What's going on inside CentralWorld? Lots of boarded up spaces!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Anyone have any idea what's going on inside CentralWorld these days?

 

I'm asking because, the wife and I stopped by there today, and very large sections of the mall that used to be filled with operating shops on various floors (not just in one area) have now been closed and boarded up.

 

I didn't stop to ask about every missing shop, because the number had to be in the many dozens. But one particularly noticeable absence was the large Haagen Dazs ice cream cafe in CW on the 3rd floor that had been there for a long time, which is now entirely vacated/vanished.

 

So on the way out, I stopped at the info desk and asked the girl there, "What happened to HD?"  Had it moved to some other part of the mall as part of some reorganization/restructuring? And she replied, NO, the shop simply closed and had not relocated to anywhere else in CW.

 

So I guess the question is, why suddenly are there dozens of empty/vanished business shops in CentralWorld?

[observer90210]

Were they losing business due to lack of customers and overcharged prices?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Were they losing business due to lack of customers and overcharged prices?

There's usually lots of traffic in CW whenever I'm in there.  It's the kind of appearance that almost makes me think Central came along with some kind of big rent/lease fees hike, and it pushed folks out.

 

I had one restaurant I liked quite a bit that opened there for a few months, and then disappeared a month or so back. In that case, they relocated to Silom Complex. Dunno why, or if it was related to now what appears to be a much broader changing of occupancy there.

 

Most of the boarded up shops are the ones along the walls. So I thought, perhaps they're needing to do some kind of major renovation/systems work that requires the tenants to vacate. But the now missing Haagen Dazs shop was an open air/corridor location without any enclosed walls, so that wouldn't have been a factor in their departure.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2017 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[observer90210]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There's usually lots of traffic in CW whenever I'm in there.  It's the kind of appearance that almost makes me think Central came along with some kind of big rent/lease fees hike, and it pushed folks out.

 

I had one restaurant I liked quite a bit that opened there for a few months, and then disappeared a month or so back. In that case, they relocated to Silom Complex. Dunno why, or if it was related to now what appears to be a much broader changing of occupancy there.

 

Ok...if it is the rent hikes then prices could then increase with time when the new merchants set up....

[SiamBeast]

I noticed that too last time I went - dunno, I'd be curious to know why.

[shadowofacloud]

They are closing it down. The buildings will be subsequently demolished and the area turned into a public park. ;-)

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, shadowofacloud said:

They are closing it down. The buildings will be subsequently demolished and the area turned into a public park. ;-)

Hope nobody actually believes that.  

For those with long memories that location had the first Daimaru Department Store in Bangkok in the 1960's.

[impulse]

10 hours ago, observer90210 said:

Were they losing business due to lack of customers and overcharged prices?

 

I'd be more inclined to believe they're losing customers to all the shiny new malls within a 10-15 minute BTS ride.  Terminal 21 and EmQuartier have to be drawing some customers away who used to pass right by Prom Pong and Asoke to get to Central World.

 

And if Lazada ever gets their act together (or Amazon opens up a facility), I can see a time when all the malls are selling is food, coffee, free air conditioning and a chance to handle the goods before ordering them online at a discount.

 

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

And if Lazada ever gets their act together (or Amazon opens up a facility), I can see a time when all the malls are selling is food, coffee, free air conditioning and a chance to handle the goods before ordering them online at a discount.

Actually it is not just Lazada (although they may be the top player - especially in English) as there are many mail order choices now - and this is not limited to Thailand - most major retailers in USA are reducing number of stores or closing.  The internet has updated and revived the old Sears mail order model.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I pay attention to the malls industry in the U.S. for investment reasons. Suffice to say, the most widely held belief is that the current retail contraction at the stores level is likely to hit the lower-level, less premier malls. And that the top end "destination" malls should continue to do just fine even if it means replacing troubled tenants with new ones. The demand is there.

 

As for Thailand and online retailers, at the rate Thailand 4.0 is going (or should I say Thailand 0.5), I don't think the local malls have much to worry about in that regard, at least for the foreseeable future. Ain't no Amazon in Thailand.

 

As for local mall competition, I'm sure T21 and EmQuartier are having some effect on CW. But frankly, I'm in CW pretty regularly, and it's not like it looks empty or less visited now than in the past. (Though buying may be a separate issue).  The food outlets and restaurants seem to be pretty well used, though it's harder to tell about the regular retail store outlets and their business levels.

 

The strange part about the current look of CW though, is it's not pockets of closed stores/shops, like one vacancy here and one vacancy there. When I was there yesterday, there were quite a few areas where long, long sections of storefronts were all boarded up -- lengths that previously would have involved many many different retail shops, now all gone. That makes it seem like something broader is going on.

 

[lopburi3]

 

Quote

 

Possible battle between Amazon and Alibaba-controlled firm in ...

www.businessinsider.com/possible-battle-between-amazon-and-alibaba-controlled-fir...

1.  

Mar 25, 2017 - Amazon has reportedly been eyeing a launch in Southeast Asia sometime ... and an Alibaba-controlled firm might be coming soon to Thailand.

 

It could be closer than we think.  And CW is not a local mall - very hard to reach for shopping in the traffic of Bangkok today - which is why Central was moving to small malls such as Festival East Ville in Latphao opened last year as well as renovating (again) there old Latphao Mall.  From my casual observation not many paying customers anywhere these days (and they no longer attract upcountry customers as shopping centers now are in every large city).

 

It is not just Amazon type competition but every Thai with a source of things to sell is offering on Facebook these days - and although it is not a central registry of goods it is huge with no overhead (and likely no tax).  

Edited July 1, 2017 by lopburi3

[planr]

They are undertaking a massive centre-wide renovation over the next year or so, bit by bit. See slide 21 here  -http://cpn.listedcompany.com/misc/presentation/20170309-cpn-oppday-4q2016.pdf

[hansnl]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There's usually lots of traffic in CW whenever I'm in there.  It's the kind of appearance that almost makes me think Central came along with some kind of big rent/lease fees hike, and it pushed folks out.

 

I had one restaurant I liked quite a bit that opened there for a few months, and then disappeared a month or so back. In that case, they relocated to Silom Complex. Dunno why, or if it was related to now what appears to be a much broader changing of occupancy there.

 

Most of the boarded up shops are the ones along the walls. So I thought, perhaps they're needing to do some kind of major renovation/systems work that requires the tenants to vacate. But the now missing Haagen Dazs shop was an open air/corridor location without any enclosed walls, so that wouldn't have been a factor in their departure.

 

 

It is all a case of too high rents and not enough turnover/profit.

[little mary sunshine]

On line shopping. Welcome to 2017!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, planr said:

They are undertaking a massive centre-wide renovation over the next year or so, bit by bit. See slide 21 here  -http://cpn.listedcompany.com/misc/presentation/20170309-cpn-oppday-4q2016.pdf

Thanks very much!!!  That certainly would explain the appearances there of long strips of boarded up shops....

Looks like it's going to be somewhat messy at CW for the next year or so....

 

 

One of the things that always gets me about some malls here, and elsewhere, is the haphazard way their tenants are located. So you go to the mall wanting to buy shoes. And instead of the various shoe shops being clustered together in one area, you find one is here, one is there, and one's at the opposite end of the mall on a different floor. Hopefully that kind of solution is part of their plans.

 

[brewsterbudgen]

I work at Centralworld. The boarded off areas are being refurbished. Many have already re-opened.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I work at Centralworld. The boarded off areas are being refurbished. Many have already re-opened.

Many may have re-opened, I can't say about that.

 

But after walking thru there yesterday, I certainly can say there are very large and long stretches of mall corridors where all the shops have vanished and been replaced by the usual decorated walls. That's certainly what you'd expect to see when they're going about refurbishing the place, presumably they'd do it areas by areas at a time. They're certainly not going to close the whole place for a year plus!!!

 

[Bangkok Barry]

 

They did something very similar at Central Bang Na a few years ago. A lot of places closed for a re-modeling exercise.

[observer90210]

8 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

I pay attention to the malls industry in the U.S. for investment reasons. Suffice to say, the most widely held belief is that the current retail contraction at the stores level is likely to hit the lower-level, less premier malls. And that the top end "destination" malls should continue to do just fine even if it means replacing troubled tenants with new ones. The demand is there.

 

As for Thailand and online retailers, at the rate Thailand 4.0 is going (or should I say Thailand 0.5), I don't think the local malls have much to worry about in that regard, at least for the foreseeable future. Ain't no Amazon in Thailand.

 

As for local mall competition, I'm sure T21 and EmQuartier are having some effect on CW. But frankly, I'm in CW pretty regularly, and it's not like it looks empty or less visited now than in the past. (Though buying may be a separate issue).  The food outlets and restaurants seem to be pretty well used, though it's harder to tell about the regular retail store outlets and their business levels.

 

The strange part about the current look of CW though, is it's not pockets of closed stores/shops, like one vacancy here and one vacancy there. When I was there yesterday, there were quite a few areas where long, long sections of storefronts were all boarded up -- lengths that previously would have involved many many different retail shops, now all gone. That makes it seem like something broader is going on.

 

quite true what you say about slow internet retail progress, should it be the cheap jack, 0 quality  stuff from AliBaba or Amazon who crashes prices....I have purchased from both, but get the stuff sent to my second home in Europe...

 

Thanks to the highly ruthless and perhaps a bit corrupt Thai customs, a flagrant inefficiency of the Thai Post in some areas or certain days (despite good experiences that many would come forward here and cite)...online trade is not going to outthrone retail in Thailand, IMHO.....

Edited July 1, 2017 by observer90210

[observer90210]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I work at Centralworld. The boarded off areas are being refurbished. Many have already re-opened.

Haven't been there for some time...does CW have as large a furniture floor as MBK?

 

 

[NoBrainer]

Wait till you see MBK. Half of the Telephone shops on the 4th floor are gone, now with daily crackdowns on pirated goods, there will be many more shops in other parts of the mall closing soon.

 

Thai economy is suffering, despite whatever numbers the finance guru's are pushing. Many small business owners can't make ends meet anymore. The big banks refuse to write off decades old NPL's

and just keep restructuring them so as not to have to show how bad things really are. The high value tourists are drying up. Thailand is trying too hard to become westernized. The things

that have been attractive to foreigners over many years, are just dissapearing.  10,000 bus loads of Chinese, is not an economic windfall. Probably only break even, when all is considered.

 

It's is somewhat a house of cards, just waiting for a big gust of wind.

 

Being an optimist, I'm not usually this pessimistic either, but seems like the writing is on the wall.

 

 

[connda]

Malls get greedy, push their rents past the point where retailers can make a living profit, retailers bail, mall is left with empty and unfillable shops.  Mall languishes, Mall sells land and exits with a capital gain, new owner tears now old mall and replaces it with....???

[Prometheus33]

19 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There's usually lots of traffic in CW whenever I'm in there.  It's the kind of appearance that almost makes me think Central came along with some kind of big rent/lease fees hike, and it pushed folks out.

 

I had one restaurant I liked quite a bit that opened there for a few months, and then disappeared a month or so back. In that case, they relocated to Silom Complex. Dunno why, or if it was related to now what appears to be a much broader changing of occupancy there.

 

Most of the boarded up shops are the ones along the walls. So I thought, perhaps they're needing to do some kind of major renovation/systems work that requires the tenants to vacate. But the now missing Haagen Dazs shop was an open air/corridor location without any enclosed walls, so that wouldn't have been a factor in their departure.

 

 The past few trips to Bangkok we have been staying at the Centara Grande @ CentralWorld .. Found it very convenient to nip down to level 7 (I think) for a quick bite at " Sizzlers" .. They are no longer there .. Gone,  as well !!   

[observer90210]

41 minutes ago, NoBrainer said:

Wait till you see MBK. Half of the Telephone shops on the 4th floor are gone, now with daily crackdowns on pirated goods, there will be many more shops in other parts of the mall closing soon.

 

Thai economy is suffering, despite whatever numbers the finance guru's are pushing. Many small business owners can't make ends meet anymore. The big banks refuse to write off decades old NPL's

and just keep restructuring them so as not to have to show how bad things really are. The high value tourists are drying up. Thailand is trying too hard to become westernized. The things

that have been attractive to foreigners over many years, are just dissapearing.  10,000 bus loads of Chinese, is not an economic windfall. Probably only break even, when all is considered.

 

It's is somewhat a house of cards, just waiting for a big gust of wind.

 

Being an optimist, I'm not usually this pessimistic either, but seems like the writing is on the wall.

 

 

Very good analysis.....

 

Why would a tourist on holiday in  Thailand/ or a part-time expat spend in Thai Malls, if retail prices are the same or close to the same as in their western homelands ????....And if the other goodies that attracted tourists are shut down or seized....well....everybody is free to make their own analysis on the revenue outcomes!!!

 

High level tourists go to Monaco,  south of France, the Caymans....it is the western middle-class spenders, who are much higher in numbers,  who partially contributed to the prosperity of the country. But Thailand is obviously aiming catering the Chinese tourists and destroying all that initially attracted westeners in Thailand, as you rightfully say.....

 

One could speculate that in a near future, the smart Chinese, after observing how Thailand works, will come up with a series of artificially built Chinese sea resorts, loosen tourist, retiree visa rules, crash consumer retail prices (as they already have), and grab all the western tourists/expats/retirees that Thailand is currently ignoring while catering the Chinese. Time will see but it may be too late...

Edited July 1, 2017 by observer90210

[henry15]

9 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

Hope nobody actually believes that.  

For those with long memories that location had the first Daimaru Department Store in Bangkok in the 1960's.

No it wass not. Thai Dammaru wass, were now BigC is located

[janclaes47]

20 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Anyone have any idea what's going on inside CentralWorld these days?

 

 

Because they finally discovered that trees don't grow to the sky.

 

The Thai economy is suffering, and Thais have no purchasing power any more, yet they keep building new malls as if there is no tomorrow.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

57 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Haven't been there for some time...does CW have as large a furniture floor as MBK?

 

 

They did....  Not sure about at present... But seriously, yes, they do have a similar furniture floor. Not sure about comparing their relative sizes.

 

 I didn't notice yesterday how much, if at all, the furniture floor at CW is being affected right now by the current renovations. It's usually a section I only pass thru on my way up or down to other floors. From past window shopping there, the prices are pretty dear.

 

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, henry15 said:

No it wass not. Thai Dammaru wass, were now BigC is located

Your memory does not extend back far enough.  Actually it moved to that new built underground shopping center location behind Gaysorn later - this is the original store opened in 1966 which I believe was the first use of an escalator in Thailand (Central used a wooden staircase until the 70's).  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

35 minutes ago, connda said:

Malls get greedy, push their rents past the point where retailers can make a living profit, retailers bail, mall is left with empty and unfillable shops.  Mall languishes, Mall sells land and exits with a capital gain, new owner tears now old mall and replaces it with....???

 

I don't think anyone's going to be tearing down CW soon, especially if Central is planning to put - + 2 billion baht into its renovation.

 

But the thing I did wonder about is -- what happens with all the merchants who get booted out of their retail space while Central is doing their re-do?  What happens to their employees during that dead time as well?  And what proportion of the places that get booted out in these kinds of deals eventually end up coming back?

 

In my earlier post, I mentioned the disappearance of the large free-standing, open-air Haagen Dazs shop at CW. I don't know if their recent departure is related to the renovation project or not. But I did ask the info counter girl if they had relocated or anything like that. And she said, no, just closed and gone. FWIW, a Mrs. Fields cookies shop that also was there for a quite a while also disappeared in the past year from CW, and hasn't resurfaced anywhere nearby AFAIK. Though Haagen Dazs has long had another smaller cafe just down the street near the Chidlom BTS station.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Your memory does not extend back far enough.  Actually it moved to that new built underground shopping center location behind Gaysorn later - this is the original store opened in 1966 which I believe was the first use of an escalator in Thailand (Central used a wooden staircase until the 70's).  

 

How do you do it, Lopburi?

 

I seriously doubt, I'm going to remember what was where, and who moved where, in Bangkok some 30-40 years down the road... Yikes!!!!  I don't even remember the name of the streets I lived on 30-40 years ago, and that was my home.