chiang mai 2016 vs. chiang mai 2002-which do you like better?

[kharmabum]

the first time i came to chiang mai was in 2002.  there was one starbucks(night bizaar), 1 shopping mall(KSK), at least 15 used bookstores, nimaan was undeveloped and a decade away from becoming trendy, lots of guest houses offered fan rooms for under 200 baht a night, AC for 300, the best burger in town was the easy diner, the best breakfast was mango tree,  and the best bars were the chiang mai saloon(lacroix) and the rasta cafe(near where Zoe is now).  visa runs were easy.  low season was a ghost town.  high season backpackers flocked to the city.  back then, whenever you met an old farang he was world wise, eccentric and had a unique story to tell.

 

the last time i was in chiang mai was 2 months ago.  there were too many starbucks and shopping malls to count.  condos were going up everywhere.  The AC room i used to pay 300 a night to stay now costs 700(goes up to 900 in december), but wierdly, the cost to stay 3 months is the same(6000 per month).  the best burger is now dukes. bookstores are disappearing.  low season and high season both are over run with chinese group tours.  visa runners are no more.  the new generation of backpackers are only there to get a selfie at tapae gate to put on facebook and then blog about how fascinating they are.  and all the old farang meet at starbucks at the shopping mall to complain about how the backpackers and chinese tourists are ruining the place and how they wish only people with means and pensions be allowed through the gates of the walled city.

  

It's no contest.  in my humble opinion chiang mai was WAY better in 2002.   i don't think i'll be coming back. but i sincerely  thank the greatest town that ever was for the memories.

Edited November 23, 2016 by kharmabum

[godblessemall]

Started visiting Chiangmai in 1989 and it was even better then.

First Tuk-Tuks only just arriving. In the old city many little sois had earthenware water pots with a coconut ladle outside many houses on special stands for passersby to drink from. No Starbucks. No Pizza Company (just Pizza Hut). Three Tantraphan stores. No Gard Suan Gaew. Lai Thai guest house just opened (very nice). Nimanhemun area completely undeveloped and had something called 'The Housewives Club"  

Was told by Thai men that to be able to claim to have visited ChiangMai (for Thais, not really farangs) one had to have done three things....1. eat Kao Soi (egg noodle curry soup) (delicious); 2. visit the temple on Doi Suthep (still popular and worth it); 3. visit (and partake of) Kampang Din.... Kampang Din means earth wall and refers to the old walls of the ancient city which were brick and earth construction. I know they are all about and in ruins in many parts of CM, but they were actually referring to only one place, the road beside the night market still called kampangdin road, particularly  the part South of the Imperial Mae Ping hotel, which at that time was still home to many brothels. (as we know Thai men when given the opportunity to travel away from home often enjoy the local delights on offer, and even if not single, once more than 50 km. from home consider themselves single again.)

Chiangmai is such an easy town to learn ones way about, because of the square old city and its contra-rotating traffic flow, Thapae gate/road, Narawat bridge, Ping river etc.

Chiangmai in the '90's was full of backpackers and trekking agencies with many hill=tribes still undeveloped to visit. In 1990 there was still only one real secondhand bookshop, right beside John's Place, which was still the biggest Go-Go bar then.

 

I still like to visit Changer's, but it isn't the 'Flower of the North' it was. Then again, change is the only thing one can guarantee in this world. We wear this body like a suit of armour, and peer out of it through two holes at the world around us, not feeling that we inside have changed with time, but those outside looking at us know different.

 

I would still rather live in CM than BKK given the choice.... how about you?

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by godblessemall
spelling

[scd]

A poor effort at a troll even by TV standards

[davehowden]

3 hours ago, scd said:

A poor effort at a troll even by TV standards

 

"In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional ..."

 

Which part/s of the OP do you consider trolling?

[jobin]

Come on Dave.  Obviously the OP is upsetting many folks with comments about 'Old Chiang Mai' because simply, many folks were not here during CM's Golden Days.  Now all we have is the 'Current Daze'.  Whether OP is a 'troll' is unclear.

 

Fact is, IMO, hardly anyplace in this wide world has gained an improvement over the past 25 years.  Population growth, globalization, internet dependency, uncontrolled vehicle proliferation, various wars and migrant refugees, massive environmental contamination, mindless religion beliefs ...all contribute to the current world wide, depressing and ugly, situation.  But here is the sad part: not one of us is going back.

[godblessemall]

What!! You mean the actions of the white man, the empire builders, the civilizers did not work! They didn't improve the lot of those savage natives by dragging and forcing (at the point of a bayonet) them to emulate the high society. industry and education of the first world! Why is the world going backwards in quality of life and consuming everything in its path? I think we might have been better off without the industrial revolution.

 

[mania]

I did not come till 2007

Stayed full time from 2012 till this past July

Just came back due to a family illness/death

 

I would say I liked it much better from 2007

all the way till say 2 years ago. But ...for us we feel it  lost its shine not so much  due to progress,

as these things increase convenience & yet the village life was the same out of town.

 

We left due to other changes we saw but infrastructure progress was not a reason.

Have to say during this last month return here we feel glad we made the change when we did.

 

Still love it here of course due to family but not the other things

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by mania

[ramrod711]

I came in 2005, very little traffic in town, the "super highway" was not finished, nobody paid for their groceries with a credit or debit card. Carrefour sold quality bread, there were trivia nights at many bars and you could have a good natured discussion with a song taew driver about the cost of a trip. I rented a 3 bedroom 2 story house in the old city (near the park) foe 8,000 baht per month and people were not obsessed with money. It's still a good place to live, but it isn't what it was, no place is I suppose.

[kharmabum]

@godblessemall   of course i prefer CM to the nightmare that is bangkok.  i wish i saw it in 1989.  i love seeing old pictures of the city.  threre is a map of old CM in the health food restaurant dada cafe that shows huey kaew road as "elephant trail" connecting the old city to the mountain and doi suthep.

 

@jobin  sadly, what you say is true.  every place is worse now than it was 25 years ago.  not just chiang mai.  but i don't care if most places go to pot, only select places where i have spent time being happy and living in the moment as opposed to being a robot in a trance.  i suppose it's even worse for people who lament the downfall of places like ko phangyang, samui, samet, etc...  those places truly were paradise on earth, and now they are garbage dumps w/ sea view..

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by kharmabum

[davehowden]

1 hour ago, godblessemall said:

What!! You mean the actions of the white man, the empire builders, the civilizers did not work! They didn't improve the lot of those savage natives by dragging and forcing (at the point of a bayonet) them to emulate the high society. industry and education of the first world! Why is the world going backwards in quality of life and consuming everything in its path? I think we might have been better off without the industrial revolution.

 

Certainly better off without the internet which brings us daily the woes of the World, yet i cannot turn it off, 555.

[LannaGuy]

My first visit was around 2003 and I loved it then without all this traffic, condos and shopping malls everywhere. I'm still here having moved here permanently in 2008 and still love it but not as much but then so many things have changed. Traffic the worst of all.

[daveAustin]

6 hours ago, scd said:

A poor effort at a troll even by TV standards

 

The only troll post in this thread so far is yours.

 

Op, I thoroughly agree. Was first there in the 1990s, permanently around the time you were when the expat populace was in the late hundreds, low thousands. The whole country has changed of course - was a lot cheaper + better exchange rates, less developed, more easy going. Westernisation and the net have made big differences, but with CM in particular, it just grew really quickly... and that stoopid "live like a king for $1k a month" article didn't help! 

 

Having said that, believe CM is still a special place.

[elektrified]

54 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

I came in 2005, very little traffic in town, the "super highway" was not finished, nobody paid for their groceries with a credit or debit card. Carrefour sold quality bread, there were trivia nights at many bars and you could have a good natured discussion with a song taew driver about the cost of a trip. I rented a 3 bedroom 2 story house in the old city (near the park) foe 8,000 baht per month and people were not obsessed with money. It's still a good place to live, but it isn't what it was, no place is I suppose.

That is false.

[hml367]

1 hour ago, ramrod711 said:

I came in 2005, very little traffic in town, the "super highway" was not finished, nobody paid for their groceries with a credit or debit card. Carrefour sold quality bread, there were trivia nights at many bars and you could have a good natured discussion with a song taew driver about the cost of a trip. I rented a 3 bedroom 2 story house in the old city (near the park) foe 8,000 baht per month and people were not obsessed with money. It's still a good place to live, but it isn't what it was, no place is I suppose.

 

 

Superhighway to Amari

[hml367]

Huay Keaw Road towards Doi Suthep

[evenstevens]

Well this old champ is still enjoying , C/mai,  after 15 yrs, plus

only last Saturday nite , me and my old shelia attended ,  a   wonderful Beautiful Maerimite Birthday  Party, out in Beverly  Hills

all ages and nationalities,from all walks of life attended, and every one had a super time

#really its down to,  what you make of it,  not the changes ( good or bad)that have been  made since 2002,#

its  a Deep Purple  good morning to all

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by evenstevens

[bojo]

I think the biggest difference in the city; which for me is a  'feel good factor',  is that alot of the old architecture is hidden/overshadowed by concrete.

Guess those that saw it for the way it was are privileged.............

[Foxy52]

1978 me; the traffic was a nightmare - no ring roads and bloody elephants waddling about didn't help. First night here, my mate and I were dragged off to a child brothel. Much prefer the CM of today,. Even if it is a bit more expensive, at east the grinding poverty seems to be largely a thing of the past

 

[sfokevin]

[heybruce]

Two problems with the question:

 

1.  People always tend to view the past through rose-colored glasses.

2.  14 years ago people were 14 years younger, and most TV posters would love to subtract some years.

[1FinickyOne]

I was first in CM in 1974... I don't think those days will return... but then, the world population has not remained stable either... sure, I miss some of the things you mention... but for a long time there was nothing better than a nescafe instant either... life goes on - places get developed. 

[ramrod711]

5 hours ago, elektrified said:

That is false.

 

I'm not sure what you mean, but when I go to supermarkets now, especially BigC and Tops it seems everyone including Thai people are paying with cards. I don't recall having to wait in line while everyone in front of me went through the rigmarole of signing a slip for their 150 baht purchase, but maybe you're right. Feeling better now?

[ramrod711]

5 hours ago, hml367 said:

 

 

Superhighway to Amari

In 2005 the overpasses on the super highway were not finished. If you recall, one of the contractors had apparently bid way too low and could not complete the project and another contractor took over. I walked the highway from Huay Kaew to Mahidol road at the time, trust me I would have noticed two completed overpasses.

[masuk]

6 hours ago, daveAustin said:

 

The only troll post in this thread so far is yours.

 

Op, I thoroughly agree. Was first there in the 1990s, permanently around the time you were when the expat populace was in the late hundreds, low thousands. The whole country has changed of course - was a lot cheaper + better exchange rates, less developed, more easy going. Westernisation and the net have made big differences, but with CM in particular, it just grew really quickly... and that stoopid "live like a king for $1k a month" article didn't help! 

 

Having said that, believe CM is still a special place.

Agreed:   It is a pleasant place, in spite of the almost total neglect of pedestrian's requirement.  Footpaths are broken and crumbling, the driveways are often filled with mud when it rains.  Little or no repair work is done by the countless building projects when they wreck a kerb.  The footpaths are also convenient parking places for motor bikes/scooters, forcing folk onto the roads.

 

Last year I was told there were over 250 condominium buildings under construction.    I've had two under construction outside my kitchen window for the past 18 months.   

 

The air quality is bad much of the year now;  this has a lot to do with the hundreds of smoking song taews cruising around the city.   There appears to be no limits on how much smoke they can pour out.

 

CM is a pleasant city, but not helped by inertia and lack of interest in  air quality.

[Paul Catton]

Pre 2002 was even better IMO, can we reset the "benchmark year" for an opinion of the perceived degradation of Chiang Mai.

 

[isanbirder]

In 1987it was even better, but then I always think places are worse when I revisit them.  I've never yet found one which has improved.

 

PS. I'm getting older too.  I was better in 1987.

[hml367]

53 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

In 2005 the overpasses on the super highway were not finished. If you recall, one of the contractors had apparently bid way too low and could not complete the project and another contractor took over. I walked the highway from Huay Kaew to Mahidol road at the time, trust me I would have noticed two completed overpasses.

 

What does that have to do with any of this and the picture?

[elektrified]

59 minutes ago, ramrod711 said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean, but when I go to supermarkets now, especially BigC and Tops it seems everyone including Thai people are paying with cards. I don't recall having to wait in line while everyone in front of me went through the rigmarole of signing a slip for their 150 baht purchase, but maybe you're right. Feeling better now?

"Thai people" were absolutely paying for purchases with credit cards in 2005 and for a good number of years prior.

[Paul Catton]

12 minutes ago, elektrified said:

"Thai people" were absolutely paying for purchases with credit cards in 2005 and for a good number of years prior.

The poster is probably witnessing EFTPOS transactions not your interepretation.

Always give latitude.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Paul Catton
Disclaimer

[SymS]

I came here in 2001 first. Now I live in the outskirts of Chiang Mai, and avoid going to the city center, shopping centers, and so on as much as possible.