SWEDEN CRUMBLING: Demands for military intervention as thugs turn Malmo into 'no-go zone'

[Opl]

In  major european cities the phenomenon of the Muslim ghetto is present and, as in France, firemen, police officers are attacked, drug trafficking is flourishing, and the majority of the people live on social welfare.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2016/03/22/breaking-bad-in-the-middle-east-and-north-africa-drugs-militants-and-human-rights/

 

Crime[edit]

Further information: Crime in Sweden and Immigration and crime

Immigrants are over-represented in Sweden's crime statistics. In a study by the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention in 1997–2001, 25% of the almost 1,520,000 offences were found to be committed by people born abroad and almost 20% were committed by Swedish born people of foreign background

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Sweden#Current_population_of_immigrants_and_their_descendants 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Opl

[Grouse]

I had lunch at The Swedish Bakery here yesterday and discussed this with four rational Swedish blokes from Stokholm, Malmo and Gothenburg.

 

General agreement is that violence now is really out of control

 

insufficient police so bringing in the army is welcomed even if that means martial law

 

Immigration IS the problem. Not just recently but from the Balkan wars. Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians together with the Muslim hoards recently.

 

Of course there is retaliation from local hot heads but they are not the root cause

 

Sweden has taken three times more "refugees" as a percentage of population than Germany

 

It saddens me that my beloved Scandinavians with their civilised societies and big hearts have been taken advantage off.

 

My Swedish friends predict a war in Europe to push back the tide. Who can blame them?

 

BTW, Swedish rape laws and confident well educated women result in high reporting rates for rape.

 

They are also exceedingly pretty but that's another matter ?

[Shawn0000]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I had lunch at The Swedish Bakery here yesterday and discussed this with four rational Swedish blokes from Stokholm, Malmo and Gothenburg.

 

General agreement is that violence now is really out of control

 

insufficient police so bringing in the army is welcomed even if that means martial law

 

Immigration IS the problem. Not just recently but from the Balkan wars. Serbs, Albanians, Bosnians together with the Muslim hoards recently.

 

Of course there is retaliation from local hot heads but they are not the root cause

 

Sweden has taken three times more "refugees" as a percentage of population than Germany

 

It saddens me that my beloved Scandinavians with their civilised societies and big hearts have been taken advantage off.

 

My Swedish friends predict a war in Europe to push back the tide. Who can blame them?

 

BTW, Swedish rape laws and confident well educated women result in high reporting rates for rape.

 

They are also exceedingly pretty but that's another matter ?

 

What makes you say they were rational, did you think that would make it all sound convincing?  I have listened to the Swedish police, they contradict everything you have said, they say that nothing is out of the ordinary and that all the hysteria has come from press in other countries who do not understand their issues and are listening to far right extremists who are basically making things up.  The problems are happening on problematic estates where there are a lot of second and third generation immigrants and also high unemployment, but the problems are not linkable to immigrants or their children, the problems are being caused by people on those estates of all races, the problem is poverty.

[Grouse]

47 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

What makes you say they were rational, did you think that would make it all sound convincing?  I have listened to the Swedish police, they contradict everything you have said, they say that nothing is out of the ordinary and that all the hysteria has come from press in other countries who do not understand their issues and are listening to far right extremists who are basically making things up.  The problems are happening on problematic estates where there are a lot of second and third generation immigrants and also high unemployment, but the problems are not linkable to immigrants or their children, the problems are being caused by people on those estates of all races, the problem is poverty.

 

By rational, I just meant that they were sober men of a certain age. Reasonable if you prefer

 

your statement about poverty is relative. They, the immigrants, are NOT impoverished in absolute terms

[Shawn0000]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

By rational, I just meant that they were sober men of a certain age. Reasonable if you prefer

 

your statement about poverty is relative. They, the immigrants, are NOT impoverished in absolute terms

 

It would be irrational to draw a distinction in the relative terms of poverty between the immigrants and the Swedish born people living on the same estate, what is rational is talking in terms of relative poverty of the estates and Sweden as a whole, in which case it is fair to say that these are impoverished places.

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

It would be irrational to draw a distinction in the relative terms of poverty between the immigrants and the Swedish born people living on the same estate, what is rational is talking in terms of relative poverty of the estates and Sweden as a whole, in which case it is fair to say that these are impoverished places.

 

The point is that immigrants are MUCH better off on Swedish estate (or in a Swedish jail) than wherever they come from

[Shawn0000]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

 

The point is that immigrants are MUCH better off on Swedish estate (or in a Swedish jail) than wherever they come from

 

I understood your irrational point, irrational due to the fact that the problems on these estates are being caused by all people, Swedish ethnics alike, and also due to the fact that the problems caused by other ethnics tends to actually be their Swedish born children rather than the first generation immigrants themselves, so the economic situation of the countries they originated is completely irrelevant.

[Grouse]

My view is entirely rational but you maybe better informed than I. I haven't been to Sweden for three years so Ai am relying upon what Swedes tell me.

 

My point is that kindness and generosity of the Scandinavians generally has been abused. There may well be a backlash.

[the guest]

The Swedes (like the rest of Europe) have only themselves to blame. Most of Europe is under the same type of attack, for which undoubtedly will mean the collapse of the whole system, if no mechanism to address this issue is tackled head-on.

 

Meanwhile in Thailand, the majority of foreigners are kept on a very tight leash. The result is that Thai culture, and the Thai way of life hasn't been diluted by outsiders. There are no handouts for foreigners, and you must come here with money in your pockets. If they are empty, then you must go back to your home country. The rules are simple, but effective. Europe could learn a lot from Thailand !

Edited January 22, 2017 by the guest

[watgate]

So as Europe continues to be inundated with countless refugees their way of life is fast disappearing. The handwriting is on the wall and it is frightening to say the least. Millions of Europeans are afraid or intimidated to speak their minds or tell the truth. The politicians and politically correct perpetrators have effectively silenced any sense of rational consensus. They are trying in the US and a big reason why Pres Trump is being vilified and attacked on a daily basis is because he understands the crisis at hand. Unlike most European leaders who are either complicit or gutless or brainwashed as to what is happening in Europe, Trump has the guts to make a stand. He understands what is happening on a global scale as the global elites are implementing their new world order to the detriment of the civilized world. God help us and I question whether enough people will wake up to the harsh realities that are being played out and whether they have enough guts and determination to put an end to this insanity. As stated previously by other posters, history has a way of repeating itself and the future does not look very promising in Europe if things don't turn around quickly.

[7by7]

18 hours ago, Morch said:

@7by7

 

So them knickers are still knotted. Oh well...

Stop deflecting, and I'll stop calling your deflections a deflection. Even drop the "clumsy" bit. Promise.

Where, in the article linked, is there a clear statement relating to a possible correlation such as mentioned in my original question?

And to be clear, by "clear" I do not mean an interpretation of half a sentence which could mean this or that.

 To repeat

19 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The article I linked to does relate to the question you asked; "Is there a correlation between "violent street crime" (or "organised criminals") and the Muslim immigrant population in Malmo?" That you prefer to call it a "clumsy deflection" and a "shoddy argument"" is not unusual; you are, unfortunately, resorting to such statements more and more when presented with facts which you don't care for and arguments which you can't refute.

 

If you think otherwise, instead of childish responses like "So them knickers are still knotted" and unfounded accusations of deflection,  present an argument to support that viewpoint.

 

Until you do, I see no point in responding to you further on the matter.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 To repeat

 

If you think otherwise, instead of childish responses like "So them knickers are still knotted" and unfounded accusations of deflection,  present an argument to support that viewpoint.

 

Until you do, I see no point in responding to you further on the matter.

 

I presented a question, rather than an argument. You did deflect, and you are still deflecting.  I'll take the above as a your grudging acknowledgment of not having a proper answer.  Throwing the toys out of the pram is a distinct trademark, by now.

[stevenl]

So as Europe continues to be inundated with countless refugees their way of life is fast disappearing. The handwriting is on the wall and it is frightening to say the least. Millions of Europeans are afraid or intimidated to speak their minds or tell the truth. The politicians and politically correct perpetrators have effectively silenced any sense of rational consensus. They are trying in the US and a big reason why Pres Trump is being vilified and attacked on a daily basis is because he understands the crisis at hand. Unlike most European leaders who are either complicit or gutless or brainwashed as to what is happening in Europe, Trump has the guts to make a stand. He understands what is happening on a global scale as the global elites are implementing their new world order to the detriment of the civilized world. God help us and I question whether enough people will wake up to the harsh realities that are being played out and whether they have enough guts and determination to put an end to this insanity. As stated previously by other posters, history has a way of repeating itself and the future does not look very promising in Europe if things don't turn around quickly.

So who are the global elites?

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[Thakkar]

22 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

3 hours ago, watgate said:

So as Europe continues to be inundated with countless refugees their way of life is fast disappearing. The handwriting is on the wall and it is frightening to say the least. Millions of Europeans are afraid or intimidated to speak their minds or tell the truth. The politicians and politically correct perpetrators have effectively silenced any sense of rational consensus. They are trying in the US and a big reason why Pres Trump is being vilified and attacked on a daily basis is because he understands the crisis at hand. Unlike most European leaders who are either complicit or gutless or brainwashed as to what is happening in Europe, Trump has the guts to make a stand. He understands what is happening on a global scale as the global elites are implementing their new world order to the detriment of the civilized world. God help us and I question whether enough people will wake up to the harsh realities that are being played out and whether they have enough guts and determination to put an end to this insanity. As stated previously by other posters, history has a way of repeating itself and the future does not look very promising in Europe if things don't turn around quickly.

So who are the global elites?

 

 

 

Oil company executives, Goldman Sachs bankers, billionaires, you know, the kinds of people Trump would never have in his cabinet.

 

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.   The topic isn't about Trump. 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   One poster is on suspension for discussing Trump.   This topic is about Sweden; it has nothing to do with Trump and continued trolling will result in more suspensions.  

[7by7]

On ‎22‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 10:03 AM, Morch said:

 

I presented a question, rather than an argument. You did deflect, and you are still deflecting.  I'll take the above as a your grudging acknowledgment of not having a proper answer.  Throwing the toys out of the pram is a distinct trademark, by now.

Ok, one more attempt at an adult conversation with you.

 

You originally asked

On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 1:28 PM, Morch said:

 

Is there a correlation between "violent street crime" (or "organised criminals") and the Muslim immigrant population in Malmo?

In my original response to your original question I opined that if there was such a correlation, then Olsson would have mentioned it in the interview which forms this topics OP.

 

 I also linked to and quoted from this article to show that the violence is caused by gangs made up of Swedes and non Swedes.

 

So, can you explain how answering your original question and presenting evidence to back up my answer is deflecting?

 

You obviously disagree with my opinion; yet have presented absolutely no evidence to show why you believe that my opinion is incorrect.

 

Instead you merely make accusations of deflection, getting my knickers knotted and throwing my toys out of the pram!

 

If you have evidence to show that my conclusion is incorrect, then present it.

Edited January 23, 2017 by 7by7

[uptheos]

I'm so glad I visited Sweden as a younger man before it was taken over by muslims.

I have very fond memories of the people, their laid back way of life, the country itself.

I guess they were too laid back for their own good, now heading toward the 7th century

at an alarming pace. Will try and find the link where scholars and statisticians say that

Sweden will be dominated by muslims by 2049. I wont be here to seen it, but its so sad,

[Morch]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Ok, one more attempt at an adult conversation with you.

 

You originally asked

In my original response to your original question I opined that if there was such a correlation, then Olsson would have mentioned it in the interview which forms this topics OP.

 

 I also linked to and quoted from this article to show that the violence is caused by gangs made up of Swedes and non Swedes.

 

So, can you explain how answering your original question and presenting evidence to back up my answer is deflecting?

 

If you have evidence to show that my conclusion is incorrect, then present it.

 

What you opined is not a fact, but an assertion made by a poster holding a known, and biased, position. The link provided did not, in fact,  directly address the question raised, but touched upon it briefly. My take of the article linked was posted above, here it is again:

 

Quote

The whole peace reads like a PR attempt, and indeed - there are several references to efforts at presenting the city other than it is perceived. Rather, I would expect the good officer to comply with the spirit of PC and not directly address such issues. There are a few references which do hint at this connection though - (neighborhoods, ethnic food and integration, to name some).

What I was after are facts, figures and on the whole, a bit more beef. Presenting the the interpretation of half a sentence in the article linked as conclusive "evidence" is the sort of nonsense I was referring to as deflection.

 

So once again, if you do not actually know relevant facts pertaining to the question ask, why the bothersome insistence that things are one way or the other? I do not need to "disprove" your "evidence", because it is nothing of the sort. As detailed above, the article itself may suggest otherwise.

[7by7]

47 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If you have evidence to show that my conclusion is incorrect, then present it.

Still no evidence at all from you, @Morch just supposition that I must be incorrect.

 

34 minutes ago, Morch said:

What you opined is not a fact, but an assertion made by a poster holding a known, and biased, position.

I hold the position that the vast majority of Muslims are not responsible for Islamic terrorism; indeed condemn it as much as non Muslims do.

 

I hold the position that the vast majority of Muslims in Europe, born here, immigrants or refugees, are not criminals and condemn the activities of those who are as much as non Muslims do.

 

I have presented evidence to support that position on numerous occasions in numerous topics. That you choose to disbelieve that evidence is your affair.

 

34 minutes ago, Morch said:

There are a few references which do hint at this connection though - (neighborhoods, ethnic food and integration, to name some).

The following is a question; not an attempt to twist what you have said, nor put words in your mouth.

 

Are you seriously saying that because some neighbourhoods in Malmo have large Muslim populations, that ethnic food such as falafel is widely available in Malmo, that there is some integration between the indigenous and immigrant population (which surely must be welcomed!); all this means that the terrible gang violence in Malmo is mainly due to the Muslim population?

 

I have not been able to find any evidence from any reputable source to say that there is a definite correlation between violent street crime in Malmo and  the Muslim immigrant population. All the evidence I have found, including from Malmo's chief of police, shows that the violence is caused by criminal gangs, members of which consists of both ethnic Swedes and immigrants.

 

As I said to you before, if you have evidence to the contrary; produce it.

 

Simply dismissing my evidence because it doesn't suit your politics is not good enough; it's time for you to put up or shut up.

Edited January 23, 2017 by 7by7

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Still no evidence at all from you, @Morch just supposition that I must be incorrect.

 

I hold the position that the vast majority of Muslims are not responsible for Islamic terrorism; indeed condemn it as much as non Muslims do.

 

I hold the position that the vast majority of Muslims in Europe, born here, immigrants or refugees, are not criminals and condemn the activities of those who are as much as non Muslims do.

 

I have presented evidence to support that position on numerous occasions in numerous topics. That you choose to disbelieve that evidence is your affair.

 

The following is a question; not an attempt to twist what you have said, nor put words in your mouth.

 

Are you seriously saying that because some neighbourhoods in Malmo have large Muslim populations, that ethnic food such as falafel is widely available in Malmo, that there is some integration between the indigenous and immigrant population (which surely must be welcomed!); all this means that the terrible gang violence in Malmo is mainly due to the Muslim population?

 

I have not been able to find any evidence from any reputable source to say that there is a definite correlation between violent street crime in Malmo and  the Muslim immigrant population. All the evidence I have found, including from Malmo's chief of police, shows that the violence is caused by criminal gangs, members of which consists of both ethnic Swedes and immigrants.

 

As I said to you before, if you have evidence to the contrary; produce it.

 

Simply dismissing my evidence because it doesn't suit your politics is not good enough; it's time for you to put up or shut up.

You have an idiosyncratic way of defining "evidence". I do not see it as valid. Further, I did not make a claim, but asked a question - somehow you feel that I need to refute your so-called "evidence" by producing counter-evidence....because I raised a question. Can't see where you're going with that one.

 

The question asked was specific, not pan-European, not global, and not related to your UK experience. Excuse me if I do not trust your extrapolation, considering your stance and the lack of anything concrete to support it.

 

As for your, by now, usual attempts to put words in my mouth (despite claiming otherwise) - I did not say any of the nonsense spouted. I asked a question, and I commented on the contents of a an article you linked. That you choose to interpret these as if I said anything of the sort is more to do with your own issues. I feel no need to answer a dishonest "question" and play your games.

 

And again, you did not produce any "evidence". And I did not make any concrete claim. I raised a question and doubted (and still doubt) the answer your provided. I doubt that you know what my "politics" are and your childish threats and challenges are, as always, ridiculous.

 

If you do not have anything else to contribute, you do not have to comment.

 

 

[7by7]

You asked a question, I answered it, you didn't care for my answer and ever since have tried to rubbish it with nothing to back up your assertions at all.

 

You, equally, do not know my politics, yet you use your supposition of what they are to make remarks like

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

What you opined is not a fact, but an assertion made by a poster holding a known, and biased, position.

Pathetic.

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

You asked a question, I answered it, you didn't care for my answer and ever since have tried to rubbish it with nothing to back up your assertions at all.

 

You, equally, do not know my politics, yet you use your supposition of what they are to make remarks like

Pathetic.

 

I know you won't believe this, but not everyone is obliged to take your answers as definitive or even to the point. I haven't made much by way of "assertions", simply explained why I do not take your "answer" very seriously.

 

Your positions, or "politics" with regard to anything semi-related to Muslims in Europe are presented across multiple topics, and are pretty consistent. In contrast, my participation in these topics is somewhat limited, and less related to a definitive political position.

[LammyTS1]

"MIGRANT youth gangs have turned Sweden’s largest shopping centre into a “no-go zone” as they intimidate police, harass girls and deal drugs openly."


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