Overstay: Flight booked but not enough money to pay fine.

[anon789561]

i think you should do as they say and go to CW but others may know otherwise. if i were in your shoes i'd do as my embassy advised

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, The Girl said:

1. I would like to know if it is necessary to visit this IBD? Is it advisable to make contact with the IO regarding my departure at the airport when I leave (of course I have to arrive very early)? Should an overstayer be roaming comfortably around such offices? 

2. Do I need an arrival stamp on my ETD before departure? 

Very bad advice from the embassy. If you did that you would certainly end up at the immigration detention center.

1. It can be done at the airport. Show your ETD to the airline at check in.

When you get to immigration you will be taken to an office. They will check their records to find your last entry to the country then do a stamp showing your last entry/admitted until date. Do a stamp for overstay and the one year banning and stamp you out of the country on the ETD after you pay the 20k baht fine.

You will need a copy of the police report for your lost/stolen passport. Having copies of your old passport would help also.

2. Answered in 1.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Happy enough said:

i think you should do as they say and go to CW but others may know otherwise. if i were in your shoes i'd do as my embassy advised

Doing that would end up with her being in the immigration detention center. More than one person have been given that bad advice by their embassy and ended up in the IDC.

[anon789561]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Doing that would end up with her being in the immigration detention center. More than one person have been given that bad advice by their embassy and ended up in the IDC.

yep, saw your last post. she knows what she has to do then. so much for embassy assistance 555

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Very bad advice from the embassy. If you did that you would certainly end up at the immigration detention center.

1. It can be done at the airport. Show your ETD to the airline at check in.

When you get to immigration you will be taken to an office. They will check their records to find your last entry to the country then do a stamp showing your last entry/admitted until date. Do a stamp for overstay and the one year banning and stamp you out of the country on the ETD after you pay the 20k baht fine.

You will need a copy of the police report for your lost/stolen passport. Having copies of your old passport would help also.

2. Answered in 1.

God Bless Ubonjoe, the one and the only!

[visarunner]

I did not read all comments, but some airline do not take deportees.

You ask to be arrested , send to court, sentenced to pay fine THB3k and expect to board the plane you booked weeks ahead.

I think that is a No Go.

 

[visarunner]

from our experience just take police report, passport and certification letter to airport, pay the fine THB20k.

You will be blacklisted. No worries about TM6 card, they will issue a new one.

Allow enough time for the process.

 

[ChouDoufu]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Very bad advice from the embassy. If you did that you would certainly end up at the immigration detention center.

 

 when they say "contact" does that necessarily mean a visit,

or would that be telephone contact?

 

is it really bad advice?  if this is a standard email for people

getting an ETD, maybe not so bad....couldn't they then apply

for an "emergency" 7-day visa to leave the country?

 

could have been sent assuming it was actually an "emergency",

and not known about the 7 months overstay.

 

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

when they say "contact" does that necessarily mean a visit,

or would that be telephone contact?

I am certain it means going to immigration. How would calling them help? It might result in more bad info.

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

s it really bad advice?  if this is a standard email for people

getting an ETD, maybe not so bad....couldn't they then apply

for an "emergency" 7-day visa to leave the country?

Bad advice IMO. They are aware of the situation since you applied for a new passport there but they at first told her 2 months to get and then 6 months.

There is no visa of any kind that could be applied for at immigration. An extension could not be applied for since she has no valid permit to stay to extend. If she was not on a long overstay they might let her apply for an extension, pay 1900 baht and be given 7 days to leave the country after the application is denied.

4 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

could have been sent assuming it was actually an "emergency",

and not known about the 7 months overstay.

 

No Not likely since she applied for new passport about 6 months ago.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, visarunner said:

I did not read all comments, but some airline do not take deportees.

You ask to be arrested , send to court, sentenced to pay fine THB3k and expect to board the plane you booked weeks ahead.

I think that is a No Go.

 

At least read up a bit before commenting. It is not a matter anymore of deportees, arrest, court.

[Aditi Sharma]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

At least read up a bit before commenting. It is not a matter anymore of deportees, arrest, court.

visarunner, it is good to know that some airlines do not take deportees but cant they be compelled to do so by immigration if the deportee has purchased a ticket with them? If the immigration lets The Girl leave BKK after paying the overstay fine of 20k I dont think she is being deported by Kenya Airways. Alternatively, Kenya Airways cant say we wont have her because her case sucks. 

I dont think I understand what is deportation now. If the Girl fails to pay 20k and is taken to IDC will she be brought in time for the Kenya Airways flight to NBO? Or will she be kept there until she can put up another 10k considering she had paid 10k? 

[Aditi Sharma]

[hawker9000]

Girl:  you're getting a lot of noise here.  I strongly recommend you listen to ubonjoe on this embassy question.

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

... it is good to know that some airlines do not take deportees but cant they be compelled to do so by immigration if the deportee has purchased a ticket with them?

The only time that immigration can compel an airline to transport a passenger is if the airline ignored an APIS feedback code to deny boarding.  The airline would then be compelled to return the passenger to their point of departure.

 

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

If the immigration lets The Girl leave BKK after paying the overstay fine of 20k I dont think she is being deported by Kenya Airways.

Correct in assuming that if the OP pays the fine she is not being deported and therefore the airline would have no reason to refuse to board her.

 

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Alternatively, Kenya Airways cant say we wont have her because her case sucks. 

Carriage of any passenger is solely at the discretion of the airline.  They can refuse to transport anyone even if they have a valid ticket to travel.

 

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I dont think I understand what is deportation now.

Deportation is the expulsion of a person, or group of people, from a place, or country.

 

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

If the Girl fails to pay 20k and is taken to IDC will she be brought in time for the Kenya Airways flight to NBO? Or will she be kept there until she can put up another 10k considering she had paid 10k? 

If the OP fails to pay the fine the likelihood is that she will initially be held in the IDC at the airport and given the opportunity to obtain the necessary funds to pay the fine.  If she is unable to obtain the funds she will then be transferred to immigrations main detention centre in Bangkok.  Obviously she would miss her flight and the airline will automatically cancel her ticket (as a no show).  She will then not only have to find the funds to pay her fine, but will also have to find the money to purchase a new ticket back to SA.

[Aditi Sharma]

The Girl, please dont show up without the 20k baht. If you have to do a no-show and lose the flight money so be it. Borrow enough to pay the fine and the cost of flight. God Bless. 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

it is good to know that some airlines do not take deportees but cant they be compelled to do so by immigration

No. Under international law, only the national airline of the country where the deportee has residence can be forced to carry someone being deported.

[Mattd]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

No. Under international law, only the national airline of the country where the deportee has residence can be forced to carry someone being deported.

Where is this actually written?

 

Under ICAO regulations, then it is perfectly possible for an airline other than the National airline to fly a deportee, annex 9 clearly states that the carrying airline will not be penalised should the deportee be refused entry in to the destination or transit state.

Granted it would be best practice to deport somebody on an airline that is flying directly to the destination country, which in this case, is not possible.

 

Interestingly, it does also state the following:

 

States should adopt as best practice the following ICAO Annex 9 standard 10, which reads:

”Contracting States removing deportees from their territories shall assume all obligations, responsibilities and costs associated with the removal.”

 

Which technically means, if Thailand chooses to deport a person, then Thailand is liable, as a member (contracting State) of the UN!

[Aditi Sharma]

32 minutes ago, Mattd said:

Which technically means, if Thailand chooses to deport a person, then Thailand is liable, as a member (contracting State) of the UN!

It would be naive on The Girl's part to assume that they will pay. Assuming she has 20k baht, she will have to make sure their procedure does not take too long or else she would miss the Kenya Airways flight departing 00.35 hrs. It would not be the responsibility of the immigration department to ensure that she does not miss the flight because of the time taken by their process. I am sure they will be run off their feat by her overstay status. I remember only once my flight was delayed by two passengers who had already checked in at the airport but not boarded and the airline said they were obliged to wait for them. 

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, Aditi Sharma said:

It would be naive on The Girl's part to assume that they will pay. Assuming she has 20k baht, she will have to make sure their procedure does not take too long or else she would miss the Kenya Airways flight departing 00.35 hrs. It would not be the responsibility of the immigration department to ensure that she does not miss the flight because of the time taken by their process. I am sure they will be run off their feat by her overstay status. I remember only once my flight was delayed by two passengers who had already checked in at the airport but not boarded and the airline said they were obliged to wait for them. 

I totally agree in the OP's case, as she is not being deported in the true sense of the word, my point was more leaned towards those who are arrested and then deported, the advisory from ICAO does also state that States should adopt, rather than must, so it is a grey area.

Most Countries that are deporting somebody do arrange it, as they want the person gone, the UK for example, even goes to the length of chartering aircraft to send illegals back to where they come from, in the end, it is cheaper than keeping them in detention for an extended period. 

 

Regarding airlines being obliged to wait for late passengers, that is not correct at all, most airlines will attempt to locate the missing passenger(s) for a certain period of time after the scheduled departure, then if the passenger(s) have checked baggage in the hold, this will be located and removed, once that decision has been made by the Captain, then the passenger(s) will be refused boarding, I've been on several flights where this has happened.

This kind of thing costs airlines a lot of cash, miss a slot time at Heathrow for example and the plane could be delayed hours, waiting for a new slot time that not only gets them out of LHR, but also slots them all the way to their destination.

[Aditi Sharma]

I have a few questions:

 

1) Will Kenya Airways allow her to check in? Check her bags as well. Since her flight is at 00.35 hrs what time should she ideally do it?

 

2) At the security check, they ask to see the passport, will they create any hassle when she shows them her ETD?

 

3) At the immigration check where she shows all her documents, should she give the 20k baht over the counter and collect the receipt and pass to boarding?

 

4) She can board the flight? 

 

5) Follow this process at the NBO as well? Is there a possiblity that they will detain her in Kenya because of not having 'valid' travel documents? What happens then? Will she be asked to pay a fine there as well? 

 

Thanks.

Edited September 28, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
correction

[Mattd]

1. I do not see why not and as early as she possibly can, basically as soon as Kenyan open check in.

2. There should be no problem at check in or at security checks, they will have seen ETD's before.

3. She will go to the immigration desk and will then be escorted to the overstay desk, where they will process her.

4. Once through immigration, then why not.

5. She will be in transit at NBO, so again, this should not be an issue.

[Moonmoon]

Hi The Girl, as an previous overstayer myself of an even longer period than you and of in an even sticker situation than you. 

 

It is very simple if you want the least hassle.

 

The answer has aldy been answered many times in this thread and unless you have new issues or questions, there is only 1 best way out.

 

20k baht, air tix out, etd straight to the airport. Tm6 fill in new at airport. No need to contact immigration b4 that. N i hope u dont get check or stop by police or immigration b4 this becos its straight to detention for u if u r caught b4 going to airport. 

 

Stay low profile n especially of the streets of sukhumvit where they like to conduct random  checks on foreigners.

 

Familiar yourself with your surroundings n the best way around without meeting police. Wishing n praying for your safe departure

 

[Aditi Sharma]

1 hour ago, Moonmoon said:

N i hope u dont get check or stop by police or immigration b4 this becos its straight to detention for u if u r caught b4 going to airport. 

 

Stay low profile n especially of the streets of sukhumvit where they like to conduct random  checks on foreigners.

 

Familiar yourself with your surroundings n the best way around without meeting police. Wishing n praying for your safe departure

 

I wish to know if The Girl is a criminal or a fugitive in the eyes of the law. Moonmoon are you seriously suggesting that if she is stopped by the police or the immigration on the way the airport, they would not listen to the fact that she was on the way out of the country through the right channel by paying the overstay fine and agreeing to the ban? 

[gilo]

2 hours ago, Moonmoon said:

Hi The Girl, as an previous overstayer myself of an even longer period than you and of in an even sticker situation than you. 

 

It is very simple if you want the least hassle.

 

The answer has aldy been answered many times in this thread and unless you have new issues or questions, there is only 1 best way out.

 

20k baht, air tix out, etd straight to the airport. Tm6 fill in new at airport. No need to contact immigration b4 that. N i hope u dont get check or stop by police or immigration b4 this becos its straight to detention for u if u r caught b4 going to airport. 

 

Stay low profile n especially of the streets of sukhumvit where they like to conduct random  checks on foreigners.

 

Familiar yourself with your surroundings n the best way around without meeting police. Wishing n praying for your safe departure

 

I agree with these points. However don't get too scared about random checks as they are more common on routes to land borders rather than in Bangkok. Although they can have occasional spikes in such searches in Bangkok, both during my 11 year overstay nor since have I ever been subjected to see my passport. And I was never restricted in the places where I spent time, bars, restaurants clubs etc. So while you should be mindful and keep a low profile I suspect that you have enough worries without any additional ones that are quite slight. 

[Aditi Sharma]

I am from India. Will I have to pay 20k baht in fine even for a single day of overstaying in Thailand? 

[anto]

3 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I am from India. Will I have to pay 20k baht in fine even for a single day of overstaying in Thailand? 

Its B500 per day ,up to a maximum fine of B20,000 .Same for all Nationalities as far as i know .

To the OP .Another way to raise funds is by selling some of your possessions on a Facebook group .

[welovesundaysatspace]

The girl: Just brainstorming here:

 

Where I come from, there are quite some Fintech startups these days offering small loans online. So I did a quick Google search on "easy loan online South Africa" and several results popped up. You may wanna check if that would be an option to raise funds (either applying yourself or letting your parents or friends back home do it).

Please note though that I obviously don't know whether those sites are legit or not. As with everything online, do your due diligence. 

 

Also, did you ask your embassy for a loan? I know some embassies do that in exceptional emergency cases. 

 

And should leaving to Cambodia or Laos still be an option, did you try explaining your situation to Kenya Airways and ask for a full refund? Don't think they would care (everyone could make up a story like that after all), but why not try at least? 

 

Good luck. 

Edited September 28, 2017 by welovesundaysatspace

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The girl: Just brainstorming here:

...

And should leaving to Cambodia or Laos still be an option, did you try explaining your situation to Kenya Airways and ask for a full refund? Don't think they would care (everyone could make up a story like that after all), but why not try at least? 

 

Good luck. 

I think consensus was that her ETD will not allow for going anywhere but "home" - so even if she could refund the ticket, it's a no-go.  She'd have to wait here months for her 'real' passport to finally be delivered by her embassy - the whole time on overstay.

[Mattd]

8 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And should leaving to Cambodia or Laos still be an option

Plus so far she hasn't raised enough money to even pay her overstay fine here, let alone survive anywhere but her home country.

[Aditi Sharma]

1. What are her options if she is not able to raise another 10k baht assuming she has not used any of the 10k baht she already had couple of days back?

2 How long is her friend willing to support her? What will The Girl do when her friend is no longer able to support her? Why has her friend not been able to raise 10k for her. If she is a Thai, is it possible for her to use local resources somehow which are offlimits for expats? No such thing?

3. Is the airline obliged to inform the immigration or her consulate in case of a no-show?

4. Can The Girl call and speak to her church and ask for help?

 

 

If worst comes to worst, I guess she will just wait for money to come through, I think.