  More independent workers did the new lighting and electrical work.  Another Bangkok company got the job for the custom sofa and still another independent small Pattaya company did the custom bedroom furniture. A third small company did the dining table.   I employed an artist to do one of the paintings in the dining room and gave work to a Mom and Pop picture framer business to frame several other artworks.  We like to buy our bed and bath linens for our condos from 2 independent shops--helping to keep these 2 small businesses going.  We've taken a number of trips around Thailand--staying in hotels and contributing to the local economies as tourists there.  Next year my four sisters will be coming to Thailand to stay for a couple weeks and they love to spend--they wouldn't be coming if I wasn't here.  Probably half the time we will be staying in hotels in Bangkok.   Well, guess you get the picture.  Multiply me by the number of expats here.

 

Thats a lot of VAT !!!!, probably more than most Thais pay in income tax. I can think of a couple of things you haven't factored in, vehicle tax, fuel tax at the pump, expressway tolls, (be careful as some of this may be building infrastructure). Internet, phone and cable TV (again building infrastructure).

 

When are you going to start paying your way, lol

[Anthony5]

32 minutes ago, i claudius said:

Well i was in on my 90 day a few days ago , and he reminded me that my one year would be up soon and what date to come in , no mention of any new rules .

 

Indeed he didn't tell you about new rules, and that is because,

 

Athisit said. It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented.

 

But you would have been aware of that if you had read the OP

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Indeed he didn't tell you about new rules, and that is because,

 

Athisit said. It was not immediately clear when the plan would be implemented.

 

But you would have been aware of that if you had read the OP

 

It is not a new rule , it is a new scheme , you can stay on the same rules that you are using now if you want to . you will NOT have to change .

[newnative]

Yes, there are many things I didn't mention, Peter, and they all add up.  And, I'm not even raising kids here--another big list.

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, newnative said:

Yes, there are many things I didn't mention, Peter, and they all add up.  And, I'm not even raising kids here--another big list.

Yes and you are suggesting that they multiply your shopping list above to determine the impact of the combined typical expat in Thailand -- custom sofa and painting for the dining room?

 

BTW  to the post a few notches above the grandfather clause in the latest Police Order 327/2557 says that one would have to have been on CONSECUTIVE retirement extensions since October 1998 to qualify.

Edited November 24, 2016 by JLCrab

[Chip Allen]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

So.. Marry her.. Stay on a marriage extension.. 

 

The drama is ?? 

The DRAMA is......that it is not spelled out specifically if this new visa replaces the old requirements or not. Nary a word about "grandfathering" in previous Non_Immigrant O holders and those on extensions of stay. Nada. That's the "drama". Marriage visa would be a moot point if the new visa replaces all.

[Henryford]

Most of the posts here are speculation so we will have to wait for clarification. The other aspects that needs confirming is whether the 100,000 salary/pension is gross or net. It was never clear to me whether the existing 65,000 is gross or net. In my dealings with immigration they sometimes use it gross and sometimes net. If net the person would need to be earning 40,000 GBP a year to net 100,000 baht a month.

[Peterw42]

16 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Yes and you are suggesting that they multiply your shopping list above to determine the impact of the combined typical expat in Thailand -- custom sofa and painting for the dining room?

 

We all buy different things, newnative brought a custom sofa and paitings, I recently brought a big motorbike and a guitar. Point being, We buy things, consistently and spread broadly across the Thai economy.

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Peterw42

[phuketrichard]

Quote

Just reread the current police order which applies to extensions of stay - there was clearly a grandfather clause put into the order indicating that people currently on extensions were allowed to use the financials that were in effect at the time of their initial extension and continue to use that amount for future consecutive extensions. These people were not subject to new  criteria such as different age or financial requirements. 

if this was not true, there would be a mass exodus of those currently using 1 year extensions ,  how many of us would be willing to tie up 3 million baht for a year???

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by phuketrichard

[Bill Miller]

I am not sure, but possibly some inexact language used in the report of this "replacing" the current annually renewable permission to stay. which is not a visa per se. Perhaps it is meant that it will replace the annual route for those who elect it.
Does anyone know how to confirm one way or another, or is it in the "wait and see" category?
I could just manage the monthly income, and am by Western standards certainly not wealthy.

 

[CMNightRider]

This new 10 year visa proposal for foreigners 50 years old and over is long over due.  I live in Chiang Mai, and have met plenty of retirees here who will easily qualify for this visa.  Hopefully, Thai immigration will implement this soon. :-)     

[phuketrichard]

3 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

This new 10 year visa proposal for foreigners 50 years old and over is long over due.  I live in Chiang Mai, and have met plenty of retirees here who will easily qualify for this visa.  Hopefully, Thai immigration will implement this soon. :-)     

WHY:::::
only difference is on the old system we spend a few hours ( sometimes less)at immigration once /year.

PLUS we dont need tie up a huge amount of $$$ or worry about having another 35,000 baht/month OR NEED to buy medical insurance

 

So tell me, whats the advantage??

Edited November 24, 2016 by phuketrichard

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, edwinchester said:

UK does have a 10 year visitor visa allowing maximum stays of 6 months per year, it costs 34,000 bht.

Yes I'm aware of that, but as you say it only allows the applicant to stay in the UK for six months in a twelve month period and is designed for regular visitors.
Where as the new ten year visa proposed by the Thai Government allows the holder to stay in The Kingdom for ten years and I was answering the question raised with the nearest comparable visa type.

[siam2007]

Did some google-ing and found:

 

Average MONTHLY pensions in Europe (not complete, just what I found, data 2014/2015, can provide you with links if interested)

 

Lithuania     242 € 

Slovakia      408 €

Poland        504 €

Portugal      833 €

Greece       882 €

Spain        1.021 €

France     1.052 €

Germany  1.176 €

Austria     1.560 € (paid 14 times a year)

 

I know many retired folks from my home country who came to Thailand, some of them decades ago, as they can live a decent live here in Thailand but not in my home country. Back then, Thailand welcomed them with open arms. They all contribute to the local economy in one way or the other, micro-economy is economy too. They eat at local food outlets, rent apartments or Condos from local people, use local laundries, transport services a.s.o. -> The money all goes into the pockets of the local communities. What is wrong with those people that Thailand wants to kick them out? Ah, I forgot, the "Elite" is running the show right now, so they want to have foreign Elite too.

By comparison, Malaysia always had the (challenging) rules for their MM2H program clearly announced, and once you qualified, you were in. No nasty surprises. Same goes for Indonesia. Philippines is relaxing the rules, as they WANT foreigners to stay there (that was before the 2016 developments, though). Cambodia is still easy, though poor infrastructure is a concern.

As for myself - I own property in my home country, and for sure I will not sell it just to have 3M dead money on a Thai Bank account, of which only 1M is really safe. But then again, it is everyone's own decision (if you have a choice, that is)

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, phuketrichard said:

WHY:::::
only difference is on the old system we spend a few hours ( sometimes less)at immigration once /year.

PLUS we dont need tie up a huge amount of $$$ or worry about having another 35,000 baht/month OR NEED to buy medical insurance

 

So tell me, whats the advantage??

 

I am thinking the same, will it actually result in less visits to immigration ? I can see yearly visits to immigration to show you still have funds and still have health insurance. Or every time you move or reenter the country, a TM30.

[samuibeachcomber]

Is n't this just a new visa plan?............anyone qualifying is well stocked and good luck to those that can afford a 10 year visa.

 

For the many thousands now living in thailand who will not qualify hopefully the visa rules that now apply will still apply otherwise there will be an exodus plus how hurtfull this will be to many thai families reliant on their farang spouse.

 

It's never been a secret that the authorities want more well heeled foreigners living here but hopefully they will take into account the less well healed foreigners too.

[newnative]

Well, everybody's shopping list will have a few items that might not be on others, JLCrab.  I really don't think a custom sofa or having a painting done is that unusual. In America--yes.  In Thailand--no.   One of the joys of living in Thailand is you can have something custom made and the cost is often the same or not much more than buying a standard item at a retail store.  We couldn't find a sofa or dining table that was exactly what we wanted in the exact size we needed so we had them made--not a big deal and they turned out great.  We know a wonderful Thai artist that we like--it was a no-brainer to use him and throw some business his way rather than buying a standard painting at Index

[CMNightRider]

3 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

WHY:::::
only difference is on the old system we spend a few hours ( sometimes less)at immigration once /year.

PLUS we dont need tie up a huge amount of $$$ or worry about having another 35,000 baht/month OR NEED to buy medical insurance

 

So tell me, whats the advantage??

 

Well, the advantage for me as well as others, is I have the monthly income and health insurance.  I already avoid the non-sensical 90 day reporting because I rather take trips to different countries than hang out at immigration every 90 days.  For those who don't meet the qualifications for the 10 year visa, you simply continue doing what you have been doing to live in Thailand.  

 

 

[pegman]

2 hours ago, jayboy said:

Without commenting on the detail, the government's initiative seems sensible and is consistent with the approach taken by all administrations of different political stripes.

 

What strikes me is not the harshness but the gentle and even generous attitude of the Thai government in face of a widely held view among Thais that the country should not become a mass retirement destination for foreign retirees.Thailand has changed a great deal in recent decades and has become a great deal richer, and one indisputable fact is that it simply doesn't need to be a retirement destination.There is no national policy on foreign retirement, simply a series of ad hoc reactions to the influx.

 

The truth is no country - which doesn't need it - is all  that keen on an influx of foreigners.In Thailand the poorly educated, the beachcomber element, the financially insecure etc are over represented in the expat "community".Many were attracted by the sex, sea, cheap booze life.Thailand does not on the whole attract well educated, prosperous middle class groups as do France, Canada,Singapore etc.Of course there are some but not many - often people who worked for MNC s and stayed on.

 

It is for example absurd for a Brit who primarily relies on his state pension (or even a Brit whose state pension is a key part of his income) to think of retiring in Thailand.The problems of health insurance cannot be wished away by the elderly and the NHS may well not be the safety net some had assumed.The figure of Bt 100,000 per month seems very reasonable though my comment is that it should be the absolute minimum.Double would be better.

 

All of this has been coming for a long time.I think it would be wise to anticipate a greater focus by the government on the type of foreigner who is most welcome.It's not just about money: I suspect those contributing to a more vibrant society will be welcomed - artists, technology experts,professionals etc - but these are of course working categories.Rich retiress will always find a niche.The Thai Elite programme is of course a little absurd but it provides clues on government thinking.I have genuine compassion for those foreigners with Thai families who have few options.I hope they can be looked after but it's reasonable a line be drawn in the sand for newcomers

Don't worry buddy, the nationalists will be coming for you one day too.

[phuketrichard]

4 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

 

Well, the advantage for me as well as others, is I have the monthly income and health insurance.  I already avoid the non-sensical 90 day reporting because I rather take trips to different countries than hang out at immigration every 90 days.  For those who don't meet the qualifications for the 10 year visa, you simply continue doing what you have been doing to live in Thailand.  

 

 

ok,   so what is the advantage?  except you wont need spend a little time at immigration once a year??

<deleted>

Edited November 24, 2016 by metisdead
Profane acronym removed.

[buick]

i never really understood the practicality of the non imm O-A (muli entry) obtained in USA.  you are retiring to thailand but the visa is only valid for a year, although you can go two years if you leave and come back right before it expires.  then you have to go back to your home country to get another one ?  if you retire at 50, you have to go back to your home country every two years for 30+ years ? you don't have a house, a car, etc...  that is a long expensive journey to get another two year retirement visa (thai elite sounds alot better).  when people talk about 'getting a proper visa', the current O-A seems rather 'improper' for retiree.