British expats in Thailand feeling the misery as the UK pound drops to record low levels.

[Watchful]

10 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

 No longer entitled to receive the National Health Service, frozen State pensions, less interest on our UK bank accounts being non residents and all other UK benefits denied to us, whether we officially emigrated or not, but still eligible to pay UK tax on our savings or any other investments or incomes we receive from the UK, including our pensions. And for paying UK tax we receive absolutely nothing. This now leaves us at the tender mercies of the banking institutions who want their slice of our hard earned cash and again for the pleasure of banking with them are offering absolutely nothing. This has to be the worse stitch up of the century,

 

Cyberfarang, I understand your frustration with low interest rates. Central Banks around the world have dropped interest rates to ridiculous level in order to "stimulate" economies. There is lots of risks in what they are doing such as creating real estate and securities "bubbles", in addition to the potential for currency valuations spiraling out of control.

 

Given the above where you get little to no interest and the high risk of further currency devaluations, is there any reason to leave your money in UK banks? Now, I would never suggest Thai banks as moving money into Thailand seems to be strictly a "one way street", but there are other options.

 

For example, you can get 10 year CD's issued by US banks 100% protected by FDIC with annual interest rates around 3%. Naturally these would be strictly US$  denominated accounts. Nevertheless, in spite of Trump's desire for a weak dollar, the Fed is committed to unwinding their vast debt and is slowly returning interest rates to normal. 

 

I mean it just seems like there are some very low risk options to leaving money in banks paying ... nothing and watching current devaluations at the same time.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Watchful

[jeab1980]

Im at a loss on the no NHS bit? I still have an adress in UK still registered with a quack i ring the quack every 3 months for a repeat prescription which my daughter picks up and throws in bin. I have been back several times and recived free NHS treatment. State pension well yes i agree pathetic but i dont claim it yet as they keep moving the goal posts.

I pay no UK tax on my pensions or house. House is looked after by my daughter in return for rent free accommodation for her and her family.

Pensions i moved off shore many years ago.

 

[torrzent]

12 hours ago, Craig krup said:

I keep investment trusts with them. I think it costs £45 a year, or something like that. They suggested that they would treat trusts like funds until me and thousands of others said, Alliance Trust here we come. They keep sending bone emails, however. 

I suggest you dinosaurs learn the meaning of ETF....your ideas are obsolete!

[Fairynuff]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

You are living in dream land good choice of name fairynuff. By 2019 UiK will once again be standing alone

Completely agree.....totally alone like the proverbial leper. Btw...what's UiK?

Edited August 29, 2017 by Fairynuff

[Kwasaki]

20 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

Oh man! God, even the thought of 75. I can feel myself stirring at the very contemplation of it. 75. Mmmmmmm. I'd definitely fill my boots at 75. 

Never thought about it at the time too busy buying stuff and settling in.

It lasted 10 days and at the time could get 60,000 baht a day free from the ATM, the rate all went down hill from then on as l remember.

My UK pension is frozen the other thing I would like frozen is the rate frozen at 50. 

[Orac]

I suggest you dinosaurs learn the meaning of ETF....your ideas are obsolete!

Though I hold a lot of ETFs myself they may not be the answer to everyone's problems and have a lot of hidden risks, particularly synthetic and leveraged ETFs, many of which have been sold to retail investors with little understanding of what they actually are. In a sudden market downturn they will be vulnerable when the liquidity is not there in the markets to offload them.



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[Tofer]

19 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

At the back end of 1997 it was touching 90 THB/GBP.

For a couple of days it reached over 93. Happy days for some I'm sure.

A long time following it was in the 70's. I remember in 1995 when I left after 6 years in Thailand it was 38.

 

Hats off to anyone who think they can plan for those variations. 99% of the so called financial experts didn't predict the crash in late 80's etc, so what chance has the average person with little or no knowledge of such financial intricacies or crystal balls...

 

I only considered moving back to live in Thailand when I had more than enough to set us up in a good retirement position. But it's still a risk not knowing what the future holds in terms of exchange rates, world economies, political machinations, war, etc etc.....

 

Those who come here on a shoestring are certainly chancing their arm..... If they are honest they will admit this. However distasteful it may be to live in UK, or wherever else, as a national (developed countries) you would be less concerned about surviving. You make your bed and you lay in it, presumably with some forethought, so no point complaining now.

[mommysboy]

I don't think well-heeled expats will feel the pinch much.  It's at the lower end where folk might suffer- isn't that always the case?

 

You have to assume that the lowest profile is 1 million baht or so in the bank (for retirement visa), plus some income coming in via pension or teaching work, or whatever.  I'd contend life won't swing like it used to, but we are retirees.  The simple things in life are still cheap in Thailand.

 

Regarding food, well a healthy diet requires plenty of fresh fruit and veg, plus healthy carbs, and all these things are plentiful and inexpensive. Then there is a clean room, smart phone, tv, microwave, etc.  All these things shouldn't break the bank.  You can exercise in the park of an early evening.  A hobby like writing costs nothing of course.

 

It's only when you hit the bars that things get expensive.

[billd766]

13 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You mean permanent resident or perhaps citizen.  The non immigrant visa has little to do with the issue but could serve as a symbol of intention like labelling yourself an expat also could, unfortunately for most the term expat is actually just a manifestation of Western-centrism that is used in attempt to separate themselves from other immigrants.

 

I am not interested in what you think I mean or what you percieve that I think. You have little knowledge about me or most of the other expats here in Thailand, and no matter what words you choose to use we are still expats.

 

I know what I mean and I know that a Non Imm retirement extension is all I can get in Thailand. I am quite happy with my situation and I know that in REALITY I cannot be a permanent resident or a citizen of Thailand and I am quite happy with that.

 

Therefore I am an expat who could move to another country other than Thailand or the UK.

 

You can split hairs and meanings all day but it makes no difference.

[scubascuba3]

I suggest you dinosaurs learn the meaning of ETF....your ideas are obsolete!

ETFs are over rated. I remember late 80s when they were talking about unit trusts replacing investment trusts and they are still going.

[Craig krup]

12 hours ago, Fairynuff said:

Bigotry is a kind of personality disorder 

But what does that mean? You do realize that when someone says, "The UK doesn't have enough goods and services to give everyone in Europe (or the world) six pounds for every one they earn" they're just stating a fact. When they say, "Any welfare state has to be based on a view of how people will change their behaviour given the creation of that welfare system" they're expressing a reasonable view which is as close to a fact as makes no difference. Adults know these things. 

[Craig krup]

3 hours ago, torrzent said:

I suggest you dinosaurs learn the meaning of ETF....your ideas are obsolete!

Sometimes dinosaurs worry about things that hip groovy cats don't understand. Stock lending? Non-physical replication? Company law, and who - exactly - is held responsible in lots of possible scenarios (such as counter-party problems)? 

 

No, I'll take an independent board and 160 years of well-established law, thanks. You can be the test case that sorts out what happens when ETFs go wrong. 

[cyberfarang]

3 hours ago, Tofer said:

For a couple of days it reached over 93. Happy days for some I'm sure.

A long time following it was in the 70's. I remember in 1995 when I left after 6 years in Thailand it was 38.

 

Hats off to anyone who think they can plan for those variations. 99% of the so called financial experts didn't predict the crash in late 80's etc, so what chance has the average person with little or no knowledge of such financial intricacies or crystal balls...

 

I only considered moving back to live in Thailand when I had more than enough to set us up in a good retirement position. But it's still a risk not knowing what the future holds in terms of exchange rates, world economies, political machinations, war, etc etc.....

 

Those who come here on a shoestring are certainly chancing their arm..... If they are honest they will admit this. However distasteful it may be to live in UK, or wherever else, as a national (developed countries) you would be less concerned about surviving. You make your bed and you lay in it, presumably with some forethought, so no point complaining now.

I also made a killing when the baht rates increased to 90 odd to the £. At the time I brought over thousands of pounds to bank here in Thailand. It was like hitting the jackpot or winning a lottery.

 

I keep half my savings in a UK offshore bank and the other half in Thailand. When I decided to smack my ass down in Thailand, I estimated what my cost of living expenditure would be increasing each year with inflation at 43 baht to £1. Only spending my monthly budget based on 43 baht to £1, all the residue money from my monthly income I banked into a Thai long term fixed savings accounts that paid the highest interest rates and let it accumulate over the years. This means any exchange rates I receive over 43 baht to £1 is a bonus.

 

I`m on 2 pensions, a private pension and UK State pension. My message to those who would be on just enough money at the present bank exchange, bank interest and inflationary rates and no substancial savings in the bank, is you`re better off not to take a chance.

[Bonobojt]

I'm a young 26 year old guy from the UK, have a job and paying a pension, hopefully I can retire in Thailand when I'm old enough

 

but who knows what will happen in the future, what rules and laws will change, not to mention how different the world will be by the time I'm in my 60s and 70s

[i claudius]

You are living in dream land good choice of name fairynuff. By 2019 UiK will once again be standing alone

I voted for Brexit better to die as a lion than live as a lamb

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[i claudius]

I'm a young 26 year old guy from the UK, have a job and paying a pension, hopefully I can retire in Thailand when I'm old enough
 
but who knows what will happen in the future, what rules and laws will change, not to mention how different the world will be by the time I'm in my 60s and 70s

I dread to think what the world will be like then.i doubt there will be any state pension and the population will have gone through the roof. I hope i am wrong for the sake of my kids and grandchild or grandchildren by then but i fear i am not.

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[jeab1980]

32 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

I'm a young 26 year old guy from the UK, have a job and paying a pension, hopefully I can retire in Thailand when I'm old enough

 

but who knows what will happen in the future, what rules and laws will change, not to mention how different the world will be by the time I'm in my 60s and 70s

By the time you get to pension age (state) what is it now for your age 70? It will probably be 75 by then. Finish work on a friday draw pension on monday get fitted for coffin friday. Best advise save like mad now whilst you can invest that saving in a good off shore pension fund. Organise it so you can retire at your leisure when you want to.

[whiteman]

One has to have patience with the currency market I am a brit but left 45 years ago to live in the N.Z then moved on to Thailand to live here for the last 14+ years in retirement.

 

I waited and waited for the Kiwi to hit 25 to the Bhat for my kiwi private pension goes into my kiwi bank it hit it 2 weeks ago and i brought over $100,000 kiwi got 2.5 million bhat and the kiwi private pension chunks on and on. Since then the kiwi has slid 4.5% in 2 weeks  so got on the right side of 112k bhat savings. So one has to just wait and the cycle will return when i arrived in Thailand the kiwi was 23.7 to the bhat and over the last 14 years the best it has gone to for me was 26.5 and the worse was 22.3. try to bring over when it gets to say 24.7 and that could take a whole year to hit that mark. So again one has to wait it out.  The 2.5 million just brought over will last me just over 2 years and in that time it should have hit near 25 again. So just keep repeating till I die. I am aged 70

[rickudon]

Trying to find an alternative investment to savings accounts can provide a bit of a challenge,and it also leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I was looking at buying some shares in water companies (because it is a product with no real substitute and production costs are fairly stable), so i looked at Thames Water. It is no longer a public company, having been bought out of public ownership by a network of international trusts. It no longer pays corporation tax (why?) and pays massive dividends to it's offshore owners. Also being asset stripped and little investment. The next water company was in a similar situation, but still had public ownership - but paid no dividends to share holders. The reality is that to many British companies have become vehicles to drain capital out of the country. 

 

Not surprising then that my FTSE tracker fund has been a Dodo for the last 10 years, having achieved a growth of around 10% in that time (mainly being in negative territory). I do have some other investments, but they have only done slightly better. I actually achieve similar returns on my savings (where, due to much account switching, i still get at least 2-3%).

 

I have decided to cash all the surplus in and spend it, after all i may as well enjoy about 3 years before it is gone. I might have gone as well. I will still have survival level money after that, if bad times persist.

[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I am not interested in what you think I mean or what you percieve that I think. You have little knowledge about me or most of the other expats here in Thailand, and no matter what words you choose to use we are still expats.

 

I know what I mean and I know that a Non Imm retirement extension is all I can get in Thailand. I am quite happy with my situation and I know that in REALITY I cannot be a permanent resident or a citizen of Thailand and I am quite happy with that.

 

Therefore I am an expat who could move to another country other than Thailand or the UK.

 

You can split hairs and meanings all day but it makes no difference.

 

Not splitting hairs, just not inventing meanings like you.  It has nothing to do with citizenship nor ability to move to another country, just intention, if it is your intention to stay then you are an immigrant regardless of your visa status, if it is your intention to leave after a while then you are an expat.  Funny that Westerners who do not fit the criteria of expats reject being labelled as immigrants and also refuse to give the same label to non westerners who do actually meet the criteria of expats, a non westerner is always an immigrant in their mind regardless of what their intention is.  Now, I don't know which you are, that is your concern, but I am sure you know that many many people here who call themselves expats are in fact immigrants who happen to be from Western countries.

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Not splitting hairs, just not inventing meanings like you.  It has nothing to do with citizenship nor ability to move to another country, just intention, if it is your intention to stay then you are an immigrant regardless of your visa status, if it is your intention to leave after a while then you are an expat.  Funny that Westerners who do not fit the criteria of expats reject being labelled as immigrants and also refuse to give the same label to non westerners who do actually meet the criteria of expats, a non westerner is always an immigrant in their mind regardless of what their intention is.  Now, I don't know which you are, that is your concern, but I am sure you know that many many people here who call themselves expats are in fact immigrants who happen to be from Western countries.

YOU are the one inventing meanings here with your "intention" nonsense!

 

Under Thai immigration law, retirees like billd766 and myself are classed as NON-IMMIGRANTS. What our long-term plans might (or might not) be has nothing to do with this status as far as the powers-that-be here in LOS (whose views are the ones which count here) are concerned.

[Kieran00001]

12 minutes ago, OJAS said:

YOU are the one inventing meanings here with your "intention" nonsense!

 

Under Thai immigration law, retirees like billd766 and myself are classed as NON-IMMIGRANTS. What our long-term plans might (or might not) be has nothing to do with this status as far as the powers-that-be here in LOS (whose views are the ones which count here) are concerned.

 

Lol, I am not talking about how Thai immigration class you, that has exactly zero to do with this, by the way, they do not offer an immigrant status, nor do they offer expat class, obviously I am talking about how you chose to class yourself, and that has everything to do with your long term plans, at least it does if you understand the difference between the two words immigrant and expat and are not swayed to use the term expat for yourself through western centrisism.  Honestly, woukd you call yourself an immigrant if you had permanent residency?

[Bonobojt]

3 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

By the time you get to pension age (state) what is it now for your age 70? It will probably be 75 by then. Finish work on a friday draw pension on monday get fitted for coffin friday. Best advise save like mad now whilst you can invest that saving in a good off shore pension fund. Organise it so you can retire at your leisure when you want to.

I just checked, I'll reach state pension age at 68, in the year 2059.. I could be alive still if I look after myself, eat heathy and world war 3 doesn't start ..

[jeab1980]

4 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

I just checked, I'll reach state pension age at 68, in the year 2059.. I could be alive still if I look after myself, eat heathy and world war 3 doesn't start ..

Thats 68 now you can forget that it will climb to at least 70 before then

[Craig krup]

19 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Thats 68 now you can forget that it will climb to at least 70 before then

Yup. They move the goalposts all the time. The really annoying thing is working out how certain you are to benefit from voluntary part III national insurance contributions. You just know that at some point they'll let all the *******s who didn't pay have it anyway. Besides, if you don't have a pension and don't own property and end up back in the UK the welfare state (minimum income guarantee, housing benefit etc) will kick in. You'd have been no better off if you'd saved a load and paid the part III. 

 

You've either got to have a lot - taking you right our of means testing - or nothing at all. You can't get caught in the middle. 

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

Yup. They move the goalposts all the time. The really annoying thing is working out how certain you are to benefit from voluntary part III national insurance contributions. You just know that at some point they'll let all the *******s who didn't pay have it anyway. Besides, if you don't have a pension and don't own property and end up back in the UK the welfare state (minimum income guarantee, housing benefit etc) will kick in. You'd have been no better off if you'd saved a load and paid the part III. 

 

You've either got to have a lot - taking you right our of means testing - or nothing at all. You can't get caught in the middle. 

I have been shafted with NI contributions whist serving in HM forces its being taken to court by RBL basically they shafted all forces personel

 

[Craig krup]

Just now, jeab1980 said:

I have been shafted with NI contributions whist serving in HM forces its being taken to court by RBL basically they shafted all forces personel

 

 

I know someone who did 13 years in special forces. SF pay was ruled not to count for pension purposes, and then two years after he leaves (when, presumably, they're facing recruitment problems) they decide SF pay does count. But not retrospectively. He just accepted it. I could barely sleep for sympathetic outrage. I could have never taken that kind of loss with any equanimity at all. 

[scubascuba3]

 

 

 

my FTSE tracker fund has been a Dodo for the last 10 years, having achieved a growth of around 10% in that time

 

There's lots of chat about people might as well go into trackers rather than actively managed funds but its mostly xbollocksx, it depends where in the cycle it is, you bought at a high point so struggled for a long time. The last 10 years I've been in UK mid cap and performance is +230%

 

[jeab1980]

15 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

I know someone who did 13 years in special forces. SF pay was ruled not to count for pension purposes, and then two years after he leaves (when, presumably, they're facing recruitment problems) they decide SF pay does count. But not retrospectively. He just accepted it. I could barely sleep for sympathetic outrage. I could have never taken that kind of loss with any equanimity at all. 

Really has nothing to do with pay ect although it does affect how much you pay. Its all about being contracted in or out we was told we were contracted in then they decided no we were all contracted out which basicaly mean for me with 42 reconable years ni contributions they will take 9 years off that so i only have 31 years pathetic goverment. Only hope RBL wins case

[topt]

5 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

Really has nothing to do with pay ect although it does affect how much you pay. Its all about being contracted in or out we was told we were contracted in then they decided no we were all contracted out which basicaly mean for me with 42 reconable years ni contributions they will take 9 years off that so i only have 31 years pathetic goverment. Only hope RBL wins case

If you were contracted out then the gov. was making contributions to another pension pot for you which you are supposed to have the benefit of.............

How it may have performed is another question.........