7 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Sorry this is an old post but...

 

I believe the 150 Has a Nikasil plated cylinder so by boring one will have removed the Nikasil. It sounds like it works without it but....

I just bought a oversized cylinder and had it ported..... 

26 minutes ago, Tioga246 said:

I just bought a oversized cylinder and had it ported..... 

Yep. Both my cylinders on my 300 are "optimised". The key is who does it?

On 9/2/2019 at 9:07 AM, johng said:

Notice they say 5 clutch discs but the picture has 6 !!   ??????

Well  silly me  there are 6 plates all together 5 of one part number and 1 of another part number

 

6 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

I believe the 150 Has a Nikasil plated cylinder

I read that too  but the bore was scored so no other option..I don't think there is anyone offering "Nikasil" plating...but did hear about some "old school" tuners chrome plating the bore ???

... obviously I'm not going to push this bike hard,it gets scary above 120 KPH,what with the (other) lunatic drivers,bad road layouts and surface  and the fact the bike just seems to have endless problems...I'll only use it for short local (slowish speed) trips.

 

PS:

the coolant still disappears even though all visible leaks have stopped and the oil is still oil..so I suppose

the coolant is leaking into the combustion chamber  more work to do ????

4 hours ago, johng said:

and the fact the bike just seems to have endless problems..

You need to find a good local shop who will go through the whole bike. Every market town and city has a shop that is competent and knowledgable with these older 2 strokes.

Completely rebuild the motor, gearbox and clutch. Put a brand new carb on. Rewire the whole bike or fit a new harness c/w rewound stator and new coil and cdi.

Parts and labour depending on .... i'd say 4-6k.

Be like a new bike and enjoyable again.

Good luck!

13 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

You need to find a good local shop who will go through the whole bike. Every market town and city has a shop that is competent and knowledgable with these older 2 strokes.

Completely rebuild the motor, gearbox and clutch. Put a brand new carb on. Rewire the whole bike or fit a new harness c/w rewound stator and new coil and cdi.

Parts and labour depending on .... i'd say 4-6k.

Be like a new bike and enjoyable again.

Good luck!

Try find another cylinder and see if the coolant stays.... I messed around for ages trying to get my bike right.... Facebook pages have them for sale... 800baht I think I got mine for, but also had it ported... 

On 9/4/2019 at 8:10 PM, thaiguzzi said:

You need to find a good local shop who will go through the whole bike. Every market town and city has a shop that is competent and knowledgable with these older 2 strokes.

Completely rebuild the motor, gearbox and clutch. Put a brand new carb on. Rewire the whole bike or fit a new harness c/w rewound stator and new coil and cdi.

Parts and labour depending on .... i'd say 4-6k.

Be like a new bike and enjoyable again.

Good luck!

 

I think your ballpark cost is rather optimistic.

 

I recently did a top end rebuild on an NSR SP using all genuine parts and the parts bill was a little under 15K.

 

Cylinder = 10,000 (unavailable new from Honda but specialists have a few for SP)

Piston rings = 574

Piston = 1494 (only one size available)

Cylinder head = 895 

Exhaust gasket = 724 (yes really, same as NSR250)

Piston pin = 214

Small end bearing = 128

Head gasket = 95

Spark plug = 87

 

I didn't keep a record of the price of other small parts used such as circlips, base gasket, coolant, cylinder studs and some other things.  I bought all the parts myself and Honda prices have since undergone an annual revision.

 

A genuine carb for an NSR SP is about 3K.  I think a CDI is about 5K.  Wiring loom also about 2.5-3K.  NSR parts are surprisingly expensive and most are made in Japan.

 

I think the only cylinders available new are for the SP but if it could be retro fitted to this bike you would need the matching CDI which controls power valve as well as spark.  I have been looking for NSR parts for about two and a half years and I have not seen anything other than the SP cylinder offered.

On 9/5/2019 at 9:46 AM, Tioga246 said:

Try find another cylinder and see if the coolant stays.... I messed around for ages trying to get my bike right.... Facebook pages have them for sale... 800baht I think I got mine for, but also had it ported... 

Hey guys... Nsr manual say each fork takes about 300ml of oil each.... Now why does the Thai mechanic say 100ml is good... I would prefer my forks to be harder so I can drop them more.... If they to hard, that could be dangerous on the road I can understand that, but the manual say 300ml.... I actually think its 330ml.... Can anyone help with this please.... 

On my SP I use 322ml per fork leg as per the SP manual.  That is a fork oil level of about 125mm measured with the fork springs removed and forks fully compressed.

 

The SP manual does not tell you the fork oil spec which is annoying.  I am using Motul 10W fork oil which you can get from Lazada.  I settled on 10W by trial and error.

 

My local bike shop uses hydraulic fluid intended for backhoes and the like of unknown weight as his one size fits all fork oil.  Not sure about the wisdom of that.  

 

SP fork tubes are 35mm od.  I think earlier model NSRs use smaller diameter fork tubes which would probably require a different/lesser volume of fluid but I cannot verify what I am saying about fork tube diameter as I haven't seen another NSR around here.  

2 hours ago, In the jungle said:

On my SP I use 322ml per fork leg as per the SP manual.  That is a fork oil level of about 125mm measured with the fork springs removed and forks fully compressed.

 

The SP manual does not tell you the fork oil spec which is annoying.  I am using Motul 10W fork oil which you can get from Lazada.  I settled on 10W by trial and error.

 

My local bike shop uses hydraulic fluid intended for backhoes and the like of unknown weight as his one size fits all fork oil.  Not sure about the wisdom of that.  

 

SP fork tubes are 35mm od.  I think earlier model NSRs use smaller diameter fork tubes which would probably require a different/lesser volume of fluid but I cannot verify what I am saying about fork tube diameter as I haven't seen another NSR around here.  

Thanks man... Can't measure fork at the moment... I was at the back working on my bike and was bitten by a Malay pit viper... So in hospital and waiting on my second blood test.... 

I was at the back working on my bike and was bitten by a Malay pit viper... So in hospital and waiting on my second blood test.... 

Blimey ! I thought I was unlucky ,best wishes to you .

I'll measure my fork diameters tomorrow and post here.

37 minutes ago, johng said:

 

 

Blimey ! I thought I was unlucky ,best wishes to you .

I'll measure my fork diameters tomorrow and post here.

 

Thanks Johng

Can you believe, I saved a viper in the morning from cats.... Or maybe I saved the cats.... Anyway I never killed this thing... Removed it safely and still got bitten by its sister later on.... 

13 hours ago, Tioga246 said:

I saved a viper in the morning from cats..

Strangely I was watching  an episode of "Elementary" last night and  it referred to  a fable about snakes

 

Quote

The story concerns a farmer who finds a viper freezing in the snow. Taking pity on it, he picks it up and places it within his coat. The viper, revived by the warmth, bites his rescuer, who dies realizing that it is his own fault. The story is recorded in both Greek and Latin sources. In the former, the farmer dies reproaching himself "for pitying a scoundrel," while in the version by Phaedrus the snake says that he bit his benefactor "to teach the lesson not to expect a reward from the wicked." The latter sentiment is made the moral in Medieval versions of the fable. Odo of Cheriton's snake answers the farmer's demand for an explanation with a counter-question, "Did you not know that there is enmity and natural antipathy between your kind and mine? Did you not know that a serpent in the bosom, a mouse in a bag and fire in a barn give their hosts an ill reward?"^[2] In modern times the fable has been applied in the religious sphere to teach that if one participates in unrighteous activities one is not immune to harm

Anyway  the NSR forks are 31mm diameter    RR  and RRp  versions

 

RR

 

RRp

 

 

27 minutes ago, johng said:

Strangely I was watching  an episode of "Elementary" last night and  it referred to  a fable about snakes

 

Anyway  the NSR forks are 31mm diameter    RR  and RRp  versions

 

RR

 

RRp

 

 

Thanks for that story Johng

So maybe 200ml each fork will do... 

 

Because you don't know the standard volume of fluid per 31mm dia. leg I would throw in a guesstimated volume (200ml or whatever), measure the fork oil level for that and then go up or down on level based on how the forks perform.

 

On my back of an envelope calculation I reckon 240ml per leg would be nearer the mark as a start point.

 

One thing I am dead sure about is that 100ml per leg is wrong.  I doubt that volume would even keep the damper rod orifices continuously covered. 

 

 

8 hours ago, In the jungle said:

Because you don't know the standard volume of fluid per 31mm dia. leg I would throw in a guesstimated volume (200ml or whatever), measure the fork oil level for that and then go up or down on level based on how the forks perform.

 

On my back of an envelope calculation I reckon 240ml per leg would be nearer the mark as a start point.

 

One thing I am dead sure about is that 100ml per leg is wrong.  I doubt that volume would even keep the damper rod orifices continuously covered. 

 

 

Totally agree with you.... 100ml not enough.... And 200ml sounds good to me... I want to drop the forks anyway... And long as the dust seal don't get damage I'm happy... 

On 9/23/2019 at 10:08 AM, In the jungle said:

Because you don't know the standard volume of fluid per 31mm dia. leg I would throw in a guesstimated volume (200ml or whatever), measure the fork oil level for that and then go up or down on level based on how the forks perform.

 

On my back of an envelope calculation I reckon 240ml per leg would be nearer the mark as a start point.

 

One thing I am dead sure about is that 100ml per leg is wrong.  I doubt that volume would even keep the damper rod orifices continuously covered. 

 

 

Hey guys, any tips and images to share on how to reload the kick-start spring and where to locate it... 

Assemble all the bits first  

don't forget the 2 washers one or other likely gets stuck to the crankcase or cover when you disassemble

 

the ratchet will only go on the spline in one position, make sure the plastic guide slots over the spring and sits "nicely".

 

Once the spline is inserted into the crankcase hole  fit the retainer bracket...but first inspect it carefully to make sure it isn't cracked like mine was..if its damaged then it will let the spring rotate too far and break it (hard to find new ones)

 

One on the left is bad  the right hand is a good one

 

So with the retainer bracket fitted  rotate the kick starter spline clockwise till the ratchet hits the retainer bracket

the spring will be pointing towards the clutch..but it needs to be rotated  further clockwise and  inserted into the hole in the crankcase just above one of the "alignment bushes"   its a bit fiddly as you have to hold the spline and plastic guide in place with one hand and with some long nose pliers "persuade" the spring into the hole.

 

When fitting the clutch side cover  you have to  be careful to align  the water pump gears, when they align the cover goes on very easily..so don't be tempted to try forcing the cover closed.. with the cover as far on as it will go slowly rotate the water pump impeller buy hand and at the same time gently  "persuade" the cover further, when the gears line up it will "magically"  pop into place...the oil pump gear seems to just find its own way ..fit the oil pump first if you took it off, I don't think it could be assembled after the cover is back on anyway.

Also make sure you don't forget or loose any of the clutch actuating bits, the metal "top hat"  bit likes to fall out if you turn the cover over.

 

In this photo the larger plastic cog is the water pump gear   smaller one is for the oil pump  "top hat' thingy is in the centre.

 

PS   inspect the water pump gear for any signs of cracking..or this might happen.

 

One small tip I can add to the excellent illustrated description above is this.

 

Coat the clutch "top hat" in a thin film of grease so that it stays in place in the casing during assembly. 

23 hours ago, johng said:

Assemble all the bits first  

don't forget the 2 washers one or other likely gets stuck to the crankcase or cover when you disassemble

 

the ratchet will only go on the spline in one position, make sure the plastic guide slots over the spring and sits "nicely".

 

Once the spline is inserted into the crankcase hole  fit the retainer bracket...but first inspect it carefully to make sure it isn't cracked like mine was..if its damaged then it will let the spring rotate too far and break it (hard to find new ones)

 

One on the left is bad  the right hand is a good one

 

So with the retainer bracket fitted  rotate the kick starter spline clockwise till the ratchet hits the retainer bracket

the spring will be pointing towards the clutch..but it needs to be rotated  further clockwise and  inserted into the hole in the crankcase just above one of the "alignment bushes"   its a bit fiddly as you have to hold the spline and plastic guide in place with one hand and with some long nose pliers "persuade" the spring into the hole.

 

When fitting the clutch side cover  you have to  be careful to align  the water pump gears, when they align the cover goes on very easily..so don't be tempted to try forcing the cover closed.. with the cover as far on as it will go slowly rotate the water pump impeller buy hand and at the same time gently  "persuade" the cover further, when the gears line up it will "magically"  pop into place...the oil pump gear seems to just find its own way ..fit the oil pump first if you took it off, I don't think it could be assembled after the cover is back on anyway.

Also make sure you don't forget or loose any of the clutch actuating bits, the metal "top hat"  bit likes to fall out if you turn the cover over.

 

In this photo the larger plastic cog is the water pump gear   smaller one is for the oil pump  "top hat' thingy is in the centre.

 

PS   inspect the water pump gear for any signs of cracking..or this might happen.

 

Can you replace just the plastic gear or is it a complete unit.... 

What was I thinking with the spring haha... 

1 minute ago, Tioga246 said:

Can you replace just the plastic gear or is it a complete unit....

If you mean the water pump gear...then the NSR RR  uses a plastic gear that is moulded onto the spline/shaft so you have to replace the whole lot.. according to the NSR SP  workshop manual that version uses a removable gear..might even be metal ?

 

I found the pump gear on shopee

https://shopee.co.th/แกนใบพัดปั้มน้ำNSR-i.101321160.1767133960

 

there was a small problem though..it seems they threaded the shaft a bit too long so when the impeller is tightened it binds on the "mechanical water seal"..after lots of head scratching I devised a devious bodge..which was to insert a 5mm long piece of metal (roller) from a small roller bearing into the impeller threaded bore then by tedious trial and error grind down the length of the  roller till  the impeller locked down tight and was also pressing on the mechanical seal but not tight enough to bind...fingers crossed,touch wood etc  its been ok so far.

 

Here is another thing I learned..if the rev counter stops working..it could be a broken cable or it could be a broken water pump gear  as the water pump gear  drives the rev counter gear.

 

The water pump gear should be attached to the knurled part  and you can see the rev counter gear  meshing with the water pump drive shaft.

This is when forums are actually great.

A wealth of useful information and knowledge.

Good info there passed on by previous experience.

Well done JG.

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

This is when forums are actually great.

A wealth of useful information and knowledge.

Good info there passed on by previous experience.

Well done JG.

Agreed Guzzi... And thanks Johng...

My plastic gear just broke in half haha... It was cracked so no loss there... Now the headache of getting it off... Don't worry I will manage that... Spring located in the rite hole... Now tomorrow I go Krabi town and get the gear shaft... 

Now on the other side of engine we have the coils and there like a pick up sensor, it's either worn or been filed down or something.... 

9 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

This is when forums are actually great.

A wealth of useful information and knowledge.

Good info there passed on by previous experience.

Well done JG.

Agree!  This thread is a fascinating read.  I've been enjoying the updates as it took me back to the time when we could work on bikes with a diagnostic computer.

 

I've just bought a little classic bike myself and will be starting work next weekend after hoarding a range of spare parts that will probably not fit. ????

 

Don't want to divert this excellent thread - so will start my own.

16 hours ago, Tioga246 said:

Agreed Guzzi... And thanks Johng...

My plastic gear just broke in half haha... It was cracked so no loss there... Now the headache of getting it off... Don't worry I will manage that... Spring located in the rite hole... Now tomorrow I go Krabi town and get the gear shaft... 

Now on the other side of engine we have the coils and there like a pick up sensor, it's either worn or been filed down or something.... 

 

That ignition timing sensor is around 1000 Baht for a genuine one.  Provided it is giving a consistent spark and accurate ignition timing I would keep it.  You can check ignition timing and also ignition advance with a strobe light.  Advance is controlled by the spark box.

 

Also a concern is the insulation on the alternator stator.  Have you got bare wires on those windings?  Difficult to tell from the photo.

Yip the pics does look like there some wires exposed.... I will check in the morning, had no luck finding I new water pump gear in town... Managed to find I secondhand one on Facebook for 280baht.... Should get it by Wednesday... Now if the wires were exposed what could I do there.... 

The alternator is obviously working.

 

I would try covering any bare wires with a smear of epoxy from Homepro or wherever.  I haven't tried this before but I think it would work in your case.

 

 

 

 

The water pump gear.

 

On the NSR SP the design of the shaft and gear is different.  There must be a reason why they redesigned it and it wasn't to make it cheaper.  From memory the SP gear is still plastic.  Looking at your photographs I am pretty sure you could retrofit the SP parts.

 

Personally I never buy copy parts if the originals are available.

Local rewind shops are not expensive and do quality work.

10 hours ago, In the jungle said:

The alternator is obviously working.

 

I would try covering any bare wires with a smear of epoxy from Homepro or wherever.  I haven't tried this before but I think it would work in your case.

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jungle for pointing that out.... I looked this morning and there a few wires exposed and yes I got some epoxy here at home.... 

The water pump gear.
 
On the NSR SP the design of the shaft and gear is different.  There must be a reason why they redesigned it and it wasn't to make it cheaper.  From memory the SP gear is still plastic.  Looking at your photographs I am pretty sure you could retrofit the SP parts.
 
Personally I never buy copy parts if the originals are available.

As far as I can tell,having only seen the RR version for real and compared to the SP service manual diagram the only difference is that they changed the method of securing the plastic gear to the shaft..probably because the original moulded to the shaft method was/is more prone to breaking...the SP method with a circlip maybe allows some wiggling without causing stress on the gear...dont know why they didn't make all the gears out of metal in the first place.

So if you get/have a RR water pump shaft you can't just fit a SP gear to it...but as you say it may well be possible to change to the SP gear and shaft...if you can find one