Grass problem

[Slugs11]

Hi,

 

Have a problem with this grass (attached pictures) taking over the field. It is gradually spreading from one corner to halfway into the field. The field has Mulato II grass and we allow the cattle to graze it. However this grass is taking over, and the cows won't eat it.

 

Have tried pulling it out, however it comes back again the next year. Any idears on how to remove it permanently ?

 

Is there a spray available, would have to be carefully not to spray the Mulato. Assume Roundup would kill it, however I have not seen it available here in the shops in Ubon.

 

Thanks and regards.

[LawrenceN]

Roundup can be hard to find. There are other brands of glyphosate herbicide sold in Thailand.  Buy one of them. Wear gloves and follow all of the other instructions, especially the dilution ratio.

[canuckamuck]

Roundup can often be found where they sell glyphosate, it is about 20% more (white jug). I have used a variety of different glyphosate brands here, they all seem to work.

Just ask for gly-fo-set. They will know right away. I usually dilute at 2% which is more than what my neighbors use. As far as I can tell.

 

A trick my father used to use when trying to be careful with Round up was to put on a surgical glove, and then a woven glove over top. He would then dip his fingers into the round up and then slide his fingers up the plant he was targeting. But I don't know how big your field is though, and that might be too slow a process for you

[weegee]

Cut it off with a trimmer about 1-2 inches from the ground....The poor Liquid Chlorine (strong dose) , or any bleach product all over the clumps that are left....dead real quick. if you dont want to do that, the next best thing is to whipper snip it to ground level at least weekly, and the grass around gets a chance to take over....It takes a few weeks of this but eventually, there will be less and less of this shocker of a grass....until it completely goes.

Rgds

weegee

 

[dinsdale]

Get a goat. 

[ThaiWai]

Borrow my dogs for a week.  It will look like a desert.

[observer90210]

Smoke it.

[cooked]

You can try spot treatments with Glyphosate but this can be a frustrating experience. If it's gone too far you'll have to burn off the whole field or at least parts of it.

I stopped using Roundup long ago, any of the generics will do the job, just look at the ingredients, always in English, on the container.

2% will take most things out, I have used 4% on trees and bushes , especially during the dry season.

[Formaleins]

We have got two areas of grass that looks very similar to what your photos show, they have gradually increased in area over the last 3 years. If the grass you have is the same as mine, don't waste your money on Roundup or similar, it will do absolutely nothing to this stuff.

 

In fact, it seems the more you spray it the more resistant it becomes.

 

Cutting it and burning it helps, but it does seem to keep coming back, if I find a definite killer for it I will post again, but this week will be spent reducing it with a brush cutter and then burning.

[Hereinthailand]

Roundup/Glyphosate is for broad leaf vegetation mostly and will not work very well on many of the plants here, thats why paraquat is used so much here, it kills about everything.

[cooked]

1 hour ago, Hereinthailand said:

Roundup/Glyphosate is for broad leaf vegetation mostly and will not work very well on many of the plants here, thats why paraquat is used so much here, it kills about everything.

I used Glyphosate for killing off lawns that were to be renovated and as far as I know there is no limitation as far as broad leaf / grass is concerned. It works its way down into the roots of the plant and kills it off effectively although 2 - 3 applications may be necessary. (Systemic herbicide)

Paraquat merely burns anything green that it touches, the roots remain intact and so plants with a healthy root will grow again.(Contact herbicide)

Paraquat is used more extensively because it is cheap but in the long run Glyphosat works out cheaper.

[Hereinthailand]

How can it work out cheaper than paraquat if you have to apply it multiple times to get rid of the weeds ?

Glyphosate (N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine) is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant. It is an organophosphorus compound, specifically a phosphonate. It is used to kill weeds, especially annual broadleaf weeds and grasses that compete with crops. It was discovered to be an herbicide by Monsanto chemist John E. Franz in 1970.^[3] Monsanto brought it to market in 1974 under the trade name Roundup, and Monsanto's last commercially relevant United States patent expired in 2000.

Farmers quickly adopted glyphosate, especially after Monsanto introduced glyphosate-resistant Roundup Ready crops, enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops. In 2007, glyphosate was the most used herbicide in the United States' agricultural sector and the second-most used in home and garden (2,4-D being the most used), government and industry, and commerce.^[4] By 2016 there was a 100-fold increase from the late 1970s in the frequency of applications and volumes of glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) applied, with further increases expected in the future, partly in response to the global emergence and spread of glyphosate-resistant weeds.^[5]:1

Glyphosate is absorbed through foliage, and minimally through roots,^[6][7][8] and transported to growing points. It inhibits a plant enzymeinvolved in the synthesis of three aromatic amino acids: tyrosine, tryptophan, and phenylalanine. Therefore, it is effective only on actively growing plants and is not effective as a pre-emergence herbicide

[Hereinthailand]

If you scroll down to "weed control" it has the herbicides which are effective against this grass.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag310

[farmerjo]

The old rule of thumb is use roundup to kill a weed and use paraquat to stop the weed setting seed so generally you would use both in the same season to stop resistance of the chemicals,once you have resistance you then go to selective herbicides which cost a lot more and try different crop rotations to manage it.This is the last straw for many farmers around the world.

[cooked]

18 hours ago, Hereinthailand said:

How can it work out cheaper than paraquat if you have to apply it multiple times to get rid of the weeds ?

Glyphosate (N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine) is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant. It is an organophosphorus compound, specifically a phosphonate. It is used to kill weeds, especially annual broadleaf weeds and grasses that compete with crops. It was discovered to be an herbicide by Monsanto chemist John E. Franz in 1970.^[3] Monsanto brought it to market in 1974 under the trade name Roundup, and Monsanto's last commercially relevant United States patent expired in 2000.

Farmers quickly adopted glyphosate, especially after Monsanto introduced glyphosate-resistant Roundup Ready crops, enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops. In 2007, glyphosate was the most used herbicide in the United States' agricultural sector and the second-most used in home and garden (2,4-D being the most used), government and industry, and commerce.^[4] By 2016 there was a 100-fold increase from the late 1970s in the frequency of applications and volumes of glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) applied, with further increases expected in the future, partly in response to the global emergence and spread of glyphosate-resistant weeds.^[5]:1

Glyphosate is absorbed through foliage, and minimally through roots,^[6][7][8] and transported to growing points. It inhibits a plant enzymeinvolved in the synthesis of three aromatic amino acids: tyrosine, tryptophan, and phenylalanine. Therefore, it is effective only on actively growing plants and is not effective as a pre-emergence herbicide

You seem to be very good at cutting and copying from the internet but not so good at comprehension.

Normally, one application of Roundup is enough. For a tree or shrub, several applications may be necessary. So one application of Roundup and normally you're done, but it is more expensive for that one application and you have to wait a week or two. One application of Paraquat is a lot cheaper and its effects are visible after a day. However it doesn't get rid of the weeds if they have a robust root system.

I didn't go into the different situations in which one product might be preferable to another but I should have thought that that would be obvious.

Paraquat cannot replace Roundup, Roundup cannot replace Paraquat. It depends on the situation.

[Hereinthailand]

You seem to be very good at thinking you are an expert on roundup and paraquat. I cut and paste to share information with people who ask questions all the time like most people on the internet do instead of stalking people for trying to help others make an informed decision, But hey no more from me on this subject as you are the know it all of grasses and herbicides.

[Gary A]

The tree huggers probably hate my method but it works. Fill a back mounted sprayer with diesel fuel and spray those isolated clumps of grass. The next day you can set the wilted clump on fire and it will kill the seeds and roots. Of course it depends on how far the problem grass has gotten out of control.

 

I farmed in the US and when I changed oil in the tractors, my truck and car, I spread the used oil on my stone driveway. It kept the weeds and dust down. I got caught and the EPA threatened to sue me for not disposing of my used oil properly. I thought it was a scam because they recommended taking the used oil to a recycling company. Of course they didn't pay you for the oil or hassle.

 

One of the busier service stations heated their building with a large pot bellied wood and coal burning stove, They had a barrel with a petcock and a copper line that dripped the used oil in to the stove, Ohio gets very cold in the winter. That old stove because a popular place for the old timers to gather around and tell each other lies. They had a big percolator of coffee and a cigar box for small donations to pay for the coffee. 

[rickudon]

Some plants have developed resistance to Glyphosphate. Certainly try it first but if after a couple of applications it hasn't killed off the grass you will need to try something else. If going for non-chemical options, you need to understand how the grass spreads, is it just seeds or are underground rhizomes the problem? You need different tactics for each.

[Gary A]

And there is the problem. The chemical will appear to kill the clump but the seeds and Rhizomes will recover and grow. A few weeks later you will have another clump growing.

[kickstart]

HI cooked

                 You are correct ,Thai's love an instant result ,so they  use  Paraquat ,as you say ,you can see the  results next day ,2 weeks later the plant greens up again ,we have a lot  of  Yar-Con ,in Thai ,  or Parra  Grass   , Paraquat  is no use ,but  Glyphosate  will kill it ,if it is a young  plant ,no problem ,an old well-established  clump takes a long time to die .

The grass in the OP's photo is  Yar- Fat , in Thai,  according to my misses  it will take some getting  rid of.looks like an old clump too .

I have chopped some big clumps of weed grass with a Thai  hoe, then let it green up , and then use  Glyphosate, have had some good results.

[XBroker]

".... would have to be carefully not to spray the Mulato. "

 

Not certain, but I don't think mixed race ppl can help you w/ this.

[Damrongsak]

Some plants are hard to kill because the spray doesn't make proper contact.  I'm not sure if the glyphosate formulas there contain a "spreader/sticker" or wetting agent (surfactant).  Something to consider.  Is really strong "industrial" vinegar available?  It is sometimes used as a spot weed killer.

[cooked]

3 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

Some plants are hard to kill because the spray doesn't make proper contact.  I'm not sure if the glyphosate formulas there contain a "spreader/sticker" or wetting agent (surfactant).  Something to consider.  Is really strong "industrial" vinegar available?  It is sometimes used as a spot weed killer.

The reason that Roundup is more expensive than common or garden Glyphosat is that it contains  surfactants (soap), that enable the active product to spread over the plant efficiently. This has for years been thought to be the  reason that Roundup is at the root of cases of Hodgkin lymphoma in people that use the product over long periods of time without protection.

The industrial vinegar you are referring to would be wood vinegar which is easily available in Thailand. It doesn't work as well as Glyphosat and certainly won't kill plants with a well developed root system.

[cooked]

20 hours ago, Hereinthailand said:

You seem to be very good at thinking you are an expert on roundup and paraquat. I cut and paste to share information with people who ask questions all the time like most people on the internet do instead of stalking people for trying to help others make an informed decision, But hey no more from me on this subject as you are the know it all of grasses and herbicides.

NO, but I am a qualified lawn and grass expert and have a LOT of experience in the field. Anyone can use google which shares a lot of information and don't come here for stuff cut and pasted off the Internet, they want personal advice.

[Damrongsak]

I wouldn't think the spreader/sticker additive is particularly expensive.   I'm sure they have to watch the reactivity with any particular insecticide/pesticide (pH, yada, yada). 

 

I'm a horticulturist by training (Virginia Tech), though not a fan of turf grass.  I've had my share of courses in plant pathology, plant physiology, weed science, entomology & etc.  Did a bit of bug killing for Thai farmers when I was in the Peace Corps.  The way they used pesticides, it's a wonder any are left.  Farmers, not the bugs.

[Hereinthailand]

Too funny. lawn and grass expert lol. I know it all hahahaha.

[renaissanc]

I assume that people here know that glyphosate is officially now a carcinogen. It is RoundUp's main ingredient. You might like to stop using it.

 

If the fields are covered in weeds, your best solution is to change to 100% organic farming. Chemical farming creates weeds, and using RoundUp creates "super-weeds".

 

You could consider ploughing up the fields with an abundance of compost made with a liquid, microbial bio-fertiliser, such as Bio-Plant. This will gradually restore the soil's microbial life, and the micro-organisms will eat the weeds in the soil while removing the chemicals from the soil and making the 80% of the NPK left in the soil available to the roots.

 

Then plant a cover crop to cover the whole field. This will smother the growth of the weeds. Let the cover crop die down or cut it down and then plant the crop. Continue to use compost to prepare the soil, perhaps made with Bio-Plant, and stop using chemical fertilisers and sprays. The weed problem will go away.

[kickstart]

Back to the OP's problem ,how did the weed grass get they in the first place , looking at  the internet  Muleto 11is a  very vigorous grass ,once it gets going  it should  shade/crowd  out all other  plants ,if the OP drilled the seed  with a Thai drill  the row spacing  were to wide, normal  recommendation  when  drilling Mulato 11 is in rows no more than 50 cm apart    ,Thai corn drills are about 90 cm apart , too   wide a row  spacing  the grass can not shade/crowd  out the weeds.

If it was broadcast which is  how most websites  recommends sowing ,was it a good fine seed bed , for a good germination , then harrowed in .to the right depth .

I would  very much like to grow Muleto 11 ,but my land is just to wet , black  land ,ex rice paddeys not good at draining when wet  Muleto  11 would die in a season  with me

Does the OP have simular problems ,and is this  grass variety  suited to his land ,would he be better off  using  another  grass seed  variety . 

[farmerjo]

Was thinking the same thing,to wet and possibly over grazed.

Time to reseed.

[cooked]

18 hours ago, Hereinthailand said:

Too funny. lawn and grass expert lol. I know it all hahahaha.

Yes when you run out of arguments there's always the insults gambit to go for.

I didn't say I know it all.

I said I have a lot of experience in lawn care and that included sport complexes. If you disagree, ok, but try to do it on a factual basis. Googling stuff and then presenting it as all your own work isn't why people go on a public forum asking for advice