I partly heard an interesting debate on Radio Oxford today regarding the, ' Veritas Forum', something that I believe also exists in the U.S, although not entirely sure about this.

However, they are holding a debate for three days in Oxford regarding should we feel guilty if we are Rich, even in comparative terms, to certain areas in the World.

The Tag Line is Blessed are the Poor

I didn't catch all of it, but I think that will be the gist of it, what are your thoughts? Ever feel guilty about blowing a hundred quid or equivalent currency on a meal, or perhaps a rather thrilling Malt Whiskey , probably two three for that, buying a new car, or that new house, or even sending your child to Private School?

Have you ever felt guilty?

Moss

I've been both rich and poor.

The only time I felt guilty, was when I was poor.

This is a 'corker'! The quote is not 'Blessed are the poor' but 'Blessed are the poor in spirit:'. Also, as so often happens, these words should not be read in isolation, they are part of the sermon on the mount and should be read with all of the other 'beatitudes'. You are blessed if you are yearning for all the things of the spirit. If you are lacking in things of the spirit, you mourn the fact. You search after those other attributes listed, viz: (and this is the whole list)

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you."

There are more relevant quotes which could have been used, how about:

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, "Who then can be saved?"

Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.""

Mat 19 vv 23-26

So it's not saying it's impossible, but harder, as so many people put their trust in their riches. So in answer to the op, no, we should not feel guilty! As long as we acknowledge that our riches are a blessing from God.

Thanks Moss, another great post!

I am not sure if you are having a bash here suegha, my intention was to generate comment and discussion.

However, I will respond tomorrow.

Good Luck

Moss

Jeff,

I honestly know how you feel, although I have never been rich, but I have known comfortable in my own way, as for poor, I guess I understand, I never want to be there again.

Moss

I am not sure if you are having a bash here suegha, my intention was to generate comment and discussion.

However, I will respond tomorrow.

Good Luck

Moss

Jeff,

I honestly know how you feel, although I have never been rich, but I have known comfortable in my own way, as for poor, I guess I understand, I never want to be there again.

Moss

My dear friend Moss, I was certainly NOT having a bash, apologies if it came across as such. I think it's facinating how even people in the know mis-quote scripture.

The debate, however, is an interesting one. Especially when you try to define what rich and poor mean. I certainly would not call myself rich - and yet I have everything I need and want. Also, by comparison to my parents I certainly am rich, and they, by comparison to their parents, were rich. The definition of rich and poor changes culture to culture and era to era. Your question as to should we feel guilty is of special importance. I think nothing of buying a new car, spending vast amounts in a posh restaurant, having bottles of wine for that special occasion, etc. Yet my father and perhaps yours, would never buy a new car, even go to a restaurant, and the thought of having a wine rack, well, we maybe had wine once a year at Christmas.

So please, let's have some more thoughts on the op.

I think you have to define "poor".

You can be " rich" in many things, spirit, family,....................You can be Bill Gates, however if you do not have the former non-monetary riches, you can be the "poorest" man in the world.

My Grandad bless him, owned a brass foundry in the heart of the " Black Country ". He paid his workers well and when it came time to retire he could not face the prospect of selling up and perhaps leaving his friends to be exploited. Thus he divided the company equally without favour amongst all his staff and retired a " rich" man in heart, but certainly poorer in the pocket.

The well being did not last long as the wanke_rs sold out almost immediately to the would be exploiters, so they could be come collectively temporarily "richer". Grandad never got over it and died " poorer " in every sense.

I've been poor, as in literally staving poor. (not having anything to eat for several days at a time poor)* I felt guilty then for not being able to turn things around and for some of the things I had to do to survive.

And, while never super rich, I've had periods where I could throw money around with relative abandon and treat myself to whatever I wanted. (short of Ferraris and motor yachts, etc.)

The latter felt great, no guilt whatsoever.

(* best weight loss program I've ever been on. )

I'm from a low-income background, walked around with holes in my shoes in the winter, to making my own money and dropping $250 USD on a pair of shoes (only once, and I don't think I'd do it again; don't even know where those dam_n shoes are now).

I've worked for non-profits my entire life and I always felt that I never had anything to feel guilty about. The short answer to your question: yes. There are a number of homeless guys that sell newspapers in front of a huge glass window where I like to eat, and I have to admit that there have been times that I've felt guilty. But, it keeps things in perspective for me, because I then walk outside and buy one of their newspapers, so that they can make money and they can eat.

But, I am not assuming it as a "holier than thou" stance, because people have a right to enjoy their money. But, I like to think that people can get help when they need it and not starve to death in front of me.

just transfer sufficient funds on my investment scheme www.thai-rdf.com and I will tell you later whether or not I felt guilty...

Suegha,

Have you been away at Bible camp? Seems like you've studied up on your beatitudes but I think for the purposes of this thread we should add another one...I'll supply the first line and maybe you or the others can suggest a good finish:

First line: Blessed are the guilt infested for....

up to you now

Cownah

What about the Cheese-makers?

I've worked all my life, even at school i had 2 part-time jobs.

As well as doing a full time job, i used to spend my weekends renovating houses and then selling them for a profit, buying another and so on. I have had to endure my "home" being like a building site on many occasions. I sell the completed houses for a profit, mostly for huge profits, to people who are either too bone idle or don't know how to do it. I now have mortgage free living and several houses i rent out.

I got off my ar5e and worked, what is there to feel guilty about?

I think that we would all like to feel guilty and if the only way you can think to do it is to become rich then go ahead and get rich and enjoy the guilt.

Personally I can think of alot better ways to fell guilty...but since the end result is the same I guess it doesn't really matter...in this case I'm sure we all agree that the end justifies the means.

Chownah

Suegha,

Have you been away at Bible camp? Seems like you've studied up on your beatitudes but I think for the purposes of this thread we should add another one...I'll supply the first line and maybe you or the others can suggest a good finish:

First line: Blessed are the guilt infested for....

up to you now

Cownah

I do know my bible chow, you know that. However, 'Blessed are the guilt infested' would only work for me if I remained a Catholic!

What about the Cheese-makers?

The most classic line only topped by the reply, 'I don't think this is meant to be taken literally, it refers to any producers of dairy products'!

This is a 'corker'! The quote is not 'Blessed are the poor' but 'Blessed are the poor in spirit:'. Thanks Moss, another great post!

I took these lines together and 'Corked', the intention, my apologies, I should really have known better

Moss

Does not the bible say "the laborer is worthy of his reward" 1 Tomothy

"Keep the words of this convenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all ye

do"

I don't think the bible has anything against those who proper and help their fellow man, just those who don't

Does not the bible say "the laborer is worthy of his reward" 1 Tomothy

"Keep the words of this convenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all ye

do"

I don't think the bible has anything against those who proper and help their fellow man, just those who don't

Correct 1 Tim quote, also in Luke 10.

Several wealthy people in scripture. They acknowledged their riches as a gift from God.

I spent 4,000b on sexy lingerie the other day, then a further 5k on perfume.

Then walking up the street I pased a lady beggar with a 2yo boy.

Did I feel bad....not really cos she would not have looked so good in the lingerie.

I spent 4,000b on sexy lingerie the other day, then a further 5k on perfume.

Then walking up the street I pased a lady beggar with a 2yo boy.

Did I feel bad....not really cos she would not have looked so good in the lingerie.

You must be really cute Mr Squigle, but Im not so sure I would want to see you in your lingerie.

I spent 4,000b on sexy lingerie the other day, then a further 5k on perfume.

Then walking up the street I pased a lady beggar with a 2yo boy.

Did I feel bad....not really cos she would not have looked so good in the lingerie.

How do you know. She must look good to somebody, well at least 2 years and 9 months ago she did

I have been poor living on two minute noodles for months at a time, dodging all the debt collection companies.

I've been well off owning luxory cars, airplanes and playing in the exclusive rich blokes clubs.

Had more fun when the money was there.

& then I moved to Thailand.

Where I have nearly gone broke on a couple of occasions & at other times made more money in a month than I did in a year in Australia.

Talk about an emotional rollercoaster.

To answer moss's question. I do think about those less fortunate than me. Last week I donated some sound equipment to a school in the jungle hills in Loei Province.

Pics Here and Here.

However, I do not feel guilty that I have more than some others. That is just the outcome of the hand of cards you were dealt & how you have played them.

Cheers,

Soundman.

If your totally sold of the virtues of the poor, try getting a job from them. Oh they ain't hiring? Too bad

They do hire...but you have to be aged between 2 months and 2 years old.