"My Mate Nate" doesn't have a work permit - but lucky break means he won't be prosecuted for working

[Propellerhead]

Yes, he does owe US taxes IF he made over $96,000.  At least that was the case last I looked. Doesn't matter where you make it, where you are paid, or whose bank you put it in. A US taxpayer person (you don't even need to be a citizen, just someone with an SS number, such as a dependent children who have never even been in the US) owes taxes on everything ABOVE the 96,000 US dollar exemption.  Also you MUST file with FACTA any non-US bank accounts equivalent to $15,000 aggregate. Nate may escape the Thai authorities but the IRS is going to clean his clock.

The foreign earned income credit was $101,300 for 2016 and is indexed for inflation. He's still on the hook for self employment tax to the tune of 15%. However if he set up an off shore corporation in say, Belize and became an employee of that company he wouldn't be "self employed" and would be exempt from self employment tax. Off shoring would also allow him to defer earnings above and beyond what he pays himself. Those deferred earnings are tax free and can be invested and allowed to grow tax free. Even if it cost him $10,000-$20,000 per year in legal and accounting fees it would be worthwhile.


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[Grumpy Duck]

There is a website for models, makeup artists, producers and photographers called "model mahem" a person can search their extensive database for talent anywhere in the world. I have seen a few in Thailand as well as several foreign models etc. I noticed none posted agency representation I wonder if immigration authorities ever check such sites? Perhaps they just act upon complaints from agencies. 

[NanLaew]

53 minutes ago, Grumpy Duck said:

As I understood reading that, the amnesty was more for illegal Thai employers, to hold off the ฿800,000 fines as too severe. 

Yes. This previously unknown amnesty that apparently lets Nate of the hook, and has so many digital pikeys all worked up, isn't an amnesty for the illegal self-employed.

[williamgeorgeallen]

31 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

What the locals chose not to do is absolutely no excuse for foreigners to freeload. There's probably plenty of your fellow countrymen back home who have very strong opinions on this as well.

 

I agree, let the Thai revenue claw back all they can from VAT, be it from residents or tourists.

 

In the meantime, Thai Immigration can do its bit by showing the digital pikeys the one-way door.

who is freeloading? digital nomads in thailand are helping the thai economy. if thailand was smart they would sort out some sort of better visa system for them. most of them stay on the thai study visa. i bet this guy nate is on a study visa.

[DisainaM]

7 minutes ago, Propellerhead said:

 

The foreign earned income credit was $101,300 for 2016 and is indexed for inflation. He's still on the hook for self employment tax to the tune of 15%. However if he set up an off shore corporation in say, Belize and became an employee of that company he wouldn't be "self employed" and would be exempt from self employment tax. Off shoring would also allow him to defer earnings above and beyond what he pays himself. Those deferred earnings are tax free and can be invested and allowed to grow tax free. Even if it cost him $10,000-$20,000 per year in legal and accounting fees it would be worthwhile.


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but if the DSI is asking US IRS for tax assistance,

to get youtubes payments for youtubers, who produce content / footage in thailand,

they could get data for a tax calculation,

in this case, a off shore structure would not help.

 

[NanLaew]

20 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

who is freeloading?

People making money while illegally working in Thailand and avoiding paying income tax.

 

20 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

digital nomads in thailand are helping the thai economy.

To the same degree as those that succumb to the, "You barfine my sister me" plea maybe?

 

20 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

if thailand was smart they would sort out some sort of better visa system for them.

You mean the same way as the many, many other countries that have generous and relaxed visa regimes for long-stay but ultimately illegal working "tourists"?

 

20 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

most of them stay on the thai study visa. i bet this guy nate is on a study visa.

The infinitely successful ED visa that has been systematically abused beyond all recognition.

Edited July 19, 2017 by NanLaew

[jeab1980]

Right im off out to work doing anything i please ive got 180 days to do as i please work wise. Whats good for one is good for the rest of us

 The doors are open.

[williamgeorgeallen]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

People making money while illegally working in Thailand and avoiding paying income tax.

 

To the same degree as those that succumb to the, "You barfine my sister me" plea maybe?

 

You mean the same way as the many, many other countries that have generous and relaxed visa regimes for long-stay but ultimately illegal working "tourists"?

 

The infinitely successful ED visa that has been systematically abused beyond all recognition.

guy is not taking jobs from thais and is spending foreign income in thailand so he is an asset to thailand. they should recognize this and sort out some sort of system to let them stay.  

[Tilacme]

8 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Does this then mean that any foreigner can now work without being arrested until January?

That is precisely what I took from Khun Ranon's comments, a 180 day working free for all, extraordinary.

[Propellerhead]

but if the DSI is asking US IRS for tax assistance,
to get youtubes payments for youtubers, who produce content / footage in thailand,
they could get data for a tax calculation,
in this case, a off shore structure would not help.
 

My response was strictly with regards to his US tax exposure. With what I proposed YouTube revenue would be paid to a US based LLC owned in whole by the off shore corp.

I don't know for certain but it might be possible to pay himself a respectable and taxable 65,000 baht per month and instead receive shareholder dividends on an annual basis. What's the tax on passive income in Thailand? Zero if earned in previous year?




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[spambot]

working of Alien act 2008

"Section 5: Definition - WORK : Means of engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or benefits."

goes on to say…"In  order to do work you need a work permit if you are a foreigner."

 

- With this very broad definition of work, then any foreigner entering the kingdom found to be simply breathing would then need a work permit - Because that is exerting energy.

 

Bottom line: The way that work is defined makes it impossible to define what work actually is.

 

As far as I am be aware (albeit through limited resources) no Digital Bloggers have ever been prosecuted in Thailand for Blogging without a work permit 

 

 A realistic view: This or any other digital blogger is unlikely to get into a Thai court for prosecution - simply because - they do not compete with a Thai person for that same job.

[DisainaM]

7 minutes ago, spambot said:

working of Alien act 2008

"Section 5: Definition - WORK : Means of engaging in work by exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or benefits."

goes on to say…"In  order to do work you need a work permit if you are a foreigner."

 

- With this very broad definition of work, then any foreigner entering the kingdom found to be simply breathing would then need a work permit - Because that is exerting energy.

 

Bottom line: The way that work is defined makes it impossible to define what work actually is.

 

As far as I am be aware (albeit through limited resources) no Digital Bloggers have ever been prosecuted in Thailand for Blogging without a work permit 

 

 A realistic view: This or any other digital blogger is unlikely to get into a Thai court for prosecution - simply because - they do not compete with a Thai person for that same job.

in terms of the work permit, in terms of taxes, this is a different issue.

9 minutes ago, Propellerhead said:

 

YouTube revenue would be paid to a US based LLC owned in whole by the off shore corp.





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youtube is paying the channel creator, if this is a  US based LLC , you are right.

If youtube could or would change the payment to a new company, ok,

 

[cyberfarang]

25 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

guy is not taking jobs from thais and is spending foreign income in thailand so he is an asset to thailand. they should recognize this and sort out some sort of system to let them stay.  

Sorry don`t agree.

 

If I am making incomes in my own country, England, then unless my incomes fall beneath my income tax personal allowance, I will be expected to pay income tax on earnings above my PA. The old saying; two certainties in life; we will pay taxes and die and the same applies in Thailand, because why should Thailand be an exception to the rule? If earning money legally, no matter from which sources, then we must pay tax according to the countries where we are resident.

 

People who are not declaring their earnings and incomes to the tax offices are breaking the law, even if you don`t agree with it.

[williamgeorgeallen]

8 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Sorry don`t agree.

 

If I am making incomes in my own country, England, then unless my incomes fall beneath my income tax personal allowance, I will be expected to pay income tax on earnings above my PA. The old saying; two certainties in life; we will pay taxes and die and the same applies in Thailand, because why should Thailand be an exception to the rule? If earning money legally, no matter from which sources, then we must pay tax according to the countries where we are resident.

 

People who are not declaring their earnings and incomes to the tax offices are breaking the law, even if you don`t agree with it.

doubt this guy would pass the tax fee threshold in thailand so even if he could pay tax he would not have too.  

[spambot]

DisainaM I agree - Paying tax and working illegally are different.

 

My post made no contribution on the arguments around - Paying tax.

[dbrenn]

12 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Because this is Thailand. Making it harder and harder for the rest of us who have families here. I don't see it improving until after the "election". 

Dream on if you think that elections will change anything. 

[hobz]

56 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

That is precisely what I took from Khun Ranon's comments, a 180 day working free for all, extraordinary.

You guys are trying to apply logic to thai law enforcement. That is a highly illogical thing to do.

This is why i pray day and night that i will never get involved with thai courts / legal system. They seem to follow no logic whatsoever.

[sangtip2]

12 hours ago, Thechook said:

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

Is it illegal to cut my own grass ??

[natway09]

Sorry John,,,, but the work you are allowed to do is clearly stated on the "reason for work permit"

This guy is an idiot,,, stop trying to defend him. He is just trying to get "exposure"

Go home & do it there

[Bantex]

If this prat has a work amnesty until 1st January then everyone should log on to his site on 2nd January when he'll hopefully still not have a work permit.

He is pathetic and just giving decent foreigners a bad name.

[cyberfarang]

14 minutes ago, sangtip2 said:

Is it illegal to cut my own grass ??

Technically it could be interpreted as breaking the law, then the same could apply to changing a light bulb in the homes we live as we can`t own our properties in Thailand, except maybe condos.

 

But as far as I know, no foreigners in Thailand have ever been arrested for doing maintenance in their abodes of residence. So it`s really not worth thinking about.

[ttrd]

12 hours ago, Thechook said:

Why do you need a work permit to use your own computer in your own home to access and post on youtube?  YouTube is free to use and open to everyone and it's not as if you can hire a thai to do your hobbies, use your computer so you are entertained.  So farangs being amused and tapping a key on a keyboard is now another job reserved for thais in Thailand.  It's already illegal to mow your lawns, wash your car and take the garbage out, do we have to hire a thai to use my phone and call family?

I assume you have missed the fact that he have created a company in Thailand "My Mate Nate" with the purpose of making, distribute and selling videos so he qualifies for the need of a work permit.

He had a Non-Immigration Visa B which gives the holder the right to conduct business and to work in Thailand, BUT he need a separate work permit to do so...

We should be able to keep us to the reality also on Thai Visa...

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/mate-nate-non-b-visa-released-immigration/

[mercman24]

thought he was a yank ??

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

guy is not taking jobs from thais and is spending foreign income in thailand so he is an asset to thailand. they should recognize this and sort out some sort of system to let them stay.  

But he is 'exerting effort' and that's pretty much all the Thai Labour Department needs to know.

 

There are those who think that meeting your mates for a beer at the moobahn mom and pop store is contributing to the Thai economy. Then there's the reality of it all. Even the husbands who build family homes in Nakhon Nowhere are totally missing the plot if they claim that they have contributed anything meaningful beyond the x million baht to local Thai builders merchants.

[Propellerhead]

I assume you have missed the fact that he have created a company in Thailand "My Mate Nate" with the purpose of making, distribute and selling videos so he qualifies for the need of a work permit.
He had a Non-Immigration Visa B which gives the holder the right to conduct business and to work in Thailand, BUT he need a separate work permit to do so...
We should be able to keep us to the reality also on Thai Visa...
 
https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/mate-nate-non-b-visa-released-immigration/

It's clear to the kid has some sort of lawyer. And given the apparent leniency he been shown perhaps he's paying a respectable amount of taxes.


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[rgraham]

 

We've had one of these in the US as well, Justin Bieber.

[Meljames]

55 minutes ago, Propellerhead said:

 

 

It's clear to the kid has some sort of lawyer. And given the apparent leniency he been shown perhaps he's paying a respectable amount of taxes.
 

 

 

It is, is it?

[Shatian]

Does the "Lucky break" apply to a work permit holder who says uses their work permit to work say in two schools where the permit bears only the name of one of the schools? My school gave me a free day to work in another school that they looked it for me. What are the consequences if I am caught in the school that I work for one day a week? Will the lucky break apply in my situation if I am caught? Because they will say I am working in a different school with a work permit from another school. Thanks for your feedback.

[PhuketSarah]

12 hours ago, charmonman said:

That is an interesting point you make in that he was making the videos IN Thailand with the purpose of earning money on them, but what is the next step on this slippery slope? Maybe prohibiting tourists from posting any videos on Youtube of their Thailand holidays? Prohibiting foreigners from even using a laptop without a work permit? The bureaucracy of the labour / immigration departments of this country need to seriously update themselves to the modern world.

 

This whole story about My Mate Nate is almost as ridiculous as the pensioners who were arrested in Pattaya a couple of years for playing bridge. If putting a few coins on a railway track can seriously cause damage to the train or the tracks then Thailand also needs an emergency update to its transport system. What if a small stone found its way on to the track? Would it cause a major derailment? This whole thing is incredibly stupid, even for Thailand.

 I think the coin was more about who's image is on it.

[spambot]

38 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

Technically it could be interpreted as breaking the law, then the same could apply to changing a light bulb in the homes we live as we can`t own our properties in Thailand, except maybe condos.

 

But as far as I know, no foreigners in Thailand have ever been arrested for doing maintenance in their abodes of residence. So it`s really not worth thinking about.

Interestingly - I did read In a Chang Mai publication a number of years ago - About a Foreigner who said that he was actually threatened under the act.

 

In Chang Mai the foreigner was renovating his house and he was raided (the act used for the purpose of the raid) he was said to be 'working' - Since he was exerting energy as quoted under the act. He was told that he was being raided because his neighbour had made a complaint. The foreigner was threatened with prosecution and with a max penalty for working without work permit - 2 years in prison and/or fine up to 100K THB. - He paid a 100K THB fine and did not go to prison.

 

This is probably a typical result in Thailand - Mostly of these cases are not tested in law and so its difficult to understand what a foreigner working actually means.  A typical feature of this type of case is some official with an opinion, rather than someone with real knowledge or experience to qualify a prosecution reality. In this case a single police officer and a single labour officer attended the house. The actions taken were concluded in a single visit and the foreigner's case was never tested in court.

 

Generally if the police did want to pursue charges it is unlikely that any prosecutor would actual want to take the case. The most likely outcome of a case going to court would be the foreigner would be let off since the Act was not designed for this occurrence and a  prosecutor does know this. But notwithstanding this any attempt to use the courts to make a landmark decision in Thai law would not be straightforward since the law is not based upon any specifics apart from the prohibited work sectors in the three main categories (A, B, C) there is little substance to use in mitigation to win such a case - other than exertion of energy.

 

Attempting to pioneer and find some clarity in this unenforceable law would not serve anyone well if wishing to test any actual meaning for what constitutes an engagement in work. The best positioning for most cost concerned relative to this law is to leave it alone and never force a test for clearer definition. Hence most future challenges on what can be defined as working illegally will remain as it stands today as unknown and subject to threats and compromise that will only ever get negotiated outside the actual law.