Traffic hell when terminal 21 opens ?

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if T21 is as good as the Bkk one it's going to wipe out Central, which IMO will be as busy as Avenues. As the traffic gets worse ( and it will ), it's going to be way less time in a traffic jam to get there if coming from  Sukhumvit. The Naklua crowd won't be passing by to go to Central, as it's within walking distance from the big hotels.

Marina will be lucky to survive at all.

I disagree. Central won't be sidelined due to its superior location for tourists. "busy as Avenues" indicates there'll be no one there LOL. You can't compare the two.

 

All new Marina Mall tenants knew about T21 when they came back after the refurbishment that was completed in December 2016... yet invested big money. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.     

[balo]

The lady at the receiption T21 told me October 2018 , that was 6 months ago . Not sure if they can get anything near that date , I would be surprised. 

[newnative]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if T21 is as good as the Bkk one it's going to wipe out Central, which IMO will be as busy as Avenues. As the traffic gets worse ( and it will ), it's going to be way less time in a traffic jam to get there if coming from  Sukhumvit. The Naklua crowd won't be passing by to go to Central, as it's within walking distance from the big hotels.

Marina will be lucky to survive at all.

     Festival will do just fine and will be more enjoyable when it's a little less crowded.  I think Marina will survive, as well, because it has a different function to T21, in my opinion.  I go to Marina because most of the major banks are there--I can do my banking.  AIS and True are there--I can pay my internet and phone bills.  A big grocery is there--I can do my weekly food shopping.  And, have lunch or dinner while I am there at one of the numerous restaurants.  Best of all, it's very easy to park in the parking garage and wheel my groceries out to the car--I'll choose easy any day.  I likely will end up going to T21occasionally for entertainment but still use Marina at least weekly for routine errands.  

[Destiny1990]

When will a smart developer built a Jomtien seaside shop mall?

Pattaya has enough more then.

[janclaes47]

4 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

When will a smart developer built a Jomtien seaside shop mall?

Pattaya has enough more then.

 

Seems not, because they are building another shopping Plaza on Sukhumvit at the location of the old Index, and Thaibev gonna build one more on second road.

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

When will a smart developer built a Jomtien seaside shop mall?

Pattaya has enough more then.

 

[champers]

People need to factor in the increased number of visitors in years ahead. There are thousands of new hotel rooms either recently built or being built. One new mall will become 2, then 3 .... Pattaya is an ever growing city.

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

 

Seems not, because they are building another shopping Plaza on Sukhumvit at the location of the old Index, and Thaibev gonna build one more on second road.

Where on 2nd?

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, champers said:

People need to factor in the increased number of visitors in years ahead. There are thousands of new hotel rooms either recently built or being built. One new mall will become 2, then 3 .... Pattaya is an ever growing city.

Yeah, time for some real mass transit.

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Where on 2nd?

There has been a thread about not so long ago, opposite the Hard rock hotel at the site of that white hotel of which I forgot the name, since he has to move Big C north pattaya.

 

As far as the rumours are true, he owns almost all the land on both sides of second road in that area, and there are rumours for years that he would build an Asiatic between second and beach road.

[champers]

6 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

There has been a thread about not so long ago, opposite the Hard rock hotel at the site of that white hotel of which I forgot the name, since he has to move Big C north pattaya.

 

As far as the rumours are true, he owns almost all the land on both sides of second road in that area, and there are rumours for years that he would build an Asiatic between second and beach road.

It is the Grand Sole hotel; I started the thread. There is a sign on the fencing stating the hotel is being renovated, but there is still a large swathe of land between the hotel and 2nd Road's Soi 4. I was told a Big C would be built and others said Tops would then replace the Big C in Central Marina.

I believe a Foodland is due to open at T21.

[norrska]

16 hours ago, tropo said:

I disagree. Central won't be sidelined due to its superior location for tourists. "busy as Avenues" indicates there'll be no one there LOL. You can't compare the two.

 

All new Marina Mall tenants knew about T21 when they came back after the refurbishment that was completed in December 2016... yet invested big money. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.     

Have to agree, it's all about location.  Also Central has a huge Russian fanbase who schlep over to the food court daily by baht bus for dinner from Jomtien and nether-regions to the south.  Can't see them spending an extra 15 minutes to get to T21.

Edited March 2, 2018 by norrska

[guzzi850m2]

I was in the T21 in Bangkok app 2 weeks ago and I found it a somewhat different shopping center compared to our own Central.

 

The escalators for all levels are located in the front of the building when you enter in a big empty space and then there are escalators in the back as we see in Central. This gives a wow effect that I sort of like. From what I seen when passing the one being build here, the design will roughly be the same.

Looking forward to see it when opened, we live nearby, 10min scooter ride or so.

Those shopping centers are good for the hot season and have lunch/dinner, I seldom buy anything unless I stumble over something and then as mentioned, all the banks are there as well.  

 

[newnative]

9 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

There has been a thread about not so long ago, opposite the Hard rock hotel at the site of that white hotel of which I forgot the name, since he has to move Big C north pattaya.

 

As far as the rumours are true, he owns almost all the land on both sides of second road in that area, and there are rumours for years that he would build an Asiatic between second and beach road.

True.  The hotel is Grand Sole and Chang owns the large tract of land next to it extending quite a ways down the street.  Also the large empty land across the street and the Imperial Hotel. It will be interesting to see how it is all developed.

[bert bloggs]

When i started this thread ,it was just that i was peeved as i had been stuck in traffic and it made me think if its bad now ,God help us when terminal 21 opens. But i feel  that although Malls are nice in citys like Bangkok where there is lots of room ,i think that here in a seaside town like Pattaya they are overkill , the wife and i go to central now and again ,mainly for her to look at the sports shops and me to look at the girls legs as they go up the escalator!!,no only joking ,but to be honest apart from the food court ,we spend very little there as prices are less elswhere .

Anyway we will see , lets hope i am still going in another nine years ,so that we can see if the building collapses ,as a thread prophesized about central 9 years ago . 

[tropo]

6 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

I was in the T21 in Bangkok app 2 weeks ago and I found it a somewhat different shopping center compared to our own Central.

 

The escalators for all levels are located in the front of the building when you enter in a big empty space and then there are escalators in the back as we see in Central. This gives a wow effect that I sort of like. From what I seen when passing the one being build here, the design will roughly be the same.

Looking forward to see it when opened, we live nearby, 10min scooter ride or so.

Those shopping centers are good for the hot season and have lunch/dinner, I seldom buy anything unless I stumble over something and then as mentioned, all the banks are there as well.  

 

T21 has a smart business concept. To get to the food court and all the other restaurants you take the long escalator to the top floor for very good value eating, then after dinner, you have to snake your way back down slowly on short escalators. At one point you are forced to enter H&M. You can't just eat and quickly exit without at least doing some window shopping. This is probably the reason why the food court is one of the best (T21-Asoke) and best value as it gets a huge volume of people into the mall. It's an upmarket food court at budget prices. Finding a seat is a problem though, as well as queuing up to buy a food ticket.

[tropo]

18 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

When will a smart developer built a Jomtien seaside shop mall?

Pattaya has enough more then.

When a smart developer decides it's a smart investment. A "seaside shop mall" requires a huge volume of tourists. Jomtien is still too quiet. That's why they put regular malls along Sukhumvit Road with easy access for local residents. Jomtien tourists will always travel to Pattaya central malls (T21, Central), but Pattaya tourists would not travel to a remote shopping mall along Jomtien Beach Road.

[bkk6060]

Just now, tropo said:

When a smart developer decides it's a smart investment. A "seaside shop mall" requires a huge volume of tourists. Jomtien is still too quiet. That's why they put regular malls along Sukhumvit Road with easy access for local residents. Jomtien tourists will always travel to Pattaya central malls (T21, Central), but Pattaya tourists would not travel to a remote shopping mall along Jomtien Beach Road.

I use to not think this but if they put a mall in Jomtien it would be a great addition. There are more then enough people there and still plenty of open land.  Would probably help other businesses in the area not just the mall and would overall boost the "Jomtien economy" if there is such a thing.

Edited March 2, 2018 by bkk6060

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

When will a smart developer built a Jomtien seaside shop mall?

Pattaya has enough more then.

The question I've been asking for a decade. Seems strange to have so many in Pattaya and none at all in Jomptien.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

When a smart developer decides it's a smart investment. A "seaside shop mall" requires a huge volume of tourists. Jomtien is still too quiet. That's why they put regular malls along Sukhumvit Road with easy access for local residents. Jomtien tourists will always travel to Pattaya central malls (T21, Central), but Pattaya tourists would not travel to a remote shopping mall along Jomtien Beach Road.

Build it and they will come!

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, guzzi850m2 said:

I was in the T21 in Bangkok app 2 weeks ago and I found it a somewhat different shopping center compared to our own Central.

 

The escalators for all levels are located in the front of the building when you enter in a big empty space and then there are escalators in the back as we see in Central. This gives a wow effect that I sort of like. From what I seen when passing the one being build here, the design will roughly be the same.

Looking forward to see it when opened, we live nearby, 10min scooter ride or so.

Those shopping centers are good for the hot season and have lunch/dinner, I seldom buy anything unless I stumble over something and then as mentioned, all the banks are there as well.  

 

Strangely, T21 in Bkk does not have a Bkk Bank branch in it.

[tropo]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Build it and they will come!

Lucky you're not a developer then. They won't come for the very reasons I stated. Why would tourists travel to a beachside shopping mall in Jomtien when they already have many in Pattaya? Obviously, to the consternation of many TV Jomtien residents, the investors agree.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

Lucky you're not a developer then. They won't come for the very reasons I stated. Why would tourists travel to a beachside shopping mall in Jomtien when they already have many in Pattaya? Obviously, to the consternation of many TV Jomtien residents, the investors agree.

The people that built Promenada in Chiang Mai disagree with you.

[tropo]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

I use to not think this but if they put a mall in Jomtien it would be a great addition. There are more then enough people there and still plenty of open land.  Would probably help other businesses in the area not just the mall and would overall boost the "Jomtien economy" if there is such a thing.

Developers don't build malls for the convenience of local residents and tourists. They build them to make money. There are plenty of regular shopping malls nearby Jomtien on Sukhumvit Road, more than enough to serve local residents. One day it will happen, but right now there's a reason why T21 is being built in Pattaya and not Jomtien. Jomtien has a lot more growing up to do. That's not a shopping mall's job.

 

T21 developers obviously do their homework. They have the very best location possible in Bangkok at the intersection of 2 mass transit lines. Imagine the cost of that real estate.

[newnative]

32 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The question I've been asking for a decade. Seems strange to have so many in Pattaya and none at all in Jomptien.

Synergy. 

[tropo]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The people that built Promenada in Chiang Mai disagree with you.

LOL> send me some information and I'll check it out. I've never been to Chiang Mai and don't expect to go there anytime soon. Don't be lazy, if you're using another mall in another city to make a point, how about you provide some solid information.

 

I doubt the situation is anything close to the Jomtien-Pattaya situation.

Edited March 2, 2018 by tropo

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

Developers don't build malls for the convenience of local residents and tourists. They build them to make money. There are plenty of regular shopping malls nearby Jomtien on Sukhumvit Road, more than enough to serve local residents. One day it will happen, but right now there's a reason why T21 is being built in Pattaya and not Jomtien. Jomtien has a lot more growing up to do. That's not a shopping mall's job.

 

T21 developers obviously do their homework. They have the very best location possible in Bangkok at the intersection of 2 mass transit lines. Imagine the cost of that real estate.

They have the very best location possible in Bangkok at the intersection of 2 mass transit lines. Imagine the cost of that real estate.

And yet they built Central in Pattaya far away from the nearest road intersection, and no likelihood of a mass transit line opening for decades. T21 did get it right, as far as is possible in Pattaya.

55555555555555555555

[tropo]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They have the very best location possible in Bangkok at the intersection of 2 mass transit lines. Imagine the cost of that real estate.

And yet they built Central in Pattaya far away from the nearest road intersection, and no likelihood of a mass transit line opening for decades. T21 did get it right, as far as is possible in Pattaya.

55555555555555555555

Seriously?  5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

 

Central is the BEST place for a seaside mall in Pattaya. It is smack bang in the middle. The proof is that it has been doing well for 9 years.

 

T21 will also do well, I'm sure.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

LOL> send me some information and I'll check it out. I've never been to Chiang Mai and don't expect to go there anytime soon. Don't be lazy, if you're using another mall in another city to make a point, how about you provide some solid information.

 

I doubt the situation is anything close to the Jomtien-Pattaya situation.

OK, but only because you put a LOL at the start.

Promenada was built way out in the sticks in scrub land, across the superhighway ( but right beside a main arterial intersection and close to the superhighway ). They must have got a super deal on the land as nothing in the area. Now, the area around it is where all the high end super expensive residential accommodation is being built, and Promenada is a high end expensive mall designed to capture that captive demographic.

Within 5 years or so they are set to really clean up. Just had to have the foresight and the deep pockets to build where they did and wait long enough.

 

The point is that a mall would cost less to build in Jomptien now, as it is going to get built up as people flee the appalling traffic and disintegrating infrastructure of Pattaya. Far better beach too.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

Seriously?  5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

 

Central is the BEST place for a seaside mall in Pattaya. It is smack bang in the middle. The proof is that it has been doing well for 9 years.

 

T21 will also do well, I'm sure.

Well, the cinema, the bowling alley and the restaurants have done well. Unknown about the shops. They never seem very busy when I go there.

Don't know if you have ever been in T21 in Bkk, but that place really is doing well, always packed, and as long as they stick to the plan, T21 in Pattaya is going to wipe out Central. It's just a far better mall. Could end up like Central World, with a few people wandering around the customer devoid hallways most days.

In Central Festival the cinema, the bowling alley and the restaurants will probably continue to do well, but don't know about the shops.

Anyway the Royal Garden mall owners will probably be lovin' it.