Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[Momofarang]

This is interesting! I was looking for info on PR posibilities based on marriage and I stumbled on this post dated November 5:

 

Fascinating, isn't ....

[newnative]

25 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

Seems like you and new native seem to be trying to bully your point of view on the thread.  Good luck with that.  

Not trying to bully anybody.  Just trying to be a voice of reason amid an awful lot hysterical mostly untrue or speculative postings--including some of yours.  Especially distasteful and scaremongering was the posting about 'thinning the herd'.   Year after year thousands of us do our 1 year extensions with the same income/bank requirements as the year before.  And, the year before that.  And, the year before that, etc.  Hard to thin the herd that way.  What we know as FACTS: 1. There is a new 10 year visa with certain requirements that will only be available in 14 countries.   2.  The new 10 year visa has nothing to do with the current 1 year retirement extension, which remains in place with the same income or bank balance requirements as before.   If you use the 1 year extension, as several have said, just keep using it.  End of story.  But, permission is granted to continue the intense hand-wringing for those who enjoy torturing themselves needlessly and endlessly despite the facts.  And, a big yaHOO to y'all!

[rabas]

58 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

This is interesting! I was looking for info on PR posibilities based on marriage and I stumbled on this post dated November 5:

 

Fascinating, isn't ....

That is errie, especially since it was posted on November 7.

 

But, it's now the level of some friend of some poster said some official said. Still, might want to ask him where the SET will close next month.

 

Good work though.

Edited November 26, 2016 by rabas

[brewsterbudgen]

2 hours ago, xng said:

 

There is a world of difference between 1 year retirement visa and 1 month tourist visa.

 

It's most likely that the 1 year visa will extend for many years (10 years or more) so they are considered foreign resident whereas tourist visa of 1 month are temporary (they only stay for a much shorter time) and it brings a lot more money into Thailand (eg. Chinese tourists buying stuff) than retirees in the same amount of time.

 

 

Correct.  Which is why your comment about "too many foreigners coming" was inaccurate, irrelavent and xenophobic.

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

67 pages of speculation on Regulations that haven't even been drafted yet let alone gazetted.

Anybody who thinks anything will be implemented by December 1st this year is ting tong and does not understand The Process.

Do police orders get gazetted? They aren't changing the immigration act AFAIK, it's just new orders.

[pegman]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Not trying to bully anybody.  Just trying to be a voice of reason amid an awful lot hysterical mostly untrue or speculative postings--including some of yours.  Especially distasteful and scaremongering was the posting about 'thinning the herd'.   Year after year thousands of us do our 1 year extensions with the same income/bank requirements as the year before.  And, the year before that.  And, the year before that, etc.  Hard to thin the herd that way.  What we know as FACTS: 1. There is a new 10 year visa with certain requirements that will only be available in 14 countries.   2.  The new 10 year visa has nothing to do with the current 1 year retirement extension, which remains in place with the same income or bank balance requirements as before.   If you use the 1 year extension, as several have said, just keep using it.  End of story.  But, permission is granted to continue the intense hand-wringing for those who enjoy torturing themselves needlessly and endlessly despite the facts.  And, a big yaHOO to y'all!

Sorry I was off here for over a day, could you kindly provide a link to these FACTS please?

[Evilbaz]

6 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Do police orders get gazetted? They aren't changing the immigration act AFAIK, it's just new orders.

 

Sure do ...

[pegman]

5 hours ago, newnative said:

What's not to know?  There has been no announcement that the one year extension is going away--and there would have been if it was.  A poster was at Jomtien Immigration the other day and asked about it--and was told nothing has changed with it and it is still used.  Yes, you sometimes get different information when you ask 2 Thais the same question but in this case, with a question about extensions  that they do all the time, I think the correct information was received.  The poster wasn't asking a complex, thorny visa question.  The 10 year visa for only 14 countries is clearly just another visa product CHOICE--and a very limited one.  Why would anyone think it would change one year visa extensions on a visa that has already been granted?

It may be helpfull if someone going to Jomtien Soi 5 asked one of the Farang volunteers  there what they know as they would certainly have a personal interest in the answer.

[Thaidream]

I believe once a change in a law is made and passed it goes to the Department of the Government that has jurisdiction to discuss implementation and rules. I am sure this would involve meetings with all the departments that have to carry out the implementation- Ministry of Foreign Affairs who handles Visas and the Ministry of Interior who oversees the Police and down to Immigration itself.

In my opinion- some of the things that have to be worked out is notifying the Embassies/Consulates of the criteria for issuance of Visa- checking income; insurance etc.; whether one can convert  to a new long stay Visa/Extension within Thailand or do you have to get the Visa only from an Embassy in your home country; also, will it actually replace the current O-A Visa or will it be just another type of O-A Visa with longer validity.

 

I believe once all the questions are answered- a new police order is written superseding the prior police orders and as part of the new order- current extensions based upon retirement would normally be grandfathered at the level of finacials/documentation in effect at that time. However, if one breaks the chain of  extensions the new requirements come into force. In my opinion this would only need to be stated if the 5 year OA replaces the old  1 year OA.

 

In my opinion the worst case scenario that may occur is the new Visa replaces the old  OA and thus new retirees would have to meet the new requirements. As I mentioned, I do believe those already on a current 1 year retirement extension would be grandfathered. Am I 100% sure- no- nothing is 100% but there is past precedent for this when other changes have occurred.  If people are interested they can pull the Police Orders and verify the grandfathered amounts. In addition, those on marriage extensions would not be affected at all as the proposal involves Long Stay for retirement. Also , a person  on a current retirement extension can convert to a marriage extension and many married retired who do not have the financials for the retirement extension do use the married extension.

[smutcakes]

The only thing i have learnt from this thread is the alarming amount of farangs living here without a pot to piss in. For some reason many of them seem to have the notion that Thailand owes them some sort of gratitude to. Its very odd.

[nasa123]

On 22.11.2016 at 6:14 PM, Crossy said:

It would be really nice to only have to visit immigration every 5 years, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

Are they just going to "announce" the ThailandElite scheme?

 

And Phuket Immigration tell in the News paper maybe every most take a trip out from Thailand and make a new Vise, This was they writhing from Immigration in Phuket : It also has yet to be made clear whether foreigners already staying in the country on the existing one-year “retirement O-A” visa would be able to apply to stay in the Kingdom under the new visa rules without leaving the country.
http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-immigration-in-the-dark-over-new-10-year-visa-60012.php#5g9IXZZqKds3Ab3R.97

[nasa123]

On 22.11.2016 at 6:16 PM, Jingthing said:

It would be NIGHTMARE news for a large portion of us, if this will be the only option and the current one year extensions with the current financial requirement levels are phased out. 

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/business/2016/11/22/govt-approves-10-year-visas-foreigners-50/

Applicants must either earn a monthly salary of at least 100,000 baht or have more than 3 million baht in their bank account, which cannot be withdrawn within the first year after receiving the visa. They must also have health insurance that covers hospital stays and provides at least USD$10,000 in annual coverage.

And Phuket Immigration tell in the News paper maybe every most take a trip out from Thailand and make a new Vise, This was they writhing from Immigration in Phuket : It also has yet to be made clear whether foreigners already staying in the country on the existing one-year “retirement O-A” visa would be able to apply to stay in the Kingdom under the new visa rules without leaving the country.
http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-immigration-in-the-dark-over-new-10-year-visa-60012.php#5g9IXZZqKds3Ab3R.97

[Thaiwrath]

29 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

The only thing i have learnt from this thread is the alarming amount of farangs living here without a pot to piss in. For some reason many of them seem to have the notion that Thailand owes them some sort of gratitude to. Its very odd.

 

There are probably a lot of people here having a decent life on less than your self professed wealth.

Most probably have a better life and better attitude than yourself.

[pattayalover]

now I need to look for a job in Thailand. would be easier to get a work permit than having 3 million baht here.

they think they will get rich retired only. 555, rich go to Monaco. certainly not Thailand.

[dick dasterdly]

15 hours ago, digibum said:

 

Actually, most wealthy people control their spending and put what they save in income producing assets like real estate, bonds, etc.  

 

People who aren't wealthy do things like consider their car or motorcycle as an asset (it's a depreciating asset that will eventually have a value of $0) or plunk down 100% cash to purchase a home which is generating no revenue and while it can appreciate the appreciation can only be realized when you sell it (and if you were to sell it you would have no place to live).  

 

So many people would be so much better off buying a piece of real estate back in their home country and renting it out than using all of their savings to purchase a plot of land in Thailand that generates zero income.  

 

I mean, take someone who has purchased a home in Issan for $50K USD cash.  They could have used that as a down payment on a $250,000 home back in their own country and when all is said and done, after paying for property management, capex, maintenance, mortgage, etc, they should be able to realize at least $250 a month in profit.  And because they have a property manager, all they have to do is sit back and collect the checks.  

 

Over time, rent increases kick in and that $250 becomes $275 and then $300 and so on because most of your big costs like the mortgage are fixed costs so most of the rental increase falls right through to the bottom line.  

 

I know $250 doesn't seem like a lot but, unfortunately, wealth is accumulated over time and retirees don't have that luxury.  But $250 a month is better than $0 a month plowing that money into a piece of land that generates nothing.  

 

I know, but I own my own home and can just live out my days . . . blah, blah, blah. . . well, the truth is you can't afford even that lifestyle.  Yes, you can plow the cash into buying a house because you've probably already made a lifetime of other bad financial decisions if you're at the retirement finish line and relying 100% on government checks the truth of the matter is you need income more than you need the ideal lifestyle.  

 

People who aren't wealthy also do things like ignore the fact that they are receiving retirement benefits in a mature economy with a low growth rate and trying to live in a country with a high growth rate (though Thailand has shot themselves in the foot as of late which has put a damper on their GDP growth).  The rate of inflation in the high growth economy will surely outpace the cost of living increases that they receive in a low growth rate economy thus eventually the gap will increase to a point where they can no longer afford to live in the high growth rate economy.  

 

Wealthy people plan for the future.  People who don't become wealthy prefer to be victims.  

 

I used to rent out a house back in the UK - but too many bad experiences (not paying rent/badly damaging property etc. etc.) that eventually resulted in the decision that it was not worth the stress.

 

Consequently, I always warn people thinking of renting out a house nowadays to think twice.  Sometimes it works out - but sometimes it doesn't.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

The only thing i have learnt from this thread is the alarming amount of farangs living here without a pot to piss in. For some reason many of them seem to have the notion that Thailand owes them some sort of gratitude to. Its very odd.

 

I don't find that alarming at all. I find it alarming how many affluent members on huge budgets chose to retire in Thailand. If this new visa replaces the old system (note: I don't think it will), these expats with more money than they need will be very lonely with few people they can show off to.

[smutcakes]

5 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't find that alarming at all. I find it alarming how many affluent members on huge budgets chose to retire in Thailand. If this new visa replaces the old system (note: I don't think it will), these expats with more money than they need will be very lonely with few people they can show off to.

 

Retiring in Thailand and having the ability to show 3 million baht in capital and having health insurance is not affluent. 

[i claudius]

5 hours ago, smutcakes said:

The only thing i have learnt from this thread is the alarming amount of farangs living here without a pot to piss in. For some reason many of them seem to have the notion that Thailand owes them some sort of gratitude to. Its very odd.

 

Well i do have a pot to piss in but no way am i going to put 3 mill of that pot in a Thai bank account and tie it up for years , also at my age i cannot get health insurance , another thing i do not get 100,000 baht a month , but do live a comfortable life in a nice house with a car and all the comforts for a good bit less than that . so  i would have to be kicked out ,leaving my wife of 23 years and our son . i will close the door on the way out

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Retiring in Thailand and having the ability to show 3 million baht in capital and having health insurance is not affluent. 

Yeah, not very affluent, but who wants to lock up 1.5 million baht indefinitely? Or even 3 million baht if you don't need the half for the limited number of APPROVED spending reasons for it. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, smutcakes said:

The only thing i have learnt from this thread is the alarming amount of farangs living here without a pot to piss in. For some reason many of them seem to have the notion that Thailand owes them some sort of gratitude to. Its very odd.

Well, I've got a very lovely pot to piss in but can't meet these new income levels, if it turns out I need to. I could have done the bank thing when I first moved here before I bought a home but frankly looking at the terms, I would have rejected it then as well, considering the LOCK UP rules and also the need to top up after 5 years back to 3 million. 

[mcfish]

Yeah, not very affluent, but who wants to lock up 1.5 million baht indefinitely? Or even 3 million baht if you don't need the half for the limited number of APPROVED spending reasons for it. 

Dude just ignore it, this optional visa was never meant for you

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, mcfish said:

Dude just ignore it, this optional visa was never meant for you

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk
 

I certainly hope not!

So you're the big expert now because you asked a provincial officer one question about a change policy that isn't even finished yet. Sure, thing, mate, bask in it!

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[JLCrab]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Retiring in Thailand and having the ability to show 3 million baht in capital and having health insurance is not affluent. 

Effluent?

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Retiring in Thailand and having the ability to show 3 million baht in capital and having health insurance is not affluent. 

Quite, although many came here with more and find themselves with less now.... and its all gone into the Thai economy.

 

Having said this, I also know that many (very wealthy) Westerners who have worked in Singapore for years think of Phuket as a great retirement destination.

 

Some change their mind after a few years whilst others are quite happy living here and are wealthy enough to have no/few concerns about changes in visas.

[Jingthing]

Yeah as people age they often SPEND DOWN, which is perfectly fine as long as they don't spend down to nothing while still alive. So I see this offer as more appealing to NEW potential retired expats rather than long term ones. 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Jingthing

[jadee]

Is this new 10-year visa going to replace the current 1-year O visas or will expats still be able to do the 1-year retirement visas?

[rabas]

43 minutes ago, jadee said:

Is this new 10-year visa going to replace the current 1-year O visas or will expats still be able to do the 1-year retirement visas?

 

Bingo. I  said earlier that the most important thing to understand going forward is the difference between type O and type OA as it stands today.

 

Type O (which means other) is the traditional visa for all non specific non-immigrant purposes which has included marriage and retirment (still does, in some places).

 

Type O-A was introduced later, though I'm not sure when.

 

To understand 'globally' you need to read and understand what they are saying in different locations like Thailand, Singapore, and elsewhere like Russia.

 

1. Thai Immigation Visa page.
http://www.thaiimmigration.net/thai-retirement-visa.html

 

2. Russian (or other loso) Thai Embassy Visa page.
   http://en.thaiembassymoscow.com/ (you must select visas under Consular info

(here are the basics)

REQUIREMENT
This type of visa is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom for the following purposes:

    to perform official duties (Category "F")
[skip]
    to conduct scientific research or training or teaching in a research institute (Category "RS")
    to undertake skilled work or to work as an expert or specialist (Category "EX")
    other activities (Category "O") as follows:
    to stay with the family, to perfrom duties for the state enterprise or social welfare organizations, to stay after retirement for the elderly, to receive medical treatment, to be a sport coach as required by Thai Government, to be a contestant or witness for the judicial process.

3. Singapore Thai Embassy Visa pages.
http://www.thaiembassy.sg/non-immigrant-visa-o-a-long-stay
http://www.thaiembassy.sg/non-immigrant-visa-o-thai-spouse

 

Note the difference in Singapore retirement and marriage (OA and O)

I did not see  a way to a general purpose type O from Singapore from the website.
That does not mean they will not issue them.

 

 

[whitemouse]

27 minutes ago, jadee said:

Is this new 10-year visa going to replace the current 1-year O visas or will expats still be able to do the 1-year retirement visas?

 

No one knows, and that"s what all the fuss is about. As a bonus we get to learn how rich some people are. 

 

About the new 10 yr visa.. I too hope it will not replace nor affect the current 1 yr extension requirements, I would lose all my friends in Pattaya if the new visa would be forced to all. It would mean mass exodus, and worse, since many have nowhere to return to. 

 

Lets say this 10 yr visa will be completely new thing, and has nothing to do with current extensions. What is the point of new 10 yr visa then? All the 'rich' nations it covers are already covered by current retirement extension scheme, why have it? Why have 2 parallel retirement schemes? I tend to think the new 10 yr system will replace current scheme, and the best we can hope for is grandfathering in all people who are currently on 1 yr extension, and rules  for them will not change. But it seems the new 10 yr visa will be the only option for retirement soon, otherwise what is the poi t of the new visa.

 

The 3 Mil is way to high for what Thailand offers, but true nail in coffin is the mandatory insurance, it just can't be done for people over certain age. I doubt Thailand wants to get rid of anybody, they simply don't know what they're doing. The Multiple Entry Tourist Visa showed us that, it is nearly impossible to get METV,  I come here every winter for 6 months, visa is good for 6 months, yet I need to show the embassy a letter from my employer lol. Do they think people who spend 6 months out of the year in Thailand have an employer? It's not good enough to have the money in the bank, no no, you need to be employed lol. And after the METV was introduced, no more triple entry visa. 

 

Thailand wants wealthier visitors and residents, but what Thailand fails to understand is that it is in no position to choose. I don't think Thai bureaucracy has a clue what their country is about compared to rest of the world. I doubt they travel, and they have no interest in anything beyond their borders. All they see is high tourist numbers, and somehow they have got into their heads this is the best place on Earth. It isn't. 

 

I'm in the camp that the 10 yr visa will replace the current 1 yr extension, hopefully it won't affect current retirees. 

 

[trainman34014]

9 hours ago, Evilbaz said:

67 pages of speculation on Regulations that haven't even been drafted yet let alone gazetted.

Anybody who thinks anything will be implemented by December 1st this year is ting tong and does not understand The Process.

 

 

Certainly don't understand 'Thai process' for sure !

[rabas]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

3 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

Retiring in Thailand and having the ability to show 3 million baht in capital and having health insurance is not affluent. 

Effluent?

No thanks, Im fluent