Denied the METV-visa, because I'm not employed.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

... younger unemployed people are more likely to be coming here looking for employment. 

 

I would like to see some evidence that Thailand has a major problem with economic migrants from Sweden flocking into their country.

 

What I see happening is rule changes that do not address the problems (real or imagined) they are supposed to solve. Pedophiles, drug traffickers, terrorists, and other unsavory elements are not generally spending six months (or more) continuously in Thailand. If they are, it is purely coincidental, and most (like regular tourists) will be making shorter visits to engage in their illegal activities.

 

I have no doubt that it is true that a few of those here on tourist entries are working, especially teaching English. I agree this is against the regulations, but I question the assumption that it should be a top priority to eliminate native English teaching for less affluent Thais. There is no evidence that further degrading the already deplorable level of English proficiency in Thailand is going to be positive overall.

[Suradit69]

11 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I would like to see some evidence that Thailand has a major problem with economic migrants from Sweden flocking into their country.

 

The written rules do not specify Sweden. They apply to all applicants.

 

Please dismount your high horse.

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Embassies and consulates of every nation apply differing rules depending on their location and the nationality of the applicant.

 

Getting a tourist visa for a Thai national in Bangkok wishing to travel to  the US or EU countries would be quite different from the experience an Australian national in Canberra would have attempting the same thing.

 

Yet hes not talking about different nations.. 

 

The application process for a UK visa for Thai in bangkok, or a Thai in Canberra, or a Filipino in Manila.. are all consistent.. 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If that is the case, then they are also wrong.

 

Commonwealth citizens have a different route /criteria I would expect so its not an apples to apples comparison.

[NoshowJones]

14 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Commonwealth citizens have a different route /criteria I would expect so its not an apples to apples comparison.

Wrong on what? I have made so many posts over the last three days, I would have to be reminded on what post you are referring too.

14 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Commonwealth citizens have a different route /criteria I would expect so its not an apples to apples comparison.

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by possum1931
mistake

[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Embassies and consulates of every nation apply differing rules depending on their location and the nationality of the applicant.

 

Getting a tourist visa for a Thai national in Bangkok wishing to travel to  the US or EU countries would be quite different from the experience an Australian national in Canberra would have attempting the same thing.

Quote

If that is the case, then they are also wrong.

 

Quote

Commonwealth citizens have a different route /criteria I would expect so its not an apples to apples comparison.

 

That series.. The rules for application to the UK are standardized, so should be the same for a Thai applying as it is for a malaysian etc.. 

 

Where there may be differences is where we have bi lateral agreements, Canadians or Australians are ex colonies so there is presumably a different basis of application. However again, the rules in canberra are the same as the rules in sydney.. Theres a fixed standard along with a clear guide of documentation, an appeals process, etc etc

[buick]

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

they replied by email that I could get the METV from them, just write retired on the application and meet the other reqs, including showing finance in the bank.

 

i saw your post about this in the METV thread awhile back.  can you tell us your age ?  under 50/over 50 ?  or did they tell you to write 'retired' w/o you disclosing your age.  i just wonder if age may play a factor.  obviously, different consulates/countries can be a factor.

 

i went on a semi-rant a few weeks ago about the employer letter requirement from LA-USA.  i won't get into it again but suffice to say it seems odd that someone could travel for several months and be employed at the same time.

 

getting an METV does make more sense now given the limit on land border crossings.  if someone is planning to use land borders, it is great.  otherwise, it seems an SETV and visa exempt entries are a better way to go.

Edited January 17, 2017 by buick

[jspill]

Over 2016 I managed 9 months back to back on extended visa exemptions and then got an SETV, so that's a year in Thailand, mostly without even having a visa.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/957999-9-months-of-visa-exemptions-back-to-back-after-2-year-overstay/

 

From my observation being told 'you've reached your limit', as you were, is often completely random and you can safely ignore it. Unless they actually write a note in your passport.

 

Certain things you can also do are:

 

- Avoid Don Meaung airport

- Have 20k THB in cash in a current account ready to withdraw and show as 'proof of funds' (they can walk you to an ATM if you get stopped)

- Have a smartphone with 3G so you can quickly book an onward ticket out of the country on a low cost airline, Airasia/Nokair in 5 minutes if asked for one

- Have some hotel reservations printed out from Booking.com as 'proof of a holiday plan', you can get those without paying, you only pay if you turn up at the hotel. Free cancellation

- Say you have a Thai girlfriend, many get asked this.  Some Thai person somewhere relying on you, possibly later getting married to you and solving the temporary visa issue, can help your case if questioned

- Fly to different countries each time you leave Thailand, avoid repetition. No land borders 

- Spend a few days outside Thailand each time, a mini holiday

- Apply for SETVs at different consulates each time

Edited January 17, 2017 by jspill

[BritTim]

@jspil I agree it is still possible, with sufficient research, inconvenience, expense and a little luck, to spend long periods in Thailand on tourist entries. At a certain point, it becomes too much hassle unless you have quite special reasons for being here instead of somewhere else. The most likely reason why someone really, really wants to be here is a love relationship with someone who needs, for whatever reason, to stay in Thailand. Some may find it worthwhile because they are working and/or have family members here. Making it difficult to stay long-term will drive away many well-heeled snowbirds, and other casual tourists, but why does Thailand want to? I am excluding from my analysis the indigent overstayers because they are not here legally on tourist entries. Immigration never sees them, and they are therefore irrelevant to the question of conditions and restrictions for tourist visas and entries.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jspill said:

Over 2016 I managed 9 months back to back on extended visa exemptions and then got an SETV, so that's a year in Thailand, mostly without even having a visa.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/957999-9-months-of-visa-exemptions-back-to-back-after-2-year-overstay/

 

From my observation being told 'you've reached your limit', as you were, is often completely random and you can safely ignore it. Unless they actually write a note in your passport.

 

Certain things you can also do are:

 

- Avoid Don Meaung airport

- Have 20k THB in cash in a current account ready to withdraw and show as 'proof of funds' (they can walk you to an ATM if you get stopped)

- Have a smartphone with 3G so you can quickly book an onward ticket out of the country on a low cost airline, Airasia/Nokair in 5 minutes if asked for one

- Have some hotel reservations printed out from Booking.com as 'proof of a holiday plan', you can get those without paying, you only pay if you turn up at the hotel. Free cancellation

- Say you have a Thai girlfriend, many get asked this.  Some Thai person somewhere relying on you, possibly later getting married to you and solving the temporary visa issue, can help your case if questioned

- Fly to different countries each time you leave Thailand, avoid repetition. No land borders 

- Spend a few days outside Thailand each time, a mini holiday

- Apply for SETVs at different consulates each time

 

Generally good advice - except the "walk them to an ATM" fantasy, or let them to "purchase a ticket-out" on their phone.  In fact, some targeted for rejection and booted had the money in their pocket - were never asked to show it - didn't know what they were signing in Thai, or what the note in their passport said.   I suggest having the cash or travelers checks and showing it at the first question.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, buick said:

 

i saw your post about this in the METV thread awhile back.  can you tell us your age ?  under 50/over 50 ?  or did they tell you to write 'retired' w/o you disclosing your age.  i just wonder if age may play a factor.  obviously, different consulates/countries can be a factor.

 

i went on a semi-rant a few weeks ago about the employer letter requirement from LA-USA.  i won't get into it again but suffice to say it seems odd that someone could travel for several months and be employed at the same time.

 

 

Re your questions above,, I went back and reviewed my email exchange with the L.A. Consulate. In my message to them, I did not make any indication of my age at all (which is over 50), but I did indicate I had no employer and instead was receiving a government pension (so presumably that was a signal to them that I'm not a youngster anymore).

 

As for their answer to me, here's exactly and entirely what the L.A. Consulate wrote in response to my query:

 

Quote

 

If you do not have an employer, please state in the application form that you are retired and that you are not employed. However, you have to present a copy of your financial statement of at least USD7,000 including other requirements in the list below

http://www.thaiconsulatela.org/service_visa_detail.aspx?link_id=32

 

 

Re your last point, I had exactly the same thinking: In my many years of working full-time, I NEVER EVER would have had sufficient free/vacation time to use a METV to Thailand. It's only now that I'm retired and keeper of my own time that I actually would be able to make use of it for extended travel.

Edited January 17, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thai006]

at savanakhet  dont exepect SETV if you dont have  thai bank account,  air ticket 

[JB300]

 

Re your last point, I had exactly the same thinking: In my many years of working full-time, I NEVER EVER would have had sufficient free/vacation time to use a METV to Thailand. It's only now that I'm retired and keeper of my own time that I actually would be able to make use of it for extended travel.

Possibly it's different as you had a provable income in your government pension whereas the OP only has savings.

Be interesting to hear from anybody who's managed to get an METV on the basis of being retired but wasn't in receipt of a Pension (I.e. Are living on savings or income from property, investments etc...)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, JB300 said:

 

Possibly it's different as you had a provable income in your government pension whereas the OP only has savings.
 

 

 

I asked/offered in my email to them if they'd accept my pension statements or other non-employment monthly income documents as substitutes. And their response was to ignore those offers and just say I'd need to show the minimum $7000 US in the bank and meet the other general requirements in their list.

 

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, jspill said:

Over 2016 I managed 9 months back to back on extended visa exemptions and then got an SETV, so that's a year in Thailand, mostly without even having a visa.

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/957999-9-months-of-visa-exemptions-back-to-back-after-2-year-overstay/

 

From my observation being told 'you've reached your limit', as you were, is often completely random and you can safely ignore it. Unless they actually write a note in your passport.

 

Certain things you can also do are:

 

- Avoid Don Meaung airport

- Have 20k THB in cash in a current account ready to withdraw and show as 'proof of funds' (they can walk you to an ATM if you get stopped)

- Have a smartphone with 3G so you can quickly book an onward ticket out of the country on a low cost airline, Airasia/Nokair in 5 minutes if asked for one

- Have some hotel reservations printed out from Booking.com as 'proof of a holiday plan', you can get those without paying, you only pay if you turn up at the hotel. Free cancellation

- Say you have a Thai girlfriend, many get asked this.  Some Thai person somewhere relying on you, possibly later getting married to you and solving the temporary visa issue, can help your case if questioned

- Fly to different countries each time you leave Thailand, avoid repetition. No land borders 

- Spend a few days outside Thailand each time, a mini holiday

- Apply for SETVs at different consulates each time

 

Reasonably ok advice with a few exceptions

 

Avoid all Airports, I have friends who have been questioned at both,

 

I doubt they are going to let you walk to a ATM, why not just have the 20k in the first place?

 

Same for a low cost ticket, I doubt they are going to wait for you to book one, have it before you enter, arriving without one shows you have no onward depature plans

 

Immigration are not stupid, flying to a different country for just a few days at a time? They are intelligent enough to see through this,

 

There are different (legal) ways to stay here long term on TV's but I am not going to spell them out on here, it amazes me that people openly state on public forums how they do it, where do you think Immigration get their ideas from?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2017 by darrendsd

[chenierkmer]

 
I asked/offered in my email to them if they'd accept my pension statements or other non-employment monthly income documents as substitutes. And their response was to ignore those offers and just say I'd need to show the minimum $7000 US in the bank and meet the other general requirements in their list.
 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[thetruth revealer]

20 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Sorry but that is the rules.

For the METV you need to be employed according to their rules.

It is stupid, but since when did any government have to be logical?

You can get a Single Entry Tourist Visa (SETV) for a 60 day entry, then extend it at immigratio for 30 days at a 1900 fee.

That will give you 90 days stay.

Then go to a neighboring country....Penang Malaysia or Savanakhet, Laos are possible choices and get a 2nd SETV from them.

Then re-enter Thailand by air and do the SETV extension thing again.

That can give you the total of 18o days stay in Thailand.

As the post from Crossy mentions above.

 

 

 

 

 

NOT true.

At least in Switzerland the Royal Thai Consulate and /or Thai Embassy issues METV for early retirees below 50 Years old, though requires proof of regular income. Which actually makes sense , especially for thoise which cant get the Retirement Visa because of the age restriction.

Why is it so difficult for a Country to apply same rules every where in  their Official Branches , remains a mistery .

3. world rules ....?

Common sense is a gift and bliss and clearly not free available ....

 

 

TIT

[mstevens]

19 hours ago, BritTim said:

 

I would like to see some evidence that Thailand has a major problem with economic migrants from Sweden flocking into their country.

 

What I see happening is rule changes that do not address the problems (real or imagined) they are supposed to solve. Pedophiles, drug traffickers, terrorists, and other unsavory elements are not generally spending six months (or more) continuously in Thailand. If they are, it is purely coincidental, and most (like regular tourists) will be making shorter visits to engage in their illegal activities.

 

I have no doubt that it is true that a few of those here on tourist entries are working, especially teaching English. I agree this is against the regulations, but I question the assumption that it should be a top priority to eliminate native English teaching for less affluent Thais. There is no evidence that further degrading the already deplorable level of English proficiency in Thailand is going to be positive overall.

 

Why does there seem to be this idea that those who stay a long time in Thailand on back to back tourist visas are English teachers?  I thought that the whole English teaching industry had grown up and it was more professional.  Do you really think there are so many English teachers earning lousy salary and exiting the country frequently to get a new tourist visa or do a visa run?  I would not have thought there would be enough money in it to live like that.  I could of course be totally wrong.  (In case you wonder, no, I am not an English teacher!)

 

I thought it more likely that people with many tourist visas back to back are digital nomads or at least doing work that pays enough to do visa runs frequently.

[bruceamstutz]

Strange ???......I am retired and presently on a METV  and had no problem obtaining one in the USA. Maybe due to the fact of send the Embassy  evidence of my monthly pension and Social Security payments??....    

[gk10002000]

On 1/16/2017 at 8:36 PM, possum1931 said:

Yes, if you have 500.000 Bt to throw away, still do your 90 day reporting, contributing to the Thai economy and after fives years you get nothing in return.

The Elite visa is only for those who have plenty of money, which is not usually the under fifty year old tourists who want to stay in Thailand in the longer term.

I disagree with your assertion that the Elite visa is only for those who have plenty of money.  At an exchange rate of 35 baht to the 1 USD, 500,000 baht equals 14,285 USD.  Now granted not an insignificant sum.  But averaged over 5 years that is: 2,857 USD per year.  For that price you get unlimited entries and exits to Thailand for 5 years.  You don't have to do any more visa work or get extensions or make border runs.  If the METV was good for you, then an assumption is you are entering and leaving Thailand frequently, therefore the the Elite could be a reasonable choice for such a person.     The METV costs 200 USD and is good for 6 months. So for five years assuming you kept getting METVs it would cost $2,000 USD.  But you have to keep getting one by mail or in person and that takes time and money.  Is the Elite worth it?  Up to the individual.  But if one can't get anything else it by default is a strong contender.  As far as going other places because one feels Thailand is not welcoming, well I understand that.  But governments and coups and leaders go through cycles, but the people and fun things to do in the country haven't changed that much and great times can be had.  I know many bad people in some good organizations and places but don't let that get in the way of things.

[NoshowJones]

16 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I disagree with your assertion that the Elite visa is only for those who have plenty of money.  At an exchange rate of 35 baht to the 1 USD, 500,000 baht equals 14,285 USD.  Now granted not an insignificant sum.  But averaged over 5 years that is: 2,857 USD per year.  For that price you get unlimited entries and exits to Thailand for 5 years.  You don't have to do any more visa work or get extensions or make border runs.  If the METV was good for you, then an assumption is you are entering and leaving Thailand frequently, therefore the the Elite could be a reasonable choice for such a person.     The METV costs 200 USD and is good for 6 months. So for five years assuming you kept getting METVs it would cost $2,000 USD.  But you have to keep getting one by mail or in person and that takes time and money.  Is the Elite worth it?  Up to the individual.  But if one can't get anything else it by default is a strong contender.  As far as going other places because one feels Thailand is not welcoming, well I understand that.  But governments and coups and leaders go through cycles, but the people and fun things to do in the country haven't changed that much and great times can be had.  I know many bad people in some good organizations and places but don't let that get in the way of things.

I see what you are saying, but IMO, I see it as poor value for money, paying to stay in someones country, while contributing to their economy, no, not fair at all.

[JayBird]

15 hours ago, possum1931 said:

I see what you are saying, but IMO, I see it as poor value for money, paying to stay in someones country, while contributing to their economy, no, not fair at all.

 

The 20 year at 1M THB is a lot up front, but works out to be 50k/year which is very comparable to doing SETV runs.  So an argument can be made that it is a lot at once, but its hard to back an argument that its annualized rate is too high.  And that's without factoring in the simplicity and guarantee it offers versus SETV runs.

 

Yes it is sad one has to jump through hoops, paperwork, or pay a lot to get a Visa to stay in someone elses country without intention to work, just to spend money there..... but this is *not* unique to Thailand.  A lot (most?) countries make it hard to be a long term visitor (and some won't even allow it at all).  Look at some of the European countries (like Switzerland!)..

 

So on a 'global stage', Thailand is one of the few countries that offers a relatively easy way to stay long term.

 

But yes, I do wish all countries would be: Oh, you just want to live, not work, and spend money... welcome! XXOOOXX

[NoshowJones]

2 minutes ago, JayBird said:

 

The 20 year at 1M THB is a lot up front, but works out to be 50k/year which is very comparable to doing SETV runs.  So an argument can be made that it is a lot at once, but its hard to back an argument that its annualized rate is too high.  And that's without factoring in the simplicity and guarantee it offers versus SETV runs.

 

Yes it is sad one has to jump through hoops, paperwork, or pay a lot to get a Visa to stay in someone elses country without intention to work, just to spend money there..... but this is *not* unique to Thailand.  A lot (most?) countries make it hard to be a long term visitor (and some won't even allow it at all).  Look at some of the European countries (like Switzerland!)..

 

So on a 'global stage', Thailand is one of the few countries that offers a relatively easy way to stay long term.

 

But yes, I do wish all countries would be: Oh, you just want to live, not work, and spend money... welcome! XXOOOXX

Yes, there is a lot in what you say, and I know some other countries are also unfair, I think married expats in Thailand get a raw deal with so many hoops to go through.

[ubonjoe]

24 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I think married expats in Thailand get a raw deal with so many hoops to go through.

I don't jump through any when I apply for my one year extension of stay. Just submit my application with proof of income and the normal required documents. A little more than an hour at immigration this year. Wife went back to immigration at the end of the under consideration period to get the extension stamp done. So one trip to immigration for me in a year.

[NoshowJones]

I know, but a friend of mine changed from the retirement extensions to the marriage extensions, and had to go through an awful lot of hassle. also, I am not prepared to have 400.000 Bt in my Thai bank, I feel safer most of my money in my UK bank, I had another mate who knows someone who went on to the marriage extensions, and two guys from immigration came to his house for the procedure, and they asked for 2000Bt for their fuel expenses, he knew had had to give them it to make sure everything would be OK. The IO is only about 60 Ks from his house.

That 2000Bt was nothing more than tea money.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, JayBird said:

Yes it is sad one has to jump through hoops, paperwork, or pay a lot to get a Visa to stay in someone elses country without intention to work, just to spend money there..... but this is *not* unique to Thailand.  A lot (most?) countries make it hard to be a long term visitor (and some won't even allow it at all).  Look at some of the European countries (like Switzerland!)..

 

So on a 'global stage', Thailand is one of the few countries that offers a relatively easy way to stay long term.

 

But yes, I do wish all countries would be: Oh, you just want to live, not work, and spend money... welcome! XXOOOXX

 

Thailand is not Switzerland.  Compare Thailand to Cambodia, The Philippines, and Vietnam - which have offers a tiny fraction of the cost.  Even Malaysisa, which is relatively more difficult than the others, has the "my 2nd home" system, which at least allows one to retain their "proof of financial worthiness" investment.

 

If I were wealthy enough and younger, I'd go for the 10M Baht investment-basis for stay in Thailand - but not in condos, since potential owners, including the fast-growing online-earner segment, are being driven off by increasingly strict immigration policies.  Unlikely to loose 10% in 10 years in bonds and bank-accounts - and if so, it would at least be a capital-gains loss / tax-writeoff.  Anyone willing to plop-down 1M Baht for a visa surely has 100M min-savings/investments, I would think - so 10M invested here is max 10%.

[joeboxer]

Come to The Philippines, where everything for a single bloke is much cheaper than Thailand.

No visa hassles, just renew when it is due and pay your pesos.

My renewal today for a six month extension cost 6250 baht

English spoken everywhere, the only downside is Thai food is much better

 

[joeboxer]

Look up Roger Lundgren on Facebook, a Swedish pal of mine who has been in The Philippines for years and chat with him

 

[JB300]

Come to The Philippines, where everything for a single bloke is much cheaper than Thailand.
No visa hassles, just renew when it is due and pay your pesos.
My renewal today for a six month extension cost 6250 baht
English spoken everywhere, the only downside is Thai food is much better [emoji20]
 

I love the Philippines & have (well my Filipina Princess has... Same Same Thailand) a great house in Kapalong (2 hours north of Davao), but for some reason I just want to live in Thailand (with said Filipina Princess)

Can't be the food (much better Thai food in Singapore & I prefer Korean food which is everywhere in Phils) & can't be the women (as mentioned I'd be bringing my own "Sand to the beach") but there's just something about flying into Bangkok that puts a massive smile on my face.

[impulse]

On 1/18/2017 at 10:53 AM, mstevens said:

I thought it more likely that people with many tourist visas back to back are digital nomads or at least doing work that pays enough to do visa runs frequently.

 

Personally, I would welcome the standardization between the various government entities, though I wish they had gone the other way and created a visa that caters to digital nomads and the like.  The tax authority of Thailand says you're a tax resident if you stay over 180 days in a given year, and are subject to different tax requirements.  Immigration says you can do that, still as a tourist, and basically stay under the tax radar.  That's inconsistent.

 

I wish they'd offer a visa for digital nomads, day traders, and others with income that requires no participation from local people -and take no jobs from local people- to stay in Thailand as tax residents, paying income taxes on the percentage of their income that's earned during their time in Thailand.  When they're breathing Thai air, using Thai infrastructure, and under the protection of the Thai police and military (okay- I know that's stretching it).  

 

But they don't.  

 

So I think a poor second choice is for immigration to prevent people from becoming tax residents on tourist visas without a requirement to report that 180+ day status to the tax authorities.  The least logical alternative is for immigration to allow people to violate tax law by giving them visas that allow them to stay as legal tax residents without ever paying income taxes anywhere- because they stay in their home country less than 180 days and never have to bother with income taxes in Thailand where they spend most of their time.  Hardly seems fair.

 

BTW, I suspect we'd have a lot fewer digital nomads residing here if they actually did have to pay Thai income tax... Like the rest of us working in Thailand.

Edited January 21, 2017 by impulse