Trump aides ask of Russian meddling: Does it matter?

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, Pimay1 said:

Podesta is a sore loser just like Michelle. The insinuation is just what it is, an insinuation.

 

I'm not aware that MO was a candidate in the election.

 

That battle has yet to be fought.

 

She is one of those people who, despite her protestations, will have:

 

"greatness thrust upon 'em",  William Shakespeare.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Enoon

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Assange is hardly a credible source.  He's had an axe to grind with the West since he was young.  Extremely biased.  Wikileaks publishing private details on women in Turkey was the last straw for me.  An absolutely terrible thing to do.  No conscience and it had nothing to do with propagating the truth.  Nor does mass releases of unverified data.

 

It's been proven Russia did the hacking.  No denying it.  As for Trump, he's been cozying up to Russia for a long, long time.  Lots of vested interests. 

 

I missed that sorry - where it has been conclusively proved that Russia did the hacking. Could you provide links to that please?

 

Saw a historian from the University of Cork on TV this morning. He was also apparently unaware of this proof. 

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, atyclb said:

i  read the nyt article.  the emails are in the court of public opinion, not in a USA court of law where there are rules about evidence.  btw whats your opinion on snowden revealing governments collecting mass data which they can use against people sometime in the future and pseudo courts aka fisa courts (not sure if spelled right)  the us government is already crippling the constitution and bill of rights but some people feel its important to protect criminal activities of politicians and those working for/with them.

 

it would be nice to say the controlling interest of nyt is not a donor to the democratic party/obama and just might be biased and of course news media outlets are not biased or political 

How they got to the court of public opinion is now a matter with the US court of law.  This won't stop and it's being pursued aggressively. 

 

Sorry, but I think Snowden is a traitor.  Revealing info that potentially could put others at risk is wrong.  And that's 100% a violation of the law.  Assange revealing women's private details in Turkey is sick.  He should pay for that.

 

I'd have more respect for Assange if he hacked into Russian and Chinese servers.  At least he wouldn't be so one sided! LOL

 

There are plenty of laws to keep politicians clean.  They're not perfect, but better than going at things illegally.  For better or worse, our laws are the best we have right now.  Where do you stop saying "I can ignore this law because....".  A very slippery slope.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Pimay1 said:

Podesta is a sore loser just like Michelle. The insinuation is just what it is, an insinuation.

What is true is Russia did the hack.  What's not been proven yet is why.  But I think it's pretty obvious it was to have an impact on the elections.  Otherwise, why was the timing so good?  No insinuation.

[craigt3365]

45 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

Is Obama trying to protect his legacy? He is singularly responsible for the weakening of American power on the world stage. But hey lets blame it on the Russians, Not my fault!

 

 

Obama's doing his job.  Protecting American interests.  Same thing any other leader of a country would do in the same situation.

 

Easy to blame the Russians, they did the hack!  Place the blame properly....

[Opl]

The aim of the Russian Presidency has never been to engage in harmonious co-operation with Europe or the United States, but rather to re-establish its legitimacy in building a balance of power, with the central aim of reconstituting Russian power. The fall of USSR for Putin and the Russian people is still painful.  Weakening US democracy ( by hacking) is a priority since Russia is not an economic superpower.  

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Opl

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I missed that sorry - where it has been conclusively proved that Russia did the hacking. Could you provide links to that please?

 

Saw a historian from the University of Cork on TV this morning. He was also apparently unaware of this proof. 

It's all over the news.  But here are 2 sources that are very good:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/dec/01/russia-and-its-influence-presidential-election/

Quote

 

DNC hack

The most concrete example of Russian involvement in the election was the Democratic National Committee email hack. Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., resigned from the DNC chair position because of embarrassing emails revealed in the subsequent dump.

 

The federal intelligence community, as well as private cybersecurity analysts, are confident that Russian actors were behind the hack. The Homeland Security Department and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence issued a joint statement Oct. 7 saying they believed people at the top levels of Russian government directed the attack in an attempt to interfere in the election.

 

Some private security researchers also believe Russians stole and leaked emails from Clinton’s campaign manager John Podesta.

 

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/12/trump-russia-u-s-election/

Quote

All 16 government intelligence agencies and at least three private security firms have independently investigated the security breaches and concluded that the Russian government — in the words of the U.S. Intelligence Community — “directed” the hacking “to interfere with the US election process.”

 

Anybody who denies this just trolling.

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Opl said:

The aim of the Russian Presidency has never been to engage in harmonious co-operation with Europe or the United States, but rather to re-establish its legitimacy in building a balance of power, with the central aim of reconstituting Russian power.

The fall of USSR for Putin and the Russian people is still painful.  

 

Excellent post.  Spot on.  Though many don't seem to understand this.

[Redline]

4 hours ago, jaidam said:

Who to believe? Assange and Wikileaks, who with no political axe to grind, other than their interest in propagating the truth,  claim the Russians had nothing to do with the release of emails and other documents, or the butthurt DNC and their msm lapdogs, who are spitting the dummy after their preferred candidate crashed and burnt? Difficult one.

 

I would like to see Trump cozy up to the Russians more. Not just to rub the lefts nose in it, after the dems left the 2 superpowers on the brink of nuclear armageddon, but also for the sake of easy trade and world peace.

You want a fascist state.  You are not an American I assume.

Another lost soul you are.  Stop reading and watching fake news.  Also, at least attempt to write coherent responses.

Have fun in Russia.  They have some hot girls there

[Redline]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Excellent post.  Spot on.  Though many don't seem to understand this.

That is exactly on point

[Redline]

5 minutes ago, Opl said:

The aim of the Russian Presidency has never been to engage in harmonious co-operation with Europe or the United States, but rather to re-establish its legitimacy in building a balance of power, with the central aim of reconstituting Russian power. The fall of USSR for Putin and the Russian people is still painful.  Weakening US democracy ( by hacking) is a priority since Russia is not an economic superpower.  

 

On point

[Redline]

15 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

How they got to the court of public opinion is now a matter with the US court of law.  This won't stop and it's being pursued aggressively. 

 

Sorry, but I think Snowden is a traitor.  Revealing info that potentially could put others at risk is wrong.  And that's 100% a violation of the law.  Assange revealing women's private details in Turkey is sick.  He should pay for that.

 

I'd have more respect for Assange if he hacked into Russian and Chinese servers.  At least he wouldn't be so one sided! LOL

 

There are plenty of laws to keep politicians clean.  They're not perfect, but better than going at things illegally.  For better or worse, our laws are the best we have right now.  Where do you stop saying "I can ignore this law because....".  A very slippery slope.

I agree

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — Donald Trump's top aides on Sunday said the president-elect isn't ready to accept the finding by intelligence officials that Moscow hacked Democratic emails in a bid to elevate Trump. Even if it's true, they said, Trump still won the White House fair and square.

Dah really???

[Redline]

44 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It isn't so much that he won. He won.

It's that a U.S. president puts more trust in a Russian dictator than the unanimous consensus of his own intelligence agences. He ran on America first. More like Putin first for that traitorous clown. 

 

It will be interesting to see how he can avoid an impeachment attempt and also how he deals with it, considering his obvious dictatorial temperament. 

It's baffling that Americans are taking Russia's side on this.  Every intelligence agency in the US government agrees on this.  Do they think they are all biased?  It doesn't matter who they hacked, it's the fact they did it to influence.  Wikileaks should not have released them until after the election, so they are complicit as well.

[Baerboxer]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It's all over the news.  But here are 2 sources that are very good:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/dec/01/russia-and-its-influence-presidential-election/

 

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/12/trump-russia-u-s-election/

 

Anybody who denies this just trolling.

 

Certainly not trolling. But still see no actual proof - other than quotes that people are confident that it was Russia.

 

And one quote:

"Based on the evidence, it seems highly unlikely that actions by the Russian government contributed in any decisive way to Trump’s win over Clinton'" 

and another:

"Some computer scientists flagged anomalies in the results of several counties that used electronic voting in three swing states — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan — prompting calls for recounts. But claims that Russians are to blame for these vote tally anomalies, through hacking or other means, are baseless." 

 

Both from your second link.

 

The only ones seeming to have suffered are the DNC and Hilary - being exposed as willing to cheat and lie when necessary.

 

Seems that Obama has now joined in and he, Hilary and the DNC want to focus on the hacks and the bogeyman Russia and Putin rather than any mention of the hypocrisy, lies and cheating within their own party which is conveniently ignored.

 

Now if Trump tries to develop better relations with Russia, the Democrats have laid the foundations for attacking him based on this rather than the actual content and context of those future developments.

 

But no one seems to question the character of the Democrats - so presumably they think lying and cheating are O K - oh, but people should always believe them of course. Sorry, once a liar, always a liar.

 

 

 

[Redline]

1 minute ago, elgordo38 said:

Dah really???

Their reality has no relation to truth

[elgordo38]

11 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Excellent post.  Spot on.  Though many don't seem to understand this.

We the seniors of observation as well as age understand. It took me decades of voting and cheering for the incoming and booing the outgoing to fully understand that the political deck was stacked and not in my favor. 

[Redline]

You think Trump and his team tells the truth?  So funny.  Do some research, or just read the headlines.  Every US intelligence agency agrees there was Russian hacking.  And, there are multiple investigations happening as I write this.  Get your head out of that dark place and stop listening to fake news

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, CharlieK said:

Is Obama trying to protect his legacy? He is singularly responsible for the weakening of American power on the world stage. But hey lets blame it on the Russians, Not my fault!

 

 

"Not my fault"?  So now you're talking about Bush? Trump will be a change; he will just deny it happened.

[Redline]

Just now, smotherb said:

"Not my fault"?  So now you're talking about Bush? Trump will be a change; he will just deny it happened.

He will screw everything up, and say it's not true.  It's like the thief caught on camera, but still denies he stole.

[Redline]

5 hours ago, jaidam said:

Are you suggesting that Assange/wikileaks are fabricating documents with the purpose of discrediting the democrat party? Otherwise the inference is that the public do not have the right to know all the dirty shennanigans HRC and cohorts got up to, and should have voted with only the information that the msm wanted the electorate to have(unbelievably biased tosh)

Unbelievably terrifically amazing WOW!  Lock them up!  Get them OUT!  You are regurgitating

[Redline]

5 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

computer-IT experts have already confirmed the validity of wikileaks emails so that is not even a question except for those that have been exposed trying to deflect. it could have been republican or trump emails as well.

Exactly

[Redline]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Putin is a vicious, evil, and aggressive enemy of democracy.

trump is now his poodle. Americans should be disgusted. 

Now the U.S. electors are about to elevate the first American president dictator.

 

God help us. 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/18/politics/john-mccain-russia-hacking/index.html

 

Beyond disgusted.  And, a bit shocked

[Redline]

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

" "This whole thing is a spin job," said Trump's incoming chief of staff, Reince Priebus. "And I think what the Democrats ought to do is look in the mirror and face the reality that they lost the election." "

I for one sure hope the democrats do not do this, hope they learn nothing and lose in 2020 too.

 

For what its worth, how many foreign elections has the USA tried to influence? Hardly have a high horse to be pointing fingers from on this topic.

Wow!  I hope you are not American.  Read the Constitution if you are American.  You put all of your faith in one man's word?  It's called fascism

Edited December 19, 2016 by Redline

[IMA_FARANG]

No real comment here.

But I have some experience in that in my time in the U.S. military and all i can say is that everyone that can hack their potential enemies in other countries, from the U.S. to Russia is and has done it.

If you don't understand that you are foolish.

I know the French, the Israelis, the Chinese, and other "friendly" countries have been caught reading the U.S. government  mail on occassions.

They all do it.

The motto of the NSA is in Latin, "Trust but verify" and that is what they do.

the NSA is the National Security Agency and it is really they and not the CIA who actually runs the intercept business.

The job of the CIA is to gather together and correlate and analyse information  not collect it.

Other agencies do the collection job.

A Superpower can not aford "friends" because a "friend" is someone you may  trust who can betray your secrets.

Like it or not that is reality in the real world.

 

 

 

 

[Wanderer555]

What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?  
(HRC - May 2013)

                                                         

Not a Trump fan, but given Putin's contempt for HRC, it is fair to say that any hacking by the Russians was equally an attempt to destroy Hillary Clinton as it an attempt to support Donald Trump...

This is a point few in the media seem open to addressing.

Cheers!

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, Redline said:

You think Trump and his team tells the truth?  So funny.  Do some research, or just read the headlines.  Every US intelligence agency agrees there was Russian hacking.  And, there are multiple investigations happening as I write this.  Get your head out of that dark place and stop listening to fake news

It's a given there would be spying from Russians and many other nations. It's how that information was USED though that is truly disturbing. The Russians WEAPONIZED it to influence the U.S. election. We'll never know if it made the difference but keep in mind that the MARGINS were not very large in a number of important states, so it MIGHT have. 

[spidermike007]

This behavior on the part of Trump, and his baldfaced loyalty to Russia, at any cost, is dangerous, reckless, lacking in intelligence, and churlish. Though Keith Olbermann is often over the top, there are aspects that I agree with, with regard to his recent meltdown. As quoted:

 

I no longer need to know the precise motives of the NSA director and would be Trump administration apparatchik Michael Rogers when 18 days after the election he said of WikiLeaks and the publishing of the DNC emails quote "There shouldn't be any doubt in anybody's mind this was not something that was done casually. This was not something that was done by chance, this is not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily, this was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect." 

I no longer need to have a diagrammed for me of the actions of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and foreign policy advisor Carter Paige and Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. I no longer need to know who the Russian oligarchs are to whom Rudy Giuliani's company has, on the record, provided quote "image consulting." I no longer need to know why Trump has reportedly begged off his ultra-secret intelligence briefings and I don't need to know if his fawning sycophancy towards Putin is the result of mere manipulation or part of Trump's mental illness. 

All I need to know is: someone approached this so thoroughly with such an unnecessarily broad net that they even tried to hack my email. That vague feeling that the idea of massive computer hacking and propaganda spreading could not really have happened because honestly, you can't really picture it in your mind how it would have happened... that protective layer of healthy skepticism? 

That is gone. This is all real. It has all occurred. And whether Donald Trump knew about it or he did not, whether he can understand it or he's too far gone mentally to appreciate it, it has been accomplished. The Russians got who they wanted to run the United States of America for them as surely as if we were East Germany to their Soviet Union in 1954. As surely as if they had invaded us and placed their own feeble-minded manipulated by flattery satellite dictator in the White House. And in seven weeks we will inaugurate a new President who was not our choice but theirs.

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/12/keith-olbermann-hacked-election-personal

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by spidermike007

[Redline]

7 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

No real comment here.

But I have some experience in that in my time in the U.S. military and all i can say is that everyone that can hack their potential enemies in other countries, from the U.S. to Russia is and has done it.

If you don't understand that you are foolish.

I know the French, the Israelis, the Chinese, and other "friendly" countries have been caught reading the U.S. government  mail on occassions.

They all do it.

The motto of the NSA is in Latin, "Trust but verify" and that is what they do.

the NSA is the National Security Agency and it is really they and not the CIA who actually runs the intercept business.

The job of the CIA is to gather together and correlate and analyse information  not collect it.

Other agencies do the collection job.

A Superpower can not aford "friends" because a "friend" is someone you may  trust who can betray your secrets.

Like it or not that is reality in the real world.

 

 

 

 

Surely, everyone does.  But, the information was released for some reason.  Normally, it is only analyzed, and used as seen appropriate.

[Redline]

2 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

This behavior on the part of Trump, and his baldfaced loyalty to Russia, at any cost, is dangerous, reckless, lacking in intelligence, and churlish. Though Keith Olbermann is often over the top, there are aspects that I agree with, with regard to his recent meltdown. As quoted:

 

I no longer need to know the precise motives of the NSA director and would be Trump administration apparatchik Michael Rogers when 18 days after the election he said of WikiLeaks and the publishing of the DNC emails quote "There shouldn't be any doubt in anybody's mind this was not something that was done casually. This was not something that was done by chance, this is not a target that was selected purely arbitrarily, this was a conscious effort by a nation-state to attempt to achieve a specific effect." 

I no longer need to have a diagrammed for me of the actions of former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort and foreign policy advisor Carter Paige and Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump. 

I no longer need to know who the Russian oligarchs are to whom Rudy Giuliani's company has, on the record, provided quote "image consulting." 

I no longer need to know why Trump has reportedly begged off his ultra-secret intelligence briefings and I don't need to know if his fawning sycophancy towards Putin is the result of mere manipulation or part of Trump's mental illness. 

All I need to know is: someone approached this so thoroughly with such an unnecessarily broad net that they even tried to hack my email. That vague feeling that the idea of massive computer hacking and propaganda spreading could not really have happened because honestly, you can't really picture it in your mind how it would have happened... that protective layer of healthy skepticism? 

That is gone.

This is all real. 

It has all occurred. 

And whether Donald Trump knew about it or he did not, whether he can understand it or he's too far gone mentally to appreciate it, it has been accomplished. 

The Russians got who they wanted to run the United States of America for them as surely as if we were East Germany to their Soviet Union in 1954. As surely as if they had invaded us and placed their own feeble-minded manipulated by flattery satellite dictator in the White House. 

And in seven weeks we will inaugurate a new President who was not our choice but theirs.

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/12/keith-olbermann-hacked-election-personal

 

It's looking that way