The fallacy of muzzling the media

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

 

The fallacy of muzzling the media
By The Nation

 

The junta must not mistake ‘reform’ for ‘control’

 

BANGKOK: -- There are growing concerns both in Thailand and abroad about a new law that would permit greater and unnecessary control on private media outlets as well as journalists in the country. 

 

The National Reform Steering Assembly and the government could have directed its energy more productively elsewhere by ensuring greater media freedom, independence and protection. The Assembly is made up of people appointed by this government backed by the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO).

 

They were instructed to draft a “bill on rights, protection, ethical promotion, and standards of media professionals” as part of the NCPO’s reform agenda. But these drafters seem to regard “reform” and “control” as synonymous.

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/today_editorial/30305751

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-02-06

[canuckamuck]

That is quite a strong and daring editorial, Too bad we won't be seeing many more of those.

 

I thought this part said a lot.

Quote

The legislation is currently under review by the NRSA media reform panel. The fact that the current junta has proven to be extremely thin-skinned when it comes to handling criticism should be a matter of concern. After all, these measures are being pushed through by the top brass, who seem obsessed by control and know virtually nothing at all about good governance. 

and this

Quote

Instead of hiding behind fancy words like “national security, protecting the political system and the moral values of the people”, people and the world will respect this government more if it could make a clean breast about its intention to cement a place in Thai politics.

All along they have claimed their actions were in the people’s interests. Perhaps it’s good for some people, like their people, the ones who are currently in power and would like to cling on to it for as long as they can.

 

[aussieinthailand]

Guess who's not going to get a licences next year...

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Then ban public discussion on a constitution, A free press, what joke and those that support this kind of control over a country should be ashamed of themselves. 

  

[yellowboat]

The junta must not mistake ‘reform’ for ‘control’

 

Sadly the Thai people will have to reconcile with the fact that reform is all about control. 

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The junta must not mistake ‘reform’ for ‘control’

No mistake.

The junta is taking a page from Putin control of the State. Whoever owns the media controls what it says.

“There should be patriotically minded people at the head of state information resources,” - Putin

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/how-the-media-became-putins-most-powerful-weapon/391062/

 

[connda]

3 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Guess who's not going to get a licences next year...

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Then ban public discussion on a constitution, A free press, what joke and those that support this kind of control over a country should be ashamed of themselves. 

  

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Probably because some of us have been around long enough to know that Western exceptionalism is a fallacy, and one form of government isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' solution.  Also the media can be (and are) manipulated by internal or external forces.  Since the Trump election, how many irresponsible news media sites continue to promote political assassination of the current US president as a topic of discussion?  No wonder Thailand is playing the conservative approach.  A free media has a responsible to not become the propaganda arm of monied interests and the power elite.  A true 'free press' are the watch dogs for the benefit of public interest, not the guard dogs of elite interests. 
Considering the chaos I witnessed from the time I stepped off the plane until the junta took over (riots, mobs, shootings, bombing, yellow and red killing each other) the takeover by the military was a welcome relief imho.  Some people want to act as those the junta takeover is permanent; it is not.  But they are trying to stabilize the prior stupidly before handing the reins back to a civilian government.  Having a press that incites instability again is counter-productive.  Is the junta perfect?  No.  But it is a valid stabilizing force in a country bordering on what could have easily turned into civil war.  Many people don't see the larger picture.  Give it time.  If you are a farang, note that this is not the country you came from!  It does not run like your country.  Nor should it.  I have yet to see a 'perfect form of government' anywhere on this diverse planet.   

[Eligius]

A very courageous article. It took guts to write that. The author of the editorial is really putting his head on the block. Is this a sign, at last, of people beginning to say: 'NO! We've had enough!'?

[yellowboat]

1 minute ago, connda said:

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Probably because some of us have been around long enough to know that Western exceptionalism is a fallacy, and one form of government isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' solution. 

Been around long enough, but have you left Thailand ?   Taiwan has a highly functional democracy which was homegrown.  They cherish it.  Japan has elections.  Korea has its problems, but they have universal suffrage.  Why is it that certain people feel that representative governments only function in the west ?  

 

Let's not call it western exceptional-ism anymore.  Let's call it Taiwanese exceptional-ism when talking abut representative governments in Asia.  

[connda]

40 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

No mistake.

The junta is taking a page from Putin control of the State. Whoever owns the media controls what it says.

“There should be patriotically minded people at the head of state information resources,” - Putin

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/04/how-the-media-became-putins-most-powerful-weapon/391062/

 

And the six media corporations in the US who have brought up and consolidated over 90% of the US media outlets aren't parroting the US State Department's talking points and a progressive liberal agenda? 
I remember when the US media outlets were an extremely diverse set of independently owned and operated companies with a vastly diverse set of opinions.  That was the time of a truly 'free press.'  Those days are long gone.  There are few 'good guys' who function independently from the state in which they reside, be it Russian, China, Britain, or the US (et.al.).  Thinking otherwise simply shows how indoctrinated and nationalistic the public has become in each of their own countries.  It's human nature to associate with the majority views of your own country, but that doesn't mean your perceived reality is accurate.
There are way too many followers and not too many independent thinkers who can see beyond the status quo.  Hence, we have a world of endless war and strife where there could be peace and prosperity, but there isn't.  Now there is the human condition for you in a nutshell.  Lol. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by connda

[connda]

21 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Been around long enough, but have you left Thailand ?   Taiwan has a highly functional democracy which was homegrown.  They cherish it.  Japan has elections.  Korea has its problems, but they have universal suffrage.  Why is it that certain people feel that representative governments only function in the west ?  

 

Let's not call it western exceptional-ism anymore.  Let's call it Taiwanese exceptional-ism when talking abut representative governments in Asia.  

Respectfully, you missed my point. But I understand what you're saying.  And I'm extremely well traveled.  I've seen more of the world than most.

Edited February 6, 2017 by connda

[Srikcir]

46 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Why is it that certain people feel that representative governments only function in the west ?  

Let's not forget India that is the largest democracy in the world by population.

[sandemara]

1 hour ago, connda said:

I have yet to see a 'perfect form of government' anywhere on this diverse planet.   

 I guess you haven't tried looking too far (or you practice selective memory techniques to suit your opinion).  Wasn't it Churchill who said democracy wasn't perfect, but it was a helluva long way out front of what other forms of government offered.  I cannot see any intelligent, rational justification apologists use on behalf  of authorities who steal power from an elected government.  The hypocrisy is laughable.

[Eric Loh]

Going by the definition of a "functioning democracy" being as a way of social life organization based on recognition of people as the source of power, its rights to participate in solution of state and public affairs which usually involved periodical held free elections and vesting citizens with wide enough range of rights and freedom; many Asian countries will qualify and not necessarily only the West. 

[yellowboat]

53 minutes ago, connda said:

Respectfully, you missed my point. But I understand what you're saying.  And I'm extremely well traveled.  I've seen more of the world than most.

What I can tell from what you wrote:

 

1. Westerners should not press Thailand to have a representative government even though there are working examples in Asia.

 

2. The US media is biased. Which is true, but that is why our read the Right (Drudgereport) and the Left, most other media outlets.  When it comes to press freedoms, Taiwan is 51 in the world.  Thailand is 136.  Thailand has LOTS of room for improvement.

 

3. The coup staved off civil war. Oh please.  The coup marginalized a democratic system and put aside the peoples vote without anything resembling due process. 

 

 

[smedly]

5 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Guess who's not going to get a licences next year...

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Then ban public discussion on a constitution, A free press, what joke and those that support this kind of control over a country should be ashamed of themselves. 

  

people on here don't necessarily support the Junta as you claim - they support the fact that Thailand is a corrupt cesspit and see no other path for change, no politician that I can think of has either the will or the might to effect the changes that are needed, do I agree with everything the junta is doing ? absolutely not and have made that very clear on here on many occasions but I don't see any other way of Thailand getting the reforms it needs short of an out and out civil war and hoping that the good side wins because if they didn't Thailand could easily take the path of somewhere like N Korea or Burma with some despot dictator taking control.

 

I understand what is driving this media purge (which for the record  I fundamentally disagree with) - the PM cannot deal with being criticised whether right or wrong he sees himself as always being right and wants to shut down/silence  those that  oppose him - the problem of a military man trying to be a politician.

 

There is also the confusing fact that you have divisive organisations and certain divisive people that have an axe to grind and much to gain which  doesn't help matters

 

Nothing is simple in this country especially any solution to its many problems the biggest being the huge amounts of money feeding into elected politicians through corruption and also the very biased Justice system that favours the rich and those in power, but I see no other way forward to effect change, if anyone else sees another path then do share

[chilli42]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Why do the few here on TVF still support a junta that represses it's own people and continue to abuse human rights?

Probably because some of us have been around long enough to know that Western exceptionalism is a fallacy, and one form of government isn't a 'one-size-fits-all' solution.  Also the media can be (and are) manipulated by internal or external forces.  Since the Trump election, how many irresponsible news media sites continue to promote political assassination of the current US president as a topic of discussion?  No wonder Thailand is playing the conservative approach.  A free media has a responsible to not become the propaganda arm of monied interests and the power elite.  A true 'free press' are the watch dogs for the benefit of public interest, not the guard dogs of elite interests. 
Considering the chaos I witnessed from the time I stepped off the plane until the junta took over (riots, mobs, shootings, bombing, yellow and red killing each other) the takeover by the military was a welcome relief imho.  Some people want to act as those the junta takeover is permanent; it is not.  But they are trying to stabilize the prior stupidly before handing the reins back to a civilian government.  Having a press that incites instability again is counter-productive.  Is the junta perfect?  No.  But it is a valid stabilizing force in a country bordering on what could have easily turned into civil war.  Many people don't see the larger picture.  Give it time.  If you are a farang, note that this is not the country you came from!  It does not run like your country.  Nor should it.  I have yet to see a 'perfect form of government' anywhere on this diverse planet.   

You make a boat load of great points.  What it all comes down to everywhere in the world is the balance between stability and anarchy.  That balance is a lot more trickey than people credit it.  Authoritarian leaders always use this against us.  How much freedom are you willing to trade off to be safe?  It's a slow process, small seemingly pragmatic trade off's are made ... but it's never enough ... and more trade off's are made etc etc.  Once freedoms are gone, enshrined in some constitution or other, there is no going back ... without a return to anarchy.  I am not speaking to the situation in Thailand but embracing anarchy can be a road to freedom.  It has been so for many of today's most successful democracy's.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

people on here don't necessarily support the Junta as you claim - they support the fact that Thailand is a corrupt cesspit and see no other path for change, no politician that I can think of has either the will or the might to effect the changes that are needed, do I agree with everything the junta is doing ? absolutely not and have made that very clear on here on many occasions but I don't see any other way of Thailand getting the reforms it needs short of an out and out civil war and hoping that the good side wins because if they didn't Thailand could easily take the path of somewhere like N Korea or Burma with some despot dictator taking control.

 

I understand what is driving this media purge (which for the record  I fundamentally disagree with) - the PM cannot deal with being criticised whether right or wrong he sees himself as always being right and wants to shut down/silence  those that  oppose him - the problem of a military man trying to be a politician.

 

There is also the confusing fact that you have divisive organisations and certain divisive people that have an axe to grind and much to gain which  doesn't help matters

 

Nothing is simple in this country especially any solution to its many problems the biggest being the huge amounts of money feeding into elected politicians through corruption and also the very biased Justice system that favours the rich and those in power, but I see no other way forward to effect change, if anyone else sees another path then do share

Agree junta is more akin to least of the bad choices than an ideal. 

 

Anyway I agree too that this is totally wrong and that the PM hates being criticized. But if the following democratic government hates having power over the press we will see them remove this whole problem later on.. or will they use it .... my guess.. they will use it. 

[candide]

It confirms that, even after elections, they are not going to let a party from the opposite faction govern.

This bill and other laws will give too much power to the next government to muzzle opposition. They are not doing that to let the PTP use them if they are elected, right?

[ramrod711]

6 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

A free press, what joke and those that support this kind of control over a country should be ashamed of themselves. 

Funny, I don't recall any complaints from you when Thaksin was buying every media outlet he could get his hands on. That's different I suppose, the Pm should be allowed to set editorial policy as long as he is a rich elite.

[Squeegee]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Since the Trump election, how many irresponsible news media sites continue to promote political assassination of the current US president as a topic of discussion? No wonder Thailand is playing the conservative approach.  A free media has a responsible to not become the propaganda arm of monied interests and the power elite.  A true 'free press' are the watch dogs for the benefit of public interest, not the guard dogs of elite interests. 
Considering the chaos I witnessed from the time I stepped off the plane until the junta took over (riots, mobs, shootings, bombing, yellow and red killing each other) the takeover by the military was a welcome relief imho.  Some people want to act as those the junta takeover is permanent; it is not.  But they are trying to stabilize the prior stupidly before handing the reins back to a civilian government.  Having a press that incites instability again is counter-productive.  Is the junta perfect?  No.  But it is a valid stabilizing force in a country bordering on what could have easily turned into civil war.  Many people don't see the larger picture.  Give it time.  If you are a farang, note that this is not the country you came from!  It does not run like your country.  Nor should it.  I have yet to see a 'perfect form of government' anywhere on this diverse planet.   

 

Your twisted, manipulative perspective is anathema to truth and decency.

 

 

 

 

"Since the Trump election, how many irresponsible news media sites continue to promote political assassination of the current US president as a topic of discussion?"

 

You want to silence criticism and dissent. You are against free speech and human rights.

 

 

 

 

 

"No wonder Thailand is playing the conservative approach."

 

Slyly trying to justify... slyly trying to redefine... suddenly it's normal to ridiculously associate the Thai elite with the plight of Trump cast in some kind of moral light where we all just suck it down what people like you and those you support want to propagate (ie. your own way, not that of most of us).

 

 

 

 

 

"A free media has a responsible to not become the propaganda arm of monied interests and the power elite.  A true 'free press' are the watch dogs for the benefit of public interest, not the guard dogs of elite interests."

 

The junta-shill fashion for facts, and double-speaking them in the hope to catch a fool, since there's one born every minute it's a numbers game like dealing in spam, bottom-feeding stuff.

 

 

 

 

 

"Considering the chaos I witnessed from the time I stepped off the plane until the junta took over (riots, mobs, shootings, bombing, yellow and red killing each other) the takeover by the military was a welcome relief imho."

 

Nobody can blame many perfectly reasonable people for thinking the same some while back. A while back before elections and restoring democracy and cleaning corruption and all those other things became like water under a bridge for the junta's 'roadmap'.

 

 

 

 

"Some people want to act as those the junta takeover is permanent; it is not.  But they are trying to stabilize the prior stupidly before handing the reins back to a civilian government."

 

More laughable tat for the mud-scoopers and vested interests. Told ya', it's a fashion for junta-shillery, to catch a fool.

 

 

 

 

"Having a press that incites instability again is counter-productive."

 

As already noted, your pretense that the junta are doing anything worthwhile for anyone but themselves is plain to see.

 

 

 

 

 

"Is the junta perfect?  No."

 

Again, as if it were a perfectly normal thing to say about people who deny the human rights of their citizens (and potentially anyone else within their borders). Or do you say this about people who snatch students off the street at night because you are scared so this is your Neville Chamberlain routine? I think not.

 

 

 

 

 

"But it is a valid stabilizing force in a country bordering on what could have easily turned into civil war."

 

As if they poppped out of Neutral Saviour Heaven and are not directly associated with, nay a huge contributory factor in the factional politics you try so hard to twist and distort.

 

In no sense of the words are the strong-arm wing of the Thai elite "a valid stabilizing force" and flipping the facts really does seem to be your one trick, Mr Pony, with your zero out of four legs to stand on.

 

 

 

 

"Many people don't see the larger picture.  Give it time."

 

He is a star-gazer, a visionary! Only he (just like his idol) can see....

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you are a farang, note that this is not the country you came from!  It does not run like your country. Nor should it."

 

Apparently the rest of the world is stupider than he is. No wonder he thinks repeating fake truths will stick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I have yet to see a 'perfect form of government' anywhere on this diverse planet."

 

And here we have it, once again, that mantra of the morally lazy or corrupt. But he's alright, Jack, I'm sure.

 

[robblok]

24 minutes ago, candide said:

It confirms that, even after elections, they are not going to let a party from the opposite faction govern.

This bill and other laws will give too much power to the next government to muzzle opposition. They are not doing that to let the PTP use them if they are elected, right?

Nice conspiracy theory, you say others do so but your doing it even more so. Tell me how they are going to rig an election. 

[candide]

41 minutes ago, robblok said:

Nice conspiracy theory, you say others do so but your doing it even more so. Tell me how they are going to rig an election. 

They may well also rig the next elections but it was not my point. I refer to the new constitution that gives a lot of power to various appointed bodies, i.e. a government cannot be elected without the agreement of the appointed senate, governments can be ousted for any vague reason, etc....

[mtls2005]

The goal is less about "muzzling" the media and more about scaring them into self-censorship.

 

And by that I mean more than the 110% self-censorship they practice today,

 

And the Junta doesn't have to worry about pushing "news" into social media because they have "robust" computer crimes and defamation "laws".

[robblok]

54 minutes ago, candide said:

They may well also rig the next elections but it was not my point. I refer to the new constitution that gives a lot of power to various appointed bodies, i.e. a government cannot be elected without the agreement of the appointed senate, governments can be ousted for any vague reason, etc....

Rigging an election.. man that is real hard to do and will always come out too many people have to be silent, just impossible. So yes your a conspiracy guy and call others out on far more likely things.

 

I am sure that if the PTP wins and does not do anything stupid they can stay in power, if they do something stupid.. like amnesties.. Thaksin and so on the senate might shoot them down.

[candide]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Rigging an election.. man that is real hard to do and will always come out too many people have to be silent, just impossible. So yes your a conspiracy guy and call others out on far more likely things.

 

I am sure that if the PTP wins and does not do anything stupid they can stay in power, if they do something stupid.. like amnesties.. Thaksin and so on the senate might shoot them down.

You go on trying to pretend that you misunderstood my posts. Probably because you have nothing to argue on the issue I address. I did not address the issue of rigging elections in my original post, and just answered in my second post that they may well rig elections (a topic that you had introduced to pretend that I believe in a conspiracy), but it that it was not my point ( nothing about that in my first post, I even wrote "after elections" to avoid confusions). Can't you read my posts? I would not be surprised if they also rig the elections, but I am not majing any prediction, in particular as we don't know the details of the election law and organisation.

 

Now the point I made. It is not a question of "I am sure...", it is a question of maths. There are 250 appointed senators and 500 MPs. Even if a party gets a majority of votes, say 260 MPs, they cannot be elected as government if the appointed senate does not aggree to. Additionnally,  a government can be ousted for such vague reasons as not promoting harmony or for not applying the 20 years reform plan.

Come on, if they make laws that allow muzzling opposition, it is not because they intend to be the opposition!

[ddavidovsky]

6 hours ago, Eligius said:

A very courageous article. It took guts to write that. The author of the editorial is really putting his head on the block. Is this a sign, at last, of people beginning to say: 'NO! We've had enough!'?

The junta probably wrote it. They allow 'dissenting' articles every so often - about once every six weeks - in order to give the appearance of an impartial press. Compare "1984", in which O'Brien admitted that he actually wrote Goldstein's book...

 

 

[chainarong]

6 hours ago, yellowboat said:

Been around long enough, but have you left Thailand ?   Taiwan has a highly functional democracy which was homegrown.  They cherish it.  Japan has elections.  Korea has its problems, but they have universal suffrage.  Why is it that certain people feel that representative governments only function in the west ?  

 

Let's not call it western exceptional-ism anymore.  Let's call it Taiwanese exceptional-ism when talking abut representative governments in Asia.  

Taiwan wouldn't be considered a government , Prayut's pals in Beijing don't recognize Taiwan., so you've only got Japan, who's government was set up under the US system, just different wording.

[yellowboat]

4 hours ago, chainarong said:

Taiwan wouldn't be considered a government , Prayut's pals in Beijing don't recognize Taiwan., so you've only got Japan, who's government was set up under the US system, just different wording.

Prayut's "pals" threaten Taiwan during elections, therefor there is recognition.  They recognize it as a rogue province with a large percentage, electoral turn out.  http://www.electionguide.org/countries/id/209/     

 

The Japanese copied the VCR too.   So ?  What have they gotten wrong so far ?

[cncltd1973]

I thought the headline was about Trump!

[aussieinthailand]

On 2/6/2017 at 0:27 PM, smedly said:

people on here don't necessarily support the Junta as you claim - they support the fact that Thailand is a corrupt cesspit and see no other path for change, no politician that I can think of has either the will or the might to effect the changes that are needed, do I agree with everything the junta is doing ? absolutely not and have made that very clear on here on many occasions but I don't see any other way of Thailand getting the reforms it needs short of an out and out civil war and hoping that the good side wins because if they didn't Thailand could easily take the path of somewhere like N Korea or Burma with some despot dictator taking control.

 

I understand what is driving this media purge (which for the record  I fundamentally disagree with) - the PM cannot deal with being criticised whether right or wrong he sees himself as always being right and wants to shut down/silence  those that  oppose him - the problem of a military man trying to be a politician.

 

There is also the confusing fact that you have divisive organisations and certain divisive people that have an axe to grind and much to gain which  doesn't help matters

 

Nothing is simple in this country especially any solution to its many problems the biggest being the huge amounts of money feeding into elected politicians through corruption and also the very biased Justice system that favours the rich and those in power, but I see no other way forward to effect change, if anyone else sees another path then do share

Well there you go, some of the stuff you say I agree with, and some I don't.

The media should not be controlled by the junta AKA what ever politically correct sounding name they what to give it.

Nor should it be controlled by any one government, Should they have to follow rules and regulations yes...!

This junta leader has come out and said only reporters that separate their rubbish and re-cycling are qualified to ask him questions on a toxic wast issue,  did you read that today?   that along with his fortune teller story.  Delusional is to polite.

And he's running the country...........!