Trump says U.S. to withdraw from Paris climate accord

[CGW]

23 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Not sure that is strictly true.  Obama was well respected outside of the USA, the problem really is Trump and his mob.  The Iraq fiasco under Bush did an enormous amount of damage to America's credibility and now with Trump the hole gets considerably deeper.

I would disagree, I'm not sure how Obama - "Mr Change" has all of a sudden been elevated to having been great politician? he certainly took care of the right people - the bankers! He managed to double the national debt! and helped promote ISIS, his relationship with Saudi was a disgrace, but hey he killed Osama and dumped his body at sea! No everybody bought into a lot of his antics you know! were not all "Liberals".

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, CGW said:

I would disagree, I'm not sure how Obama - "Mr Change" has all of a sudden been elevated to having been great politician? he certainly took care of the right people - the bankers! He managed to double the national debt! and helped promote ISIS, his relationship with Saudi was a disgrace, but hey he killed Osama and dumped his body at sea! No everybody bought into a lot of his antics you know! were not all "Liberals".

If you bothered reading my post properly you will see that I said that Obama was well respected outside the USA.  Obviously the ill informed domestic population made their own minds up about the man. 

 

So how do you think Trump is doing?  Better job than Obama?  If your answer is yes then I think it is best to leave it there, don't you?

[mfd101]

11 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

He's just doing what he was elected to do. Which is rare in politics.

Yes, making America little again.

[jerojero]

Of course I am. And it seems others like BP, Exxon Mobile, GE etc. agree with me.

Wrong. Exxon CEO on Trump's own Business Advisory Council told Trump not to withdraw!

[CGW]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

If you bothered reading my post properly you will see that I said that Obama was well respected outside the USA.  Obviously the ill informed domestic population made their own minds up about the man. 

 

So how do you think Trump is doing?  Better job than Obama?  If your answer is yes then I think it is best to leave it there, don't you?

I did read your post "properly" I have no idea what the "ill informed" think of Obama? I take it you are one of the well "informed?

How is Trump doing? no idea, hard to actually read anything about what he is doing apart from the endless criticism from the sore losers, or thats the appearance us non Americans get!

Leave it there !

[iReason]

21 minutes ago, CGW said:

How is Trump doing? no idea, hard to actually read anything about what he is doing apart from the endless criticism from the sore losers,

or thats the appearance us non Americans get!

 

Clearly, by your post, you have chosen to be uninformed. (big ol' internet right there at your fingertips)

 

Instead, you prefer to just make stuff up:

" thats the appearance us non Americans get! "

 

All non Americans?

I think not. No, in fact I'm certain it's not.

 

[JetsetBkk]

29 minutes ago, CGW said:

39 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

If you bothered reading my post properly you will see that I said that Obama was well respected outside the USA.  Obviously the ill informed domestic population made their own minds up about the man. 

 

So how do you think Trump is doing?  Better job than Obama?  If your answer is yes then I think it is best to leave it there, don't you?

I did read your post "properly" I have no idea what the "ill informed" think of Obama? I take it you are one of the well "informed?

How is Trump doing? no idea, hard to actually read anything about what he is doing apart from the endless criticism from the sore losers, or thats the appearance us non Americans get!

Leave it there !

Obama was a fantastic speaker, brilliant orator, excellent reader of other peoples' speeches on a teleprompter.

Pity about his party's policies.

 

Trump is a lousy speaker, but passable reader of other peoples' speeches on a teleprompter.

How is he doing? All you have to do is look at the stock market. Funny how the left never talk about it.

 

[riclag]

11 hours ago, dcutman said:

Its a non binding, non enforceable agreement. So whats the big deal about?

BTW, have we not already past the point of no return on climate change?

 

OB, signed the deal but it never went through Congress to become  law.So Trump being a environmentalist want's to renegotiate this deal in a financial responsible way and then bring it in front of Congress to debate it.That's reasonable.In the mean time we have to honor the agreement for 3 years 

[CGW]

11 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Clearly, by your post, you have chosen to be uninformed. (big ol' internet right there at your fingertips)

 

Instead, you prefer to just make stuff up:

" thats the appearance us non Americans get! "

 

All non Americans?

I think not. No, in fact I'm certain it's not.

 

A degree of sarcasm there old bean! you believe yourself to be very well informed, I believe (thanks to "big ol" Internet') that politics gives people an illusion of choice, they actually believe there opinion counts and will make a huge difference! 555

The same people are still in charge regardless, no matter who the mouthpiece is, just my opinion.

You appear to find it impossible to accept any viewpoints apart from those you have decided are facts, to the point you accuse me of "making up stuff"!

Have a nice day.

[sujoop]

3 hours ago, 55Jay said:

 

9 hours ago, sujoop said:

Military experts say climate change poses 'significant risk' to security

A coalition of 25 military and national security experts, including former advisers to Ronald Reagan and George W Bush, has warned that climate change poses a “significant risk to US national security and international security” that requires more attention from the US federal government.
 

The prominent members of the US national security community warned that warming temperatures and rising seas will increasingly inundate military bases and fuel international conflict and mass migration, leading to “significant and direct risks to US military readiness, operations and strategy”.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/sep/14/military-experts-climate-change-significant-security-risk

 

Military Leaders Urge Trump to See Climate as a Security Threat

Stresses from climate change can increase the likelihood of international or civil conflict, state failure, mass migration and instability in strategically significant areas around the world, the defense experts argue.
 

Many military leaders say that considering climate change and renewable energy has made their branches more resilient fighting forces and bureaucracies, starting with reducing emissions and creating a nimble fighting culture that is less dependent on fossil fuels.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/military-leaders-urge-trump-to-see-climate-as-a-security-threat/

------------------

Thus one assumes Trump's too clever by half supporters who's main pillar is anti-refugee/immigrant etc would thrust their doors open if (or rather when) people start (or rather ramp-up) displacement,  fights over climate change affected areas, dwindling resources, fresh water, etc....

After all that, your point fails because it relies on a ubiquitous distortion. 

 

 

 

 

Was merely pointing out the FACT (something Trumpsters stumble with;) that even Trump's own top General and all the strategic military planners are saying climate change is not only real, it IS already having a real effect, predicting results will eventually bring further instability in already unstable regions, plus increased migration (read: the dreaded 'refugees/immigrants', which ironically forms a key pillar of Trump's support)
 

However, Steve Bannon (plus a desire to 'WHITE-OUT'  anything Obama's fingers touched) obviously Trump's mere science and even one's own top General & military strategists... Memories of another Trump boast 'I know MORE than the Generals, believe me'...

 

[iReason]

20 minutes ago, CGW said:

You appear to find it impossible to accept any viewpoints apart from those you have decided are facts, to the point you accuse me of "making up stuff"!

 

You gathered all that from my one post did you?

Interesting...

 

The fact I was commenting on, was you presuming to speak for all non-Americans.

[sujoop]

'Trump still appears to be siding with Bannon and his allies, and the chief strategist might be able to count this as a victory for his nationalistic method of governing.'

http://www.businessinsider.com/bannon-trump-paris-climate-agreement-2017-6

 

 

 

 

[owl sees all]

41 minutes ago, CGW said:

The same people are still in charge regardless, no matter who the mouthpiece is, just my opinion.

Correct Sir!! The same people have been in charge since that awful day in 1913.

 

If Pres. Trump even thinks about steping out of line the secret service guys will usher him into a quiet room and show him previously unseen footage of JFK's assassination.

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

I did read your post "properly" I have no idea what the "ill informed" think of Obama? I take it you are one of the well "informed?

I am not American, therefore my view is based on the international perspective of Obama that was very positive.  I guess it depends on where we garner our information and clearly your sources are different from mine.  Maybe we should leave it there as we see the American situation very differently, and both of us non American! Go figure eh!

[tomacht8]

Massachusetts Institute of Technology officials said U.S. President Donald Trump badly misunderstood their research when he cited it on Thursday to justify withdrawing the United States from the Paris Climate Agreement.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-trump-misunderstood-mit-climate-research-university-officials-say-2017-6

 

Blessed is the brainless.

Edited June 2, 2017 by tomacht8

[Ramen087]

3 hours ago, sujoop said:

 

Not just this forum, the majority in the U.S. and the world are sadly laughing too. Trump supporters just don't 'get it' why the vast majority  deservedly laugh (or sadly shake heads) at a President who proclaims 'A NEW era in energy'  while prioritizing bringing back a few sunset coal jobs...

 

Or laugh when Ivanka says 'I'm very proud of my father's advocacy for women'...

Or when Sean Spicer claims it was 'the largest inauguration in history'...

Or, wonder why the whole audience laughs when Kellyanne Conway complains about 'liars' while offering 'alternative facts' ... (to which she reacted perplexed, not 'getting' why everyone was laughing;)

 

Could also add endless buffoonery and self-boasting Trump tweets as well. Bottom line: Trump has reduced America to a laughing stock and if one is not embarrassed, aware, or disturbed by this, one must be suffering from Kellyane syndrome above...

    OFF TOPIC... Post this crap on a different thread.       

 

Your token coal comment is beneath the level of the thread & the analogies are unrelated to the topic at hand.

Help please, this thread is about the USA leaving the Paris Accord, not Bannon etc etc. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ramen087

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, jerojero said:

Wrong. Exxon CEO on Trump's own Business Advisory Council told Trump not to withdraw!

Which is what I said, they don't agree with Trump.

[buick]

4 hours ago, CGW said:

I don't know if you realise this but America is not well thought of by the "rest of the planet" regardless of what Trump does or doesn't do!

"Your" actions over the past 25 years+ haven't been very well received by most, could you not have a change of policy and look internally at the mess your country and people are in and stop trying to be the worlds policeman?

Stop having such high opinions of yourselves, its really not very admirable you know!

Thank you.

i'm an american and i couldn't have said it better myself. i think the USA has to pull back similar to the UK letting go of their 'leadership' many decades ago.  why should we tell china and russia how to handle their affairs when we can't handle our own ?  and the blame does not fall solely with who is president of the USA, the congress, the senate, the federal reserve, etc..  have all performed horribly.  a boom, a bust, a war, a boom, a bust, a war, etc....  it is ridiculous.

 

as for the topic of the climate deal, i'm no expert but it doesn't sound like much of a deal when the actions under the agreement are voluntary (do i have that right ?  no penalties if targets aren't met ? for all i know i'm reading fake news !!!).  i realize you've got to start somewhere, and maybe this is the way to go.  but it reminds me of a new years resolution where people say they won't drink booze for a month, and then two weeks later, they are back on the booze.  good effort though.

 

and i love how this guy juncker says the US can't get out of the deal for three years.  if all the targets and such are voluntary, can't a country just fail to achieve the target and thereby be 'out of the agreement'.  it is simply a battle of ego between trump and juncker.  so classic.  you can't leave, yes i can, no you can't, yes i can !!! 

 

 

 

 

 

[CGW]

2 hours ago, iReason said:

The fact I was commenting on, was you presuming to speak for all non-Americans.

All? where did I ever say that? I do apoligise if you read it that way, I would never be so presumptuous to speak for all! I said us not sure how that turns into all.

[Jingthing]

 

One wonders if trumpists are tired of all the "winning" yet?

 

Quote

 

The planet loses, but U.S. is bigger loser if it withdraws from Paris climate agreement

...

Climate change is a great equalizer — irrespective of which groups make efforts to reduce it, the effects will be shared equally by the global population. But equally, climate change and the need for decarbonization will change the face of the global economy in the coming decades. This will create winners and losers, and those who adapt fastest will be the superpowers of the coming century. By withdrawing from Paris, the United States would be betting on a future in which climate change is going to go away, and that is one thing we are sure is not going to happen.

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2017/05/31/the-planet-loses-but-u-s-is-bigger-loser-if-it-withdraws-from-paris-climate-agreement/

[iReason]

42 minutes ago, CGW said:

All? where did I ever say that? I do apoligise if you read it that way, I would never be so presumptuous to speak for all! I said us not sure how that turns into all.

 

Ponder on it.

 

Hopefully it will sink in...

[Trouble]

A certain amount of what Trump did was purely political, something he promised to do during his campaign. Part of it was to undo regulations which are costly on business and manufacturing.  It does little to have a nice feel good agreement when there are all sorts of exceptions like allowing China years of exemptions. Trump's current focus is on restarting the economic engine. Personally, had it been me, I would have stayed in and just dismantled some of the regulations quietly over time and not enforced others until the economy is running at full speed. I certainly would not have paid billions of dollars out as some attempt to balance emissions. I have no idea how the people go about measuring emissions by country but I would bet it's somewhat flawed. My gut feeling is that the whole climate change issue is  something that cannot be controlled by unenforceable treaties. Obama should have put the damn treaty before Congress, but he did not want to do that. You reap what you sow.  Countries like the US, issue regulations, force industry to follow them at great cost but the little countries like Thailand for example, issue regulations for show and then enforce nothing with business as usual.  Many of the regulations being forced on industry at great cost would take place over time as new technology is developed.  Innovation is really the thing that drives change not regulations.  

 

Quite frankly, I am not worried about the planet 200 or 500 years from now.  Animal and plant life will adapt. People on the other hand will have a tougher time but then mankind has been raping the planet for generations now, wiping out forests, killing off the animal life, and  polluting the place.   Maybe an adjustment is needed in the human population. Mankind is really the scourge of planet. 

[iReason]

18 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Animal and plant life will adapt.

People on the other hand will have a tougher time but then mankind has been raping the planet for generations now,

wiping out forests, killing off the animal life, and  polluting the place.

Mankind is really the scourge of planet. 

 

You got that right. 

[tomacht8]

42 minutes ago, Trouble said:

Cut quote

 

Quite frankly, I am not worried about the planet 200 or 500 years from now.  Animal and plant life will adapt. People on the other hand will have a tougher time but then mankind has been raping the planet for generations now, wiping out forests, killing off the animal life, and  polluting the place.   Maybe an adjustment is needed in the human population. Mankind is really the scourge of planet. 

 

The earth will continue to turn, with or without people on it.
Maybe an adjustment in the human population coming soon.
I have no interest in WW3.
But it looks gloomy.
3 US aircraft carrier assemblies are taking place in front of Koreas coast.
The Russians are moving tank units to their west coast.
 

[the guest]

Don't think it will make any difference, now the planet has already tipped beyond the point of no return with global warming and all.

[55Jay]

4 hours ago, sujoop said:

 

 

 

Was merely pointing out the FACT (something Trumpsters stumble with;) that even Trump's own top General and all the strategic military planners are saying climate change is not only real, it IS already having a real effect, predicting results will eventually bring further instability in already unstable regions, plus increased migration (read: the dreaded 'refugees/immigrants', which ironically forms a key pillar of Trump's support)
 

However, Steve Bannon (plus a desire to 'WHITE-OUT'  anything Obama's fingers touched) obviously Trump's mere science and even one's own top General & military strategists... Memories of another Trump boast 'I know MORE than the Generals, believe me'...

 

Well, that settles it then, doesn't it!  LOL. 

 

The point you were made originally, however, which you've side stepped, was based on regurgitated nonsense. 

 

At any rate, don't put too much stock in the guy in your photo above^.  TVF Member, I believe it was iReason (but I might be wrong about that) just a couple short weeks ago, said he was "senile".   So anything's possible at this point. 

[iReason]

20 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

TVF Member, I believe it was iReason (but I might be wrong about that) just a couple short weeks ago, said he was "senile".

 

Nope. Not me.

[sandrabbit]

watching cnn live, why won't anyone answer does Trump believe that global warming is a hoax, it's making him look like a chimp again?. talking about exporting clean coal technology, what technology?. 

 

I feel sorry for Sean Spicer, he must be on valium or similar.

 

pps edit - the epa guy quoted an article from the New York Times, I was expecting all the reporters to shout 'FAKE NEWS!'.

Edited June 2, 2017 by sandrabbit

[DogNo1]

Did everybody miss Trump on CBS news saying that America WOULD become a green country - one of the greenest.

 

What's with the hysteria?  So Trump puts some coal miners back to work.  The scientific research toward producing green energy, developing varieties of coral that can thrive in warm water, exploiting the soil and hybridizing food crops that can grow with less water will continue apace.  And what is economically feasible will emerge.  Coal mining will probably stop in the USA at some point but in the meantime, those miners need work!  Keeping people working and changing slowly is well understood by Japan's leaders whose aim is to avoid social disruption and human suffering.

Cut Trump some slack and think of various perspectives of what he does, not what he says.  Trump seems to instinctively understand that good jobs promote self-respect and that even people who can't adapt to the requirements of new technical jobs need good jobs and self-respect.  We need to stop worrying about what the Europeans think of us.  They have disparaged us for the past 50 years.  We need to worry less about how little they think of us because they have never thought much of us.  If being the leader of the free world means spending more and sacrificing more, maybe we need to step back and let Germany, France and others assume that burden.  Our children have been short of school supplies because of the horrific amount of money that we spend on foreign affairs.  Just think about the three billion per month that we put into Afghanistan.  Of course we shouldn't abandon our foreign obligations but, as Trump says, partners should contribute more.  America really needs to repair her infrastructure and prioritize the infrastructure needs ahead of leading the free world.  America is a great country.  After it recovers from its self-neglect, it will be an important player for helping with the world's needs again.

[sandrabbit]

1 minute ago, DogNo1 said:

 Our children have been short of school supplies because of the horrific amount of money that we spend on foreign affairs.  Just think about the three billion per month that we put into Afghanistan.

Please ask G.W. Bush Jr the answer to that question ( I include our ex prime minister Blair in that).