Trump condemns 'hate' after protest violence in Virginia

[iReason]

[Thakkar]

34 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

 

I do, but then I also condemn all extreme hate groups, nor just ones in particular that suit my agenda.

 

I guess you are not gonna get it unless I really hammer it home, but Trump is correct to condemn all hate groups which is what you were arguing against.

 

 

Again, close, but no plaudits (yet) because you just HAD to say "all hate groups"

 

Once again:

The white supremacist are a hate group.

 

The counter protesters are not. Even the small number of Antifa among them are not a hate group unless you count hating intolerance as a hate group. 

 

You're almost there, my friend (may I please call you that—I'd much rather this debate be friendly than adversarial—after all, we both abhor & condemn violence, that's a good start). Now, can you, unequivocally, without qualification condemn, without also condemning the counter protesters—who are not a hate group—the ONLY hate group in the Charlottesville protests, the White Supremacists?

 

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship. ?

[KunMatt]

Again, close, but no plaudits (yet) because you just HAD to say "all hate groups"
 
Once again:
The white supremacist are a hate group.
 
The counter protesters are not. Even the small number of Antifa among them are not a hate group unless you count hating intolerance as a hate group. 
 
You're almost there, my friend (may I please call you that—I'd much rather this debate be friendly than adversarial—after all, we both abhor & condemn violence, that's a good start). Now, can you, unequivocally, without qualification condemn, without also condemning the counter protesters—who are not a hate group—the ONLY hate group in the Charlottesville protests, the White Supremacists?
 
This could be the start of a beautiful friendship. ?

I know it goes against your agenda but Antifa are a hate group. They are also technically a terrorist group too.

Just because they don't fit in with the current new definition of a hate group, they most definitely are a mob of violent thugs driven by hate. You can continue to pretend to not know this but soon enough it will be undeniable.

So again, I condemn all hate groups, including Antifa. Maybe especially Antifa seeing as they are the root cause of all is this really.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I checked Wikipedia. It says some Antifa groups cause property damage during protests (which I don't condone), but doesn't say anything about violence.  I have found no credible sources to support you claims that "Antifa are a fascist, violent hate group funded and organised by George Soros - an actual real life Nazi."

 

BLM stands for Bureau of Land Management, not a racist violent hate group.  If you are referring to a less well-known BLM you should give its full name.

 

Regarding letting hate groups battle it out among each other, the people of Charlottesburg did not choose their city as a battleground.   The White Supremacists did.  Do you want to volunteer your home for such a battle? BeachMagoo

 

 

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

Drats! You were so, so close. But then you you just *had* to find some nugget of equivalency by bringing up the BLM movement. (BTW, you are wrong about that movement, but getting into that may be deemed OT, so I won't)

 

Why is it so hard for you to unequivocally condemn violent white supremacist bigotry?

I think you misinterpreted my post, or confused me with someone else.  I generally leave emotional arguments to others, I like to stick to facts and point out claims that are unsubstantiated by credible sources.

 

BTW, I wasn't attempting humor when I posted about BLM.  Perhaps because I spent a number of years in the western US, when I read BLM I think of Bureau of Land Management.

[JCauto]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

BTW, I wasn't attempting humor when I posted about BLM.  Perhaps because I spent a number of years in the western US, when I read BLM I think of Bureau of Land Management.

Not just there - much of the irrigation work done in Thailand was based on the Bureau's excellent standard designs and guidance but adjusted for the local conditions.

[JCauto]

20 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

 

I know it goes against your agenda but Antifa are a hate group. They are also technically a terrorist group too.

Just because they don't fit in with the current new definition of a hate group, they most definitely are a mob of violent thugs driven by hate. You can continue to pretend to not know this but soon enough it will be undeniable.

So again, I condemn all hate groups, including Antifa. Maybe especially Antifa seeing as they are the root cause of all is this really.

 

 

So you just keep repeating "Antifa and BLM are hate groups", like a proper parrot, and using similar logic, i.e., things you've been taught to repeat by your masters. But you've already acknowledged that they're not a hate group, at least according to our current definitions. Just yours.

So tell us KunMatt, why are Antifa and BLM "violent hate groups"? Do you have any evidence other than just repeating it over and over again? This is just more equivalence, desperately trying to equate one side to a far more extreme and vicious opposite. Provide us some facts that enable us to judge whether this is true or not. Similar to others, I hadn't even been aware of whatever Antifa is prior to this discussion, it's just an Alt-Right code word. How many people have they killed? How many buildings have they blown up? Can you explain why 2/3 of the violent extremist terrorism that occurs in the USA is from Right-Wing Extremists?

[Thakkar]

45 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

 

I know it goes against your agenda but Antifa are a hate group. They are also technically a terrorist group too.

Just because they don't fit in with the current new definition of a hate group, they most definitely are a mob of violent thugs driven by hate. You can continue to pretend to not know this but soon enough it will be undeniable.

So again, I condemn all hate groups, including Antifa. Maybe especially Antifa seeing as they are the root cause of all is this really.

 

 

 

One of your earlier posts shows that you think Soros (a Jew, and a leftist, btw—the two groups previous fascist regimes have hunted and killed) is financing the Antifa who are really fascists pretending to be anti-fascists so that they can fight...fascists. 

 

So forgive me if I don't buy your line that the Antifa are a "hate group"

 

And what is "technically a terrorist group"? Have they committed any acts that were designated by the authorities as terrorist acts? Do they have FBI designation as a terrorist group? Or are they "technically terrorist" because you just don't like their anti-fascist stance? (Sorry, to you, they are fascist anti-fascist—whatever that is)

 

So, to be clear, you refuse to —unequivocally, without qualification and without lumping together your own personally designated "hate groups"—Nazis

 

Ok, got it. Thanks for a spirited discussion. 

[Thakkar]

37 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

I think you misinterpreted my post, or confused me with someone else.  I generally leave emotional arguments to others, I like to stick to facts and point out claims that are unsubstantiated by credible sources.

 

BTW, I wasn't attempting humor when I posted about BLM.  Perhaps because I spent a number of years in the western US, when I read BLM I think of Bureau of Land Management.

Sorry, I misquoted the post I wanted to reply to. I thought was replying to KunMatt

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

I checked Wikipedia. It says some Antifa groups cause property damage during protests (which I don't condone), but doesn't say anything about violence.  I have found no credible sources to support you claims that "Antifa are a fascist, violent hate group funded and organised by George Soros - an actual real life Nazi."

 

BLM stands for Bureau of Land Management, not a racist violent hate group.  If you are referring to a less well-known BLM you should give its full name.

 

Regarding letting hate groups battle it out among each other, the people of Charlottesburg did not choose their city as a battleground.   The White Supremacists did.  Do you want to volunteer your home for such a battle? BeachMagoo

 

Yes, Antifa is not funded by Soros. Soros is not a Nazi. Demonizing Soros is often code for Jew hating internationally.

 

Yes, such garbage propaganda is rampant on alt right internet sites. Such fake conspiracy theories should not be broadcast here and thank you for confronting that.

 

Soros does fund some progressive organizations. 

 

Unless some member can provide hard evidence that Soros funds antifa (which has worthy goals to fight fascism but very questionable tactics) that are not from some alt-right / Nazi / white supremacist websites, I don't think such garbage should be tolerated. They probably won't because it probably doesn't exist. 

 

To add, I don't think funding antifa would be all that bad. Although I don't like their tactics, their goal, fighting fascism, is one I totally support. So if someone can prove with a CREDIBLE source that Soros funds antifa ... then OK. But until that time I don't think spitting out alt right propaganda about Soros is at all OK. 

 

Even with questionable tactics, there is no moral equivalency between antifa and American white supremacists. The former are anti-fascist, pro racial equality, the latter are racist, white supremacist, and pro fascist. 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Jingthing

[KunMatt]

 
One of your earlier posts shows that you think Soros (a Jew, and a leftist, btw—the two groups previous fascist regimes have hunted and killed) is financing the Antifa who are really fascists pretending to be anti-fascists so that they can fight...fascists. 
 
So forgive me if I don't buy your line that the Antifa are a "hate group"
 
And what is "technically a terrorist group"? Have they committed any acts that were designated by the authorities as terrorist acts? Do they have FBI designation as a terrorist group? Or are they "technically terrorist" because you just don't like their anti-fascist stance? (Sorry, to you, they are fascist anti-fascist—whatever that is)
 
So, to be clear, you refuse to —unequivocally, without qualification and without lumping together your own personally designated "hate groups"—Nazis
 
Ok, got it. Thanks for a spirited discussion. 

Well yes, Antifa have been designated a terror group by the authorities.

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

Also, any search for Antifa on any media site will bring up nothing but videos of Antifa being thugs and terrorising everyone around them.

After Charlottesville, Antifa are going to be very much in the public eye. So everytime they crack civilians over the head with bike D-Locks or beat the hell out of people because they don't agree with them, then this will be covered in the news.

And soon enough what I said about them being a fascist hate group will be common knowledge and undeniable. And this post with all your praise for a violent extremist hate group will still be here for all to see.

[JHolmesJr]

Funny how many anti trumpers sound like a hate group too. 

 

A most irrational hate group. 

[iReason]

25 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

Funny how many anti trumpers sound like a hate group too. 

A most irrational hate group. 

 

Funny how all of your posts sound like Trolling.

[KunMatt]

 
Funny how all of your posts sound like Trolling.

"Everybody who I disagree with is a troll" - iReason. 2017

I can see why you like a militant leftist hate group who stiffles all free speech so much.

[JHolmesJr]

32 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Funny how all of your posts sound like Trolling.

there there….no need to get miffed just because your candidate lost and you had to come back with a new nick.

[Jingthing]

Well yes, Antifa have been designated a terror group by the authorities.

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

Also, any search for Antifa on any media site will bring up nothing but videos of Antifa being thugs and terrorising everyone around them.

After Charlottesville, Antifa are going to be very much in the public eye. So everytime they crack civilians over the head with bike D-Locks or beat the hell out of people because they don't agree with them, then this will be covered in the news.

And soon enough what I said about them being a fascist hate group will be common knowledge and undeniable. And this post with all your praise for a violent extremist hate group will still be here for all to see.

Your link didn't label them a terrorist group as you claimed. Big surprise.

[iReason]

Whoa! Two delusional concoctions in a row.

Bizarre. 

 

41 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

I can see why you like a militant leftist hate group who stiffles all free speech so much.

 

 

16 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

there there….no need to get miffed just because your candidate lost and you had to come back with a new nick.

 

 

[KunMatt]

Your link didn't label them a terrorist group as you claimed. Big surprise.

 

Really? So what did New Jersey's Homeland Security counter terrorism division have to say about Antifa on their official gov website?

 

Would love to hear your blinkered interpretation of that official report.

 

Did they say they were a peaceful protest group by any chance?

 

[KunMatt]

Really? So what did New Jersey's Homeland Security counter terrorism division have to say about Antifa on their gov website?

Would love to hear your blinkered interpretation of that official report.

Did they say they were a peaceful protest group by any chance?

[KunMatt]

Really? So what did New Jersey's Homeland Security counter terrorism division have to say about Antifa on their gov website?

Would love to hear your blinkered interpretation of that official report.

Did they say they were a peaceful protest group by any chance?

[Jingthing]

 
Really? So what did New Jersey's Homeland Security counter terrorism division have to say about Antifa on their official gov website?
 
Would love to hear your blinkered interpretation of that official report.
 
Did they say they were a peaceful protest group by any chance?
 

Again either you did not read or lied about the site. Not called a terror group. You said they did call them that. It's called being busted. Man up and face it.

[KunMatt]

Again either you did not read or lied about the site. Not called a terror group. You said they did call them that. It's called being busted. Man up and face it.

They are a terror group. One which you are defending.

Good luck dealing with that in the future when they are truly exposed.

There's no way they can hide their activities any more. The days of getting away with smashing up local businesses and assaulting civilians and hiding behind a fake name are now long gone. I guarantee that the next riot Anitfa organises will have even their supporters turning against them when it becomes obvious that they are a mob of thugs pretending to be a peaceful protest group.

Let's not forget at that time that you are on their side.

[iReason]

1 hour ago, KunMatt said:

Well yes, Antifa have been designated a terror group by the authorities.
https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa
Also, any search for Antifa on any media site will bring up nothing but videos of Antifa being thugs and terrorising everyone around them.
After Charlottesville, Antifa are going to be very much in the public eye.

So everytime they crack civilians over the head with bike D-Locks or beat the hell out of people because they don't agree with them, then this will be covered in the news.
And soon enough what I said about them being a fascist hate group will be common knowledge and undeniable. And this post with all your praise for a violent extremist hate group will still be here for all to see.

 

What a pile of hysterical hyperbolic B.S.

 

Starting with your LIE :  "Antifa have been designated a terror group by the authorities."

As previously noted, nowhere in your link from:

The State of New Jersey Office of Homeland Security and Preparedness: does it say anything of the sort.

Jersey?

 

But it does have some good news:

"Anti-fascist groups, or “Antifa,” are a subset of the anarchist movement and focus on issues involving racism, sexism, and anti-Semitism,

as well as other perceived injustices." 

 

"On April 18, following the Patriots Day Free Speech Rally in Berkeley, California—which turned violent—an Antifa member wrote,

“We must realize that these days are going to become more and more common, unless we put a nail in this coffin once and for all.”

 

You would agree that NAZIS ought to be confronted wouldn't you?

 

Any patriotic American would.

[Jingthing]

They are a terror group. One which you are defending.

Good luck dealing with that in the future when they are truly exposed.

There's no way they can hide their activities any more. The days of getting away with smashing up local businesses and assaulting civilians and hiding behind a fake name are now long gone. I guarantee that the next riot Anitfa organises will have even their supporters turning against them when it becomes obvious that they are a mob of thugs pretending to be a peaceful protest group.

Let's not forget at that time that you are on their side.

It's your opinion that they're a terror group. Fine.. What I'm saying is the website that you claim labels them a terrorist group does not do that. Man up and admit your error intentional or not. I know which I think.

[KunMatt]

It's your opinion that they're a terror group. Fine.. What I'm saying is the website that you claim labels them a terrorist group does not do that. Man up and admit your error intentional or not. I know which I think.

I would love to hear why you think NJ Homeland security has Antifa listed under their counter terrorism division?

[iReason]

14 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

They are a terror group. One which you are defending.
Good luck dealing with that in the future when they are truly exposed.

 

 

Ahh, OK got it.

 

You decided they are a terror group.

 

So you posted a link that does not substantiate your LIE.

Hoping no one would read it?

Or, you saw things that weren't there?

I'll go with the latter.

 

What has been exposed, clearly, is your feeble attempt to spread disinformation.

Thereby destroying any credibility you may have had.

[KunMatt]

 

Ahh, OK got it.

 

You decided they are a terror group.

 

So you posted a link that does not substantiate your LIE.

Hoping no one would read it?

Or, you saw things that weren't there?

I'll go with the latter.

 

What has been exposed, clearly, is your feeble attempt to spread disinformation.

Thereby destroying any credibility you may have had.

 

Ahh Mr everyone's a Troll.

 

If you want to butt in, feel free to answer the same post:

 

Why do you think NJ Homeland security has Antifa listed under their counter terrorism division?

 

 

[Meljames]

Antifa is rooted in militant-ism,  Their history of Molotov cocktails and other violence  makes it easy  to mark them as terrorists, especially for a right leaning establishment. Naive  to paint them as peaceful protesters. 

[KunMatt]

Antifa is rooted in militant-ism,  Their history of Molotov cocktails and other violence  makes it easy  to mark them as terrorists, especially for a right leaning establishment. Naive  to paint them as peaceful protesters. 

I'm pretty sure everyone here really knows this but for the time being they can hide behind "Antifa means anti fascism therefore they can never be a hate group"

What's done in the dark always comes to light. And I have no doubt that soon enough everyone will not be able to deny what is really going on here.

And everyone who said they supported this terrorist group will not be able to delete what they said at that time.

[Opl]

"Despite being marginalized,  Mr. Bannon has cautioned the president not to criticize far-right activists too severely for fear of antagonizing a small but energetic part of his base. (Others) say the problem is not Mr. Bannon’s closeness to the far right, it is that he has not done enough for them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/steve-bannon-trump-white-house.html

 

Fox News CEO Rupert Murdoch has repeatedly urged the president to fire Steve Bannon from his role as White House Chief Strategist
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4791258/Rupert-Murdoch-urged-Trump-cut-Steve-Bannon.html#ixzz4ppuKrJfN



 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Opl

[Meljames]

5 minutes ago, KunMatt said:

 

I'm pretty sure everyone here really knows this but for the time being they can hide behind "Antifa means anti fascism therefore they can never be a hate group"

What's done in the dark always comes to light. And I have no doubt that soon enough everyone will not be able to deny what is really going on here.

And everyone who said they supported this terrorist group will not be able to delete what they said at that time.

 

They're not well known or organized yet. I think many join,or call themselves Antifa supporters strictly because of the name. Time will show their  true colors. Especially after this weekend. CNN did a pretty good report on them earlier.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Meljames