France's economy minister tells Britain - 'We want our money back'

[Somtamnication]

Before the UK pays back the money, please return our lost heroes from the Battle of Somme and others to their families alive and well. I will personally pay this out of my own pocket. 

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

Yet again wrong, don't you get fed up with being wrong all of the time.

 

We are talking about...."France's economy minister tells Britain - 'We want our money back'"

 

Again wrong. It seems to be difficult following my comments: I will explain to you a last time: In case you get pension. You paid for that pension when you were young? Not you,  because you did not contribute anything but the former generation. And the young now will secure your pension in case they will get into work and are willing to. If not, your pension will be shortened.

Got it now?

Then we can go back to the French Minister

In case you did not understand pls don't bother me but ask someone with wisdom

[sawadee1947]

3 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Battle of Somme

I think there are some more battles in history. Who got a list ???

[KNJ]

Back to the topic:

Clearly discussions regarding finance will not come about until the people issue is sorted, that will come first.

As to the bill, well we have to fully pay for the two years that is agreed. However just like a divorce, there are assets in the EU we can claim to own part of and want compensation for

Unless a hard exit there will be a period of separation, where based on negotiation we may have to pay something.

There are aspects where both parties would benefit to retaining in place, Security, Arts, Education etc

Both sides will set up negotiating tokens, for which they are willing to trade off.

As part of that is the marketing of those ideas, "We will send back nuclear waste, We will reduce corporation tax below that of EU, We will apply tariffs,  et al"

The fundamental issue is that UK cannot be seen to getting a good deal, or there is a danger other members will leave ( Austria, Netherlands, Finland)  so to think we will have any meaningful outcome is utter hogwash.

France is only one member and there are 27 countries which need to agree, if not we will just walk away, that is a highly likely scenario

Brexit has forced the EU to take a look at how it works, which Cameron failed to influence, the repercussions from this are going to cost particularly France and Germany a lot more in their contributions to make up for the shortfall by UK once they leave. Oh and good luck with Greece, and potential Italy when that deck of cards they call their financial (mis)management topples

May needs to grow a pair and play hardball with some strong negotiation tokens 

Edited July 20, 2017 by KNJ
typo

[Grubster]

Sure looks to me like something that should have been agreed upon before the EU was formed.  I think its hard enough to have a governing body for your own country, join a bunch more, bad idea me thinks.

[sawadee1947]

20 minutes ago, KNJ said:

we can claim to own part of and want compensation for

no, you left, and lost and you will pay compensation. No one asked you to leave.....

[joecoolfrog]

6 hours ago, Aforek said:

From many months now, everytime the discussion comes to Brexit, English people on this forum are very subjective and give many wrong informations 

 

 

Put the word ' some ' in front of English ( or more accurately British ) and your post will no longer be ignorant nonsense. It would however still be pointless as I could simply substitute 'European ' to the same effect.

[david555]

9 hours ago, Dave67 said:

How about we take out the cost of liberating your country from the Nazis

So you U.K. did that all alone .....? All the others just watching it ..? besides they where close on your doorstep ain't it ....?

[joecoolfrog]

7 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

no, you left, and lost and you will pay compensation. No one asked you to leave.....

The majority of British people ( who bothered to vote ) asked to leave.

[LannaGuy]

Just now, david555 said:

So you U.K. did that all alone .....? All the others just watching it ..? besides they where close on your doorstep ain't it ....?

Actually yes we did just about do it alone... you had anyone else in mind in those early days?   

[joecoolfrog]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

No, not at all. The continental EU countries will stay close together and will push EU forward, but Britain has to enjoy your new best friend Donald. I would rather stay in EU instead to have that friend.

'' The lady doth protest too much "

[Dave67]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

So you U.K. did that all alone .....? All the others just watching it ..? besides they where close on your doorstep ain't it ....?

Where did I say that? We were the first to stand with them both times. And if we hadn't thrown in men to help them Dunkirk would never have never happened and we would have had far bigger army in the UK to defend the country

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

Look at the little blue crosses on the graph, Grouse.

I did. Looks like France is third largest contributor?

[joecoolfrog]

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I did. Looks like France is third largest contributor?

Some articles put the Netherlands 3rd and France 4th , its a tad confusing. Pretty clear though that Germany followed by the UK lead the pack.

[chezy86]

It is obviously what many of the OLD did not expect.
Interesting is the fact that "Great Britain" sneaked back all time in history when it comes to pay money. So they left China, India and Kenya when it was evident that they could not have any benefit at all. (Or they were thrown out) And so it happened that they went into EU and now they can't see their fortune.....so they leave. It's a "CHERRY PICKING COUNTRY". Now Britain will become a unimportant little country which has still follow the EU rules (free trade) but without power and influence.

Haha funny you obviously don't know the British


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[chezy86]

Exactly! And are there not some bills still open from Azincourt? 

Don't know never heard of Azincourt ???

 

 

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[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I did. Looks like France is third largest contributor?

In another 617 days and 13 hours they will be a even bigger contributor.

[observer90210]

Oh c'mon...stop ranting at those poor French nationals....

 

They need cash to bail out of their national disastrous economy, ready to sink....10% unemployment, a public debt ready to explose, homeless on the rise, terrorism, taxes that strangle...please be a more tolerant towards lovely France.....and they have such lovely beaches on the French South Riviera

 

And if they are all that cash broke, (which they are), they could perhaps sell a few of their top class nuclear subs to Thailand?

Edited July 20, 2017 by observer90210

[Grouse]

https://inews.co.uk/explainers/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Look for the little blue crosses (there aren't any ?)

[chezy86]

Don't know never heard of Azincourt ??? 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Oh you mean the battle of Agincourt of AD1415 where the English routed the French well if they still owe us we'll have that as well.


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[vogie]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

https://inews.co.uk/explainers/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back/

 

Look for the little blue crosses (there aren't any ?)

Which ever way you look at it the UK is the second highest contributor, unless it doesn't suit your agenda of course.

 

[chezy86]

And who will pay for the cost of helping to protect the UK during the Battle of Britain when without the Americans Britain would have fallen to the Nazis?
 
And what about all those nationalities whose countries were not involved but who threw their hat into the ring to fight against fascism/Nazism?

We paid ourselves the last war loan was paid to the USA in 2006 by Britain. Without that help we would have fallen I grant you that but we had to pay it was not free.


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[chrissables]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

no, you left, and lost and you will pay compensation. No one asked you to leave.....

There is NO legally binding contract to pay anything once we leave. We have nothing to compensate the EU for. We may agree to pay certain things, EU pensions as an example, but we are not legally bound.

[Thakkar]

10 hours ago, Dave67 said:

How about we take out the cost of liberating your country from the Nazis

How about paying India back—the economic rape of which helped finance Britain's wars?

India isn't asking for the money back because that was all settled, partly in the form of letting bygones be bygones.

 

The current issue isn't about the past but about future commitments that Britain signed on to as a member. Britain aren't being kicked out. They are leaving of their own accord and against the wishes of the others. Therefore their commitments stand. 

 

The figure the Europeans are bandying about is likely too large, that's par for the course for negotiations.

 

T

[Kasset Tak]

It's easy, if UK doesn't want to pay then just put a 300% import tax on everything from the UK to EU until the debt is paid.... UK's industries and farmers will be happy and we can see what will happen as it will be like the car industry where they are investing in EU countries but not in the UK because of the coming Brexit!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Which ever way you look at it the UK is the second highest contributor, unless it doesn't suit your agenda of course.

 

Unless you look at net contribution as a proportion of GDP per person.

 

But, the point is that France is also a substantial net contributor. 

 

If you dont don't understand that one of the really progressive EU ideas was for the richer areas to assist the poorer. A Robin Hood idea. Problem in the UK is that we are rich but the way we distribute the wealth results in mass poverty! This is not the fault of the EU.

 

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Who-pays-for-the-EU-and-how-much-does-it-cost-the-UK-Disentangling-fact-from-fiction-in-the-EU-Budget-Professor-Iain-Begg.pdf

Edited July 20, 2017 by Grouse

[joecoolfrog]

49 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Unless you look at net contribution as a proportion of GDP per person.

 

But, the point is that France is also a substantial net contributor. 

 

If you dont don't understand that one of the really progressive EU ideas was for the richer areas to assist the poorer. A Robin Hood idea. Problem in the UK is that we are rich but the way we distribute the wealth results in mass poverty! This is not the fault of the EU.

 

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Who-pays-for-the-EU-and-how-much-does-it-cost-the-UK-Disentangling-fact-from-fiction-in-the-EU-Budget-Professor-Iain-Begg.pdf

It was stated that France was a bigger net contributor than the UK , that has been shown to be incorrect. Per Capita would make little difference as the French population is only about 1 million larger , nowhere near enough to leapfrog the UK. Per Capita would of course lift the likes of the Netherlands but that is irrelevent to the UK / France discussion.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, humqdpf said:

And who will pay for the cost of helping to protect the UK during the Battle of Britain when without the Americans Britain would have fallen to the Nazis?

There are many historical inaccuracies in this topic, but having a father who was a volunteer in the RAF from 1939-1945 this one really gets my goat!

 

The Battle of Britain was fought from June to October 1940. America didn't join the war until December 1941!

 

Individual American's did join the RAF and fight in the battle, despite the risk of imprisonment or even losing their US citizenship under various US neutrality acts.  According to Kenneth G Wynn's Men of the Battle of Britain published in 1999, and the list currently held by the Royal Air Force,^[4] 11 American pilots qualified for the 1939-1945 Star with Battle of Britain clasp (source)

 

Of course, no one can deny the immense help we received from the USA, both before they joined the war via lend/lease and after, including post war. But we paid for it. The last instalment of $83.25m (£42.5m) being paid in 2006 (source)!

Edited July 20, 2017 by 7by7

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Kasset Tak said:

It's easy, if UK doesn't want to pay then just put a 300% import tax on everything from the UK to EU until the debt is paid.... UK's industries and farmers will be happy and we can see what will happen as it will be like the car industry where they are investing in EU countries but not in the UK because of the coming Brexit!

 

Another one who doesn't have a clue. The EU exports far more to the UK than it imports. A punitive tarriff war would see the UK quids in.

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Another one who doesn't have a clue. The EU exports far more to the UK than it imports. A punitive tarriff war would see the UK quids in.

  I wouldn't say 'far more' but it's true we do buy more from the other 27 then they buy from us. Everything you might want to know about the UK's trade with the EU

Quote

How much is UK-EU trade worth to each party?

There’s lots of different ways to look at how much UK-EU trade is worth to each party, and what that means for who will be most keen to agree on a post-Brexit trade deal .

The three main ways that are used are:

• The value of trade to the UK and the rest of the EU—we exported about £230 billion worth of goods and services to the rest of the EU in 2015, according to UK data, while the rest of the EU exported somewhere around £290 billion to us. These figures differ if you use EU data. What this means is that the rest of the EU sells more to us than we sell to it.
• What those exports are as a proportion of all exports—by this measure about 46% of the UK’s exports go to other EU countries, while somewhere between 8-17% of exports from other EU countries go to the UK (depending on how you measure it).
• The value of that trade to the UK and other EU countries’ economies—exports to the rest of the EU are worth about 13% of the UK’s economy, and exports from other EU countries to the UK are worth about 3-4% of the value of those countries’ economies taken as a whole.

 Nobody wins in a tariff war; especially the ordinary consumer!