What constitutes a bank?

[Maestro]

On 05/10/2017 at 4:01 PM, saakura said:

Absolutely and utterly disgusting behaviour of the immigration officer. A cooperative is far more likely to give out loans to farmers and small local businesses, which fulfills the primary aim of the rule requiring you to keep a deposit which helps the country's economy. 

1

 

That rule you mention, the rule that immigration's requirement for evidence of a deposit of a certain minimum amount of money in a bank for some types of extension of stay has as its primary aim "to keep a deposit which helps the country's economy", is not yet in our collection of Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc and I should be grateful if you would kindly post a link to it so that I may add it to the list.

[Maestro]

On 06/10/2017 at 5:25 AM, Aditi Sharma said:

...Have the immigration firmly ruled before that  co-operatives were not banks? In the OP's case they have thereby setting a precedent.

3

 

As of now, it appears to be a precedent for the Buriram immigration office, where the OP applied for his extension, not for the Immigration Bureau as a whole. I can't remember any post regarding another immigration office mentioning that a deposit in a cooperative was offered as evidence to meet the financial requirement for an extension and the office's decision on that. A call by the OP to the immigration hotline 1178 might have given clarification but for all I know, he might have been told that it is up to the individual immigration office.

 

Generally speaking, not all immigration offices handle the rule about money in the bank the same way. For example, some do not accept bank savings accounts in foreign currency, and some took a bit of convincing until they accepted fixed time deposit accounts.

[sinbin]

If every time I accepted the sh1t immigration threw at me I'd basically be there permanently. In the 12 years I've been here I've lost count of the times I've been refused an extension because my monies were in a 'Fixed term' account. Not just a Coop account. And after standing up to them they've backeddown each time they've questioned it. At one time I got refused because my monies was in two separate accounts. Half in a fixed term, half in an ordinary account. The Officer at that time accused my wife of trying to make him look stupid. It was me applying not my wife. He threw the books on the desk and walked out. The senior lady office at the time Kap Choeng picked them up and gave me my extension. Now who's in the right?

Just because an officer says something doesn't make him/her correct.

[Aditi Sharma]

2 hours ago, sinbin said:

The Officer at that time accused my wife of trying to make him look stupid. It was me applying not my wife. He threw the books on the desk and walked out. The senior lady office at the time Kap Choeng picked them up and gave me my extension. Now who's in the right?

Just because an officer says something doesn't make him/her correct.

Other than cultivating them, I dont see they have any scope for job satisfaction. You see what I mean? Carry some sweets, flowers, prod them to do a good job for ya.

 

[sinbin]

47 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

Other than cultivating them, I dont see they have any scope for job satisfaction. You see what I mean? Carry some sweets, flowers, prod them to do a good job for ya.

 

When I used to use either Korat or Kap Choeng in the past I used to feel like throwing up as I watched farangs place a bag of goodies on the floor next to them and slowly slide it with their foot to the officers side of the desk. 

I really can't see any of them having job satisfaction unless they're posted to the likes of Pattaya where the tea money must roll in. Kap Choeng must be, IMO, a punishment posting. I went to KC once on a Friday, arriving just after 11am. I was told I was lucky to arrive before they all went home at 12. I said 'you work a full day on a Friday, don't you?' 'Yes but we all want to go home so we're closing early.' Just about shows their attitude.

[sinbin]

I tried to contact Immigration Hot-Line 1111 today to get their take on this matter. Typical, 'this number is not in service'.

[Aditi Sharma]

I fear that one is being sucked in by the bureaucracy. The LOS was never meant to be about it. Not to put too fine a point on it, where did you farangs go wrong?

[Aditi Sharma]

40 minutes ago, sinbin said:

I tried to contact Immigration Hot-Line 1111 today to get their take on this matter. Typical, 'this number is not in service'.

That sucks. I never use the phone for talking errr to bureaucracy.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, sinbin said:

I tried to contact Immigration Hot-Line 1111 today to get their take on this matter. Typical, 'this number is not in service'.

See a few posts above yours, 1178 would have to be called, not 1111.

[stevenl]

I must say though I don't understand you.

 

In the past you had issues with a fixed deposit at real banks getting recognised by immigration. So you decide to open a fixed deposit with a cooperative. Not a smart move IMO, and asking for problems.

[Aditi Sharma]

 

1178 is for the Immigration Bureau at Don Mueang international Airport;
I think he was calling the right number which is for complaints.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Aditi Sharma]

21 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I must say though I don't understand you.

 

In the past you had issues with a fixed deposit at real banks getting recognised by immigration. So you decide to open a fixed deposit with a cooperative. Not a smart move IMO, and asking for problems.

IMNSHO the immigration ought not to have a say on where he invests his money. 

[sinbin]

46 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I must say though I don't understand you.

 

In the past you had issues with a fixed deposit at real banks getting recognised by immigration. So you decide to open a fixed deposit with a cooperative. Not a smart move IMO, and asking for problems.

I HAD issues before but overcame them once they allowed 'fixed term' accounts. On top of that I asked before I took out an account with the Cooperative and I was assured it was acceptable. So much so that they gave me my extension based on the letter from the Coop. So they <deleted> up or maybe they didn't? Time will tell.

[007 RED]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I fear that one is being sucked in by the bureaucracy. The LOS was never meant to be about it. Not to put too fine a point on it, where did you farangs go wrong?

In the eyes of Thais, all foreigners are Farangs.... so where did you go wrong? 

[sinbin]

32 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

IMNSHO the immigration ought not to have a say on where he invests his money. 

Because the Cooperative cannot do international transactions (banking) I still had to use a commercial bank to bring my money into the country 

 

2 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

In the eyes of Thais, all foreigners are Farangs.... 

That is not true. Japanese are Yipoon and blacks are Negro

[sinbin]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

See a few posts above yours, 1178 would have to be called, not 1111.

You call 1178. God knows who they are?  

 

Quote

Bangkok, 20 March, 2015 – The Royal Thai Government has launched a new 1111 hotline to receive complaints from foreigners in Thailand, in addition to the existing 1155 Tourist Police Call Centre.

http://www.tatnews.org/thai-government-launches-1111-hotline-receive-complaints-from-foreigners/

[Jip99]

11 minutes ago, sinbin said:

 

 

That is not true. Japanese are Yipoon and blacks are Negro

 

 

My part art of Isaan I hear “Nippon “ and “Chocolate Men”

 

I stand corrected... missus just said Yipoon...

Edited October 9, 2017 by Jip99

[sinbin]

25 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

I stand corrected... missus just said Yipoon...

No worries. We all make mistakes. Including Immigration officers. But they don't apologise.  

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

IMNSHO the immigration ought not to have a say on where he invests his money. 

You don't seem to understand the purpose of the 800K (money in the bank). It is accepted in lieu of proving income or a top up to an income shortfall. The money in the bank is supposed to be the money you live on for the 1 year or your temporary permit to stay. It should be in a bank account that allows immediate access to partial or full withdrawal. Immigration have no interest in where the foreigner invests monies they are investing. 

Edited October 9, 2017 by elviajero

[sinbin]

42 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The money in the bank is supposed to be the money you live on for the 1 year or your temporary permit to stay.

It doesn't say that exactly in the rules.

 

So why does a single man have to show double to a married man that may have many children? I think the married man should show 800,000 and the single guy only 400,000. Fairs fair.

And why doesn't a farang lady, married to a Thai man, have to show any income at all? The reason I ask this is cus the farang lady that lives near me works and her Thai hubby doesn't support her. A little hypocritical is immigration in my book.

Edited October 9, 2017 by sinbin

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, sinbin said:

It doesn't say that exactly in the rules.

Do they really need to spell it out. If in doubt I suggest you talk to immigration.

 

6 minutes ago, sinbin said:

So why does a single man have to show double to a married man that may have many children? I think the married man should show 800,000 and the single guy only 400,000. Fairs fair.

It's nothing to do with being fair. The two types of extension are not related so why should the financial requirements be. A married man has a reason to be in the country.  Part of the reason they pitch the 'retiree' amount at 800K is simply to help limit the numbers. I spent far more when I was single than I do as a married man with two kids!

 

12 minutes ago, sinbin said:

And why doesn't a farang lady, married to a Thai man, have to show any income at all? The reason I ask this is cus the farang lady that lives near me works and her Thai hubby doesn't support her. A little hypocritical is immigration in my book.

Probably because Thailand, as a society, believes that husbands take care of their wives financially.

 

[sinbin]

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Do they really need to spell it out. If in doubt I suggest you talk to immigration.

 

I tried to do that today but their 1111 number isn't talking to anyone.

 

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

A married man has a reason to be in the country.

But would they let him stay if he didn't have any money? Would they take into consideration his Children?

 

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I spent far more when I was single than I do as a married man with two kids!

I'm opposite. Private education ain't cheap . I have 3 kids.

 

8 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Probably because Thailand, as a society, believes that husbands take care of their wives financially.

 

You're taking the Michael. I'm sure you don't even believe that?

Edited October 9, 2017 by sinbin

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, sinbin said:

But would they let him stay if he didn't have any money? Would they take into consideration his Children?

They clearly think that 40K pm or 400K is enough to live on with or without children. Most Thai families live on far less than that. Private education isn't compulsory. 

 

9 minutes ago, sinbin said:

You're taking the Michael. I'm sure you don't even believe that?

I do unless someone convinces me of a better reason.

[Just Weird]

On 10/8/2017 at 7:27 PM, Aditi Sharma said:

They should have done it before the OP came to the window. 

 

I did not mean contradiction, I meant contraindication meaning express statement of what is not. 

 

I think I get what you have said and I agree with you. It's alright if you dont get my point. You have asked me to stop, I will. Cheers.

"They should have done it before the OP came to the window."

They did, when the requirements were first established decades ago. 

 

"I did not mean contradiction, I meant contraindication meaning express statement of what is not"

That's not what contraindication means in English.

[Drago]

 In this case it's defined as a financial institution which provides current, deposit or investment accounts to private individuals and is regulated by the appropriate regulatory body which in this case is BOT.

Edited October 9, 2017 by Drago
addendum

[Maestro]

10 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

 

1178 is for the Immigration Bureau at Don Mueang international Airport;
I think he was calling the right number which is for complaints.

 

From the website of the Immigration Bureau, www.immigration.go.th

 

Quote

 

Immigration Bureau

Call Center: 1178
Address: Immigration Bureau 507 Soi Suan Plu Sathorn Bangkok 10120
Tel.: 0-2287-3101 to 10
Fax: 0-2287-1516, 0-2287-1310

 

 

 

I understand that 1111 is the helpline for the government as a whole and acts as a switchboard to connect me to the appropriate government department for my type of enquiry.  Therefore, there is no harm in calling 1111 for an immigration-related enquiry but if I call 1178 directly I have to explain my question only once.

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, sinbin said:

You call 1178. God knows who they are? 

Immigration helpline.

[sinbin]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Immigration helpline.

This 1178 does not pick up the phone. Been trying all morning. After a couple of minutes of ringing it cuts you off. 

 

7 hours ago, Maestro said:

1111 is the helpline for the government

A machine will tell you 'this number is not in service.'

Edited October 10, 2017 by sinbin

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, sinbin said:

This 1178 does not pick up the phone. Been trying all morning. After a couple of minutes of ringing it cuts you off. 

 

A machine will tell you 'this number is not in service.'

 

Well, at least you know you were calling the right numbers for "customer service" from the Thai government!

[Aditi Sharma]

12 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Well, at least you know you were calling the right numbers for "customer service" from the Thai government!

 

Sinbin for all you know they might answer the call in chaste Thai and you might not feel like complaining. I honestly think Thai culture and complaining dont go well together. I think one can do all one's complaining here. Yeah, for whatever it is worth :-) 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
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