Consulate warns of US protests over failure to retrieve students’ bodies

[webfact]

Consulate warns of US protests over failure to retrieve students’ bodies

By THE NATION

 

 

AMERICAN AUTHORITIES could face protests if they do not expedite the retrieval of the bodies of two Thai postgraduate students believed to have died in a car crash almost two weeks ago in California, the Thai Consulate in Los Angeles has said.

Protests are planned in Fresno county, the scene of the accident, and Los Angeles, as frustration mounts with the slow progress of the operation. 

 

The consulate said on Facebook that protests would proceed if the rescue and recovery operation were not launched today.

 

Thiwadee Saengsuriyarit, 24, and Bhakapon Chairattanasongporn, 28, were driving on a highway on July 26 to Kings Canyon National Park when their rental car plunged off a 150-metre cliff and came to rest partially submerged in a river.

 

Fresno county officials have been blaming bad weather, strong currents and high water from melting snow for the slow pace of the operation.

 

Hopes that the pair survived the accident were dashed when Consulate General Tanee Sangrat said this week that the bodies of the students had been found in the car.

 

The consulate wrote that the families of the two students on Wednesday met with Michelle Steel, president of supervisory board of Orange county.

 

They asked Steel for her support to urge the Fresno County Coroner’s Office to speed up the work, as it was almost half a month since the accident. Steel told the families that she had been informed by the Fresno county office that a rescue team would descend the cliff and draw up a plan to retrieve the students and the car.

 

Coroner Magaret Mims told Steel and the families in a letter that she regarded the retrieval mission as a top priority. “They have realised that this is difficult time for the families and their targets are to retrieve the bodies of the students with highest respect,” the consulate reported.

 

The consulate has coordinated with and received the support of elected officials in California including Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, who has asked the consulate to convey his support for the efforts of the consulate and the Thai-American community.

Today, Jim McDonell, Los Angeles County sheriff, is coordinating with his counterpart in Fresno County.

 

In Bangkok, Ekkachai Taidecha, uncle of Bhakapon, applied yesterday for entry visas for a Thai rescue team, saying Thais should take over if US authorities continued to fail to act.

 

 

“If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said.

 

“It hurts to see my sister, who is now waiting for the retrieval in the US, endure the suffering and grief every second that passes.”

 

In response to Ekkachai’s symbolic protest, the US Embassy issued a statement. “We are closely following the situation and express our heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the two Thai students involved in this tragic accident in California.” 

 

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30323468

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-08-11

 

[canuckamuck]

I would love to see a Thai rescue team go in there and get them out. One advantage they would have would be risk assessment. They wouldn't have any, and therefore no method would be off the table. I often see things done that are clearly too dangerous. And while waiting it to fail I am always amazed to see it succeed.

Of course Thai news is full of things that went wrong. But that doesn't concern anybody right?

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

 

The consulate said on Facebook that protests would proceed if the rescue and recovery operation were not launched today.

Wonder how the Thai govt would react if the USA consulate here, supported and encouraged protests in Thailand? 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Dave67]

The consulate said on Facebook that protests would proceed if the rescue and recovery operation were not launched today.

 

Jumped up gobshite out of his depth in the real world

[mtls2005]

Well, well, protests are allowed in the U.S.!

 

This will probably not be the best thing for the junta to help advertise?

 

Interesting that these crowds are allowed to gather at the U.S. Embassy.

 

I understand that the families are distraught, but the Thai consular officials in L.A. seem to be managing the situation.

 

Someone needs to communicate to Thais in Thailand that everything that can be done is being done, and this situation is not being treated any differently than if it were U.S. citizens involved in such an accident. These are Rescue professionals, and they will get the job done in a safe manner.

[rkidlad]

I feel very sorry for the family, but what we don't want is more fatalities. The relevant US agencies are not simply sitting on their thumbs 'cos they're too feckless and lazy. They are analyzing the situation and will commence when it's safe to do so. 'Safety First'.

 

Thailand must understand American culture and respect it. As much as you'd like Thailand to let their own people in, we are not children and this isn't about pride. Lives are not pawns in some silly egotistical game. 

[steven100]

Well really,  is it so damn hard to fly a chopper their and hook the car on and retrieve it all in one move  ?    don't seem like rocket science to me.

[WhizBang]

14 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Well, well, protests are allowed in the U.S.!

 

This will probably not be the best thing for the junta to help advertise?

 

Interesting that these crowds are allowed to gather at the U.S. Embassy.

 

I understand that the families are distraught, but the Thai consular officials in L.A. seem to be managing the situation.

 

Someone needs to communicate to Thais in Thailand that everything that can be done is being done, and this situation is not being treated any differently than if it were U.S. citizens involved in such an accident. These are Rescue professionals, and they will get the job done in a safe manner.

Indeed, with a very strong emphasis on "in a SAFE manner", something that is completely foreign to Thais.

[geriatrickid]

Wow. The Thais are demanding that rescue workers risk their lives to retrieve 2 dead bodies?

 

This is quite the obnoxious insult and hysterical demand;

In Bangkok, Ekkachai Taidecha, uncle of Bhakapon, applied yesterday for entry visas for a Thai rescue team, saying Thais should take over if US authorities continued to fail to act. If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said

“It hurts to see my sister, who is now waiting for the retrieval in the US, endure the suffering and grief every second that passes.”

 

I suppose I should show some compassion and recognize that the rantings of this old man are just that, the rantings of an ignorant individual.  The man has no  concept of the dangers involved or the difficulty in retrieving  the  2 corpses, but off he goes.

 Perhaps he should send over  some magical amulets and special Thai flip flops that the  US personnel can wear to protect themselves.  The California agency doesn't need any  guidance from this fool. In case he doesn't know, California first responders are some of the best in the world because of their training and constant activity. They train with other agencies around the world. They will go when the risk exposure is managed.

As for the sobbing mother, someone should remind her that the body is only a vessel of the spirit and that there is no need to have the body back.  That's what the Thais tell the next of kin of the foreigners who are quickly cremated or embalmed for transport after their mysterious deaths, destroying important forensic  characteristics of the deceased.

 

 

[moe666]

In the end no one will be placed at risk for the recovery of two dead bodies. Even if hot shot thais show up they will not be allowed to risk their lives. Take a breath old man it will be done when it is done.

 

This is getting out of hand by the family demands sorry no more sympathy from me.

[moe666]

48 minutes ago, steven100 said:

Well really,  is it so damn hard to fly a chopper their and hook the car on and retrieve it all in one move  ?    don't seem like rocket science to me.

Who will be on the car hooking up the retrival line, sorry still to dangerous

[JaiMaai]

[satire]

Of course if they get their visas they'll still need to wait for the US authorities to properly process their work permits.............

[/satire]

 

 

 

[RPCVguy]

The still frame of that accident site can not convey the degree of difficulty as to reaching that site now. This video is a generic tour of Kings Canyon - filmed 3 years earlier while CA was in a drought. Look at even a minute of it to see the type of terrain the river cuts through. The visitor center is in Grant Grove Village at an elevation of 1,980 m. Doi Inthanon is not much higher at 2,656m but the park ranges in altitude up to its peak at 4,418m.

Anyone find a map showing the exact point of the crash? It is quite possibly somewhere near as shown here.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2017 by RPCVguy

[55Jay]

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

“If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said.

 

When they lost 3 helicopters in one week in Keang Krachang National Park comes to mind.  

[Morch]

Terrain, weather and all that...still odd the car remains in the water and they mount an operation. Can't tell exact conditions from pics and video, but they doesn't really look all that severe. Harsh, yes, impossible no. Seen such things done on somewhat similar locations (if not worse).

 

There's a risk involved in all such missions, and obviously those calling the shots know what they're doing and are more aware of the available resources and prevailing conditions. It is true, though, that different units and different countries apply different guidelines when it comes to safety parameters and such. This doesn't necessarily bear on professionalism, though. Wonder if a Thai team would take more chances, and if it is even legally possible for them to carry out such an operation in the US.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

“If this accident happened in Thailand, Thai rescuers would be able to get the bodies within 12 hours, no matter how bad the weather was. They would not have to use a helicopter,” he said.

 

When they lost 3 helicopters in one week in Keang Krachang National Park comes to mind.  

 

Far as I recall, the helicopters crashed on the search part, rather than the rescue. Could be wrong.

[Dipterocarp]

Why did they careen off a cliff (too fast, my phen rai)? Swift Water rescue team Americans with best training and unlimited resources, useless, give us Visas. King River, high flow from record snowpack, no problem. The Thais could probably pull it off actually. Have you ever seen workers cancel a job due to safety concerns or lack of proper equipment?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[55Jay]

Have heard plenty of times that winds cutting through gorges like the area the crash site is, are unpredictable and dangerous condition on its own, much less trying to hover a helo well above the target and attempting a heavy lift.  That vehicle, filled with water, is multitudes heavier, obviously, and the constant force of that powerful river, as seen in the YT video ^ would be acting on the vehicle, trying to sweep it away down river soon as it frees from the bottom, or whatever its lodged on holding it in place at the moment... pulling on the helicopter with all that combined water weight and force. 

 

I'm no helo pilot or a crane lift man (I'm sure there are some here on TVF though) but I can suss out this isn't a simple task, exacerbated by the bad weather conditions up there.  Sorry the parents are grieving but if the rescue guys could have done it, they would have by now.

Edited August 11, 2017 by 55Jay

[rkidlad]

35 minutes ago, Morch said:

Terrain, weather and all that...still odd the car remains in the water and they mount an operation. Can't tell exact conditions from pics and video, but they doesn't really look all that severe. Harsh, yes, impossible no. Seen such things done on somewhat similar locations (if not worse).

 

There's a risk involved in all such missions, and obviously those calling the shots know what they're doing and are more aware of the available resources and prevailing conditions. It is true, though, that different units and different countries apply different guidelines when it comes to safety parameters and such. This doesn't necessarily bear on professionalism, though. Wonder if a Thai team would take more chances, and if it is even legally possible for them to carry out such an operation in the US.

The two people they're trying to retrieve are sadly dead. This is all about the safety of the rescuers. They have their rules and laws and the Thais who don't like it must respect their rules, laws and culture. When I say culture, I mean their definition of 'common sense'. 

[Ron19]

Two troll posts and an answer  have been removed, there is also an off topic post that has been removed.

[berybert]

A Thai cop managed to get himself killed trying to swim across a river chasing a drug user yesterday.

Sure they would have no trouble getting to these people.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, berybert said:

A Thai cop managed to get himself killed trying to swim across a river chasing a drug user yesterday.

Sure they would have no trouble getting to these people.

 

Expat logic at work....

[berybert]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Expat logic at work....

Common sense at work. Let the experts work it out, Not some idiot who's sitting behind a desk scared of the rain.

 

[rijb]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

Terrain, weather and all that...still odd the car remains in the water and they mount an operation. Can't tell exact conditions from pics and video, but they doesn't really look all that severe. Harsh, yes, impossible no. Seen such things done on somewhat similar locations (if not worse).

 

There's a risk involved in all such missions, and obviously those calling the shots know what they're doing and are more aware of the available resources and prevailing conditions. It is true, though, that different units and different countries apply different guidelines when it comes to safety parameters and such. This doesn't necessarily bear on professionalism, though. Wonder if a Thai team would take more chances, and if it is even legally possible for them to carry out such an operation in the US.

I don't know if it would be legal for Thai team to do the operation.  What happens if they get in trouble during the operation?  Who would the Thai team expect to rescue them?

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, berybert said:

Common sense at work. Let the experts work it out, Not some idiot who's sitting behind a desk scared of the rain.

 

 

Equating a Thai cop who attempted something he was possibly unqualified for, and a Thai trained rescue team is ridiculous. And to head off some expected comments, there are qualified and well trained Thais in this line of work (civilian and military). Not saying this is the norm, of course. I think that the issue is more to do with pressure excreted by the families (and I can sympathize with their situation), and different approaches to safety procedures between the countries.

[Morch]

Just now, rijb said:

I don't know if it would be legal for Thai team to do the operation.  What happens if they get in trouble during the operation?  Who would the Thai team expect to rescue them?

 

Yeah well, jokes aside - can anyone mount such rescue operations in the US? I'd think not. When doing a movie stunt shoot involving such things, there's a whole lot of paperwork and legalities involved, so this is probably more complicated. Getting a local firm to the piloting, less of an issue, but the rest could be legally tricky.

[rijb]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah well, jokes aside - can anyone mount such rescue operations in the US? I'd think not. When doing a movie stunt shoot involving such things, there's a whole lot of paperwork and legalities involved, so this is probably more complicated. Getting a local firm to the piloting, less of an issue, but the rest could be legally tricky.

I wasn't joking.  I believe 'who has to rescue the rescuer' is a fair question.

[Jingthing]

If they want to protest, then protest.

People shouldn't be afraid of protest anywhere. 

It's healthy. 

Taking more risks than are needed to retrieve bodies, not so healthy. 

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, rijb said:

I wasn't joking.  I believe 'who has to rescue the rescuer' is a fair question.

Far as I gather, if a private firm was to be engaged, then it would have to include insurance (which will cover possible rescue of rescue team). Whether such a hypothetical rescue operation will be carried out by official or private operators is another issue. There will be some sort of waver signed beforehand, and probably a guarantee will be required.