Air Canada apologises for bumping youth off oversold flight - father

[webfact]

Air Canada apologises for bumping youth off oversold flight - father

By Allison Lampert

REUTERS

 

MONTREAL (Reuters) - Air Canada has apologised and offered compensation for bumping a 10-year-old off a flight, the boy's father said on Monday, after the Canadian family's story sparked headlines following a high-profile incident involving overbooking by U.S. carrier United Airlines.

 

Brett Doyle said his family, who first tried unsuccessfully to check in his older son online, was told at the airport there was no seat available for the boy on an oversold flight from Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, to Montreal, where they were connecting to a flight to a Costa Rica vacation last month.

 

The entrepreneur from Prince Edward Island said the family of four then drove to Moncton, New Brunswick, to catch a different flight to Montreal only to discover at the airport that it had been canceled.

 

"I thought it was a joke, that there were hidden cameras or something," he recalled by phone from Charlottetown.

 

Doyle said the family contacted Air Canada, the country's largest carrier, in March, but only received an apology and the offer of a C$2,500 trip voucher after the story was published by a Canadian newspaper on Saturday.

 

Air Canada could not immediately be reached by Reuters for comment. An airline spokeswoman told the Canadian Press: “We are currently following up to understand what went wrong and have apologised to Mr. Doyle and his family as well as offered a very generous compensation to the family for their inconvenience.”

 

Doyle, whose family finally arrived in Montreal and was able to connect to Costa Rica, said he understood the public outcry after a 69-year-old passenger was dragged from his seat on a United plane in Chicago on April 9 to make space for crew members.

 

"People are fed up," he said of airline overbooking. "You shouldn't be able to sell something twice."

 

United's parent company, United Continental Holdings Inc, which is still recovering from the public relations debacle, apologised again on Monday for the passenger's forceful removal, while reporting quarterly earnings.

 

Doyle said the incident on United Flight 3411, which spread rapidly on social media after being shot on video by passengers, resonated with his family. "I ... said things could always be worse," he said after hearing about the United incident. "At least we weren't thrown off the plane."

 

(Reporting by Allison Lampert; Editing by Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-04-18

[khwaibah]

<deleted> does UAL have to do with this. Pure and simple bias by the media. The airline industry world wide has it head stuck up its A#$.

Edited April 18, 2017 by khwaibah

[Rob13]

6 minutes ago, khwaibah said:

<deleted> does UAL have to do with this. 

 

They were the first domino. They'll be mentioned in every bumped passenger story that follows. 

[ddavidovsky]

As I predicted, the world-wide whining has begun.

 

Any change in policy over this issue is going to mean fare increases.

[BEVUP]

49 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

As I predicted, the world-wide whining has begun.

 

Any change in policy over this issue is going to mean fare increases.

& they have a right to whine 

Policy - It's called fraud, something along the lines of the "Shogun " case ( Selling something you dont have in the first place - not a fact of charging twice )

So here you have a family of 4 who may have worked long & hard all year or maybe more with the intention of going on a trip of a life time having planned everything knowing they will eventually get to their destination

Oh but wait they didn't consider one thing - the airline having the right to commit fraud & then turn around & throw of anyone they like (a kid of all things ) 

So in hence it effected the whole family (they weren't going to leave the son behind) 

Lucky the family could afford to buy another round of tickets but to the average Jo Blow I guess they would of had to go home as I'm sure the airline would of only allowed for the 10 yr old to be put on a later plane so he could make the journey himself with all the transfers required ( oh forgot he would of missed that & but maybe the airlines escort for the minor would of taken care of everything )

But hey they got the chance to get 2500 for airlines fraudulent acts 

Wonder how travel insurance would handle this maybe 8000 in flights to start with

[Rob13]

49 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

As I predicted, the world-wide whining has begun.

 

 

 

Yeah, people whining about paying up front for a seat and then being denied service. Like it up the back side do ya?

[impulse]

59 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

As I predicted, the world-wide whining has begun.

 

Any change in policy over this issue is going to mean fare increases.

 

If the airlines were smart, they'd create a new class of ticket -un-bumpable economy- and charge a premium for it.

 

While I agree that overbooking isn't fraud- and it helps keep the cost of tickets down, they often handle it poorly, and it's just another erosion of customer care that has gotten to the point of ridiculous since 9/11 and in the wake of low cost carriers.  

 

Just like sitting on the tarmac for hours and hours before the rules were changed to compensate passengers when it happens.  But that's just in one country...

[BEVUP]

17 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If the airlines were smart, they'd create a new class of ticket -un-bumpable economy- and charge a premium for it.

 

While I agree that overbooking isn't fraud- and it helps keep the cost of tickets down, they often handle it poorly, and it's just another erosion of customer care that has gotten to the point of ridiculous since 9/11 and in the wake of low cost carriers.  

 

Just like sitting on the tarmac for hours and hours before the rules were changed to compensate passengers when it happens.  But that's just in one country...

So ok i suppose if i was to sell my car & made them pay in full well knowing that i already sold the car that wouldn't be fraud or since now that i have 2 or 3 buyers that paid in full I'll just wait for the first one to turn up & offer the others some compensation for their troubles

So at the end of the i would no doubt still be recovering from my injuries whilst the so called buyers lodge a police complaint

[charmonman]

Airline overbooking is legalized fraud, plain and simple. Pointing out that it is wrong is not whining.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

So ok i suppose if i was to sell my car & made them pay in full well knowing that i already sold the car that wouldn't be fraud or since now that i have 2 or 3 buyers that paid in full I'll just wait for the first one to turn up & offer the others some compensation for their troubles

So at the end of the i would no doubt still be recovering from my injuries whilst the so called buyers lodge a police complaint

 

What does it say on your terms and conditions?  

 

In your scenario, you'd owe each of them a functionally and economically equivalent car, plus a $$$ multiple of what they paid you -if you used the airline model- and within 24 hours.  Just not that car.

 

And cars aren't a perishable like airline seats.  You'd still have the car if the buyer didn't show up.  Those airline seats are wasted.

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

What does it say on your terms and conditions?  

 

In your scenario, you'd owe each of them a functionally and economically equivalent car, plus a $$$ multiple of what they paid you -if you used the airline model- and within 24 hours.  Just not that car.

 

And cars aren't a perishable like airline seats.  You'd still have the car if the buyer didn't show up.  Those airline seats are wasted.

Wasted in the eyes that a fully booked & fully paid for flight may take off with a couple of empty seats if someone didnt show up or in this case 3 empty seats as the family had to rescue their son

The only losers were the family as i still see the flight leave with every seat paid for 

[klauskunkel]

just call it what it is: a seat lottery, you pay for your ticket and maybe you win, or maybe you don't

[DoctorG]

9 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Wasted in the eyes that a fully booked & fully paid for flight may take off with a couple of empty seats if someone didnt show up or in this case 3 empty seats as the family had to rescue their son

The only losers were the family as i still see the flight leave with every seat paid for 

 

Exactly. The notion that overselling somehow keeps prices down is ridiculous. The airlines would be totally happy to take off with an empty plane that has had all of its seats pre-paid. (non-refundable of course).

[impulse]

1 minute ago, BEVUP said:

Wasted in the eyes that a fully booked & fully paid for flight may take off with a couple of empty seats if someone didnt show up or in this case 3 empty seats as the family had to rescue their son

The only losers were the family as i still see the flight leave with every seat paid for 

 

Maybe the no-shows are booked and non-refundable, or maybe the no-shows have fully- or partially refundable tickets.

 

Does overbooking suck?  Absolutely.  Was it handled very poorly by the airline?  Yes.  But words (and especially accusations) like fraud have very specific meanings, and this isn't fraud.  Reasonable business practice, idiotically applied would be more accurate.  I look to see some changes in the compensation rules as a result of the recent fallout, but who knows?

 

I had a similar situation many years ago where my wife was bumped with 4 of us traveling together.  I (not so politely) asked them to either bump and compensate all 4 of us so we'd arrive together or get us all on the plane.  Once they knew it was 4 of us together, they popped her into first class.  That was a reasonable way to handle a group traveling together.  

 

Nowadays when I travel, I actually hope to get bumped from most flights I'm on.  I like the money and my schedule isn't usually that critical.

 

[geisha]

Ok, so allow them to " bump" and give 10 000 $ compensation. That should solve their problems. 

[impulse]

12 minutes ago, geisha said:

Ok, so allow them to " bump" and give 10 000 $ compensation. That should solve their problems. 

 

I've participated in a few "auctions" onboard where they kept upping the compensation offer until someone raised their hand.  It's never gone over $2,000 and even that was in travel vouchers- which are pretty cheap for the airline to honor.  

 

My best was $400 check, a free future (restricted- like a frequent flyer trip) R/T ticket to China (that was the route I got bumped from) and a free night at a local hotel to wait for my flight the following day.  The R/T ticket was worth about $1,200, so I figured I netted $1,600 for a minor delay, and nobody was waiting for me anyway.  Still cost the airline peanuts in the scheme of things. 

 

That's a reasonable, humane bumping policy.  I was a happy camper.  No lawsuits, no bad press, no stock price dive, no apology from the CEO...

Edited April 18, 2017 by impulse

[geisha]

Impulse,yes, it's another story though when you have connecting flights or hotels / vacations booked and paid for on the other end. Some people only have a week for holidays !

[lovelomsak]

Makes me wonder how many times do they have to pay out for bumpng people off flights to make overbooking a losing way to business? They will pay thousands to compensate some one who paid hundreds. Every time they do this a full plane is not getting  a full plane price.Bumping and paying one person negates how many paid seats?

[lvr181]

8 hours ago, khwaibah said:

<deleted> does UAL have to do with this. Pure and simple bias by the media. The airline industry world wide has it head stuck up its A#$.

Just showing that Air Canada were not the first idiots to do this.

 

BUT it seems they may have been the first idiots not to learn from United! Some CEOs act like ostriches with their heads buried in the sand.

[Rob13]

Bumping a kid traveling with the family. They knew the parents  wouldn't leave their child behind, so was the airline hoping to get three cancelled fares out of the deal and fill the empty seats? 

[mettech]

Well here we go Air Canada the flagship of the Canadian airline ( wait use to be  and now the worst one in Canada) Every time I m flying out of that country I always look at other alternative first than if there is no other choice I just wait to do my trip later with a different carrier.

air Canada sucks any way.

[Mosha]

does UAL have to do with this. Pure and simple bias by the media. The airline industry world wide has it head stuck up its A#$.

Star Alliance.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[ddavidovsky]

6 hours ago, BEVUP said:

& they have a right to whine 

Policy - It's called fraud, something along the lines of the "Shogun " case ( Selling something you dont have in the first place - not a fact of charging twice )

So here you have a family of 4 who may have worked long & hard all year or maybe more with the intention of going on a trip of a life time having planned everything knowing they will eventually get to their destination

Oh but wait they didn't consider one thing - the airline having the right to commit fraud & then turn around & throw of anyone they like (a kid of all things ) 

So in hence it effected the whole family (they weren't going to leave the son behind) 

Lucky the family could afford to buy another round of tickets but to the average Jo Blow I guess they would of had to go home as I'm sure the airline would of only allowed for the 10 yr old to be put on a later plane so he could make the journey himself with all the transfers required ( oh forgot he would of missed that & but maybe the airlines escort for the minor would of taken care of everything )

But hey they got the chance to get 2500 for airlines fraudulent acts 

Wonder how travel insurance would handle this maybe 8000 in flights to start with

Enjoy your whine? Personal dignity not an issue for you?

It's not fraud because the policies on this are quite clear. It's always happened, we've always known it happens, and it's done to maximise revenue in a volatile business. Appropriate compensation is provided. I don't see a moral problem, although clearly the whiners - people so self-entitled that they can't accept anything that goes against their idealised version of the world - are going to invent one.

Fact is that preventing airlines maximising revenue in this way is going to translate into higher fares. Passenger tantrums are doing everyone a disfavour.

 

[BEVUP]

2 hours ago, Rob13 said:

Bumping a kid traveling with the family. They knew the parents  wouldn't leave their child behind, so was the airline hoping to get three cancelled fares out of the deal and fill the empty seats? 

Yeh exactly & I hope it happens to those that say its all ok that their child got bumped & their got the choice of leaving him at the airport or all forfeit their flight for a total of 2500 because they were only bumping one

Would they also be willing to gamble that the airline are going to fix up a new connecting flight as in this case

 

[ddavidovsky]

Has it occurred to anyone that you may have got your seat in the past because of the overbooking system?

 

My calculus is rusty but perhaps someone can mathematically prove that passengers are more likely to be advantaged by the system - overall - than disadvantaged?

[BEVUP]

22 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Enjoy your whine? Personal dignity not an issue for you?

It's not fraud because the policies on this are quite clear. It's always happened, we've always known it happens, and it's done to maximise revenue in a volatile business. Appropriate compensation is provided. I don't see a moral problem, although clearly the whiners - people so self-entitled that they can't accept anything that goes against their idealised version of the world - are going to invent one.

Fact is that preventing airlines maximising revenue in this way is going to translate into higher fares. Passenger tantrums are doing everyone a disfavour.

 

You obviously have no idea 

So tell me if you sold every ticket for a performance you were to do & had a full house how would you lose money (oh maybe raise the price on the next show)

Personal dignity - you might want to as the airlines if they have any instead of gambling on peoples travel ( maybe we'll just over book in the event some will no show)

[BEVUP]

3 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Has it occurred to anyone that you may have got your seat in the past because of the overbooking system?

 

My calculus is rusty but perhaps someone can mathematically prove that passengers are more likely to be advantaged by the system - overall - than disadvantaged?

When is black white it's either full or not no need to leave the public in limbo Let them have the choice of making a garenteed travel plan not wait till they get to the airport to find out they were <deleted> over & come to think of it i have been on planes that were suppose to be fully booked going of the airlines web sight to find out there were still a few seats left

[Trouble]

The whole overbooking situation could be solved very easily.  They should do like the hotels.  Hotels offer options.  One generally reserves a room with a credit card. Various options let you get a room with no refund if you don't show you forfeit or you can cancel up to so many days before and get various degrees of refunds.  Point is you book and don't show and don't meet the required rules you loose the purchase price.  Airlines could easily set rules that would allow passengers to take options.  They do that already to some degree when they sell full fare tickets that are refundable/changeable.  They just need to refine the structure, put some rules in place which help both the customer and the airline and are fair to both.  I don't really understand who buys tickets and just does not show without changing the reservation.  I wish someone in the airline industries could explain this.  Also the fees to change reservations in some cases have become really outrageous so that needs to be addressed as well.  Airlines should expect passengers to meet their obligations and airlines should structure their ticket sales to reflect that fact that things happen which make cancelling a reservation necessary.  It's a matter of creating a timeline and fee structure for the cost of cancelling or changing a reservation.  If I buy a ticket, don't show for the flight, am charged for the ticket, the airline should not be able to sell the seat either.  It's time the current business model for ticket sales was modified.  

[Stargeezr]

Air Canada is greedy, just like the airlines in the USA, Them and West Jet both charge for luggage, for domestic flights.

  I was wondering just how much they over book, and this story of the 10 year old getting bumped is just confirming

how this Canadian based airline is as greedy as the American based airlines.  I am ashamed that an airline like Air

Canada, which had government backing for so many years, is so greedy, and money hungry for profits. Shameful.

Geezer

[Rob13]

10 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yeh exactly & I hope it happens to those that say its all ok that their child got bumped & their got the choice of leaving him at the airport or all forfeit their flight for a total of 2500 because they were only bumping one

Would they also be willing to gamble that the airline are going to fix up a new connecting flight as in this case

 

 

I'm not sure but I think the old guy that got bumped from the UA flight was travelling with his wife, UA was most likely making the same bet that they'd leave together, opening up another seat.